Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Engine Oil--A slippery subject
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I wasn't referring to the radical flush as you describe; rather, the more basic kind you add to the oil before draining. The pump-flush you mention is great as part of a heavy-duty service along with an upper engine treatment (carbon cleaning).
Has anyone had experience with this product? Is it as good as it sounds? Is this a major breakthrough or just another after-market auto product that is very slippery, but not quite as much as the hucksters who sell it?
But if you have any more info, I'd like to examine it. thanks for posting, I wasn't trying to kill the messenger...:)
Better yet, I always wanted to start a company of all kinds of products called "The Leading Brand" - after all, that's who everyone compares to
Just kidding.
Did a science fair project on ARCO's moly oil, run in 3.5 hp Briggs and Stratton's. Results were inconclusive but I was just a pup and believed alot of what I read back then.
MolyDisulfide makes great assembly lube but as Mr_shiftright says their is supposed to be a hydrodynamic oil layer there anyway.
I recall one of my chemistry profs using MbS2 as an example of a a molecule with a high ionic bond strength (here Mb-S), and how this can be used to advantage. In this case, the MbS2 molecule is very small (three atoms across, obviously) and approximately hexagonal.
As a result, the outer-shell electrons on the MbS2 hydrogen-bond to iron atoms of the metal surface, and form and "interlocking grid" of these hexagonal molecules over the surface of the metal. Consequently, there is a layer of MbS2 on one metal surface rubbing against the MbS2 layer on the other surface. Unlike oil, where the oil stays on the surface through surface tension and viscosity alone, the MbS2 is hydrogen-bonded to the surface. This can still be removed, it just requires much more force to do so.
Sorry if I've used more chemistry terms than most people are familiar with, but it's pretty standard, high school level chemistry. So it should still be pretty accessible.
My (?) mark here, is more a matter of: are they able to keep any excess or "scrapped off" MbS2 suspended and flowing through the system? That is the problem with Teflon I believe. Is the level of anti-oxidant added adequate - as MbS2 on its own can be quite corrosive to steel. At least the EPA used a control!!! I'll give them that much.
Controls, I like controls...when I was comparing the benefits of synthetic oils to regular oil in my car, first i collected the stats with regular, then with synthetic, and then i switched back to regular oil. Seems that last "control" made me realize that with improved maintenance and attention to driving, I had 'improved' the results with synthetic and kept most of them when i switched back to regular oil! (correct tire pressure, more attentive driving, wheel alignment, etc.)...nonetheless, even after the "control", the synthetic did offer faster warmups and slightly better fuel mileage.....worth the extra $17.50 at oil change time? Probably...
Personally, I'm still prepared to drink any add to your oil additive (online videocam to record the results) that "substantially" improved fuel mileage, engine longevity, etc....
Much better than the explanation in the BW article, and your question regarding possible engine corrosion definitely needs an answer. But if Molybdenum Disulfide has been used in motocross engines and been in transmission fluids for awhile, there should be information on this aspect of it. Probably doesn't cause corrosion. It's a little hard to believe a chemist would recommend a corrosive agent to be put in an engine to stay in it for 15,000 miles before replacement.
Anyway, from what you explained, it's not a question of one oil being "slipperier" than another; its the metal-surface-protection processes that are different....hydrogen-bonded molecules rather than relying on surface tension and viscosity as is the case for conventional engine oil.
Frankly, this idea of looking for a better oil brings to mind the old question of "if it ain't broke why fix it? Conventional engine oil seems to me to be pretty good. My last pickup had 140,000 miles on it when I got rid of it. I never had to add oil between changes, and the engine's compression was good the last time I had checked it at about 130,000. But I only asked about the Molybdenum Disulfide because I hadn't heard of the stuff before.
As for the BMW engine tests, I can say that I have seen electrical parts that carry a rating like 300,000 hours mean time between failures (MTBF). Since the part itself usually has not been in production for 34 years, obviously they are predicting results, not measuring them.
I do run full synthetics in my race bikes though.....they spend most of their time WFO near redline and oil costs are pretty much insignificant.
RE: 'ion implantation'
I've never heard the term before. I honestly have no idea what it means.
You're quite right though, with respect to molybdenum being used in high pressure greases. I don't know if it's still around, or what my father used it for, but I remember a can of "moly-slip" he used to have.
With respect to the corrosiveness of molybdenum, it can indeed be compensated for by (still other) additives. It's just one of those things that makes me apprehensive.
The point about the 140,000 mile pickup is well taken though. That's why I e-mailed Mobil about a control group that used conventional oil. The person, who I know personally, with the highest mileage vehicle is a lady who has used nothing but Valvoline 10W30 in her (previous model) 4cyl. Mustang. The last time we spoke she had 220 ,000 miles on it.
Most new vehicles are 5W-30..........
The only exceptions I know of personally, are people like me who use synthetic in the winter for easier turning over. It is quite noticeably better. A couple people I know do use STP or 15w40, but they have bearing problems in older cars that they are trying to keep going "just a bit longer".
In North Bay, Timmins, etc. people use block heaters religiously and there's plug-ins at each parking spot at factories, apartments, etc.. That goes a LONG WAY to helping a car start-up when it's -20 or -40 deg.C
I currently own a turbodiesel, and my dad had an 88 Thunderbird Turbo for 5 years, so I'm very familiar with oil and blowers.
You are correct that a synthetic can withstand heat better, but remember, once the engine is shut off, the oil is no longer moving. It will burn that much faster as it sits still. The secret to not coking your oil in a turbo is to let it cool down before shutting off the engine. The flowing oil will dissipate the heat through the rest of the engine. Most big rigs have exhaust temperature gauges - this allows the driver to know when he/she can shut down. Your owner's manual will usually recommend anywhere from 45 seconds to 2 minutes of cool-down idle depending on how long you were just on the road and what kind of driving y9u did.
Even dinosaur juice will stay clean and clear if you keep your turbo's temp down before you turn it off. I stick with regular (natural) oil, and I don't even burn a quart between 5000 mile oil changes.
And most important, if you're in that awful 60s habit of revving the engine as you turn off the key (my dad claimed it was to make sure you had a full complement of voltage), break that habit NOW. Revving a turbo as you turn the key simply spins it back up to boost pressure, wasting the cooldown completely.
Obviously a four car sample does not mean too much, however, in my case the synthetic oil seemed to make a difference.
Regards,
Shipo
I put Valvoline Turbo V in my dad's Thunderbird almost exclusively - that could have been the difference. That was also a water-cooled turbo unit (IHI turbo as opposed to the Garretts that Chrysler used).
My Cummins uses a Holset turbo, a company owned by Cummins. Valvoline also made natural oil specifically for Cummins under the brand name Premium Blue, also sold at Dodge dealers as Mopar Diesel Oil. My engine has seen nothing but that specific oil since new - now at 44,000 miles and no problems of any kind.
DropTop,
Synthetics only add coatings if they specifically say they will. Otherwise, they will actually drip back faster than dino, because they flow easier at any temperature. For a gasoline engine, I would recommend Castrol Syntec full-synthetic - it comes in 10W30 and 5W50.
However, I believe that all of Chrysler's 2.2 and 2.5 liter Turbos had the water cooled bearing.
Regards,
Shipo
A quality SJ rated oil will not require any additives. If you want to go all out for engine longevity and protection, use a synthetic(note that @90% of drivers and vehicles will be well seved by dino oil). Don't waste your money on snake oil.
I think I hear your rods beginning to knock.
With just 3500 miles on the odometer, I certainly hope not! I know a 210hp 4 cylinder has to work hard to keep me happy (and I plan to do at least one performance modification). An aquaintance with the same car uses a synthetic. That's why I'm here - to learn about the pros & cons so that I don't hear any knocking as the miles add up.
Change your oil, change your fuel filter, buy good products, and save your additive money for a nice lunch somewhere, that's my opinion.
I'm now using synthetic in one of my high-strung Alfas, and I am pleased so far with the results, which are faster warm up and idle speed in cold weather, perhaps quieter valve/chain noise, and perhaps a little better fuel economy. I neither believe nor expect synthetic to prolong engine life to any measurable degree.