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Engine Oil--A slippery subject

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  • spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    I, too, would like specifics on Mobil's filter. In the meantime, suggest that you use a name brand filter; FRAM Extra Guard has been found to be very good in comparison testing and popular sizes are priced at $2.50 - $3.00 in most discount stores. Other good filters include, Purolator, WIX, and AC. I am uncomfortable with "no-name" filters because of possible problems of rupture/leakage as well as questionable filtration.
  • claryclary Member Posts: 18
    #260:

    Benefits to justify higher price? Yes they exist. Will one notice them? No, not in terms of increased mileage or performance. However, in terms of meeting one's goals of having a longer lasting engine it makes sense to use a high end filter. They do filter a much greater range of damaging particles, they hold a much greater amount of particles and they provide for better flow. All these factors are documented by the major filter manufacturers - Amsoil, Mobil, etcetera - which means that, with a better filter, during each mile or kilometre one drives there are fewer damaging particles circulating in the engine. Multiply that fact by 200 or 300 thousand miles and it seems to be a safe bet to spend about $200-300 over the ten or twenty year life of the car for high end filters.
  • alex17alex17 Member Posts: 35
    Anyone have experience using Nissan oil filters?

    My dealer made a big deal about using Nissan Filters even if I don;t get my oil change done there? Any Advice?

    Are there any good places in Texas to get a synthetic oil & filter change done that isn't too expensive? I could do it myself for about $20. But getting to my filter is a pain (Nissan Pathfinder).

    I'm going to use Castrol or Mobil 1 synthetic and do oil changes every 5000 - 6000 miles.

    Synthetic may not have any sufficient real world data to back up its claims but no one can deny that on paper it looks much better that DD oil. Better safe than sorry.
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    tell nissan to blow it out their rear. call and ask what a nissan filter will cost, then look and see what a fram or purolator will cost and you'll see why the dealer is pushing the nissan filter.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Make sure and get a filter with a metal backing. I used to use Fram, but no more since I found out they only have cardboard reinforcement. Most OEM filters have metal reinforcement. Most of them are not actually made by the car manufacturers, so if you can find one with the same features from the aftermarket, you can save some money and still get a good product.

    "Bosch" filters are of good quality, although I only see them at a small import store near me.
  • jemattjematt Member Posts: 6
    I have to disagree with the post dissing Nissan oil filters. I own a 1991 SE-R with 141,000 miles (and still going strong, despite being pushed to redline on an almost daily basis), and have lots of experience with Nissan Filters. If you cut open a Nissan filter vs. a Fram, notice the increased surface area in the Nissan filter. Also, people pay a mint for synthetic oil vs dino juice, why not spend maybe $4 more on an OEM filter for the peace of mind? Thirdly, there are many Nissan dealers around (Courtesy Nissan in Texas comes to mind) that will give discounts to various Nissan mailing list members (Courtesy give a 20% discount, if I recall correctly). My philosophy is: one cannot go wrong by purchasing the Nissan filter, which may ever be BETTER (gasp) than the Fram everyone else purchases!
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    I'm certainly not dissing Nissan filters, I'm just saying that I think there's a lot more profit padding in the factory/dealer filter than the Fram you'll get at Walmart. I just don't think you're truly getting $4 more of protection. I've got a Geo Tracker with 160000 miles and have always used the cheapest name brand filter. I have a sneaking suspicion that all filters, whether Nissan, Fram, Mopar, etc are all made in the same Taiwanese sweat shop anyway.
  • alvinalvin Member Posts: 8
    I have a new car (6 cylinder), and was wondering if I should change the oil before 7500 miles. I have 1300 miles on it now. Any opinions?
  • alvinalvin Member Posts: 8
    How often do people go between oil changes? My old Honda I used to do every 4k to 5k, even though the oil change place told me to come back every 3k. Now my new SUV manual says I can go as long as 7.5k. Can I go 7.5k or stay the same as I've been with my Honda?
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    Depends on your driving conditions. The GM algorithm in my new Silverado will suggest oil changes between 2,000 miles (short trips with low engine oil temp or super high engine oil temps) and 10,000 miles (highway driving at moderate engine oil temps). My GM algorithm trigger the oil change light at 3,400 miles. I live at 7,000 ft elevation, and commute back and forth to work short distances in cold conditions year-round. I also tow a big trailer on weekends.
    The other issue, which the math algorithm doen't take into account, is the amount of dust in the air which eventually some of which will end up in your engine oil.

    So,..... it depends. If you live in temperate conditions and frequently drive highway miles, I'd go 4 to 5k.
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    I cannot conceive going 10k between oil changes, even if it's mostly highway and you're using synthetic. I ususally go 3-4k between changes. I figure for $5 woth of oil and a $2.50 Fram filter, it's cheap insurance, or $15 if you go to an oil change place. I guess one issue is the whole overutilization of a finite resource. Do we really need to change oil at 3k, or is it ok to go 10k between changes to extend our oil resources.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #272

    One can go 15k if the conditions are good. (Avg miles per yr are 12-15k)
  • bluemistbluemist Member Posts: 23
    Although we should extend our oil resources somewhat, I think that, if changing the oil every 5K miles lets a car last 200,000 miles, but changing it every 10K miles lets it last 150,000 miles, the oil and energy required to make another car to replace the current vehicle far exceeds the difference in oil changes.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #274
    On course for 300k Scotty!!
  • alex17alex17 Member Posts: 35
    My dealer charges
    $5.25 for a Nissan Oil Filter

    So I guess the price seems a little high but not too bad.
  • erobertaeroberta Member Posts: 1
    Synthetic Oil- What's the best brand?

    Is it really better than regular oil ?
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Oh boy...I think you should start at the beginning of this topic, read everything, then post follow up questions as that question has been answered many times :)
  • legendlegend Member Posts: 1
    Synthetic oil is used and recommended by Corvette, Porsche, Rolls Royce and others. Mobil 1 is the oil that these cars come with from the factory.

    Maybe they know somthing we don't.

    I did call Mobil and asked them about extended oil changes. They said to follow manufactors recomendations.

    Check out http://auto.msk.ru:8101/auto/ehoilfaq.htm an interesting article about motor oil.
  • ralph124cralph124c Member Posts: 36
    In all this talk, I did'nt see the thing that concerns me most-the way these oil change shops treat your car. I just changed my oil (by myself), after going to one of those nation-wide chains. I had to use a 2' section of pipe on the wrench to get the drain plug off! The plastic washer had been crushed down to the thickness of saran wrap! I don't know why these guys feel the need to overtighten everything!
    from now on., I'm the only one who's going to change the oil on my car!
  • kewldudekewldude Member Posts: 20
    ralph124c, I totally agree. My girlfriend took her car in to one of those shops and they stripped the threads on the drain plug. She found out when she was driving it home because it was leaking oil. They gave her such a hard time about fixing it that she didn't even bother to take it back to them. There is no reason to tighten that bolt that much. You cold tighten it by hand and then turn it another 1/2 of a turn with a wrench and it'd be tight enough I think. I don't trust those places at all. They can really scam you easy. They could not change the filter or not let it drain completely and most people would never know. I had one place that put 1 quart too much oil in my car! It seemed like it always slightly smoked after that (it was an older car). I don't mind doing it myself but. It usually ends up making a mess plus you have to worry about disposing the oil but it's worth it to know it's done right.
  • jmannjmann Member Posts: 1
    The dealer (toyota) I use has never messed the bolt up. The bolt face will round out eventually, requiring replacement.
  • snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    Since january 99, 0w-30 is in the market, at least I saw it at that time. Not many places are selling it. Pep Boys said they did not even hear. BMW is using but I don't recall which model.
    My car is using 5w-30. I am wondering that is it OK to use it instead of 5w-30. Mobil's web page does not make any recommendation. Any idea, any experience..........
    Thanks
  • bluemistbluemist Member Posts: 23
    If you are using synthetic oil, 5w30 will provide sufficient protection unless you live in the northernmost states of the US (i.e. Maine, Michigan, N. Dakota, Alaska) or Canada. In that case, your car would need 0w30 as well as other things to weather the cold (i.e. an engine block heater or heated garage).
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    The BMW Approved synthetic is a 5W40 produced by Valvoline. It is NOT the same formulation as regular Valvoline Synthetic. Some BMW dealers sell it for less than $3.50/qt.
  • rparkrpark Member Posts: 14
    I think they overtighten the bolt because they don't change the gasket, and they don't want it to leak (& let the next guy worry about it!)
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    A more likely explanation is they are too lazy to use a manual wrench and use a pneumatic one instead...the same kind the tire changers use when they overtighten lug nuts. That's what one shop used on my daughter's car, and they cross-threaded and destroyed the oil pan.
  • joecarojoecaro Member Posts: 44
    You can replace the oil pan bolt with a brass valve thaqt uses a ball bearing and a springy thing. Its available at most general auto stores. I've used one for years. It's easy for me to do my own changes, and even the oil change places haven't been able to screw with it.
  • PeterUbersPeterUbers Member Posts: 48
    I have a quick question nobody seems to know the answer to...

    When I start my car in the morning (cold start) I get an obscene amount of exhaust to come out of the car...After about 10 seconds it goes away and I don't see it again until I have another cold start. The car only has 45k miles on it. Somebody said I should add oil detergent to my oil... does this actually work? A tech also once told me I have engine sludge. What can I do to resolve this problem without major engine work??

    Thank you.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Did you skip oil changes or buy the car used?

    Kmart, et al, has an engine cleaner. It is basically diesel fuel. Put a quart in your engine, run it for a few minutes, drain. Do not load the engine. If you need to put it on a ramp, do so BEFORE putting this in.

    Running synthetic oil after changing the oil will also do a good job washing it out, although will cost $16 or more. Either one will work.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It sounds like your car has bad valve guide seals.

    When the car sits overnight, the oil in the top half of the engine slowly runs down into the combustion chambers. When you start the car the oil burns quickly.

    But, this would be very unusual for a car with low mileage. Instead of guessing, I would take the car to a competent shop and have it looked at.

    Also, if this car was ever overheated, this could be the cause.

    Good Luck!
  • gullygully Member Posts: 2
    Second to the valve seal comment. Early failue could be a result of overheating or age. Besides this is not an extremely costly matter, $2-300.
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    The smoke is definetly coming from burning oil that collects within the cylinders, and the post 291 diagnosis of worn valve-guide seals is probably correct, but don't ignore the warning regarding engine sludge. If all of the drain passages in the engine were clear, the oil at the top of the engine would drain back to the pan instead of sitting until it drained into the cylinders. You may have more than one problem to solve. I think you're wise to be concerned about it enough to want to take corrective action. I suspect that 9 out of 10 car owners would ignore it until a major problem occurred, and later blame the car manufacturer for an engine that didn't have a long life.
  • odyceeodycee Member Posts: 33
    A mechanic told me that synthetic oil are not for all cars except BMW and Porches. It will eat up your engine gasket and causes oil leaks. Does anyone has any FACTS that support this theory?
  • odyceeodycee Member Posts: 33
    The new gasket is design for 99 bmw/porsche to use synthetic oil.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Many other manufacturers do not have an official opinion on synthetic oil.

    I saw one Edmunds participant who had that exact problem. Oil would not stop leaking on his brand new car, until he switched to regular oil. Kind of strange I've only seen one experience, though. I've read every oil related topic thoroughly since Edmunds started. So I personally give it zilcho credence as a rule.

    Synthetic WILL DEFINITELY cause leaks on older cars that have gunk built up in the engines. Synthetic will wash away the gunk, and expose leaks in gaskets.
  • anne4anne4 Member Posts: 35
    I'm no expert on the topic, even tho I've done as much reading as i can. But as far as i can tell from research, the mechanic that told you synthetic "eats gaskets" is totally ignorant. Mechanics can be victims of "old husbands (vs. wives) tales" as much as anyone else. This guy just heard a story once and is passing it along.

    As guitarzan said, synthetic can find EXISTING gasket leaks faster than some dino oils because syn flows well at low temps and doesn't thin out as fast as dino at high temps. For these reasons it also protects your engine better, especially during cold starts and also at high operating temps.

    If syn really ate gaskets, auto manufacturers would tell you in their owners manual not to use it, and that its use would void your warranty. I have a 99 Honda, and my manual says it's fine to use it. They just say not to exceed the normal oil change intervals.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    Early belief was that the "contaminants" in conv oil helped to keep the seals swelled tight against the journals. The first synthetics were so contaminant free that the seals stopped swelling and allowed bypass.

    Also, viscosity of cold oil is so much lower in synthetics vs conv. When your engine is cold, the largest clearances exsist. A really thin cold(synthetic) oil can leak or blow by during the first minutes of operation.
  • chiaofen99chiaofen99 Member Posts: 7
    People that I heard of who's working in the Mobil lab couple of years ago are actually quite
    proud of their products , it's good , good ,good,
    the other oil product I am using is Castrol Synthetic , it's very good ,too. The difference
    of good and bad oil can be easily tell when your
    car has a small block engine and busy working attitude ,(typically Honda 4 cylinders ) , most
    conventional oil I'd tried in the past , make your
    car fell powerless as soon as 1800Mi. after oil change, and works badly when the weather is extremely wet and hot during summer time . And all
    STP products are a wasting of $$ , as well as slick 50 . (just my experence speaking )
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    I don't think you can tell power diff between oils with seat of the pants observations.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    I notice loss of power in Honda engines when they're hot. Previously my Integra, and currently my CL. I use Mobil 1! I think that is a characteristic of the car, perhaps the temperature of the intake, more than anything we can control.
  • chiaofen99chiaofen99 Member Posts: 7
    Oh, Yeah ? you are either driving a 8 cylinder
    old car or a truck , it does matters a lot on small engines , if I can't even tell when my car starts to losing it's response time , can you tell
    from a far distance ? If you do change your oil
    all by yourself through out the time , you can even tell how THIN conventional oil products become , they are just.... things of the past ,
    and not the endurance one . Thiner than vegetable
    oil after 3000 Mi.. Which was not when I pour them
    in , so maybe you want to change 1. your seat. 2.
    your pants . Better yet change the one under it too !
  • chiaofen99chiaofen99 Member Posts: 7
    By the way , what's with these people that keeping on saying Syn. oil will wear the washer gasket and whatever out ? Here are some cars I did
    used Syn. oil , Saturn SC2/92 , Prelude Si/92 ,
    Accord EX/92 , Olds cuts/87 , Camry V6/89 , and
    Buick Regal/92 , Maxima/91 , these are/were cars in the family or the extent family , non of them
    has/had those problems , quit the rumors already!
    Don't tell me it's being spread out by some oil
    Co. that doesn't know how to make quality Syn. oil . (well, there are some major oil Co.s doesn't
    has Lab and Lab badget , belive or not .)
    Perhaps Markbuck should fight it out and we should overcome ! I enjoy change oil for all these
    cars when we are gathering around, the only 2 I
    can't tell difference are the olds cuts and buick
    Regal v8 , which are both GM products .
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    I'll be honest, I have not done any comparisons. However, from looking at the laws of thermodynamics, I don't see how it is possible that synthetic oil can be a superior heat sink to dino oil! The oil is at a high temperature, and there is nothing there to cool it off significantly so that it CAN absorb a lot more heat.

    I concede it is possible that you've witnessed a better response with synthetic. I haven't done any comparisons, so I don't really know. It is possible that it's flow characteristics help the engine respond better. But you know what? When pushing an engine to high rpm's, changing from 5w30 to 10w30 will reduce vibration significantly at those rpms. And your response will probably go DOWN due to the extra power needed to pump the heavier oil. In some way, a better response can actually be more damaging to the engine.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    I do use synthetics in my vehicles that I race (motorcycles). The reason is for added protection, not added power. In my beater stuff, power washer motors, lawn mower, I run all purpose diesel oil.
    In my new Chevy truck, I run synthetic blends that I buy cheap with private labels like Tech2000 (Walmart)($1.27 per quart). Just not convinced that spending all that money is worth it on my non-race vehicles that will fail for other reasons than engine wear.

    Seat of the pants measurement accuracy is around +/- 10%. There is no way oil brand or type makes that much difference.
  • chiaofen99chiaofen99 Member Posts: 7
    Please trust me on this one , it matters on my
    small engine cars , I am not saying Sync. oil boost power , but when con. oil was used in these small engines , they lost power as soon as those
    oil worn thin , on the other hand , Sync.oil does
    last longer on handling the engines , therefore
    quicker response(compare to con. oil after the same driving manner/and mileage) , when con. oil was used in these engines and worn thin , these cars shifted way frequently(Auto Trans.) , these is especially true on Saturn and 4 cy. Accords , like I said ,I can't tell the difference on 8cy. Regal and Cuts, since these cars were borned "dull" and "numb".
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Oh I see. I understand that and agree with you. I thought the gist of your original post was that the response is better due to synthetic being a better heat sink, but it wasn't. OK!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A long time back, Anne4 asked questions as to what others thought of synthetics vs. dino oil.

    I think she was looking for some type of empirical data to prove or disprove the benefits of either type.

    Well, I tried a more informal approach. I went out into our twenty or so technician shop and, one by one asked the guys what they thought.

    As it turned out, about half of them used synthetics. The ones that didn't felt that regular oil, if changed often, was more than good enough. They felt that synthetics were a waste of money.

    One guy asked me " How long do you plan to keep your car, anyway?" He felt that a well maintanied Honda engine was good for 250,000 or more miles.

    So, who knows? I sure don't!
  • bluemistbluemist Member Posts: 23
    This is what I found on my old car, a 1996 Hyundai Accent. The short-term (i.e. immediate) benefits are as follows:

    - Easier starting in the winter
    - Better protection in hot weather

    The long-term benefits were that, after 90,000 miles in 3 years, with an automatic transmission, a 1.5L 92 HP engine and going 75 MPH on the highway, the engine still sounded just like new when I traded the car in.

    I never had an engine problem with that car, either, AND I did substitute non-synthetic oil in 1 oil change to see if it did any harm (it did NOT).

    My preferred synthetic oil is Mobil 1 Tri-synthetic formula.

    As always YMMV, but at 9000 miles, I'm putting Mobil 1 into my new car.
  • alphadog2alphadog2 Member Posts: 1
    I am thinking of blending my own oil. I'm not interested in performance, just longevity. I want to use syn. 5w-30, and dino. 10w-30. Is this advisable? A 50-50 mixture in a '99 G.M.C. Sierra with a vortec V-6? 1500 miles now. Thanks.
  • bluemistbluemist Member Posts: 23
    I wouldn't advise blending DD and Synthetic oil. IMO, it is the worst of both worlds---not as cheap as DD oil, but not the same quality of protection as full synthetic.

    Synthetic oil costs approx $4/qt, so an oil change will probably cost you $24 extra (if you have a 6 qt oil capacity) with full synthetic.

    Compare this to a blend. You'd pay $3+$12 = $15 extra (same oil capacity), plus your time in doing the blending.

    If I were you, I'd spend the $9 extra per oil change to go full synthetic to get the full benefits.
This discussion has been closed.