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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    Dad used to own a '72 Buick Electra, did they ever make convertibles out of those? If I won the lottery I'd buy him a restored one.

    Last Electra convertible was 1970. For 1971-75, if you wanted a big Buick convertible, they still offered the LeSabre or, from 1971-73, the Centurion, which was a mid-level model that replaced the old Wildcat.

    The LeSabre/Centurion were similar to the Electra though, just on a 3" shorter wheelbase (124" versus 127") and shorter overall (around 221" versus 226")

    Once they started with the 5mph bumpers, I think the LeSabre bulked up to around 226", while the Electra were around 233"...I think they were actually marginally longer than the Cadillac DeVilles!

    I think the '71-73 Buicks were really handsome cars. Big, but smooth and cleanly styled, almost sporty for a car that size.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,682
    edited July 2011
    > I know you want a Caddy convertible, but have you ever seen those "short deck" Caddys from that period? I believe they were called "Park Avenue".

    Clever idea!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    My Uncle bought a new '65 2 Dr Convertible. Light Blue with white leather and a white roof. Really nice car for the day. He kept it well over 10 years. He also inherited a '57 Belair 4 Dr from his aunt with 40,000 miles on it. 283 power pack. It sat in his garage until he sold it to a friend of mine for $6800 in 1981. He restored it which didn't require any paint or mechanical work. Then he took a job in Hawaii and had it shipped there from S. Fl.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    The '65 is my favorite Caddy. I especially like the Eldorado and Fleetwoods, with the clean sides and wide rocker panels.

    The '66 is similar. Here is Ann Miller's former '66 Fleetwood Brougham. What a magnificent automobile.

    http://www.leftcoastclassics.com/1966-cadillac-fleetwood/
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I love how back then 124" was the shorter wheelbase. LOL

    His was a hardtop coupe. As a kid in the back seat, what fascinated me was that it was B-pillarless.

    He owned that V8 through both OPEC oil crisis, though, ouch. I think that's why, to this day, I've always tended towards the more efficient cars that do what I need.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Today on my commute I was behind a current-gen Malibu and up comes a Cruze on my left. The person kind of slowed up due to traffic stopping ahead but I was able to get a short but very good comparing look at both, side profile and rear, and the front of the Cruze as it was coming up. To me:

    1. They pretty much looked to be the same size, height, width...

    2. The taillamps on the Cruze look very similar to the Elantra

    3. Maybe it was because they were both the came color but it looked as though the back window and surrounding pillars were exactly the same, the entire green house really

    4. The Cruze has one big-a nose on it - I couldn't help but think "A-cha-cha-cha-cha" (can't think of the actor's name). It almost looks as though Chevy is following Dodge's theme and sticking the truck / CUV nose on EVERYTHING.

    5. Based on the external size of each I asked myself why would I buy the Malibu when the Cruze looks just a big / slightly bigger?

    Admittedly I did catch up to the Cruze, got a good look at it from the driver side and it appeared bulkier but smaller interior-wise, so maybe the Malibu is bigger? The driver looked kind of on the heavy-side so maybe theat swayed the picture. But I sat in a Malibu a few times and it didn't seem all the big to me. Maybe the way the packaging is laid out and used.

    Overall I was mixed on them. I were in the market for that size of vehicle I not sure if I would consider looking at either but there is definitely shared DNA between them.

    But by the why the guy was driving the Cruze I don't think it's long for this world.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I couldn't help but think "A-cha-cha-cha-cha" (can't think of the actor's name).

    image

    Jimmy Durante
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    edited July 2011
    But I sat in a Malibu a few times and it didn't seem all the big to me. Maybe the way the packaging is laid out and used.

    The Malibu is one of those cars that's on the low end of the midsized spectrum. According to the EPA, it has 95 cubic feet of interior space and a 16 cubic foot trunk. The Cruze, which is marketed as a compact, has 94 cubic feet of interior space and a 16 cubic foot trunk. For the record the EPA defines a midsized car as a sedan or coupe having between 110-120 cubic feet of combined passenger and trunk space. They use a different standard for wagons, and they might for hatchbacks, as well.

    I believe the Cruze has slightly more shoulder room, especially in the back, and a bit more headroom than the Malibu, and sits up a bit higher, where the Malibu has more legroom, and has a somewhat lower seating position. If you have long legs, the Malibu might be the better choice. I've sat in both, and found them both to be decent, but preferred the front legroom of the Malibu, plus the seats seemed a bit bigger and plusher.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In another thread I saw someone compare the Cruze to the 1980s Ford Taurus.

    These "compacts" are just as big as mid-sizers used to be.

    I have a feeling the Malibu would have more leg room, primarily. That size class is approaching "full-size".
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    I bought a new Malibu in late May (and we love it and it was discounted, unlike the Cruze), but get up to both in person and it will become evident that the Cruze is smaller. The back seat is smaller too. The Malibu is long...well, at least a long wheelbase (112.3")--.3" longer than a '77 Malibu Classic Coupe. I do like the Cruze, and it's built locally, but it was just too small for our family car.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There must be a sizable gap between the Spark and Cruze.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    How can you part with that "Fine Corinthian Laether"? Impossible, Tatoo!

    Anyway, my mom had a 5th A and when she spun it in the rain after applying the brakes fast (no accident but white-knuckle event), she sold it and got the POS Caddy FWBDE! :lemon:

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    One thing that I find odd, is that I can fit more comfortably in the back seat of the Cruze than I can the Malibu. AND, I can fit in the back of the Malibu better than I do the Impala!

    I don't think GM intended it to work out that way! However, the main reason I can do it in the Cruze is because of the way the seatback is shaped. I end up straddling it a bit with my knees. With the Malibu and the way its seat is shaped, I can't do that. And while the Malibu does have that hollowed out area for your knees, it's too low for me, so my knees end up hitting above it. And then with the Impala, I actually have to squeeze in sideways, if the front seat is all the way back!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    Supposedly when the Impala was reskinned in 2006, legroom in the rear was reduced some. I've never sat in the back of one.

    I'm only 5'8", but I have a lot of legroom in the back of a Malibu. I think one place the Malibu is a bit skimpy on room, is headroom. I have short legs and a long torso, and I don't have too much headroom left over! My Cobalt actually seems to have more headroom--although that might be after three years of my 235 lbs. 'flattening' out the driver's seat some!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited July 2011
    $31,495 for 384 lb-ft of RWD goodness:

    http://www.jimellischevrolet.com/new/Chevrolet/2011-Chevrolet-Caprice+Police+Pat- - rol+Vehicle-117d73400a0a00de017e6f05d42381b5.htm

    Edit to fix title, Freudian slip? Guess I was hoping it would replace the Impala.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    edited July 2011
    As a GM buyer, I am mystified why this car isn't sold to the public...other than it would hurt their CAFE. Don't really like the 'grille' on the front fender, but the rest is...intriguing.

    The 'Caprice' name probably won't hurt, as I've read over the years where a lot of cops regret when Chevy gave up the RWD police market.

    Geez, the rear end is a dead-ringer for an Impala, isn't it?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    The 'Caprice' name probably won't hurt, as I've read over the years where a lot of cops regret when Chevy gave up the RWD police market.

    Yeah, they did. For years, some departments would rather refurbish '94-96 Caprices, rather than buy new Crown Vics.

    FWIW, I don't think the Crown Vic EVER got to the point that it matched the performance of those LT-1 Caprices. And I think the only other police car since then to beat it was the Hemi Charger. I'm sure that new rebadged G-8 would take it on, though!
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I hated when GM gave up the Caprice. They were made right here in Jersey. The flipped the factory to make Blazers and then shut it down.

    Wonder if I can declare myself a municipality?

    OW - you do know that there was never such a thing as Corinthian leather? They just thought it sounded good with Ricardo Montalban saying it. The actual leather was another New Jersey product.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    I hated when GM gave up the Caprice. They were made right here in Jersey. The flipped the factory to make Blazers and then shut it down.

    Really? I thought all the Caprices, Roadmasters, Impala SS, and Fleetwoods were made in Arlington, Texas by that time? So there was still a plant in Jersey cranking them out?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    Our '93 Caprice was built at Willow Run (Ypsilanti), MI. When I had my dealer do a dealer search, I was hoping it had come from Arlington as GM had already announced the impending closure of Willow Run. As it was, it was a good car.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    In our town, they use Crown Vics and Chargers. NJ State uses the same.

    Even stranger , if you are a GM buyer, is why can't you get the G8 in any other division?

    GM is several steps behind what we know they are capable of. At least they are adding SS to Camaro. Sure took long enough. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    They were building them in Linden, NJ. All that's left last I heard is the UAW office.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    I think the Charger makes the best (looking) cop car. Wonder how reliable they are?

    What do you all think of the new Malibu bodystyle? Got my Motortrend today, saw it on the cover. I like the front, on the fence with the tail end.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    Haven't seen the Motor Trend, but I think the front's OK, back is an improvement, profile is not as rich-looking as current Malibu. Wheelbase is shorter than the current car, too.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited July 2011
    Charger is the way to go but I have seen Impala creep onto the NJTP Highway Patrol. They use blacked out windows but completely stock exterior as a cloaking device. NOBODY expects these to be Smokey. Brilliant!

    I like it but it's still a very conservative change, IMHO. But I'm not complaining as it's a HUGE improvement over pre-2008 'Bu. Obviously they heard UL guy re: the taillights!

    But in terms of market-leading drive-train, it falls short and keeps highlighting that GM is still behind the competition. They should be LEADING instead of worrying that they will undercut sales of Impala and their other divisions. The Regal GS Turbo should be an option NOW. Not in 2013.

    Behind as usual, under-delivering to potential customers. Keep trying Akerson. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    What Would Grandpa Drive? Apparently, a CTS Wagon or Panamera

    What you see here is a list of the cars most often purchased by senior citizens, and thus, the fact that the Lincoln Town Car, Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS are the top three spots should come as no shock whatsoever. But look at the fourth place listing – the Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon. That's right, Government Motors' Art & Science cargo-hauler accounted for a whopping 74.2 percent of all senior citizen car sales CTS Sport Wagon sales between 2009 and 2010
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    Wow, big surprise there.

    How 'bout Porsche at #7? That explains all the Porsches I'm trying to pass with my Cobalt, that have a turn signal on for three miles.

    Not really.

    How about calling them "Oldfolksaporsche"? That's about as clever as "Snuze" (gee, the best-selling car in the country), and "Rentabu" (the second-best-selling car in the country).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wow, I'm real AARP candidate! I bought a new Cadillac DTS when I was 42. A Buick Lucerne CXS was my second choice. I drive a Mercury Grand Marquis LS as my everyday hooptie. I bought my first new Cadillac when I was 24 and my second one when I was 28.

    By the time most people are able to afford a Porsche, they are older. Oh yeah, I see PLENTY of 20-somethings in their 911s they bought with the money they made at The Gap or as a management trainee at Staples! Maybe he's of the privileged class where getting a Porsche when you turn 16 is a birthright?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What do you all think of the new Malibu bodystyle?

    I like it. Best angle is the front, IMHO.

    Profile is OK, I'm with uplanderguy in preferring the old profile (a little). The rear deck is so high, I wonder about visibility backing up.

    Looks better from the rear angle, though. I like the Camaro-inspired tails, they've grown on me.

    Still love the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup interior color scheme. Lots of buttons there, but not as bad as recent Hondas.

    Overall a thumbs up. The let the design evolve nicely.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2011/07/hands-on-with-chevy-mylink-gms-- sync-slayer.html#more

    The one part of the article I don't agree with is the complaint about touchscreens. They have to be implemented properly, but anyone with a Tablet PC will tell you they can work wonders.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2011
    I wish I had a tablet PC - it's really frustrating trying to move a simple ebook in pfd format to my wife's iPad. Ready to drop the @#$@# thing into a GM press at Hamtramck. :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It would be nice to see automakers offer a dock for iPads, or just include one as an option. It could be the graphic interface for the GPS, stereo, backup cam, etc. Plus they are cheap.

    I wonder if they're rated for mobile duty, though, all those bumps in the road.

    Hyundai gives you an iPad as an owner's manual to the Equus. You can even schedule service from it.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Chevy, Govt mandated rides-Volt, Spark, Sonic, and the Cruze..The Impala gets the 3.6 V-6 and some minor upgrades, same basic body with high pricing..The Malibu is warmed over for 2012 and a little larger 4-banger in the future..

    Buick, Verano, gussed-up Cruze more power from 4-bangers, Regal reaches the mid-30 price range with 4-banger engines and the LaCrosse gets the 3.6 engine and pricing to the 40k..

    Caddy, same face, more money for the CTS, XTS will replace the DTS and STS with 3.6 engine of various HP and still FWD with AWD available..Pricing will be upped to make one feel warm and fuzzy..The old Northstar V-8 dies..

    The Italian Chrysler looks like a winner and the Dodge Charger may be a star, but then again it's Chrysler and their screwed up dealer network..IMHO... Fiat doesn't have any money, and Italy is no shining star on the finances...The UAW will probably end up owning the whole ball of wax.. Out of the 53 cars owned, only 3 were Chrysler products, Valiant, 59 Dodge Matador, and 66 Barracuda Hi-PO...Valiant bought for wife, kept 1 year. Matador V-8 bought new, keep 1yr, tranny let go within 3k, traded it in on new 1960 Impala Conv with the 348 cu V-8. keep it for 6 mos..The Dodge Matador was junk and the Cuda survived 90k mi of spirited driving..

    I guess Ford will be the company, that 5.0 GT is getting close..

    With 34 GM autos over the years, they are not too high on my list now especially with a CEO that pushes for $1.00 federal gas tax.. This "Eco" stuff is getting boring and the 40+ mpgs cars are high-priced funny looking little deathtraps..
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited July 2011
    Caddy highest GM. Lincoln right there. Looks like Akerson wrote off Lincoln a little too soon?

    image

    Hyundai, Jeep and Chrysler show biggest gains in J.D. Power APEAL report

    Like I said, GM is NOT the fastest growing in a lot of significant areas! Hyundai over Buick, GMC, Chevy, Toyota and Honda??? What's up with THAT?? :surprise:

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    edited July 2011
    Like they say, perception lags reality by...how long?

    Does this chart translate into sales numbers? At the end of the day, that number seems more important.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    GM scored par - their luxury brands are above average, the mainstream brands slightly below.

    There's no news there, really.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited July 2011
    Does this chart translate into sales numbers? At the end of the day, that number seems more important.

    Excellent question. We'll see if the sales numbers reflect the results.

    Here is another: Who's market share is growing fastest? It ain't GM! :surprise:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited July 2011
    Exactly! No real change in GM product satisfaction. I agree. Reflects about 80% of GM's products sold this year that are UNDER INDUSTRY AVERAGE.

    The APEAL Study examines how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive, based on owner evaluations of more than 80 vehicle attributes. The 2011 APEAL Study is based on responses gathered between February and May 2011 from more than 73,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2011 model-year cars and trucks who were surveyed after the first 90 days of ownership. The APEAL Study complements the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which focuses on problems experienced by owners during the first 90 days of ownership

    Many miles before GM improves.... :D

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The study must have a margin of error ... I wonder how many GM vehicles are below average when you account for that. Or above, for that matter.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    Why are Honda, Toyota, and Nissan so low...well below GM on this list? Any takers?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    edited July 2011
    Even with just over 2 K on the new '11 Grand Cherokee, I would place Chrysler way up between VW and GM on this list. I felt I was taking a leap of faith with my new purchase, but after driving it just once on the interstate, I was sold.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited July 2011
    Why didn't you buy one of the Lamdas from Buick, Chevy or GMC? I know they are the same but would like to hear if you considered them?

    Regards,
    OW
  • carstrykecarstryke Member Posts: 168
    Well of course Hyundai/Kia looks appealing with a all time high of unemployment and debt. Once we all start making real money again, we will be able to afford real cars :)
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    The Buick is very nice, I could see myself driving it actually, though I don't need seating for 7 and the biggest turn-off for me is the FWD. Just a personal preference. I give GM a lot of acolades for the Lamda, and the Buick is stunning. As I usually do when considering a purchase, I start researching long before the vehicle has hit the market. I knew Jeep had the new Pentastar V6 and it's on a Mercedes chassis. The look, build, comfort, and ride absolutely sold me. I've so far driven in high winds, 75 mph in traffic alongside the big-rigs and not once have I felt any wind pushing me around, not even a hint! It's remarkable compared to the 07 4Runner Sport I just came from.
    If it weren't for the FWD thing, I might just have bought an Enclave.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    By the way, I was pro-bailout. The economic problems what would have taken GM and Chrysler down were not created by them, is why I feel that way.

    by saying that you are saying companies should not take into account any problems or challenges not created or started by themselves. If someone or something else manifests a problem outside our company, we don't need to do anything about it, because you will bail us out with tax payer money.

    Ford seemed to do just fine with problems not created by them, without bailouts galore.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Hyundais/Kias make GM look like.... :sick:

    Bad Economy or good! :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    OW never misses an opportunity to take a set of data and infer something untrue from it.

    The median manufacturer is probably 1/4 up from the bottom in sales volume.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The data seems to bother GM devotees. I wonder why?

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Honestly, I'm not sure there is any more appeal to most cars these days than tract homes in subdivisions - mostly cookie cutter designs. Circlew - I'll give you the Optima, like it or not, is different looking for a change.
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