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Interior looks nice, but I'm not impressed with Exterior of the car. Can't say I don't like, it's just OK, looks a little like old TL with rear lights from Corolla. It better have good performance, otherwise can be a bust for Acura.
As pointed already by several people I believe we must wait a bit before issuing final say on this vehicle. I agree that right now with 20" tyres and all it may have a sport attitute exceeding the needs of a luxury flagship car but overall the aesthetic is sound. I also seem to agree that it reminds of several cars (back from accord and new BMW 5 series, sides TL etc). This most certainly will result in fact in a 'unique' look (as already suggested by varmint). Most importantly, as for the release of the new accord, I feel that Honda/Accura styling does not cater to the "head turning" type of desires but more to the 'understated elegance'. When I drive around in my 2003 Accord a lot of folks in Buicks etc.. actually ask if it is from the MB line of products. In fact that design grows on you until you realize that like for previous models these are designs that live on to establish 'classics'. The real gain is that you do not feel sitting in a sardine box as styling at large sweeps back and forth between linear-edgy/or curvilineous-soft trends. So I am sure we will enjoy this car for the 'looks' portion and I have no doubt that will be extatic about the 'innards' of the car. On this side although I would have loved to have more info about the production vehicle ( I guess some of the stats missing reflect upon this at the NYMS being a prototype and not really the production vehicle). I also would love to know about plans of implementation of the electric engine coupling to the 300HP gasoline 6V and other aspects of the SH-AWD. Well it is actually a long wish list...... but I am hopefull we will hear soon about the car and how it actually drives!!!
i was wondering what your track record is for predicting a sales success/flop based upon YOUR styling tastes?
we were all right on the aztec.
hopefully you will test drive the upcoming RL too. doubtful that you'll get a $7k discount on this car though. at least for now.
My logic is that RL has to compete with a line of vehicles like newly designed 5, GS, A6 and M45. Current RL does not have a big stake in this category, based on this it MUST have TOTAL PACKAGE. I'm sure Rl will be able to double current sales, but I think Acura have different number in mind.
If you take TL for example, it goes head to head with 5 year old 330 and 3 year old G35. TL also had a big stake in near luxury and has nice design.
It doesnt matter if the TL's competition is a few years older. The TL spanks them, its a best in class car. The older TL never reached those heights. What will most likely happen is Infiniti will "freshen" its G35 for '05, which Im sure Honda designed the TL to be prepared for. the 3 series is a bit of a wild card. BMW wouldnt dare to mess with their darling... but that doesnt mean bangle still wont royally screw it design wise, like he has with every single BMW since he took the job.
Don't get me wrong a like TL and I too think it's the bast in class, but in my opening TL has something RL does not. I think RL will have the same success previous TL had, it will put Acura on the map(in this class), but it want has success of new TL. Maybe I just expected too much, who knows.
Time will show.
The new RL looks great to me but how is this SH AWD any different than my wife's Subaru LL Bean with AWD and LSD on the rear wheels?
...when looking at photos of this car (plus all the excellence coming from other automakers), it's amazing how many outstanding luxury sedans are out there right now, is it not?
Nowakj66 - Good question. It's been a while since I've read up on Subie's LSD implementation, but I think these are the differences.
An LSD is designed to prevent more than a bare minimum of slippage. During a hard turn, it ensures that the outside wheel gets a fair share of the torque being routed through the rear diffy. But the amount of torque split between the rear wheels is pretty much 50/50.
SH-AWD takes it a step further. This system makes sure that the outside wheel get even more than it's fair share of power. It can send as much as 100% to one side or the other. With more torque going to the outside wheel, it pushes the car around the turn.
Are you familiar with the ATTS system that Honda offered on the Prelude SH? It's like that, only for the rear wheels.
Furthermore, SH-AWD uses electronic sensors hooked up to the steering, engine, a yaw gyro-thingy, and brakes to manage torque distribution. If you stomp on the gas, it sends power to the rear for better traction and acceleration. If you yank the wheel to the right, it sends power to the outside left wheel as you turn (not after).
If you mean Best Torque-steerer in Class, than yeah!
MT just put the CTS ahead of it, and C&D didn't exactly say "Amen" either!
It's a nice car, but let's settle down, or we'll have to enforce a two drink minimum, k?
Instead of cutting down on power at one wheel, it transmits the power to the other, and in a continuous pattern (not in steps, or some preset distribution).
First I said that's what I THINK, but if you want to go with review, CR rated number one over 330, G35 and so on( CR is most reliable out of all magazines).
So this is the new RL. Not much in the way of styling, looks like a S-Class hit a 7-Series at the rear, it has a little Bangle trunklid treatment and a S-Class like light treatment. Other than the extra features its just a upgraded TL, which isn't "bad" I guess, but I expected more in the area of styling considering what a leap the new TL was over the old model. This new RL still has that Accord shape to it, no matter what the details that shape is still there.
After looking at the pictures some more, I see a lot of the just discontinued Acura CL coupe in the lines of this new RL. This car is just so uninspired, stylewise at least.
The new RL reminds me of the current Infinite Q. When it came out, people talked about the features of the car, but it just didn't sell that well, mostly because it didn't look as good as the SClass and Lexus LS. Now, I think Acura will have better sales than before, because face it, the current RL was good 3 or 4 years ago...but now, not so much. The biggest problem is, I just don't get the "WOW" effect when I see the car. When I saw the TL, even the TSX, I got somewhat of a "wow" that looks really good, and will definitely be able to compete w/ the BMWs, MBs, Audis and Infiniti's. Being an Acura buff, I think like many, I was hoping that the new RL was going to be the new Acura Revolution. The MDX, TL, TSX started the way, and the RL, though looks nice, and I'm sure will have a lot of great features, just didn't make me feel satiated. The MB Eclass, the BMW 5 Series both bring the "WOW" effect. They may not offer the greatest amount of options, but for some reason, people are willing to pay for them...so, I think in order for Acura to bring people to their dealerships, they need to get them from the outside, which is probably why the TL is doing so well, it looks great!
Its not really fair to compare this car to all of the 5 or E series. If it is going to cost 48K to 50K fully optioned then it only compares to the 525 and forget the E all together. The base prices of these cars are in the same range but that base is only the min and try to find that on the lot....
To me this car should be compared with the M45 and the GS300. Agains those - its a winner in my book. After the M45 (or M35) is revamped by the end of the year it might be a toss up ( I really thing Infiniti will mess up again on the styling and interior).
Thanks for the LSD v. SH-AWD explaination. It makes sense now. Sounds a bit more sophisticated and performance oriented.
"( CR is most reliable out of all magazines)"
I respect CR, and it serves an essential consumer perspective. But we all know it will pick practicality over excitement almost every single time.
CR picks TL, the enthusiast mags pick G35, that says it all.
I expect the same with RL/M. CR will pick RL and GS over M, that's a virtual given, but I don't think Infiniti minds. Neither do Infiniti fans!
I remember the days when first pictures of TSX and TL came out. People weren't "wowed".
Flagships are hardly about wow factor (stylingwise). Look at LS430. In case of Mercedes, the C-class, E-class and the S-class are virtually identical, and so it the case with Audi. BMW is heading in the same direction although the company tried to break the mold and move from a conservative styling (last generation 7-series) to the new aggressive look that everybody seems to hate.
Sometimes I wonder what people want.
And cars within the same family (same automaker) are bound to have common cues. It is virtually unavoidable. Better to use one's own cues than copy it (like many do).
The photo of the RL on the previous page I don't like it. It looks like a dud. The front end says Infinti I35 all over it which looks ok but nothing stunning. A hint of Pontiac GTO in there too on the front end. Just nothing eye catching. I didn't like the 04 TL at first but now I like it. Thats just a prototype photo of the RL. We all now how Honda likes to play with people's minds before a car is released so we don't know if thats what the 05 RL is going to look like or not.
I’ve seen people comment that it looks like an Accord. Some said Catera. A few have said Millenia. You say it looks like Infiniti I35. So I assume I35 looks like Millenia, which in turn looks like Catera and the Caddy looked like an Accord (going in reverse of their launch order). Interesting, isn’t it?
I see this style as inoffensive, while retaining familiar cues that I have come to expect from Honda/Acura. The tail lamp rear is reminiscent of Acura CL (first generation), the overall rear profile resembles the direction that Acura adopted in the late 90s (first generation TL and RL and carried into last CL), as well as in Honda Accord coupe (in its current form, which I always thought took the cues from 1996+ TL and 2001 CL).
The front is a smoother version of the current RL’s (which I happen to like). Updated nicely, without deviating much.
is a better representative of the frontal style, and it has “Acura” written all over it.
And while Im at it... a close up shot of the
That's your opinion.
To think that the current '04 RL actually competes with any sports sedans is stupid, don't you think?
All the Acura sales people I've talked to says that the RL is aimed at competing with the Lexus LS.
By the way, excuse me for that fatal "L" I accidentally attached to the "i" for the BMW 540i.
Ever heard of mistypes?
Perhaps you spell everything correct 100% of the time, but most of us don't.
Nothing about those pics makes me want to even test drive it. Looks like a souped-up Accord.
Tragic and pathetic excuse for a top-of-the-line luxury vehicle.
I don't know. Maybe the new RL will be the middle of the line like the BMW 5-Series or GS and a new Acura top-of-the-line will appear as a 2006 model to compete with the LS430 and BMW740.
I for one perfer the looks of the LS430 to any sports car or sedan and the looks of the 04 RL to the new RL or TL or TSX.
To me, flagship needs to be pure luxury. Mid models like the GS, 5-series, etc. can go for more styles and sporty.
But if the RL now competes with the GS300 and 530, etc., I guess it better have style and sport.
Different strokes for different folks.
I’m clueless as to why you would even start a discussion regarding 2004 RL being a “sport sedan”. Part of its failure (in recent years anyway) was that it was not, and the other part being that it didn’t get freshened up couple of times like its competition did.
2005 RL is different, at least on paper. This RL may be comparable to the LS430 in some ways
- cabin size
- both are flagships for their respective brands
The RL may actually have more standard features than the base LS430, even though it would cost thousands less. It would be ridiculous to expect direct competition at 25% discount.
You appear to be a big fan of LS430. Not sure what moves you about its styling. That car does nothing for me.
Oh, and the next GS looks like eggplant on wheels to me. :-) Okay, that was a little harsh, but it is too bloated to my tastes.
The RL, is tighter. Nothing outstanding about the styling, but that is how flagships are styled. Just think the new BMW 7-series versus the old. What do you think? Understated styling is the key.
"I’m clueless as to why you would even start a discussion regarding 2004 RL being a “sport sedan”."
I was too, but I think I've figured it out. His logic goes like this. If the '04 RL was not targeted at the LS430, then it must have been aimed at the GS300 (a sport sedan). It's an either/or fallacy, but an understandlable one.
FWIW, I think the '04 RL had no true competition. It was in a niche by itself. I expect many of the customers who bought them compared it with fully loaded ES300 sedans. The RL had similar equipment, a similar price tag, but was bigger on the inside.
Oh well, I can live with the boring styling as long as all the features are right. SH-AWD is definitely going to bring me into the showroom to testdrive it. Anyways, I think it will compete well against the LS430 since the LS is even more plain.
I've written it before and Robertsmx just hinted at it, but perhaps an example is in order.
So far, in this thread alone, we've learned that the new RL look like the TL, Accord coupe, Corolla, S-Class, 7 Series, CL-S, old 2.3CL, I35, and the Pontiac GTO.
In other forums, I've seen comparisons with most of the above, plus the following: Catera, several Hyundais, Millenia, Accord sedan, Legend, Mazda6, old Camry, Phaeton, Q45, and IS300.
It's a bloomin' chameleon!
BTW, for all of you trying to describe the taillights, look at the last
. (There's another one!) =)
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