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What DOES cause a duplicate post is to refresh/reload the screen after posting a message BEFORE going somewhere else. That's because of the way Web Crossing handles stuff -- there are codes in the URL that indicate what you are trying to do. If the code to "post a message" is present and you reload that URL, then whatever you just posted will repost regardless of the fact the message box was empty when you reloaded.
Dumb, I know, but it is what it is.
If you post a message, then click on a link like "Sedans" or anything that takes you somewhere else and THEN come back you can refresh/reload all you want without duplicating your message.
As long as you are logged in, you can ALWAYS delete any message you posted. There is no time limit on that.
As you mentioned, you can edit your post for about 30 minutes after you posted - that's the only thing that is time-limited.
Before I go the Hertz route though, I'm giving incentives a chance to be offered first. I figure even Lincoln is going to pony up some more incentives w/all the competition gearing up for the 2004 models, GM's incentive wars and the like. Lincoln dealers are offering the "base" 6 for about $27,500 after rebate so how much more expensive can an LS8 w/power lumbar & 6 in dash CD player be in the next few months?
Regarding the new design, with all the changes in management at Ford, will the new LS look like it was done by a committee?
Some of us aren't, given that the manual is no longer available.
The LS is a pretty nice package. It's a shame it wasn't marketed better over the past three years, and the dealer network isn't exactly a plus.
That said, if you're in the market for a sedan with power and handling, with an automatic transmission, the LS certainly ought to be in the running.
The styling thing is totally subjective. Witness the CTS vs Lincoln LS (for the three people on the planet who have actually done such a comparison & published the results) "discussion." The CTS people seem to not recognize that the LS is a player, and the LS people expend a remarkable number of calories taking shots at the CTS's styling.
I guess it's called competition. May the best vehicle win.
cwz
I have seen cars like mine as low as 18.5k. But I know my car and how well it has been maintained. I also just did new tires and brakes so I would hate to throw away that money...
I have had all of the usual warranty issues fixed/replaced like the rear view mirror, Rear power windows, fogged headlights, tranny flash. The only problem I ever had was the tranny went out but they fixed it under warranty.
I love the car and decided to keep it. I am adding a Magnaflow exhaust. In 3 years I will probably get a new LS (depending on how I like the new style and performance).
I am asking because I like the Xenon look of acura, infiniti, BMW, etc. I am not paying for an '03 that will drop like a rock for that feature. Looking at '02 Sport with 12k miles for only 26k.
I drove an Acura TLS and I like the performance but don't like how it fits me. Pesonal issue. Otherwise I would have thrown in a TL S-type too.
How does the I35 and LS8 compare. Can get '02's with low mileage for each. What's your take.
I have a 2002 LS8 with 19,000 miles and have had no problems. I know several people with LSes with 60,000-105,000 and they are equally as happy.
Several options aren't available w/ the 6 that are in the 8 (trip computer, etc.), but otherwise, the cars are identical. The six can be a dog off the line when it's new, but much better when broken in. In all cases, it's a real pleasure at high speed. This car (with the six or a diesel) was originally intended to compete in Europe, with the high-speed freeways, braking and inspection requirements. For reasons that we don't need to burden this board with, there are no LS's in Europe. It's a shame.
Get one. You'll like it.
Care to be more specific on just how dramatically different the LS is as a "poor cousin" to the S-Type? Just how big do you expect a sport sedan's rear seat to be? At least the LS's is bigger than the bloody 5-Series.
To add to what others have said, the LS and the Jag S-type were designed as platform-mates. So under the skin they're practically the same, although the Jag does have some computer-controlled suspension components which the LS does not. But they both have Formula-1 inspired aluminum suspension hardware and the cornering and stability is on a par with Beemers.
The drivetrain in the V6 LS uses a brand-new 5Speed automatic transmission that's not used in any other car (except the Jag) AFAIK. It's a great tranny, even if it had some growing pain issues. If you get one, make sure it has the latest 'flash' software. The engine, again in both the Jag and the LS, is a version of the Duratec V6, which is well regarded as to reliability. In the LS, it was tuned for 210HP in '00 and '01, upped to 220HP in '02. The Jag version always had more muscle due to the addition of variable cam timing, which the LS V6 got in '03 and now makes 235HP.
I hope this helps.
I see the problem with the LS sales situation as three fold:
1. The exterior styling is very bland. Lincoln tries to portray this as an asset, but I don't see it. The LS basically blends in with a sea of mid-sized vehicles on the road today. There are people who want luxury without being noticed, but I'd guess there are more who do want a distinctive look in their luxury car.
2. Unlike with the CTS, the LS is not part of an overall brand strategy for Lincoln. I was amused to read a Ford exec talking about how LS owners wanted more performance and that is why they made some of the changes for the 04. Is Lincoln a performance division? No. That seems a bit anti-thetical to their "understated elegance" theme. This leaves the LS as a bit of a [non-permissible content removed] stepchild in the lineup of trucks and taxicabs. Which is a shame since it is such a good car by all accounts.
3. The marketing and positioning of the LS itself hasn't been that great. For example, Ford wants to market it as a performance vehicle (see the latest print ads claiming the LS outperforms the 540i), yet it killed off the manual edition and elected not to build a tuner version. I'm not sure Ford knows what to do with this car.
Ford apparently has plans for Lincoln going forward around new vehicles on the Mazda6 platform. We'll see where this leads, but I'm not hopeful that they will build a brand and a lineup that supports a car like the LS. The sad fact is that this car would probably be better off in somebody else's lineup.
The faithful will tell you the high-performance version may still happen, but no one expects to see a manual anytime soon. Ford Motor Company's financial woes I'm sure enter into the situation, as well. GM has money & is spending it on the CTS, and the sales figures seem to indicate that it's working quite well, so far.
Some of us are very much in a "hide and watch" mode. So long as my LS holds up another 2 - 4 years, it's all academic to me.
I like the LS since it is agressive and very masculine and yet it is STEALTHY. Interestinly I do not like the Stype, too feminine.
I have ridden in a CTS and there is absolutly no comparison to the LS in terms of poise, handling, stability, and quality. The CTS sounded like a tin can and did not feel substantial like the LS. Just shutting the doors will tell you which is more solid. Not to mention that the CTS is ugly. The guy that had it has had terribly problems with water leaks completely filling up his rear passenger floorboard.
The new CTS with the Vette engine is interesting but I just could not see it in my garage.
http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/nissan/2003/murano/home.shtml
Heh heh
http://www.caddyedge.com/
The new 7 series did have its problems. However, with BMW in general, if you're driving a Bimmer, there's no doubt that anyone on the road who sees you will know you're driving a Bimmer. The same can't be said of the LS.
As for the CTS, I'm of two minds on the styling. I like the front end actualy (though would make some tweaks). It is the rear that I'm not a big fan of. The CTS is selling hot now, but only time will tell if it has staying power or if next year this time the Caddy Art & Science look will be yesterday's news.
But while on the subject, and as my garage contains a 2000 MTX LS and a 2003 FX45, I need to make a comment on two previous posts concerning the Murano.
The Nissan Murano is built on the FWD Altima platform, has IMHO slightly leading edge styling, and so-so performance with it's wierd CVT tranny.
The FX platform is the FM RWD chassis from the 350Z, G35 Sedan and Coupe. The FX35/45 have an AWD system from the Japanese home-based Skyline, that only works to 13 mph. It is not intended for off-road, and it's only purpose is to put down the power to all 4 wheels under acceleration. At 13mph, it's 100% to the rear wheels.
Don't mistake this car with an SUV. The FX45 is faster than any SUV tested at 6.3 0-60, and in the same C&D test in 02/03, it also pulled .87 on the skidpad. The secret is that it's 315 hp and 329 ft/lbs of torque only have to haul around about 500 lbs more weight than an LS.
The FX45 suspension is not for weenies. 265/50/20
tires and Sport suspension mean no roll and a stiff ride. I cannot slide this car like I do in my LS. But then, I probably don't need to.
I may take this thing to a Solo 2 here in San Diego and see what AWD does in the slow twisties.
I still enjoy my LS MTX. The FX45 is a beast. It will not appeal to the masses. It's too cutting edge in looks and performance, and Joe Average wants something that hauls more, rides softer, and costs less.
The FX gets more looks than the H2, and at 10 mpg, dismal 0-60 and .70g, slit-like windows, the only thing the H2 has going for it is a massive tax credit available for industrial and farm machinery that exceeds 6000 lbs. Tax credits are no fun to drive.
Of course, "looks" are subjective, but watch out. The FX is just part of a trend that includes the Murano, the Chrysler Crossfire, the FX and a new Lexus crossover coming soon that looks alot like the FX.
I wanted a vehicle with good performance numbers, the wife needed an auto tranny, and the kids wanted the DVD system and all the toys.
If you want performance with an auto tranny, you need lots of HP.
I still miss the shifting of a Manual. The FX has crisp shifts and a second gate with +/- but the control/timing with a manual just can't be duplicated perfectly. Maybe with some practice, anticipating the input lag. My problem is that power shifting with this beast puts me in ticket territory very fast. My only hope is that the cops think this is really just a wierd-looking Suburban, and not a vehicle that eats 4.6 X-5's and ML AMGs for breakfast.
When Ford puts the Cobra drivetrain in the LS (an easy transplant), I'll be waiting at the dealer's door. You don't need "tuner" editions. Ford has all the hardware now. Just a longer driveshaft, especially if the 04 Mustang gets the DEW Lite chassis (with the Cobra LSD pumpkin please!)
I bought a new 2003 V8 Premium Sport with all features.
Love the car.
I guess you are all stuck with me for a few more years!!!
What are the most significant pluses & minuses of your '03 vs. '00?
new 4/50 warranty and free maintenance up to 36k miles. 60 month 0%.
Wonderful car.
Minuses: The wood on the steering wheel and shift knob are not to my liking as much as the all leather. The chrome spoke wheels are still growing on me. I think the 2000 super silver wheels are some of the nicest looking wheels ever made.
The electronic by wire throttle is harder to get used too. It is not as linear as a regular throttle. Very on or off. This is an issue that many have mentioned and hopefully Lincoln is refining and we can get a flash update...
The cost of a new car is also a minus. More than twice what it would have cost to buy out my 2000 lease... BUT, my wonderful 2000 was not worth what the residual was and they would not deal. Also had less than half the warranty left and no free maintenance. At 22k (after taxes, etc) financed for 3 years with interest payments were close enough to the 03 to make it worth the switch (in my demented mind. OK I know I am fooling myself. Clark Howard always says it is bad to buy a new car. I can't help it. It's a disease I have)
Had dealer put on four of the the Pilot Sport A/S's, same size. Installed, with balancing, they were $228 each. About same as Tirerack.com including installation. Pleased with that. Plus when I go in for regular maintainence now, dealer can continue to rotate also w/o me making another stop. Nice thinking about & time savings.
So far have just driven home them home 5-7 miles. Ride feels like new again. Maybe not, but certainly feel a big improvement. Clearly hadn't realized the deterioration. Also had alignment done & thus don't know which helped the most.
Want to thank everyone on here that reco'd the Pilot A/s's. This board was a big help on this (and other things.).
?: What is the wear experience are people having with the Pilot A/s's? Given I got the 32-35,000 miles on the Firehawks, what should I look forward to on the Pilots? Thanks.
P.S. While I had several of the production startup issues on my 2000 that this board warned me of, I've really enjoyed my LS & defintiely would consider when I buy again - in 3-4 yrs. I'm a buy & drive-into-the-ground kind of guy.
I've heard that it's important to keep these rotated, and to watch them somewhat carefully. One of the LS faithful put a set of A/S's on and noticed quite a bit of wear in the centre of the rear tires within 10 or 15K. We all concluded that it was unusual.
General consensus is that these are excellent tires, but watch them, and report any "issues" to the dealer as soon as you notice them.
Enjoy.
I found out that an outfit called PIE makes a neat gizmo the plus into the back of the factory head unit and creates RCA-type aux. inputs. It costs about $70 and the sound is now great. It even allows my factory integrated cell phone to work as before.
Now, to listen to XM, I simply push the CD button twice and instead of 'CD' being displayed on the screen, 'DJ' is displayed.
You can find them at www.xmfanstore.com and for Lincolns and other Ford products, the model # is FDRN-AUX. I understand that it also works with the Alpine unit and the glove box CD head unit. You can also use it for MP3 players, TV sound, etc.
Love the car! Best "all round" set of wheels I've owned to date, and will be replaced with the '03 or '04 LSV8 at the appropriate time unless I get a "senior's moment", which I'm not planning. Follow the board faithfully, and enjoy it almost as much as I enjoy my LS!
Switching back to "lurk mode"...
Am I the only one holding out for an SVT LS with a supercharger and a 6 speed? When is Ford going to realize that the people that would buy an S-Type R are completely different from the crowd that would snap up a high performance LS?
Wonder why the MX's are OE versus the A/S's?
I am on record as looking for such a vehicle. But I would not suggest holding out for one.
I believe that there are actually some people that would consider either / both. (Me, for instance.) And given a choice between an LS Prem Sport with a 6 speed and 4.2 motor and an S-Type Sport, I would choose the LS - every time.
(Not JUST because of Jag's J-Gate, but . . .)
I have noticed that the new Jag XJ (now with the 4.2 and 6-speed) posts EPA highway mileage est. of 28 (yes, 28) MPG. And the weight is very similar to the LS. The '03 S-Type 4.2 is listed at 26 - odd.
Anyway - this is clearly a marketing decision by FLM - as opposed to an engineering decision. As such, I hold out little hope that the R, the 4.2 or the 6-speed will be offered in the LS - because if they were going to do so (given the sales of the LS), they'd have done it by now.
- Ray
Hoping to be proven wrong . . .
One thing I found particularly interesting was how quickly the LS recovered after bouncing off the curbings at high speeds. One 'bounce' and the dampers quickly brought the car under control. Impressive, given the excellent ride quality.
Just my opinion.
- Ray
Opinions always free . . .
What's also left unanswered is why such a car is in the Lincoln stable. The original concept was that the LS was going to compete with BMW & Audi on their home turf, plus kick butt back in the states. The reality is that they folded like a cheap tent and are very happy to market 99+% of the vehicles to the Lincoln faithful, who have not a clue what a suspension on a car even is, let alone that the LS has a good one. Senior Lincoln/Ford management has decided that they're "only" competing with Cadillac (not especially well, some would point out), as opposed to the world as a whole (including those pesky European & Asian brands).
Either way, the concept that Lincoln is a performance brand is going to be a pretty hard sell. Given how the LS has been handled to date, it's not too much of a stretch to conclude that the Lincoln LS team (and the 70 enthusiasts who wish otherwise) will eventually succomb to reality -- this car appears to be an orphan.
The good news is that the older LS's are coming off lease and/or are being traded in -- a whole new demographic is finding itself in possession of an LS. It's interesting to watch, though I wonder what the Lincoln marketing folks had in mind while I do so.
That aside, let's all hide and wait for that 350 - 400 hp LS with a 6-speed (manual) that will validate the Lincoln LS as a legitimate entry into the high-performance, high-dollar performance sedan world.
Don't hold your breath.
As others have said, I'd love to be wrong.
Meanwhile, Ford starved everything else they had in the Lincoln showroom, in favor of "redefining the brand, LS style", so the Town Car gets no resources, the Continental is discontinued, (not altogether a bad decision), and the Blackwood gets an enormous investment to become the Edsel of the 00's. Sheeeesh.
Only the Navigator and the LS have received any attention of late, and now the Aviator, which is great, but has been made a little on the cheap here and there. I'm a loyal Lincoln fan - but I'm not sure they know where they're headed, and when my need for the big SUV is over, in about 3 years, and I'm looking for a nice old man's sedan to drive around, will they be there for me? I don't know. The LS is too young for me, the Town Car is too neglected and is outclassed by the Cadillac now, no Continental replacement yet - What's an old Ford guy to do?
If Lincoln had been run like Caddy is we would have seen a new Mark IX based on the LS (2 door). We would have seen a baby Lincoln to compete with the 3 series and CTS. This could have been shared with Jag Xtype off the mondeo platform. The Town car would have been thouroughly updated and refined to become a reasonably inexpensive competitor to the 7 series/S Class. Then they could have branched out with a nice convertible sports type car like Caddy is. Finally a performance version of the LS/Mark (SVT,etc).
As it stands the only thing Lincoln is getting right is the SUV's and the LS (with the exception of LS marketing). Caddy went racing in the high brow snooty Le Mans series with a beautiful Riley and Scott chassis and a body that evoked the Art and Science Design theme. No they did not ever finish that well but the cars were used in many advertisements thus establishing Caddy as a performance brand (as opposed to "travel well").
I dearly love the LS and I have been a Ford guy through and through: My wife is on her 2nd Windstar, I had an Escort GT, Mustang, 3 Taurus SHO's in a row, a 2000 LS, and now the 2003 LS.
I am not a caddy or GM fan in the least but they are starting to do some things right.
What I am afraid of is I may have nowhere to go within Ford/Lincoln (unless I switch to Jag) to get the follow on to my 2003 LS. And if I am going to consider Jag I may as well venture out and test the Deutsch Iron.....