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Good Luck and keep us posted as to what the solution is..
Regards,
Airwolf
I love the run to Austin as I get to blow the cob webs out on the way down.
Ray
However, there was virtually no trace of a Cadillac CTS at the event. The ONLY 1 CTS at the event was a static display on Sunday outside the Cadillac hospitality tent in the paddock area. The official race vehicles were the Escalade SUV and Escalade EXT pickup truck. The pace car was a Seville STS.
The only Cadillacs that raced were the 2 LMP900 class enterants, one of which had a mild crash and finished well off the pace, and the other managed a disappointing 4th place finish (well off the pace of the podium finishers).
Interesingly (to me anyway) was that these two cars were constantly backfiring all along the course (usually whenever the driver was changing gear). No other cars in any category behaved in this way. Cadillac should be quite embarassed by this showing in "their" race.
The report was that Cadillac was going to drop its LMP900 racing program, which has been pretty much an embarassement. Ususally auto manufacturers tout their racing successes in advertisements, Cadillac put the cart before the horse and ran endless TV an print ads about their LMP900 race cars which have had a disimal racing record to put it politely. If Caddy had first spent their racing advertising budget on racing they may have had something to crow about by now.
As far as the CTS goes, the Autoextremest report was that for 2003 Caddy would be racing CTS's in the GT class (I think) competing with Porsche 911 and BMW 3xx production based cars. Personally I think they have a pretty good challenge ahead of them as unless they can get some rules concessions (like BMW did with their V-8 powered 3 series race cars they ran last year that never made it to the street) the rather large CTS will struggle against the smaller lighter competition.
The good news is that it looks like Lincoln delivered on about 90% of what the majority of LS owners were looking for on the '03 LS, plus added a few slick things we never thought of.
The bad news is that it looks like the manual transmission is dead. Appears to me that the Lincoln's strategy is to emphasize the luxury aspects while retaining the great driving and handling characteristics of the LS and not try to compete head to head with Euro Sport Sedans.
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=718&press_subsection_id=421&make_id=93
I give Cadillac at least some credit for sponsoring this type of event. I only wish Lincoln would attempt to break into racing in some form to better tout the abilities/attributes of the LS.
It was also interesting to note that, the Audi Factory/Team Joest enterage had several Audi A6 4.2 liter V8 w/quattro cars at the site to get their VIPs from place to place. There were plenty of people at the event that can both afford and appreciate upscale, high performance automobiles. While Cadillac and Lincoln may not have a long or deep racing heritage, their chief foreign competition does and it DOES influence a segment of the buying population . . . particularly the 30-50ish affluent enthusiast crowd.
Like a kid waiting for Santa,
Russ
And now let us have a moment of silence for the V6 manual LS. I bet the price on the 2002 manuals (the few that are out there) probably just went up.
On the good side, the 3.58 rear end reappears in the V8. That plus the extra torque and corrected 2nd gear ratio should put it in the mid 6's 0-60.
I'll put my order in now for a 2003 V8 LSE Silver/charcoal - in two more years, that is. It should be around $25k or so by then.
Hmmm. Kind of applies to the LS too...
I would really like to find out what total Manual production was, and by year, for historical purposes. My 83 Toyota Cressida was also a "Manual Orphan", killed after 3 years as well.
I still get people who can't believe it has a manual.
Maybe it will be a classic in 50 years, and a new Jay Leno will collect one and talk about it in Popular Mechanics as he does with all kinds of anomaly cars every month now.
If any of you fellows hear if the last Manual LSes sell for more or are cleared out at firesell prices, please report.
Thanks and someone should play "Taps" now.
It had to happen.
However the McLaren boys are into the 6 speed man so all is not dead. The 6 spd will be true High Performance!
And it's still possible for Lincoln to put a 6-spd manual in the factory hi-po LS, especially since the 2003 Cobra has one with a (rated at 390 but rumoured to be well over) 400 hp supercharged 4.6L modular motor. Should bolt right up to the 400 hp 5.0L modular motor rumoured for the LS.
Stan - I think manual sales for the first two years was around 1600 (3%) but dropped to 0.5% (of a much smaller overall sales rate) or about 200 this year. It's no wonder they had to drop it.
Lincoln did not HAVE TO DROP IT; they did however choose to let it die from a lack of promotion. Of the few people who have even heard of the LS the vast majority think it is a small TC not a BMW challenger. Only we few motor heads even know a manual LS exists . . . UMMM, make that existed! I'm not surprised that it was dropped but it could have been, and SHOULD have been, a much different story. I'm sorry to say that the Infiniti G35 is looking better and better.
"Why would you want a manual transmission on a Lincoln?"
"It's been discontinued." (DEC 99 timeframe)
"Special order only, 50% deposit required."
"You really don't want one of them because they will have no resale value."
"No one buys a luxury car with a MTX."
And on and on. The dealers wield a lot of power and they voted to ax the MTX LS many times and in many ways. It's a real shame because the extra torque and the much wider torque band of the '03 V6 would have made a huge improvement in the performance and drivability of the V-6 MTX.
I drove an '00 MTX LS and decided against it because I felt the lack of bottom end torque took away too much from the driving enjoyment for me (remember on of my other cars is a throwback 4 speed MTX muscle car with 5.8L of torque). I was holding out hope that the '03 V-6 LS would still have a MTX but....
Drive-by-wire, bedazzles6, electronic throttle control is just one part of what would be considered true drive-by-wire. In a full drive-by-wire system none of the controls would be mechanically connected to anything that they operate. This would include the throttle, steering, trannie and brakes. Looks like we're 1/2 of the way there.
From the '03 LS specs, I would love to have one, but since I need to make a decision by Sept 30, and the '03 LS won't hit the dealer lots until December, I'm thinking of getting something else in September, that I can turn over to my wife in a year, and get a '03 LS a year from now when they're old hat and selling in the bargain basement bin, like the 02's are today.
I'd hoped for improved performance (& many of the other amenities just announced for the automatics) in a manual sports sedan meant to compete with European and Japanese vehicles.
What I have is an underpowered manual sports sedan with a number of first-year "issues." Even at that, it's pretty decent, handles really well and has incredible brakes. Faint praise perhaps but, for the umpteenth time: "happiness = reality - expectations." I had quite high expectations.
Oh well. . .
The AMERICAN consumer has spoken to Lincoln about their transmission preference, and Lincoln has responded in an commensurate, and appropriate manner.
Well Done Lincoln.
Now if we could only do something about the lame "Travel Well" slogan as it has been applied to the LS . . .
Of the 0.8 percent of all LS buyers that want a manual, how many will be priced out by the McLaren? Also, wouldn't other enthusiasts be attracted to the brand? I bet McLaren sales will be better than current manual LS6 sales.
I'm also a believer that the market drives pricing. The McLaren LS will be priced such that both Lincoln and McLaren meet their goals.
http://media.ford.com
Go to Jaguar
then "Click here to view S-TYPE press kit"
then, "Download Word document, including Technical Specs"
Its all there.
In my own particular circumstances, my wife is the prime driver of our LS, and she (unfortunately) never learned how to "row the gears". I'm not willing to "learn her" in my new "Vette, and I don't know of any rental agencies who have any manual tranny equipped cars in their fleets, so what's an enthusiast to do?
As a side note, on of my colleagues at work is in the market for a new "sport sedan". I'm trying to convince him to get an LS. I took him for a ride in mine, and he was very impressed. He's not quite in a position to buy new, so he's looking for a clean, 2000-2001. He's also looking at Infiniti, but ironically, whatever he gets, he wants a MANUAL!!
Maybe Jag's not having too much success selling manuals, either.
He also had two Jag S Rs; one was sold pretty quick.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe the majority of buyers spending close to 40 or 50K+ for a sports luxury sedan (excluding BMW) don't want to shift for themselves? Does anyone know if Audi sells a large percentage of manuals?
$56K is a 540i price. So someone wanting a manual 4-door, V-8 sport sedan and is willing to fork out $56K will already be driving a 540i. The 545i will have more power than the 540i at supposedly the same price, so the McLaren LS has its competition at the high-end and the low-end with the G35 (assuming the manual version arrives next year).
The McLaren LS will attract yet more FIRST time Lincoln buyers as well as getting people trading their LS6 manual. Will Lincoln lose some of its existing customer base? Sure, it's inevitable . . . many people try new vehicles every few years anyway, so why should the LS be any different? We can speculate all we want on the McLaren pricing, but I'd be willing to bet that it will offer the same sort of "value" relative to the BMW540 as the 2000 LS8 offered relative to the BMW528 two years ago.
It won't take much for Mclaren to exceed the sales numbers Lincoln generated for the manual LS6, though I doubt Lincoln or McLaren, based on the current manual transmission sales numbers, expect to sell more manual transmissions.
Let's withhold judgement on Lincoln until we see if the little G35 keeps it's manual after 3 years.
For Lincoln, Cadillac and probably Infiniti, I would bet they considered the manual transmission to be a marketing expense not an engineering expense.
If you have the financial resources to drop unthinkable amounts of money on your special tuner LS, go for it. For the rest of us with budget ceilings and a desire to get the most out of our car purchase for the money spent, the only choice is a real factory model. I love cars, I love thinking about driving one of those super hot specials, but unless a rich relative dies and I'm at the top of their will, I win Powerball, or NASDAQ hits 6000 again, real soon, I will never even consider something like the McLaren LS.
It is true that MTX's are loosing ground in Europe. Blame it on affluence, improved auto mileage. Expect MTX sales in Europe to really take a nose dive when CVT transmissions become mainstream as they can deliver almost the same mileage as MTX's.
We have to face facts here, 80% or more of drivers don't really like cars & trucks, with probably 50% or more disliking them. Cars & trucks are just a means to get from place A to B for most drivers. Luxury & status is king over performance.
Think of manual transmissions like sail boats. To me owning a sail boat is about the stupidest purchase one could make. Let's face it sailing is completely obsolete as a form of transportation. However, there is a small segment of the industrialized world's population who are sailing fanatics. Fanatical, yes, practical, no.
Sailing is nothing more than a hobby. Shifting gears is same thing too, nothing more than a hobby.
Hey, don't pick on me, as stupid as I know shifting gears for myself is, I love to do it.
He made every point I thought of as I read that I should be the first in line to go buy a car which I'm sure would provide more servicing entertainment that any number of Audis & BMW's. My dealer can't figure out which rear window regulator to put in -- couldn't wait to turn him loose with a supercharger and an engine with more heat load than it was ever designed for.
I guess it's now time to hide and watch, as always.
If you want a MTX in an LS . . . ITS AVAILABLE!!!! Put your money where your mouth is! If you get a better perceived deal through another manufacturer, go for it, but I think Lincoln is going in the right direction on this.
As far a reliability of the V8 engine when coupled with a supercharger . . . hasn't Jaguar been doing this with this very engine for years? Since I don't follow the particulars of Jaguar, I'm unsure of the details, but I'm positive the 3.9l V8 engine used in the LS has long been coupled with a supercharger in various Jaguars over the past 10 or so years. If anything, I would expect the McLaren package to be more durable.
Geez, is it just me, or do people just like to critize?
I'm sure that's how things improve over time.
Signing off.
Lincoln is already in that price pressure and has made a business decision that probably would be made by any one of us also.
I agree the McLaren MTX version is not really a replacement for the V6 MTX LS. It's too bad since that model really seemed to be the thing to have for handling situations.
But in Lincoln's press release "effortless performance" was the heading for the engine changes. I don't think that mindset and MTX go together.
Why should Lincoln, or any manufacterer subsidize the MTX market? At least the option exists. As far as pricing is concerned, some folks here are already counting themselves out BEFORE final pricing has even been set. Seems to be a lot of premature hand wringing to me.
With that logic, Ford has actually provided a great track handling Mustang all along (not just recent SVT). People just had to go to Kenny Brown or Griggs or...
The only tuner options I've ever heard of for Mustangs is Roush and Saleen. Both of these tuners can be ordered/purchased through select Ford dealerships. Can the Kenny Brown or Griggs or any other be obtained through a Ford dealership?
If L-M offered the MTX as a seperate, stand alone option for $300-$500, like in the "old days", the enthusiast might stand a chance of being able to afford/buy one.
However, given that the ##@%^!! EPA sees one engine with two transmissions options as two completely different and seperate cars, therefore requiring two seperate emmissions certifications, the "bean counters" just won't let it happen unless thousands of units can be sold. The cost of certifying an MTX that sells only 500-600 units a year just won't fly. This is the territory where the "tuners" fill in the gaps, albeit at $20K over the normal car.
Despite the fact that most of us on this board are crazy about our LSs, are car enthusiasts, and in my case won't by a RWDer, the vast majority of those walking into a L-M dealership are looking for a cushy "transportation module". If an MTX was the only thing available, they'd die right on the spot. And, I'm sure that crowd probably doesn't even realize or even care what wheels cause the car to move.
Guys, we're fighting an uphill battle!! I'll be quiet now............
My point was that you indicated Lincoln provides the option ("they offer it through a specialty shop"). That is not the case. Independent business people, who happen to be Lincoln dealers, partner with McLaren. This is the same as the Roush and Saleen options. To give the manufacturer credit for these options is where I have the disagreement.
John
There will also be opportunities for people to return their '03 LS to selected dealerships to undergo McLaren modifications after initial delivery. Modifications of this type will also apply to people that own '00 - '02 MY LSs that wish to purchase intake/exhaust, and suspension/wheel/brake mods.
Not to beat a dead horse but many of us did want a manual and our money was with our mouths, we just wanted to drive one before buying it.. That is why the Manual failed and I think Lincoln and the Dealers are responsible for not stocking the product... Now the pitch worked, that got me in the showroom and I bought the LS V8 Sport instead, Just like your baby down to the color.. and Window Tint...
I have always wondered if it was just a marketing ploy... Never saw any motivation to really sell the automobile, just had it available, and Pitched it in Ads. Unfortunately those ads only reached a small segment of enthusiasts otherwise many a V6 Manual would have been sold had people known and Dealers Stocked..
I finally drove a V6 Manual (Besides Jim Roger's at Mania One)at a dealership in New Mexico on the 4th of July. 3 Years after my initial quest for one in August of '99. Boy it sounded nice with the new '01 and '02 Exhaust. Poor thing had been on lot for 3 months...(I am sure nobody that is an enthusiast knows about it). BTW I live in Dallas and not one V6 Manual between here and Las Cruces (about 700 miles away) How are you supposed to sell it or even get the word out?
Regards,
Victor
A few short years later in 1984 the 175 HP turbo-charged SVO Mustang debuts for $15,600.
Those who were there with me please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.
Tom (aka pony)
Go To:
http://www.mclarenperformance.com/news/index.html
or:
From C&D
McLaren Performance Lincoln LS
Lincoln took the wraps off a high-performance LS, a sedan tweaked by McLaren Performance Technologies (not the McLaren group that you see in the F1 paddock). The special Lincoln is powered by a modified version of the LS's 3.9-liter V-8 engine. MPT bolted on an Eaton supercharger supplied by Magnuson, along with twin intercoolers incorporated. The result is roughly 350 horsepower and 350 lb-ft of torque. Lincoln estimates 0-to-60 mph in 6.2 seconds and the quarter-mile in 14.2 seconds. Teaming with the blown motor is a Tremec six-speed manual transmission—a first in an LS sedan. A re-calibrated suspension lowers the LS approximately one inch, front and rear, while StopTech four-piston caliper brakes bring the car to a halt. For additional traction, the LS may be supplemented with McLaren's Gerodisc limited-slip differential, which is both torque and speed sensitive. The LS's sporty look is enhanced by 18" x 8" O-Z wheels shod with Michelin Pilot Sport tires, a perforated performance grille, xenon headlamps, custom taillights, a titanium trim package, and McLaren Performance "Speedy Kiwi" logos on the head restraints, floor mats, etc. The "Powered by McLaren Engines" Lincoln LS offerings will be available in three performance stages. Stage 1 features engine intake and exhaust enhancement and wheels and tires for $5,000. Choose Stage 2 and you get all the goodies in Stage 1 plus the supercharged and intercooled motor, and the brake and chassis upgrade—all that for $12,000. Stage 3 features one item—a six-speed manual transmission for a measly $6,000.