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Comments
That's a trick question. There are no conditions that would be favorable to the P5 and not favorable to the MP3.
That's ridiculous. Who does slalom tests in the snow? Maybe tirerack does to showcase their winter tires, but C&D doesn't.
I never said the conditions that C&D tested in were "unfair" to the MP3. I said they obviously were tested in different conditions.
"and now you are saying that we should stick to it?"
That doesn't make any sense.
Let me give you a good example:
John Force, funny car driver, pulls an altitude corrected 4.0 second 1/4 mile time at Bandimere International Raceway in Denver. Cruz Pedregon pulls a 3.9 in the quarter mile a week later at Brainerd International Raceway in Minnesota. Based on this information, did Cruz Pedregon "beat" John Force? NO!
I hope this clears things up a bit.
"minutes ago you said that C&D test conditions is unfair for the MP3 and now you are saying that we should stick to it? Yes? No?"
What in the HECK is that supposed to mean? I am sorry, but I have no clue as to the meaning of that post.
Given that both cars are stock, both are driven by the same driver in the same conditions (ALL things being equal), the MP3 will post a better slalom speed than the P5 EVERY SINGLE TIME. Period. End of story. If you don't agree, well...then...I don't know of a kinder way to say this....but...you're wrong.
I am sorry I brought it up. Although I didn't really. I never mentioned the MP3, I swear. How about this one, which handles better, a camel or a llama? (SATIRE)
My car handles bad now with the winter tires on. The difference between 50 series all seasons and 60 series winter sponges is pretty big. At least it rides better.....
fowler3
Meade
I took a quick s-curve pretty quickly the other day. I thought the rear was slipping out on me when I remembered it was just the TTL.
Dinu
"The patented Mazda Twin Trapezoidal Link (TTL) independent rear suspension works to deliver some of the benefits of 4-wheel steering, such as quick response when you change lanes or turn corners, but does it without added weight, complexity or cost. TTL automatically maintains the best alignment of the rear tires to the road surface, improving both stability and agility."
Would anyone care to elaborate further?
I'm as lost as I was before. I'll have to find something so we can understand this better.
Dinu
edit: according to Mazdausa.com, the RX-8 will have:
"Double-wishbone/Multi-link (front/rear)"
Click on the link for the RX-8...click specs...click on the bottom for suspension...you'll see.
"Double wishbone suspension at front
Multilink beam suspension at rear"
Seems to me you can use a multilink beam in a RWD car.
BTW, I do know the Spec-V is FWD.
it's the word beam that threw you off Mike. Mazda wouldn't dare to cheapen out their flagship sports car with a single/solid live axle rear end.
"For the rear, the Mazda RX-8 employs a new multi-link suspension system with five links per side. The longer links are optimally arranged to maintain correct geometry and keep the tires in steady contact with the road at all times. The coil springs are located below the floor to preserve interior space. Gas-filled mono-tube shocks are used back here, too, as well as a newly developed six-point rubber mount system for the subframe. The result is an impressive rear suspension that provides handling stability, ride comfort and low road noise."
I highly doubt this describes a SOLID BEAM axle setup :-)
I claim no knowledge here...just going on what I've read.
There is even a nice little flash thing on the Nissan Site showing how it keeps the tires on the road.
Not really. Take a look underneath a car with a solid twist beam axle. When I worked at the oil change joints, this is one of the things I noticed all the time when underneath a car. I found out about the Maxima's solid twist beam rear axle only after seeing it for myself. Maximas didn't used to have this cheap rear suspension design. I am not an expert on suspension geometry, but if you actually look at the suspension of a beam axle vehicle, it doesn't appear to be independent. Like I said before, there is a twist beam that runs between both rear wheels. I don't know how you could call that "independent".
In the current Protege, I think torsion on one of the links (I think it's the z-shaped one, not quiet a "Z", but it's got two bends) above a threshold level causes the rear suspension to slightly change its geometry, allowing the rear wheel to toe in or out to tighten your arc. It feels like the rear is slipping out, but then you feel traction again after the TTL has settled into the altered geometry.
After you back off the lateral load, the torsion link brings the rear suspension back in line. I haven't been able to feel this transition.
It's more visible under an MP3 as the active links are painted bright red (or am I thinking about pics of someone's customized Protege they posted?) instead of the regular black.
The 01 had a not so rev-happy 2.0
I think quality of the interior trim was improved in 01 (especially ES and P5!), along with more sound-proofing material added around the rear wheels.
The 01 should have larger tires.
I have a 2001 ES auto and I'm VERY happy with it.
I will buy a 2000 LX Touring (ES in the US) next year.
Personally I am very impressed with the PRO as this is my first Mazda vehicle. I will always shop Mazda 1st from now on.
Dinu
I have driven an 01 ES several times, and notice no difference in handling. But, as mentioned the 1.8 in the 00 is a much more willing to rev engine.
I have never thought about trading in my 00 ES 5-Speed since the day it was new.
However, in 15 months there may very well be a 6s in my driveway next to the MPV.
The above comments are opinions only. All standard disclaimers apply.
Mark.
Thanks again!
Now, the jury is out on which is really better, but I'm sure someone will be glad to assist you with informed opinions.