Chug-a-lug chug-a-lug chug-a-lug....yep, I've seen that commercial! It's very funny! I laugh every time I pass an SUV now....Chug-a-lug chug-a-lug chug-a-lug!!
Gas prices: We are sitting at $.94 here in Georgia.
Resale: I recently did a comparison of trade between a Civic and a Protege. The Civic was worth about $2500 more. But if you consider that the Protege is available with 0.0% interest and that the Protege probably cost less to begin with the Civic isn't that far ahead. Of course, if you are unable to get the 0.0% then I would lean back towards the Civic. And if you like to trade cars often I would stick with the Civic.
Speaking of LX 5-speeds we have a nice 2001 LX 2.0 5-speed in silver. It has 14,000 miles or so. Nice car. If I didn't have to have the 4 wheel disc brakes the LX would've been a nice choice. Although I kinda do like the spoiler and the fog lights on the ES.
Toronto Star posted monthly car sales again. This is all cars, including Accord, etc. Mazda Pro is #3 car in Canada, again. Civic is #1, Cavalier #2, Pro #3, Corolla #4. Noticed Sunbird is in the list so if they combined it with Cavalier it would be #1.
duh_ster: Wondering how you converted 0.56 /liter to US gal price. I get $2.12 a gallon. You notice it takes almost $30 to fill 'er up?
And now, a general comment: regarding Vocus and Meade. Good grief Meade, anybody can buy any car they can get off the lot, as far as I'm concerned. I'd appreciate it if yous guys would take your VW 2 Pro discussion to a comparison topic, $$$ discussion to a financing topic and let this group return to the 'lighter side'
The 2002 Civic EX is the first car I considered. Here's what I found in the testdrive and careful comparison.
Pluses: The Civic in, some respects, has better styling, a bit more modern. It's a matter of taste. Looks more like a girl's car.
Better fuel economy and holds more of its value.
Minuses: The interior fabrics look cheap and the seats are too hard. No thigh support, the seat cushion is too short for drivers 6-feet tall. Too much hard plastic trim.
Instrument panel cluster looks toy-like, has cheap look to the finish. Hard to see in some light.
Black steering wheel regardless of trim color. Doesn't go with any.
Rear seat too small and no leg room when front seat is set for tall drivers.
Acceleration no better with VTech. Engine whines but car doesn't move off quickly.
Mazda Protegé has none of these problems.
It's a nice looking small car that is sometimes confused with more expensive models -- Audi and Volvo.
Interior is nicely finished with soft-touch padding on dash and door panels. Color-keyed vinyl and fabrics. Large comfortable seats with good thigh support for tall drivers. Plenty of leg room up front.
Dash and instrument cluster look business-like with black (DX & LX) finish, white on SE. Center pod is the best I have seen on any car and there are some really wierd ones out there. Nice console with cup holders.
Peppy engine that takes right off when needed. Acceptable fuel economy.
The Civic has too many shortcomings to be a car I would consider regardless of its resale value. If you don't like a cars interior don't buy it just for its exterior styling -- you will quickly come to hate it. That's where you spend your time. The Civic is too road-toy-like overall. The Protegé is macho, the Civic is sissy.
Just like a new suit, the person most impressed with a new car is the buyer. It doesn't matter what others think.
Nissan Sentra--Rear end is UGLY, built in Mexico. Otherwise it's a pretty pleasing package.
VW Jetta--I really wanted one but the horrendous reliability record, expensive parts and steep price steered me away. I really like the interior though; it would give me something to look at while waiting for a tow truck. I think this car is currently the most beautiful piece of crap made. Sorry Vocus.
Toyota Corolla-I liked the S model, but it wasn't sporty enough. The rear seats don't fold and the red illumination on the instruments don't match the green illumination of the radio (a major oversight IMO). Looks too "economy car". On the plus side, it's probably one of the most reliable cars you can buy.
Toyota Camry V6 5sp---Too much money, too vanilla. Fast though.
I really like the black interior of the ES. The exterior looks are sharp too. Rear seat room is awesome for this class as is the handling. The reliability record is great, I used to have a turbo 626 with almost 150,000 miles on it and it ran great. It is made in Japan. It is economical to buy and to operate without boring you to death. To top it off, I qualified for 0% financing, 6 months defered payment, and a $400 college grad rebate. Right now, it is the perfect car for me.
Vocus--IMO, the problems with the Protege (CD player and squeeky seats) pale in comparison with windows falling into the doors, clunky doors, numereous rattles and noises, excessive oil consumption, poor dealership experiences, check engine lights, and high parts costs. It is true that all cars have problems. It is VERY true that some makes happen to have more incidents of problems than others. Face it, the VW Jetta doesn't have a stellar record, the Protege does. Your chances of ending up with a good car are much greater with the Protege.
fowler: While I like my Protege, overall I think the Civic is the better car. Why didn't I buy a Civic you ask? Mazda was offering 0.0% and after I had put wheels and fog lights on the Civic it would've been about $3000 more. This is a car I just wanted to bide my time until I can comfortably afford the Acura 3.2 Type S.
The Civics interior is like all Honda interiors. Simple and well designed. It had a quality feel to me and to me the materials used look much like the Jetta. I again, don't see a problem with the black steering wheel? What other color should it be? And I didn't notice more hard plasic trim in the Civic than in any other car in it's price class.
As far as exteriors go. I like the Civic. It's not as great as the 96-00 but I think it will age well.
And I don't believe the Civic is a "sissy" car. Some could say that the Protege is a girl's car too. Because let's face it, Tim Allen would never go gaga over a 2.0L engine that only makes 130HP.
When I bought the Protege it was really between a used Civic and a new Civic then I saw the Protege's ad in the paper and decided to go check ito out. I didn't even bother to go drive the Civic right after I looked at the Protege because I knew the Protege was cheaper and if I went and drove the Honda I would probably end up in it.
Overall I have been happy over the last 4 months and almost 6,000 miles but that doesn't mean I will take any of the Civic's credit away from it.
The Jetta is a MUCH nicer car than the Protege5, in a different class in fact. The Jetta feels solid and substantial, well put together. The P5 feels like it's put together with lots of plastic and lightweight flimsy materials. The P5 is underpowered. Yes I've driven both.
My Jetta has been stellar, so don't sit there and tell me Jettas are the "most beautiful piece of crap made". I'd take any VW over your all show and no go Mazda. You wanted a VW, CR even recommends them, but you got scared by the window regulator stories.
I don't see VW drivers defecting to Japanese imports, VWs get into your blood. If VW drivers switch brands, it's usually to another German car, as they all feel similar. VWs are unique and a blast to drive, they have style, and a loyal customer base. Too bad you'll never get it.
I am really sorry to say it Todd, but Wolf is right (except about the part saying the Pro is cheaply put together, that's not true). At the dealership where I got my Jetta, there are 3 Accords, 2 Camrys (all 1999 or 2000, I checked the stickers), and now a Protege. It seems alot of people do get out of a Japanese car and go to a VW. For me, there was just this feeling that the car was made to withstand alot more than the Protege would take. The stability is unbelievable, the engine is quick and very quick, economy is almost similar (because I had to punch the crap out of the Protege to get it to do what the turbo Jetta does with a light pedal), and workmanship is exemplary.
Also, Todd, there were more problems with the Protege than the CD player and squeaking seats. I couldn't turn up the radio more than halfway, because the sound would muffle and eventually cut off. The transmission squeaked on the 3-2 downshift (not manually shifting either, never did that with the Protege ever), and the rotors had to be resurfaced twice. So some Proteges aren't perfect either (though my 1999 DX was damn near).
I learned about CR and their ratings too. I bought three different home products, and they all suck. CR rated them top box though. So from now on, it's kinda a crap shoot when purchasing stuff, even cars. I mean there is something to research and all, but I made a decision not to let it break me.
I am sorry but that was such a rude and untrue comment bluewolf made. It really makes me laugh, why are you so insecure about your decision with a Jetta (ouch!, lol) The P5 looks a MILLION times better, the jetta looks like a focus especially the wagon version. The P5 is very handsome and sporty. Talk about no go, my '99 GLS was very slow and heavy, granted it is no 1.8T or VR6. I have to say this but the Jetta is such a girl car! Every single teenage girl in the world drives a Jetta because they think they look, "cute." Oh and too bad you'll never get Mazda. Face it, the Jetta is not some exclusive luxury car, it is an economy car. I am sure you will just go berserk when you read this but this is the god's honest truth about this. Now can we stop talking about Jettas? I dropped my Jetta because I wanted to get away from it. Now lets stop talking about it. This makes me so angry!
P.S.- I see tons of VW drivers defecting to Japanese makes. You should drive by my local Mazda dealer. Heck there is even an Audi A6 in their used car/trade-in section.
I agree about the P5 comment, that was untrue. But also, Newcar was kinda harsh toward the Jetta too. I would defend my purchase the same way (and have) if I were talking about a Protege. But it's getting old now, so let's stop comparing the two cars. This forum is not meant for that, not in this section anyway.
go for a Audi a4 with 2.8L V6, used(1-2 yrs). I believe it would priced same as a New Jetta(like Vocus's).
Why? 'cause the A4 is made in Germany and THAT is the original platform design that the Jetta is using, albeit downgraded.
Why I am so sure? 'cause my brother got one with 30,000 miles and moved it to 95000 miles with not a single problem. In fact there are no rattles or squeaks at 95000 miles. Amazing...but true.
Ford Escort. Supposedly based upon older 323 and Protege platforms, but cabin was shrunken down and reliability not as good. I didn't fit in the cabin, so I didn't even bother test-driving.
Ford Focus. Looks too funky. Controls were OK, but the dashboard inserts make it confusing to find the controls. Seats were terrible. The telescoping/tilting steering column didn't telescope enough for me.
Chevy Cavalier. Rented them. Didn't like them. Highway ride was actually pretty good. Windows warped my view so badly, they gave me severe eyestrain. Front suspension made "boinging" sounds when going over potholes and bumps. Small rear seat. Small trunk.
Dodge Neon. My brother and a few friends had such terrible experiences (although I did meet someone with an OK one...but it did require a $500 repair due to a failing head cover gasket at about 50,000 miles). Small, cramped rear seat. Warped windows too. Uncomfortable seat.
Nissan Sentra. Too small up front and in the rear. Trunk too small for class. I kept smacking my head against the A-pillar when leaning out the open window. Controls were good though.
Hyundai Elantra. Version I looked at was good so far as space. Seat wasn't as comfy. Controls felt cheap. Trunk was too small. Rear headroom was too little.
Toyota Echo. Just a little too weird and plasticky for my taste. Lots of headroom though, and the seat was actually comfortable.
Daewoo Nubira. Controls felt cheap. Didn't like the driver's seat.
Subaru Impreza. Too small on the inside for me, and the trunk was puny.
Volkswagen Golf 5-dr hatchback. Nice, but pricey, plus I didn't trust how it'd age, based upon some friends' old Golfs and Jettas.
Volkswagen Jetta. Cramped rear seat. High price. Doubts about reliability. Tiny trunk (yes, it is). Nice seats though (same goes for Golf). Door lock pins on the seats felt nasty. Cheap cupholders (nit-picky, huh?).
I tried a bunch of 3-door sporty cars and coupes, but I didn't fit a one. I didn't fit the Miata, either. What a disappointment! Oh well, at least my wife's happy I don't bug her about them anymore (Audi TT, MR2, Miata, Boxter, Tiburon, Celica, Eclipse....dang my over-long torso).
The ones I did test-drive:
Toyota Corolla. Too much cheap plastic. Handling was a bit too tippy and unpredictable. Seats in the rear were cramped. Tiny pass-through from trunk. Visibility was good. A-pillar OK. Rear-view mirror actually mechanically anchored instead of glued-on. Pricey. Good controls though. Oil filter in a REALLY easy place to access.
Honda Civic. A-pillar just too sharply raked. Seats hurt my back almost as much as those in the Focus. Otherwise, a nice car. Good controls and visibility. Rare battery shape (Honda only?). Good handling. OK space in rear.
Mazda Protege. Whoa, very comfortable (except center console a bit low for use as an armrest...but if it were taller, it'd get in the way of the parking brake)! Good visibility. Best interior space (as much as Focus, but much better utilized...I can't make use of volume under the windshield or the rear window). Seat very comfortable, especially with seat pan height & tilt adjustment. Interior plastics much better done (I like the dimpled accents) and feel of controls good. Good-sized trunk and easy rear-seat access. The only things I don't like are placement of the dimmer switch, the fact the rear-view mirror is glued, and the somewhat weak cupholder.
First time in here; got a p5 back in august; can't help what u r attracted to... in my case the p5's lines are top of the line (no pun intended). No other car I have seen beats those lines, curves, angles, creases accented by black. Just look at it!!! Poetry in motion. Motion sitting still. Balance yet movement. Months later I still grin taking the twisties. Might not be the fastest... but is the funnest. later mazda p lovers
It seems to have gotten pretty heated lately!! My cousin just recently bought a Protege...I helped her negotiate a good deal for it. She looked at and drove other cars as well like the ZX3 and the Jetta. Actually she didn't even bother to test the Jetta, it was way too expensive. This is Canada mind you but the salesman quoted her 24000$ for a Jetta GL with air and auto. They did the financing and all that and she told him to put 22000 as the price...he said she'd never get that price but put it into the computer anyways. For some reason the salesman added it all up and told her how much the total price would be after 5 years of financing and taxes and stuff. It was 34000$ Canadian...for a Jetta GL!!!
Someone was going on about how much smoother the Jetta is and safer and blah blah. Protege is one of the safest cars, it's quite crashworthy as some in this forum could attest to. As far as smooth...a 1.8T with it's superior tourque output is going to be smoother accelerating, and it's defintly faster. But where not talking about a huge difference. Hell, my truck at work with a v8 would blow the doors off both a protege and a jetta. And it's just a truck. The last thing is smooth with respect to handling. An '88 Crown Victoria is probably pretty smooth but I don't think it would be too good through the pylons. I have a Protege and I tested out a 2001 1.8T Wolfsbug...Protege is a much better handling car. It's not something I can be speific about, it just feels solid at all speeds. I've had it up to 160 kph on a raised highway in Montreal and the car feels solid and precise...it just soaks up the expansion joints. It's got really good grip considering the stock tires aren't that great and it doesn't understeer much considering it's a front wheel drive car. I've even got the tail end to swing out a little around corners...felt it give away way before hand and it was easy to control and correct. I think it was Car and Driver said that the Protege handled like a BMW, but for half the price.
Since I was in the market for a used car under $5000, this is what i was looking for
My top choice was a 88-91 Honda CRX, but i couldn't find any in good shape (no rust), and I really wanted a 90-91 Si, but they were all either too expensive or too beat up and neglected.
My next choice was a 92-95 honda civic sedan or hatchback, but at the time (early 2000), all the LX's and EX's and Si's were about $7000 from a private party, and thats more than i wanted to spend.
So then I remembered how nice my friends 90 Protege LX auto was. I liked how it handled, and how the motor sounded, and the features it had were impressive, and I aslo liked the interior's fit and finish. SO i searched for Proteges, and found my car for $4200, but we got him down to 4000 (probably could've gotten him down to like 3500, but didn't really try).
I'm sure you all care, but i figured i'd reply....i'm sure you all were maybe looking at simliar models 10 years ago (new), but I'm a cheapass
Here's my long-winded one. In spring of 99, my wife and I knew we were moving to Texas and my wife's 85 Chevy Citation (yikes!) had 130K miles on it and no A/C. Not acceptable.
So, the auto show was in town right when we realized that we'd be needing a new car (her first-ever car that wouldn't be a hand-me-down) and so we went and looked at *EVERYTHING* in the entry-level price class. This was 99, so no Focus yet. We bought Consumer Reports and Consumer's Digest after the show to see what the numbers were on what we liked.
First thing to realize is that my wife is 5'2" tall. There's been a lot of talk lately about the Jetta. Well, my wife *hated* the Jetta because she found it very difficult to see out of and it just didn't feel right to her in terms of control placement. Several other cars didn't strike her well in this regard and the Jetta was certainly not the worst offender (Saturn), but it was clear we weren't getting a Jetta because of this.
So, from looking at and sitting in everything, we quickly eliminated lots of them immediately. Corolla was too bland and has this tiny back seat. Didn't like the feel of the Neon, and my wife didn't like the white dials (whatever). The Sentra also had a dinky back seat, no dice there. Her mom had a bad experience with an Escort, so we didn't look at that very long.
Then we got to the Mazda area. I couldn't even remember what Mazda made in this price class as we were walking over, and I didn't expect much. I'm sure this was the first time I'd seen a 3rd gen Protege, and my wife loved the exterior immediately. It seemed *huge* inside compared to everything else we'd sat in. Within minutes it got onto our "must drive this" list.
The only other car that made it to that list after seeing and sitting in the Protege was the Civic. You won't hear me bash the Civic, as it was a pretty close call. (Side question: Different people have somewhat different car needs, so why do people feel the need to bash other decent cars just because it isn't what they drive? Seems very childish to me--especially bluewolf.)
The magazines and Web sites consistently rated these cars 1-2, almost always claiming a close race despite some variance in which car was 1 and which was 2. Both have very solid reliability ratings. So anyway, we drove both, and felt that the Protege handled better and had better road feel. I think we both found the Pro to have more comfortable seats. The lower price on the Pro was a bonus, and we'd had several friends who had just bought Civics and paid basically sticker because Honda dealers couldn't keep them on the lot at the time, so we knew the price difference was much larger than the difference in MSRP. I think the fact that we had so many friends in Civics also had us leaning toward the Pro, just to do something different.
I don't think the Civic is a significantly better car than the Pro, nor do I think the Pro is a significantly better car than the Civic. I think it's pretty much even in terms of most objective measures and I think either one is a good choice. (Or at least it was in 99; I find the new Civics really ugly.) I felt like we were very thorough and started out very objectively, sitting in *everything*. (Yeah, including the Daewoo. Yikes.) We made an informed decision not made on hype or emotion, as we had months to make it.
Financially, we certainly made the right call by not getting the Civic. We basically paid invoice for the 99 Pro and also got 3.9% on a 60-month loan. No way would we have gotten that on the Civic at that time. Yes, the Pro depreciates faster, but the price difference was pretty big considering what our friends paid for their Civics. We've loved the car and it's been trouble-free so far (37K miles). [Yes, a sloppy service tech screwed it up recently. We'll see how we come out of that, but either way, that one was not the car's fault.]
Welcome to the Mazda Protegé forum! Whatever you drive you are always welcome here.
Interesting stories and they tell a lot about all the small cars and what buyers look for. No car can be exactly what one desires,but a few come close.
It use to be said that a VW buyer really wanted a BMW, but it was beyond his or her pocketbook. And the same for a BMW buyer really wanting a Mercedes. These days, I think it comes down to which car, in the same price range, lowest to highest, comes closest to their "dream car".
In my experience, many of those "dream cars" turned out to be nightmares. What seemed perfect in the showroom wasn't so after buying. That's why buying a car is very personal and one should never buy based on friends suggestion and peer pressure. Writing this I am thinking about a very bad experience with a BMW, highly recommended by a friend, who was having the same problems with his and didn't say anything about it.
If seeking advice from other owners, beware, they may not be telling you everything. Problems you would consider 100% unacceptable may be routine car troubles to them. They made a mistake, they want you to buy one to justify their purchasing decision while they are shopping for another car. This happens!
1. Civic: had a previous one and loved it, but didn't like the new styling, to expensive, unacceptable financing (8.65% x 4 yrs). Dealers around Toronto tend to treat interested customers like s*** b/c people LOVE them and pay sticker. And they sell a lot of them too. Overpriced! Dealer's attitude was disgusting.
2. Sentra: l;iked the fact I could have rims, spoiler, sunroof, powerful engine, but the styling (read end) is horrible. Too rounded for my taste. Also heard they have a "gentle" ride, and coming from a Civic h/b, that wasn't going to do it. Price was a problem: almost bought one, but couldn't take the price where I could afford it.
3. Elantra: sat in it>everything felt like cheap plastic and the seats were horible. I drive about 100km/day, so again, a no-no.
4. cavalier: opened the hood and saw a 1980s engine in there. Interior not what I would like. The seats were not supporting the back. felt inferior to the Civic and Sentra. Price, even with good GM financing, was too close to the Sentra's. So again, since I am Japanese-biased, NEXT!
5. Corolla: Didn't even want to look at one. I really don't like them. Price was not what I was prepared to pay for a car that feels cheap inside. Personal choice.
6. The PRO: This is the interesting part. I was car-shopping for about 2 months. Went to dealers all around Toronto, but never stepped into Mazda. At that time, there were almost no Proteges in T.O. (I'm not joking. This was in May 2001). So I just decided to stop to this dealer on my way to hyundai, just so I don't say I wasn't EVERYWHERE. So originally I went in for the SE, but I didn't like the look of it inside. Yes, interior styling is very important to me! The dealer showed me the LX (better engine, since I had to get an auto so my mom can also drive it) and I liked it better. Took an ES GT for a spin, and it was perfect. Ride was firm and solid, no rattles, great acceleration and looked better than every car I looked at before. Took my brochures home, researhced it for 2 weeks intensively (net, bookstores...) and went again to ALL Toronto-area Mazda dealers. Again, some quoted me ridiculous prices (one got me about $100 abouve MSRP) and I was P*ss*d off and left. A week later I went back to the original Mazda dealer, took the ES for another spin. I couldn't decide b/c LX and ES, but since I wanted pwr windows and the black interior, ES it was.
A week after that I picked it up. Silver, with spoiler, no sunroof, ABS, rims, but it can outdrive sooo many cars out there, everytime I see someone driving a new small car and NOT a Protegé, I ask myself WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???
I am so sick of people saying that buying a new car is a crap shoot as far as knowing if it will be a good car or not. For example: If you buy a new Toyota, your odds of getting a good car are much better than your odds of playing craps. Same goes for the Protege. I don't care how "nice" a car is, if it has a poor track record (Jetta) I don't want it. I have driven both the Jetta Wolfsburg and the Protege and I found that the Protege feels MORE solid than the Jetta. As far as handling traits and feel are concerned, the Protege is even more German than the Jetta. How can you have a beam rear axle and floaty suspension and call it a "driver's" car at the same time? Like I said before, I really like the Jetta, I just don't like the "crapshoot" that is involved when you buy one and it's not because I couldn't afford one. My priorities are obviously different than yours.
Sorry, you lost all credibility once you said the Jetta looks like a Focus. Have you SEEN these two cars?! You're really reaching...
I guess everybody is gonna feel something different and there is no consensus. The Jetta, to me, feels to be of superior construction, nicer materials and has a very solid feel at speed. The P5 handles well, but construction feels less substantial.
Crash test scores seem to indicate that all VWs are very solid cars, designed to handle impact as well as one could hope for a smaller car.
I'd say that it is now about time to remember that this is a Protege discussion and not a comparo between the Protege and the Jetta.
I'm not sure that is a natural comparison, but if anyone really wants to pursue this, please hop over to our Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans folder and create a suitable topic. If such a discussion is established, I'll certainly provide a link here for anyone interested to follow.
Meanwhile, why don't we let folks hanging out here get back to discussing their Proteges.
Yes, I have SEEN these two cars and everyone I have talked to agrees with me, I mean they have the exact same body shape granted the front is different. By the way I don't need you to tell me when I am credible and when I am not. Why don't you just listen to yourself for awhile buddy.
Everyone...I am sorry I had to say something. It just burns me up when people don't know what they are talking about. I won't say anything more. I'm Sorry, I'm Sorry, I'm Sorry.
I don't think it's any fun that we can't talk about the Jetta anymore. I mean some people might kind of like talking about the Jetta. Can we not say the word Jetta at all. What if we say "I was behind a Jetta the other day in my Protege" or "The other day when I was beside a Jetta my windshield wipers quit working" or what about "I think a Jetta parked next to me gave me a door ding".
Would those be deleted? Or since this post has the word Jetta in it will it be deleted? I guess we just need some clarification as to what you mean when you say we can't talk about the Jetta anymore.
What I mean is that this discussion is for folks who want to discuss the Protege - that's why it is named what it is.
There is a separate Jetta discussion on this same board which you are welcome to join, and as I said anyone is free to either contribute to any of our existing comparison discussions or start a new one.
I don't know what isn't clear about that, but please feel free to drop me an email if you need more explanation.
Meanwhile - as I said - let's allow these good folks to get back to discussing the Protege.
Come on lets not go to extremes, lets be reasonable. Pat_Host is just trying to return this discussion to it's former magnanimous state! If you re-read the last 100 or so posts from last week. Pat has been pretty understanding, if not down right cool. It DOES hurt me to say that about a Town Hall Host! ;-) Actually, Pat_Host is starting to grow on me! She's not as cool as Drew_Host was, however she is NOT bad! ;-o
So come on gang. Lets not compare our vehicle to the Jetta, that comparo is pointless at best. I believe Pat will keep the Bluewolf's of the world at bay, IF we stay out of the fray. I'm sure it's ok to talk about a V-Dub Jet in general terms, but who wants to? I'm SICK of it. Paul King traded his Protege in on a Jet, big deal! Who cares any more? Cindy, you post some real good stuff, carry on! I enjoy reading your posts!
The Protege I like is the ES. What I wish was offered is a couple of different colors like a dark blue and a maroon and I wish the spoiler was optional instead of standard. Is the spoiler really functional or only visual? I will be in the market for an additional car soon and the Protege will be one of the choices. One of the negatives with the Mazda is a lack of dealers in my area. There is not a dealer in the city I live in or the city I work in.
Is the millenium red mica more of a bright red or more of a darker red?
I'm 6'0", but have a long torso, so I sit more like a 6'3" person. I have about 1" between my hair and the inside of the roof (no moonroof though). I could have more headroom by lowering the seat pan, but I like where it is right now.
So far as weight goes, I'm about 185lb +/- 5, depending on the season. I fit nicely into my Pro.
Something else you'll appreciate, being tall, is the A-pillar isn't too sharply raked back. This prevents me from knocking my head on it when I use ATMs etc. I kept cracking my head on the A-pillars of other vehicles (Focus and Civic, for example) since their windshields are raked back so sharply. This also allows better visibility, as the roof isn't blocking your view as much.
I'm 5'7'' and 150lbs with super long legs and really wide shoulders. I fit just fine in most of the cars I test drove but I fit best in the Protege. The Civic, Corolla, and Elantra were all fine but just seemed more cramped to me. Civic seats seemed too firm and too short, the Corolla seats seemed too short and too soft, and the Elantra seats had wimpy lumbar support and also seemed short.
I've test sat in Civic 4 door, Corrolla, Focus and CR-V. The PRO is the most comfortable for me (6'2", 280 lbs.) The only thing that doesn't work for me is the driver's side door panel, my knee cap is what usually takes the weight of my leg leaning against the door. Adjusting the seat height/angle may help. Otherwise, I figure I'll just rig together a cushion so that my thigh is what is leaning against the door.
I really wanted the Pro 5 but ordered the LX sedan instead. I'm convinced that there is a little more leg room in the sedan. I think the measurement #'s are the same on the spec sheet. I tried to measure the difference but gave up, the sedan just feels bigger.
when I had it. Both of them, actually (1999 DX and 2001 ES). I am 6'3 and weigh about 280 lbs. and even fit with the sunroof. My knee used to lean against the driver's door panel too when I drove. Also, in summer and if sweating, it kinda "discolored" the door panel and armrest too (I had the 2001 black ES interior). It cleaned right up, but still looked nasty though.
Anybody advice on what to go over before accepting delivery of a new Pro?
Also, not sure what the recommendation is as far as waxing a new vehicle. Should I wait a few months? I don't intend to get any dealer add-on clear coats or rust proofing.
I live in Chicago, which becomes a big salt flat in the winter. Any extra things I could do to protect my car in this climate. I've never been sure about the effects of car washing when below freezing.
Dealer said my silver LX should arrive first of December. I can't wait.
I'm 5'3", and have no problem with visibility and/or seat/driving position. As to weight/girth, let's just say I'm bigger than I would like.
But here again, I have no problems fitting in the Protege (wish the seat were a LITTLE wider, but it's never been a comfort issue for me).
And actually, one of the reasons I chose the Protege was because I didn't feel like I was wearing the car once the seatbelt was fastened. (This was a problem for me with the Cavalier, as well as some Toyotas).
Comments
PF
Gas prices: We are sitting at $.94 here in Georgia.
Resale: I recently did a comparison of trade between a Civic and a Protege. The Civic was worth about $2500 more. But if you consider that the Protege is available with 0.0% interest and that the Protege probably cost less to begin with the Civic isn't that far ahead. Of course, if you are unable to get the 0.0% then I would lean back towards the Civic. And if you like to trade cars often I would stick with the Civic.
Speaking of LX 5-speeds we have a nice 2001 LX 2.0 5-speed in silver. It has 14,000 miles or so. Nice car. If I didn't have to have the 4 wheel disc brakes the LX would've been a nice choice. Although I kinda do like the spoiler and the fog lights on the ES.
duh_ster: Wondering how you converted 0.56 /liter to US gal price. I get $2.12 a gallon. You notice it takes almost $30 to fill 'er up?
And now, a general comment: regarding Vocus and Meade. Good grief Meade, anybody can buy any car they can get off the lot, as far as I'm concerned. I'd appreciate it if yous guys would take your VW 2 Pro discussion to a comparison topic, $$$ discussion to a financing topic and let this group return to the 'lighter side'
Now Meade don't get all mad b/c of norcan's and my comments. It really is a PRO board.
Cheers!~ and happy ZOOM-ZOOMing to everyone this weekend.
Dinu
Pluses:
The Civic in, some respects, has better styling, a bit more modern. It's a matter of taste. Looks more like a girl's car.
Better fuel economy and holds more of its value.
Minuses:
The interior fabrics look cheap and the seats are too hard. No thigh support, the seat cushion is too short for drivers 6-feet tall. Too much hard plastic trim.
Instrument panel cluster looks toy-like, has cheap look to the finish. Hard to see in some light.
Black steering wheel regardless of trim color. Doesn't go with any.
Rear seat too small and no leg room when front seat is set for tall drivers.
Acceleration no better with VTech. Engine whines but car doesn't move off quickly.
Mazda Protegé has none of these problems.
It's a nice looking small car that is sometimes confused with more expensive models -- Audi and Volvo.
Interior is nicely finished with soft-touch padding on dash and door panels. Color-keyed vinyl and fabrics. Large comfortable seats with good thigh support for tall drivers. Plenty of leg room up front.
Dash and instrument cluster look business-like with black (DX & LX) finish, white on SE. Center pod is the best I have seen on any car and there are some really wierd ones out there. Nice console with cup holders.
Peppy engine that takes right off when needed. Acceptable fuel economy.
The Civic has too many shortcomings to be a car I would consider regardless of its resale value. If you don't like a cars interior don't buy it just for its exterior styling -- you will quickly come to hate it. That's where you spend your time. The Civic is too road-toy-like overall. The Protegé is macho, the Civic is sissy.
Just like a new suit, the person most impressed with a new car is the buyer. It doesn't matter what others think.
fowler3
What do you look for in a car?
fowler3
Nissan Sentra--Rear end is UGLY, built in Mexico. Otherwise it's a pretty pleasing package.
VW Jetta--I really wanted one but the horrendous reliability record, expensive parts and steep price steered me away. I really like the interior though; it would give me something to look at while waiting for a tow truck. I think this car is currently the most beautiful piece of crap made. Sorry Vocus.
Toyota Corolla-I liked the S model, but it wasn't sporty enough. The rear seats don't fold and the red illumination on the instruments don't match the green illumination of the radio (a major oversight IMO). Looks too "economy car". On the plus side, it's probably one of the most reliable cars you can buy.
Toyota Camry V6 5sp---Too much money, too vanilla. Fast though.
I never considered the Civic.
Vocus--IMO, the problems with the Protege (CD player and squeeky seats) pale in comparison with windows falling into the doors, clunky doors, numereous rattles and noises, excessive oil consumption, poor dealership experiences, check engine lights, and high parts costs. It is true that all cars have problems. It is VERY true that some makes happen to have more incidents of problems than others. Face it, the VW Jetta doesn't have a stellar record, the Protege does. Your chances of ending up with a good car are much greater with the Protege.
The Civics interior is like all Honda interiors. Simple and well designed. It had a quality feel to me and to me the materials used look much like the Jetta. I again, don't see a problem with the black steering wheel? What other color should it be? And I didn't notice more hard plasic trim in the Civic than in any other car in it's price class.
As far as exteriors go. I like the Civic. It's not as great as the 96-00 but I think it will age well.
And I don't believe the Civic is a "sissy" car. Some could say that the Protege is a girl's car too. Because let's face it, Tim Allen would never go gaga over a 2.0L engine that only makes 130HP.
When I bought the Protege it was really between a used Civic and a new Civic then I saw the Protege's ad in the paper and decided to go check ito out. I didn't even bother to go drive the Civic right after I looked at the Protege because I knew the Protege was cheaper and if I went and drove the Honda I would probably end up in it.
Overall I have been happy over the last 4 months and almost 6,000 miles but that doesn't mean I will take any of the Civic's credit away from it.
My Jetta has been stellar, so don't sit there and tell me Jettas are the "most beautiful piece of crap made". I'd take any VW over your all show and no go Mazda. You wanted a VW, CR even recommends them, but you got scared by the window regulator stories.
I don't see VW drivers defecting to Japanese imports, VWs get into your blood. If VW drivers switch brands, it's usually to another German car, as they all feel similar. VWs are unique and a blast to drive, they have style, and a loyal customer base. Too bad you'll never get it.
Also, Todd, there were more problems with the Protege than the CD player and squeaking seats. I couldn't turn up the radio more than halfway, because the sound would muffle and eventually cut off. The transmission squeaked on the 3-2 downshift (not manually shifting either, never did that with the Protege ever), and the rotors had to be resurfaced twice. So some Proteges aren't perfect either (though my 1999 DX was damn near).
I learned about CR and their ratings too. I bought three different home products, and they all suck. CR rated them top box though. So from now on, it's kinda a crap shoot when purchasing stuff, even cars. I mean there is something to research and all, but I made a decision not to let it break me.
P.S.- I see tons of VW drivers defecting to Japanese makes. You should drive by my local Mazda dealer. Heck there is even an Audi A6 in their used car/trade-in section.
Zoom-Zoom Pride!
Why?
'cause the A4 is made in Germany and THAT is the original platform design that the Jetta is using, albeit downgraded.
Why I am so sure?
'cause my brother got one with 30,000 miles and moved it to 95000 miles with not a single problem.
In fact there are no rattles or squeaks at 95000 miles.
Amazing...but true.
Ford Escort. Supposedly based upon older 323 and Protege platforms, but cabin was shrunken down and reliability not as good. I didn't fit in the cabin, so I didn't even bother test-driving.
Ford Focus. Looks too funky. Controls were OK, but the dashboard inserts make it confusing to find the controls. Seats were terrible. The telescoping/tilting steering column didn't telescope enough for me.
Chevy Cavalier. Rented them. Didn't like them. Highway ride was actually pretty good. Windows warped my view so badly, they gave me severe eyestrain. Front suspension made "boinging" sounds when going over potholes and bumps. Small rear seat. Small trunk.
Dodge Neon. My brother and a few friends had such terrible experiences (although I did meet someone with an OK one...but it did require a $500 repair due to a failing head cover gasket at about 50,000 miles). Small, cramped rear seat. Warped windows too. Uncomfortable seat.
Nissan Sentra. Too small up front and in the rear. Trunk too small for class. I kept smacking my head against the A-pillar when leaning out the open window. Controls were good though.
Hyundai Elantra. Version I looked at was good so far as space. Seat wasn't as comfy. Controls felt cheap. Trunk was too small. Rear headroom was too little.
Toyota Echo. Just a little too weird and plasticky for my taste. Lots of headroom though, and the seat was actually comfortable.
Daewoo Nubira. Controls felt cheap. Didn't like the driver's seat.
Subaru Impreza. Too small on the inside for me, and the trunk was puny.
Volkswagen Golf 5-dr hatchback. Nice, but pricey, plus I didn't trust how it'd age, based upon some friends' old Golfs and Jettas.
Volkswagen Jetta. Cramped rear seat. High price. Doubts about reliability. Tiny trunk (yes, it is). Nice seats though (same goes for Golf). Door lock pins on the seats felt nasty. Cheap cupholders (nit-picky, huh?).
I tried a bunch of 3-door sporty cars and coupes, but I didn't fit a one. I didn't fit the Miata, either. What a disappointment! Oh well, at least my wife's happy I don't bug her about them anymore (Audi TT, MR2, Miata, Boxter, Tiburon, Celica, Eclipse....dang my over-long torso).
The ones I did test-drive:
Toyota Corolla. Too much cheap plastic. Handling was a bit too tippy and unpredictable. Seats in the rear were cramped. Tiny pass-through from trunk. Visibility was good. A-pillar OK.
Honda Civic. A-pillar just too sharply raked. Seats hurt my back almost as much as those in the Focus. Otherwise, a nice car. Good controls and visibility. Rare battery shape (Honda only?). Good handling. OK space in rear.
Mazda Protege. Whoa, very comfortable (except center console a bit low for use as an armrest...but if it were taller, it'd get in the way of the parking brake)! Good visibility. Best interior space (as much as Focus, but much better utilized...I can't make use of volume under the windshield or the rear window). Seat very comfortable, especially with seat pan height & tilt adjustment. Interior plastics much better done (I like the dimpled accents) and feel of controls good. Good-sized trunk and easy rear-seat access. The only things I don't like are placement of the dimmer switch, the fact the rear-view mirror is glued, and the somewhat weak cupholder.
Someone was going on about how much smoother the Jetta is and safer and blah blah. Protege is one of the safest cars, it's quite crashworthy as some in this forum could attest to. As far as smooth...a 1.8T with it's superior tourque output is going to be smoother accelerating, and it's defintly faster. But where not talking about a huge difference. Hell, my truck at work with a v8 would blow the doors off both a protege and a jetta. And it's just a truck. The last thing is smooth with respect to handling. An '88 Crown Victoria is probably pretty smooth but I don't think it would be too good through the pylons. I have a Protege and I tested out a 2001 1.8T Wolfsbug...Protege is a much better handling car. It's not something I can be speific about, it just feels solid at all speeds. I've had it up to 160 kph on a raised highway in Montreal and the car feels solid and precise...it just soaks up the expansion joints. It's got really good grip considering the stock tires aren't that great and it doesn't understeer much considering it's a front wheel drive car. I've even got the tail end to swing out a little around corners...felt it give away way before hand and it was easy to control and correct. I think it was Car and Driver said that the Protege handled like a BMW, but for half the price.
My top choice was a 88-91 Honda CRX, but i couldn't find any in good shape (no rust), and I really wanted a 90-91 Si, but they were all either too expensive or too beat up and neglected.
My next choice was a 92-95 honda civic sedan or hatchback, but at the time (early 2000), all the LX's and EX's and Si's were about $7000 from a private party, and thats more than i wanted to spend.
So then I remembered how nice my friends 90 Protege LX auto was. I liked how it handled, and how the motor sounded, and the features it had were impressive, and I aslo liked the interior's fit and finish. SO i searched for Proteges, and found my car for $4200, but we got him down to 4000 (probably could've gotten him down to like 3500, but didn't really try).
I'm sure you all care, but i figured i'd reply....i'm sure you all were maybe looking at simliar models 10 years ago (new), but I'm a cheapass
Here's my long-winded one. In spring of 99, my wife and I knew we were moving to Texas and my wife's 85 Chevy Citation (yikes!) had 130K miles on it and no A/C. Not acceptable.
So, the auto show was in town right when we realized that we'd be needing a new car (her first-ever car that wouldn't be a hand-me-down) and so we went and looked at *EVERYTHING* in the entry-level price class. This was 99, so no Focus yet. We bought Consumer Reports and Consumer's Digest after the show to see what the numbers were on what we liked.
First thing to realize is that my wife is 5'2" tall. There's been a lot of talk lately about the Jetta. Well, my wife *hated* the Jetta because she found it very difficult to see out of and it just didn't feel right to her in terms of control placement. Several other cars didn't strike her well in this regard and the Jetta was certainly not the worst offender (Saturn), but it was clear we weren't getting a Jetta because of this.
So, from looking at and sitting in everything, we quickly eliminated lots of them immediately. Corolla was too bland and has this tiny back seat. Didn't like the feel of the Neon, and my wife didn't like the white dials (whatever). The Sentra also had a dinky back seat, no dice there. Her mom had a bad experience with an Escort, so we didn't look at that very long.
Then we got to the Mazda area. I couldn't even remember what Mazda made in this price class as we were walking over, and I didn't expect much. I'm sure this was the first time I'd seen a 3rd gen Protege, and my wife loved the exterior immediately. It seemed *huge* inside compared to everything else we'd sat in. Within minutes it got onto our "must drive this" list.
The only other car that made it to that list after seeing and sitting in the Protege was the Civic. You won't hear me bash the Civic, as it was a pretty close call. (Side question: Different people have somewhat different car needs, so why do people feel the need to bash other decent cars just because it isn't what they drive? Seems very childish to me--especially bluewolf.)
The magazines and Web sites consistently rated these cars 1-2, almost always claiming a close race despite some variance in which car was 1 and which was 2. Both have very solid reliability ratings. So anyway, we drove both, and felt that the Protege handled better and had better road feel. I think we both found the Pro to have more comfortable seats. The lower price on the Pro was a bonus, and we'd had several friends who had just bought Civics and paid basically sticker because Honda dealers couldn't keep them on the lot at the time, so we knew the price difference was much larger than the difference in MSRP. I think the fact that we had so many friends in Civics also had us leaning toward the Pro, just to do something different.
I don't think the Civic is a significantly better car than the Pro, nor do I think the Pro is a significantly better car than the Civic. I think it's pretty much even in terms of most objective measures and I think either one is a good choice. (Or at least it was in 99; I find the new Civics really ugly.) I felt like we were very thorough and started out very objectively, sitting in *everything*. (Yeah, including the Daewoo. Yikes.) We made an informed decision not made on hype or emotion, as we had months to make it.
Financially, we certainly made the right call by not getting the Civic. We basically paid invoice for the 99 Pro and also got 3.9% on a 60-month loan. No way would we have gotten that on the Civic at that time. Yes, the Pro depreciates faster, but the price difference was pretty big considering what our friends paid for their Civics. We've loved the car and it's been trouble-free so far (37K miles). [Yes, a sloppy service tech screwed it up recently. We'll see how we come out of that, but either way, that one was not the car's fault.]
Interesting stories and they tell a lot about all the small cars and what buyers look for. No car can be exactly what one desires,but a few come close.
It use to be said that a VW buyer really wanted a BMW, but it was beyond his or her pocketbook. And the same for a BMW buyer really wanting a Mercedes. These days, I think it comes down to which car, in the same price range, lowest to highest, comes closest to their "dream car".
In my experience, many of those "dream cars" turned out to be nightmares. What seemed perfect in the showroom wasn't so after buying. That's why buying a car is very personal and one should never buy based on friends suggestion and peer pressure. Writing this I am thinking about a very bad experience with a BMW, highly recommended by a friend, who was having the same problems with his and didn't say anything about it.
If seeking advice from other owners, beware, they may not be telling you everything. Problems you would consider 100% unacceptable may be routine car troubles to them. They made a mistake, they want you to buy one to justify their purchasing decision while they are shopping for another car. This happens!
fowler3
2. Sentra: l;iked the fact I could have rims, spoiler, sunroof, powerful engine, but the styling (read end) is horrible. Too rounded for my taste. Also heard they have a "gentle" ride, and coming from a Civic h/b, that wasn't going to do it. Price was a problem: almost bought one, but couldn't take the price where I could afford it.
3. Elantra: sat in it>everything felt like cheap plastic and the seats were horible. I drive about 100km/day, so again, a no-no.
4. cavalier: opened the hood and saw a 1980s engine in there. Interior not what I would like. The seats were not supporting the back. felt inferior to the Civic and Sentra. Price, even with good GM financing, was too close to the Sentra's. So again, since I am Japanese-biased, NEXT!
5. Corolla: Didn't even want to look at one. I really don't like them. Price was not what I was prepared to pay for a car that feels cheap inside. Personal choice.
6. The PRO: This is the interesting part. I was car-shopping for about 2 months. Went to dealers all around Toronto, but never stepped into Mazda. At that time, there were almost no Proteges in T.O. (I'm not joking. This was in May 2001). So I just decided to stop to this dealer on my way to hyundai, just so I don't say I wasn't EVERYWHERE. So originally I went in for the SE, but I didn't like the look of it inside. Yes, interior styling is very important to me! The dealer showed me the LX (better engine, since I had to get an auto so my mom can also drive it) and I liked it better. Took an ES GT for a spin, and it was perfect. Ride was firm and solid, no rattles, great acceleration and looked better than every car I looked at before. Took my brochures home, researhced it for 2 weeks intensively (net, bookstores...) and went again to ALL Toronto-area Mazda dealers. Again, some quoted me ridiculous prices (one got me about $100 abouve MSRP) and I was P*ss*d off and left. A week later I went back to the original Mazda dealer, took the ES for another spin. I couldn't decide b/c LX and ES, but since I wanted pwr windows and the black interior, ES it was.
A week after that I picked it up. Silver, with spoiler, no sunroof, ABS, rims, but it can outdrive sooo many cars out there, everytime I see someone driving a new small car and NOT a Protegé, I ask myself WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???
Zoom-Zoom
I guess everybody is gonna feel something different and there is no consensus. The Jetta, to me, feels to be of superior construction, nicer materials and has a very solid feel at speed. The P5 handles well, but construction feels less substantial.
Crash test scores seem to indicate that all VWs are very solid cars, designed to handle impact as well as one could hope for a smaller car.
No flame intended guys, enjoy your Mazdas.
I'm not sure that is a natural comparison, but if anyone really wants to pursue this, please hop over to our Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans folder and create a suitable topic. If such a discussion is established, I'll certainly provide a link here for anyone interested to follow.
Meanwhile, why don't we let folks hanging out here get back to discussing their Proteges.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
fowler3
fowler3
Anyone want to talk about zoom-zooming? :-)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Everyone...I am sorry I had to say something. It just burns me up when people don't know what they are talking about. I won't say anything more. I'm Sorry, I'm Sorry, I'm Sorry.
P.S.- I'm very sorry
ZOOM-ZOOM!
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Would those be deleted? Or since this post has the word Jetta in it will it be deleted? I guess we just need some clarification as to what you mean when you say we can't talk about the Jetta anymore.
There is a separate Jetta discussion on this same board which you are welcome to join, and as I said anyone is free to either contribute to any of our existing comparison discussions or start a new one.
I don't know what isn't clear about that, but please feel free to drop me an email if you need more explanation.
Meanwhile - as I said - let's allow these good folks to get back to discussing the Protege.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
So come on gang. Lets not compare our vehicle to the Jetta, that comparo is pointless at best. I believe Pat will keep the Bluewolf's of the world at bay, IF we stay out of the fray. I'm sure it's ok to talk about a V-Dub Jet in general terms, but who wants to? I'm SICK of it. Paul King traded his Protege in on a Jet, big deal! Who cares any more? Cindy, you post some real good stuff, carry on! I enjoy reading your posts!
Respectfully,
Larry
One of the negatives with the Mazda is a lack of dealers in my area. There is not a dealer in the city I live in or the city I work in.
Is the millenium red mica more of a bright red or more of a darker red?
The Mill Red is more of a true red. Think cherry kool-aid.
Of the cars I looked at in this price range, (Civic, Sentra, Elantra GT) the Mazda had the most room. I fit very comfortably in my Pro5.
I rejected the Civic for it's total and complete blandness.
I rejected the Sentra for it's droopy styling and miniscule rear seat.
And I rejected the Elantra GT because it didn't impress me enough to overcome it's small price savings.
I also looked at the Jetta and Golf. But at this price you can only get a 2.0L engine and that just didn't impress me at all.
So far as weight goes, I'm about 185lb +/- 5, depending on the season. I fit nicely into my Pro.
Something else you'll appreciate, being tall, is the A-pillar isn't too sharply raked back. This prevents me from knocking my head on it when I use ATMs etc. I kept cracking my head on the A-pillars of other vehicles (Focus and Civic, for example) since their windshields are raked back so sharply. This also allows better visibility, as the roof isn't blocking your view as much.
I really wanted the Pro 5 but ordered the LX sedan instead. I'm convinced that there is a little more leg room in the sedan. I think the measurement #'s are the same on the spec sheet. I tried to measure the difference but gave up, the sedan just feels bigger.
Also, not sure what the recommendation is as far as waxing a new vehicle. Should I wait a few months? I don't intend to get any dealer add-on clear coats or rust proofing.
I live in Chicago, which becomes a big salt flat in the winter. Any extra things I could do to protect my car in this climate. I've never been sure about the effects of car washing when below freezing.
Dealer said my silver LX should arrive first of December. I can't wait.
I'm 5'3", and have no problem with visibility and/or seat/driving position. As to weight/girth, let's just say I'm bigger than I would like.
But here again, I have no problems fitting in the Protege (wish the seat were a LITTLE wider, but it's never been a comfort issue for me).
And actually, one of the reasons I chose the Protege was because I didn't feel like I was wearing the car once the seatbelt was fastened. (This was a problem for me with the Cavalier, as well as some Toyotas).
And make sure that you test drive the actual vehicle that you are purchasing before you finalize the dea.