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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
It will take you round trip about 9 hrs to go/ pick up/ drive home car..
The question is..........................
What price is worth 1 days work??
Weymouth, and Herb Chambers will pick you up at the bus stop. Most of your paperwork will be done upon arrival along with your vehicle already being prepped.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
While mildly disappointing for me, I am glad for Honda. They have made a great car. But if they are having battery delivery problems, they will be losing a few sales as well as momentum. A 'rolling release' doesn't sound like Honda's usual sales plan. We shall see!
Today I got a quote from a dealer @ 27k + tax + license + fees. The quote includes dealer fee of $790 and $500 Flex cash for Honda Financing.
They say its a black friday deal and wont lost long (every dealer says so)
Is it a good deal? Any chances of prices coming down in December?
Thanks in advance.
Yes, the deals should get better by end of Dec, so if you are not in a hurry, you might save a few bucks. But it may not be worth it - the current quote is pretty good if, as I said before, it includes destination and dealer doc fee.
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
800 below invoice for vehicle plus another 500 for flex=1300 below
Minus dealers doc fee charge of 80 dollars and you have a deal for 720 below invoice price plus flex.
End of Dec you will be able to save a few more dollars
IN My area NY/ NJ you may get at best 500 below invoice price on a 2014 model with limited dealerships with flex cash.
NY doc = 75
NJ doc = 299 to 499
Most people who buy the same vehicle in NJ will pay about 500 + more than you.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Your deal is better than most people are getting here in NY/ NJ. It may be close in price with the CA deal but most buyers in New Jersey are still paying a very high doc fee charge plus 140 to 200 more on the sale price of the vehicle. NJ Honda dealerships will not waive there doc fee charge. Some NY dealers will reduce doc's. Any Dealer that told you this is lying. Take that with a grain of salt.. If a doc fee charge is printed on that bill of sale it can not be removed.
Going back to the CA deal .
At 27k for that vehicle your numbers are correct on the CA deal. THE actual total is 1269 below invoice with a 80 doc fee. At $769 below for the EXL/w nav, is a good deal. I think the market is softer out there for sure. End of the month buying will see better pricing there.
Since your shopping in the nyc area;
Call New Rochelle on the 30/31 Try to get that 1k off plus flex. You may get a counter offer at 800 below plus flex. If thats the case decide or wait another month. This Dealership will not waive his doc fee. Unless Rochelle is looking for sales numbers that 1k will be tuff to get.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
On a side note, if anyone is bored and looking for some entertainment, do what I did yesterday. Walk into a big name dealership pretending to be some poor uninformed sod who might be dim enough to pay sticker. The dealers pulled every trick in the book - lied about incentives, massively undervalued trade in to the tune of thousands of $$$, said it would be tough to do a price $1500 below MSRP and thousands above where vehicle is actually selling etc... Then panicked when I started showing that I wanted to leave, and tried to lower the price by thousands of $$$s. I feel bad for anyone who tries to buy a car by just walking into the dealer expecting to get a reasonable price. They really need to clean up this industry and head towards standardized prices on new cars.
that 27k includes destination fee but doc fee is not included, probably I can get them to waive doc fee. I am catching up with another dealer today and this one is through Costco Auto, will see how this goes. And this time I will try to get OTD price quote. I have asked couple of dealers to give me OTD price, but they are not willing unless I give them a Commitment. I feel thats ridiculous, how can I commit without knowing the final price.
Anyways do you guys think its worth to wait till December, if its only matter of a hundred or two, doesnt make sense to wait till december. But if its anything over 500, worth a wait I guess.
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
BE CAREFUL too...if you did go to Boston I'd ensure you have all the actual paperwork with the price details in hand through email. Recall that I had "agreed" the price with a salesman at the dealer. My wife dropped me off and all I had was my old plates and my checkbook in hand. That dealer ultimately tried to re-cut the deal by saying there was a "mistake" re the 790 destination fee. I stood my ground and amazingly they let me walk. I ended up buying at another dealer for my price later same day.
I would hate for you to go all the way up to Boston and then have the same thing happen. It was crazy enough that I had to hold my head up high while I walked across their lot with my plates in hand and go sit at a restaurant across the street while my surprised wife had to come back and pick me up. Would be more of a pain to have to get oneself all the way back to NYC empty handed.....
That always makes me nervous, the chance of some unfortunate "error." Even with the paperwork and a deposit there are no guarantees. If I was going to spend 6+ hours travelling I would need a dealer with an A+ reputation.
" If anyone is bored and seeking entertainment"
Yeah, go to a local car dealer and find a salesperson who works on straight commission. Waste his/her time. Ask to drive four different cars that you have no intension of buying.
Be sure to pick a busy Saturday too.
We used to get a "stroke" like that once in awhile. It didn't take anyone with experience long to realize they had been "ambushed".
Want a "standardized" price? Not a problem! Find one of those "No Dicker" stores and pay what they are asking.
Oh...wait....they stores that tried that failed at that program.
Thanks, gmanusmc!
In some respects I like the fact that the system is still in place, and that there are many people who will pay more. That sort of "subsidizes" those of us who like to go for a real skinny deal!
On a related topic, there was an article in last week's Wall St Journal talking about the pressure dealers are under with the internet, and how many are taking away commission or changing it. Also how many more resources are being put into the internet salespeople rather than the guy roaming the floor looking for walk-ins. Says that most customers are much more informed today, and most have already selected their car, model, color etc. The days of a customer walking in and saying "so what kinda cars do you have today?" are long gone.
It was actually a quiet store with no other business going on. Salesman claimed he was getting paid flat no commission (right...). Told me tires need to be replaced and are dead (they have 50% tread left), needs new brakes (90% left), when asked about perfect mechanical condition said dealers only care about outside of car not inside (lol). Then quoted a price $2,000 above price they would give if you would call or e-mail the store, and tried to stick to it. This isn't selling cars, this is rip off city.
The top salespeople anywhere are those on commission no matter what the business is. Going to salary (which could happen) would reduce the quality of the people selling the cars.
As a long time retail manager I always tried to hire the best people I could find and in order to do that, I had to pay them well and treat them like pros.
Sadly, the average store and the average salesperson deserves the bad rap they have going. I didn't work in an "average" store but there are LOTS out there. They turn over their sales staff constantly and treat them like garbage.
A lot of veterans will tell you..." the internet ruined the car business". In some respects that is true along with a lot of other businesses.
So, adapt or get out! Only the strong will survive and the shoppers need to know that a business HAS to be profitable to survive.
This whole thing is just business by the way. Caveat Emptor! If customers are too lazy to do the work, then they deserve to pay more. And by the way, what do you say about the customer who pays $1500 below MSRP, and takes home the car that they want, and they are happy with the price that they paid? You think the dealer owes it to everyone to give them the rock-bottom price immediately? When I check into a hotel, do they just check me in based on the rate that I reserved of $250 a night, or do they "OWE IT TO ME" to disclose that they were just selling a few extra rooms through Priceline for $99 a night, and they are voluntarily cutting my price just to be nice? Or is it MY responsibility to check those things and cancel the old res and switch to the lower price a few days ahead of my trip?
Believe me, I hate dealer shenanigans, but I think some of the things you claim are not "shady", they are just normal business. When you go to BestBuy does the salesman "OWE IT TO YOU" to tell you that there is a 10% off promo code that you can use on their website?
Still, you went in to entertain yourself with no intension of buying a car...right?
The Michelins on my 2003 CRV have 50% or more tread life remaining...6/32nds yet I am about to replace them. They have lost most of their wet weather traction and are becoming a hazard.
I'm not saying that was a sleazy store. Plenty of them out there along with customers looking for something to do on a Sunday afternoon.
If the hotel lied to you and said "this is the best price you are going to get," or "we are making you a great deal," and would put a huge amount of pressure on you to not walk out and look for better deals, then yes, that would also be unethical. But guess what? Hotels don't do that! The Ritz-Carlton doesn't hound you with salesmen to get you to sign at a terrible price. They could care less and just give you the price and don't negotiate. Same for Best Buy. They don't profile you on race/gender/clothing, give you a terrible price, and then negotiate down. They just put up the price and say take it or leave it, and don't pressure you into taking it. It's an informed arms length transaction, that's the way a legitimate business operates.
Don't want to derail this thread, but my final takeaway was never let your friends go in and find the car they like and buy on the same day. Always go in first to test drive and pick a model, get the heck out of the dealership, get informed, and negotiate through e-mail/phone from a position of strength, showing a lot of patience, and not expressing too much excitement for the car.
Is that right? a ONE PERCENT profit?
Have you ever owned your own business? I'm guessing not.
Overhead is a killer along with taxes and everything else.
I think (right or wrong) that they sized you up as a non serious buyer and treated you accordingly.
Of course, in a perfect world every customer has to be looked at as a buyer.
It's a numbers game. Maybe the next "up" will be here to actually buy a car.
Bill
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Bill
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Dealers would make 0% profit, that's right - nothing t'all.
Dealerships would be abolished and manufacturers would sell cars directly through their websites. You could also go to their retail stores for test drives, etc... (like going to an Apple store). Used cars would be handled through private companies like carmax, not dealers. Dealers would just be paid employees of the manufacturers, i.e. Honda employees. All cars would be sold for the MSRP, unless manufacturer had a published discount in effect. Basically, buying a car would be like buying laptop.
Bill
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
This very well could happen.
You walk in, no need for a test drive is there? I didn't test drive my 2013 CRV when I bought it...waste of time.
Pick out your car, pick a color and pay MSRP!
CarMax is a dealer BTW!
I agree about Apple. They don't discount anything! Want an IPad or an IPhone, you WILL pay full sticker!
Look at how well their stock is doing. Must drive the mooches nuts!
Sadly, Sears went down the drain thanks to other stores giving their product away. The Big Box stores and the Internet have ruined some formally great companies.
Not to say they brought much of this on themselves trying to be everything to everybody.
Even Costco makes between 5-15% on what they sell.
When I was in the tool business we made at least a 30% markup and still, it was tough.
1) What do you do with your trade in? The manufacturer certainly doesn't want it.
2) Where do you go to get warranty work done?
Dealers are a necessary part of the selling chain .. and, they provide jobs to local citizens and contribute to the economy. Many are involved in charitable giving and foundations.
Ford, a number of years ago, tried to set up 'factory owned stores' in both Utah and Oklahoma, where dealer laws were weak. Did not succeed.
Want to buy direct from the factory? Get a Tesla - they don't have 'dealers' in the traditional sense.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion about Accord pricing.
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MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
Take Honda. It sells cars to dealer xyz and charges dealer the invoice price on the car (the real one, not the sham number on Edmunds). Dealer tacks on 20%, calls it MSRP and tries to keep as much of the 20% as possible. Customer would love to go directly to Honda and buy the car at invoice. So we would then expect the same result, customer buys direct, dealer goes busto. But wait, dealers rig the laws so that it is virtually impossible for Honda to sell direct, and you HAVE to go through a dealer. This creates an artificial middleman looking for his piece of the pie, and consumers suffer.
If car buying becomes like Apple, it will be a non-negotiable price, but it will be the TRUE INVOICE price, not MSRP. There is no need to negotiate, you are already getting the rock bottom price Honda was charging the dealer. Viola!
First - I would get rid of dealer laws and let the free market allocate resources.
1. Let Carmax and used dealerships handle this. I don't have an easy way to get rid of used car dealerships. Used cars are unique and non-fungible.
2. Manufacturers could run service shops. Or private sector could handle. No reason to commingle with new car sales.
Ok, that's it for me on reworking the car dealership economy!
Perfect .. thanks!
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MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
As I said before, I would prefer NOT to buy at sticker price when I can buy at 1500 below INVOICE.
Why should dealers not be allowed to trade in used cars? Your beloved Apple is allowed to do dastardly things too, by the way. My wife's iPhone needed a new battery. I could go back to that awesome Apple Store (not) and pay $99 or whatever to get a new one. But instead I paid $5.25 on Ebay, got a new battery AND the little screwdrivers to go with it, and in 10 mins opened up her phone and she has a new battery. Is Apple evil for designing a phone without an officially-user-replaceable battery and then charging $100 for 10 mins or less of work and a $5 battery? Is that any worse than dealers offering sticker price to a potential customer?
I know what you're trying to say here and everyone is entitled to their opinion. By the way, I ALSO AGREE 100% with your last para stating that people need to be prepared and do some research and not just assume that the dealer will be benevolent and kind and pity them and offer them the absolute best deal without any prompting on their part. But seriously man, this is business in America, so get over it! And your "epiphany" about the right way to buy a car (which is pretty obvious by the way) is exactly what this whole board is about! Doing research, having confidence, and getting a good deal.
Its your call every buyer looks at pricing different.
Good luck...
Happy Holidays to All...................Brian
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Vehicle Information: 2014 Honda Accord Ex Sedan Cvt
MSRP $26470
Selling Price (**Excludes tax, MV, Doc, Accessories and Pro-Pack)
$23995 *(includes Dest. and Handling)
Discount Applied $2475.00
*A Protection package may have been added to your vehicle, this $449 - $599 price is not included in your selling price quote.
This offer is valid "7" days from the above date, or the last day of the month, whichever comes first.
The Hamilton Honda Guarantee includes:
FREE Oil & Filter changes
FREE Unlimited Car Washes
FREE Service Loaners & Shuttle service...for as long as you own the vehicle!
==========================================================
LX
Vehicle Information: 2014 Honda Accord Lx Sedan CVT
MSRP $23545
Selling Price $20995 *(includes Dest. and Handling), (**Excludes tax, MV, Doc, Accessories and Pro-Pack)
Discount Applied $2550.00
=======================================
Can someone let me know if this is a good deal ?
Invoice on the EX is $24,300. With the doc fee you are basically at invoice. If there is a pro-pack tack on another $500 or so of dealer profit. Not sure if flex cash is available, if so that would lower the price by $500. End of the month in NJ I would shoot for at least $500 under invoice, then adding in the $300 doc fees and $500 flex cash putting you at $700 under invoice after car, destination, doc fees, and flex cash. For an EX that would be $23,600. Don't accept any propack garbage. I think if you shop the $23,600 number on the last couple of days of the month you should get some takers. Same story with the LX, try to shop $20,900 after car, destination, doc fees, and flex cash. If you push hard enough you might even be able to shave a couple hundred more off.
If you are close to Long Island I would also reach out to Huntington Honda, they apparently move a lot of volume. Call and ask for the internet manager, tell him you have some quotes around the numbers I mentioned, and are willing to come in and buy TODAY.
Bill G
Saw veers' info just after I posted - he's done quite a bit of legwork in your area already and has a good feel for what's going on with the pricing. If you guys compare notes, you should land a couple good deals.
One more thing - dang - you guys are up late - I'm on the west coast and it's 10:35
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Brian may be a better resource than me on this. I'm finding the NY dealers ready to deal and do business, but the NJ ones seem less aggressive and are more likely to just go silent in response to aggressive offers. I haven't found anyone yet who really wants to seal the deal. In NJ it may just be a numbers game where you call up 20 dealers at months end and find the one who really wants to make his sales quota.
One suggestion I would give though is to not give up on dealers who quote a high price. Once you get a couple of decent quotes, you can show them to the dealers who came in high, and they might be willing to beat your low quote. Don't conflate opening bid with final numbers; often the dealers with the lowest initial quote won't move at all, and the ones who give ridiculously high numbers might be more willing to come down hard. Food for thought.
NY.... about 500 below invoice with a 75 doc fee charge.
NJ... Dealers are starting at invoice price to a couple hundred below invoice. Jersey dealers doc's are 269 like at hamitlton honda and as high as 499. Prices Exclude Flex Rebate if dealerships have it.
I will suggest 2 things to help you close your deal
1- Decide on make, model,color and options if any..
2 Acceptable target price to buy.
Here is where the market is for a decent negotiator getting a good price.
Buying your model at months end in NJ = 500 to 600 below invoice. You will be giving back 300 to 400 in doc' fee's. Even at this price dealers may not want to sell. If thats the case move on to next dealership.This is definitely your starting point in NJ.
NY....... same price but with doc's only 75 dollars. Markets little better in NY.
Auto-sport, Garden state, Paul miller, Joyce, and Dch Paramus, Rt 23, and VIP might go 600 below. Hamilton is also worth a shot at the end of this month.
Planet, Hillside, Open Road, RT 22 , play to many games and want you in the showroom dont fall for that nonsense. Make your best deal online/ by phone then go to dealership. Deal only with the internet managers.
NY dealers to contact....Internet mgrs only on last 2 days/ last day this month.
New Rochelle
Friendly
Morehead
Yonkers
Bay ridge.. They are hit or miss certain months.
Atlantic...............LI
Millennium...........LI
Huntington..........LI
Knowing how and when to buy plus your negotiating skills will dictate pricing.
High volume dealerships and excess dealer stock in your model is where you may land your target price alot easier.
If your buying a 2014 model you buy added options you want not what dealer wants to give you... or you walk..
keep and eye on VEERS posting he seems to be a good negotiator. Pricing he receives..... you most likely wont get. Gotta play the game to nail down the best/ lowest price.
Thats the beauty of this forum.. What you learn about pricing and dealerships will help you get the best possible deal.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Am still getting quotes from other Orlando area dealers. Currently have a 2010 Acura TSX which I may or may not trade.
You should be aiming for anywhere from $500 - $1000 below invoice before any incentives. You should ask dealerships if they have flex cash for financing through Honda. Just make sure that the quote you receive from all other dealers includes the destination fee but does not include any incentives.
There is a lot of advice on this forum on how to negotiate and land a great deal. The end of the month is only a few days away, so timing is very important. Are you planning to buy within the next few days or weeks?
Good luck and feel free to post any other quotes you receive.