Now that the weather in New England has finally turned into summer and we can spend more time in the car, we're off to Italy. I'll start hoping for a good August and a long fall to put some miles on the 328.
We'll be in Maranello/Modena for only a few days as we're ending our vacation at the British Grand Prix. At present it looks like our application to tour the factory will come to not. Evidently we applied too late. They only give English language tours on certain days and our schedule meant we only had one opportunity to go. Oh well, maybe next year, or maybe a late fax if someone cancels.
We're still planning a tour of Lamborghini up the road in St Agata, and who knows what we'll see at Fiorano and on the roads around Maranello. Last year we were very lucky.
Anyway, upon our return I'll share what ever exciting news and experiences seem appropriate. I only wish there were some way to post pics here at Edmunds.
Have a great July everyone! "See you" at the end of the month.
I recently came across a new magazine called Octane, devoted to sports and racing cars of the classic era. The first issue has an interesting cover story about two of Giotto Bizzarrini's designs, the Ferrari 250 GTO and the Iso Grifo A3/C (later known as the Bizzarrini GT). There are some good insights and driving impressions of the cars.
-According to the article the 250 GT SWB was developed into the GTO after Ferrari's Sales Manager saw the E-Type at Geneva. He told the racing department that the new Jag looked capable of blowing away the SWB.
-Bizzarrrini told the magazine that he felt the small block Chevy 327 in competition form was a better engine than the famous 3-liter V12.
More good stuff in Octane, probably not on your local newsstand, I got mine @ Border's.
well the racing record of the Colombo 3 and 3.3 engines speaks for itself, The 327 had some success in competition to be sure but doesn't touch the record of those V12s which dominated sports car and prototype racing from '58-'65. It isn't just about cubic inches after all.
Bizzarrini made a mistake when he opted to leave Ferrari after the 1961 Purge of Gardini, Chiti and others to work for them at ATS.
The departure of all that talent proved to be a disaster for all concerned, especially Ferrari.
Speaking of boo-boos, Giralamo Gardini's assessment of the E-Type as a potential Ferrari eater was never borne out by developments. Had Jaguar more resources things might have been different.
Jaguar did finally come out with some more ferocious cars based on the E-Type but I agree, Ferrari didn't have to be scared of the original sports car.
One thing the V-12 had over the Chevy 327 was endurance. The sheer ruggedness of Ferrari engines won it a lot of races, even over more powerful cars. Corvettes, for instance, never did well in International racing, and I don't believe a 327 Chevy ever won at Lemans.
Nowadays, a Chevy mill powering this or that vintage race car can clean up in vintage racing because you can cheat (or legally modify) so easily and cheaply, whereas you can't buy illegal or go-fast racing bits for some of this exotic 30-40 year old Italian machinery.
So modern day comparisons aren't really very fair.
Ever since seeing one at last year's Italiano Corso, I've been convinced that the Titanium Modena is visually perfect. Maybe it was just how it looked against the backdrop of Carmel, but the Titanium really looked spectacular to me.
The thing is, I have a titanium silver M3, and I'm beginning to feel that the color is a little plain, and I almost regret not getting it in an Imola Red or a custom Estoril Blue.
Let me ask you all a question: do you think Titanium will age as well on the Modena as would Rosso Corso or Fly Yellow? Even if you liked it better now, do you think you might regret not getting a "classic" color later on? Especially if you felt that you would be unlikely to ever sell the car for another Ferrari.
LOL, I must be less discerning than you. That moment for me came when I was 10 years old, in the family car as we drove down to California from Canada on vacation. Just outside of San Francisco, I saw one the very first E30 M3s zoom past us.
I wasn't much a "car nut" kid before then, but my eyes must have gotten wide as saucers looking at that black beast of a coupe, with its spoiler and ground effects like nothing I'd ever seen before. That M3 changed my whole perspective on cars. I'll never forget that moment, and I have no doubt it's why I've been such an M3 freak ever since.
I envy you... I had to GROW into a love for Ferraris.
Seriously though, your story about the Lusso... awesome. You just can't explain that sort of feeling to someone who just doesn't 'get' it the same way you do.
It was that kind of moment for me as well. I was almost 21 but just really becoming a gear head. I was bumming a ride back to college up the Quickway (NYS 17) in the Catskills which is almost Autobahn-like when the Lusso swept by us. I had seen Ferraris before cuz I used to go over to the West Side of Manhattan and peek in the windows at Chinetti Motors, at the time America's largest Ferrari Dealer (Chinetti was the US distributor).
The silver Lusso had Italian license plates and I caught a glimpse of the driver, a squat older man who could have been Il Commendatore himself. Of course it wasn't, Ol' Enzo seldom left Maranello let alone Italy. But the car made a huge impression on me. I was a tifosi for life.
I guess it probably is a classic Ferrari color, but silver has been an "in" color for the last few years, especially with the BMWs. I'm mostly concerned that the silver will lose its zing to me more than would red, which is such a natural Ferrari color.
I am undecided about whether or not I'm "fly" enough for the yellow. I like the metallic phoenix yellow for the M3 quite a bit, but I'm just not sure if I could own one on an everyday basis. The Fly is less extreme I think, with a more classic flat yellow, but it's still a little stretch for my usual comfort zone.
I can't help but waffle between two points of view:
It's going to be my only Ferrari for the foreseeable future and so I should be careful to pick a color I can live with sensibly (like Titanium)
versus
Hey, its a Ferrari and I should push my personal boundaries with it. Get the damned Fly Yellow, for crying out loud.
It's funny though, this is the first car I've ever looked at where the potential universe of maintenance costs loom larger than the bid-ask spread in the selling price.
If any of you use kazaa, there is an excellent video segment from the BBC's Top Gear where Tiff Needell profiles the Tutte le Ferrari in Pista and the tifosi spirit. Well worth the download. Part II (which I haven't been able to find yet) has him taking part in the 360 Challenge. Also, his review of the 360 Modena is excellent (although I find almost all of his segments for Top Gear uniformly great- he clearly loves his cars and it shows in the videos).
Has anyone spent a lot of time with the F1? I'm curious as to what your thoughts are about living with it long-term as opposed to the manual gearbox. Other than short drives, on which it's very difficult to assess whether or not I'd really enjoy using it, I have no experience with either an F1 or its little cousin the SMG II box.
I erred on the side of conservatism against SMG, preferring the traditional stick, int he last car. However, if there was ever a car I'd could make the leap of faith with, this would be it. I'd love some advice from any of the experienced tifosi here. Thanks in advance.
Not likely someone will need 24 shirts at once, unless maybe he wears them while working on his Ferrari collection. I wish he had Ferrari underwear, I would have sprung for a pair.
Geez, I go away and suddenly the board becomes active. Should I take this personally? We're just back from Modena and still a little lagged, so please excuse any nonsensical statements. Not a lot to report. As expected, we couldn't get into the factory but at least got through the gates this year. At this rate, we'll get a tour in 2009.
They were testing a 360 Stradale at Fiorano while we were there. Great sounds and incredible speed. My guess was that they were playing with engine mapping as exhaust note and speed in corners would change noticabley after very short stops at the pit. Unfortunately we had to leave on the day that Schumi was there testing for Silverstone.
Regarding Silver, neither of my cars are red or yellow and I am quite happy with this. For one thing, they really stand out at events. I love the silver and the pewter as well. I've also seen the 360 in Azzurro blue and it is gorgeous.
Scipio1, you might be surprised at the maintenance costs. They really only become unbearable if you don't do the scheduled stuff and don't continue to look after the car. Maintenance isn't horrible, repairs will make you crazy.
Are you looking at a new or pre-owned car? If I can help, let me know.
Driving shoes. Look at the Fila "sneaker." They are great for driving, as well as being incredibley comfortable. They're available in tan (look like bowling shoes), blue and red. Check the Fila website.
The occasion was the classic car show and vintage races at NHIS my payback for putting up w two Winston Cup races. More on these magnificent cars when I have more time this PM.
Hopefully this link will work better. I wanted you to see this car because it's styling reflects an era in which European stylists were very much influenced by Americani, none more so than Italians.
Ferrari in particular had a number of different models that had fins and wrap around windshields etc. The Pininfarina bodies on the 4.9s show that the Italians with their sense of style and balance could do American better than Detroit could. This resulted in special body copncepts commisioned by Chrysler and Cadillac and in at least one production car, the Nash-Healey.
The 4.9, as pretty as it was, stood at the pinnacle of 1960 Italian street performance, as well as Ferrari luxury and style. Contrast that with today's philosophy under which the extreme performance Ferraris (Enzo, F40, F50, 288GTO) are as stark as race cars.
The two examples I saw were both owned by Lee Herrington who lives a few towns from NHIS, he owns the Herrington's catalog. One was dark blue the other was two tones with a white roof and turquoise body. Both were gorgeous, I suspect that one was the Prince Bernhard car from Pebble Beach '01 but I don't know which (it was black in '01).
I saw that car at Pebble, it is beautiful. I've seen several of the mid fifties Ferraris with American style fins. Some work, some don't. For what ever reason they all seem to be built on 400 or 410 SA chassis.
Pininfarina did a couple which are quite subtle and the design hangs together well. There is one, I think by Bertone, although I'm not sure, which looks alot like a mid fifties Plymouth. It truly is an ugly automobile. The proportions are just off.
In contrast, I also saw a couple of the Ghia bodied Caddys at Pebble. They're the same vintage as the Ferraris but are a marked contrast. The Cadillacs are beautiful, subtle curves. A design that just flows from one end to the other. Italy goes American and America goes Italian!
I was unaware that NHIS ran vintage racing events. I guess I need to get on their mailing list. I think I once told you that I was unsure where Loudon was. Of course I do. God, these senior moments are becoming more frequent.
If either of you are around, I would like to ask you something, because I need your help. If you don't know by now, I'm still a college junior- however, I will be studying in London for the upcoming fall semester. Since you both have been to Italy a number of times, and I am planning to go there on a weekend, I would love to hear your feedback on the country; i.e., places to go, cities, museums, restaurants, etc.
What I am interested in is this: seeing the Alfa Romeo, Fiat and Ferrari factories and looking to see if there are museums (free I hope) that I can visit. I keep hearing that Italy is an expensive country, since a friend of mine will be studying in Rome for the fall. So maybe I will have to travel on a tight budget if I go there- I'm still a broke student!
I'd love to hear what you have to say. Thanks very much.
Tsaupe - I'm in a looooooong drawn out process of looking for a pre-owned 360. Long because it's a real stretch for the budget (I mean, come on, it's a lot of cash to burn on a single item, no matter how beautiful), so I want to be cautious and prepared on an item I intend to keep forever.
I saw an ad for a light blue one in Hawaii that was just beautiful beyond words, but location and timing mean it's probably not on the final list of contenders. I was wondering if it made sense to try to find one or at least register it in South Carolina for the first 6 months-year. I've been told that the car sales tax maxes at $300 there, and so the delta between SC and California sales tax alone is astronomical and would more than justify renting a small place and keeping it there until sales taxes no longer applied. Has anyone heard of anything remotely like that? If it worked, it effectively gives me another $12,000 of buying power - not a trivial amount.
Lastly, is anyone planning to make the trip up to the Concorso Italiano in Monterrey this weekend? I figure I might drive up just to see and snap pictures of all of the Ferraris. I saw the parade of Ferraris two years ago in Carmel, and it was magnificent.
I can't help you. I may be Italian by ancestry and temperament but I have not yet actually been to Italy. I don't think you can go wrong wherever you go on the boot but don't ignore the mezzogiorno (south of Rome). My cousins took pictures of our ancestral village Santo Stefano di Castellemare on the north shore of Sicily and it looks as beautiful as any place I've ever seen.
You'll love Italy, but don't sell England short. London is one of my favorite places on earth, however, be forewarned, it is also one of the most expensive cities on earth. The Pound Sterling is quite strong against the dollar now and that doesn't help.
Having said that, and this goes for Italy as well, if you're careful, you can enjoy England and Italy on a tight budget. If you search out the restaurants, shops and activities that are off the beaten path, you'll save money and be able to really explore the area. Although we're perhaps on a little larger budget when we travel, my wife and I still do this and find it very rewarding.
Regarding Italy. It's a beautiful country and the Italian people are very friendly. They have a good rail system which makes it easy to get around. You must see Rome. It is the most expensive city in Italy (other than the Amalfie, in season)but you really shouldn't miss it. Again. follow the suggestion above and you'll be fine. Even in the most out of the way Mom and Pop trattoria or Pizzeria, we've never had a bad meal in Italy.
If you have the time, Florence (and Tuscany) and Venice (and the Veneto) are wonderful, as is the south coast. In the region between Tuscany and Veneto is the Emilia Romano. The best food in Italy can be found here and one of the least visited and most beautiful cities, Bologna.
For automobiles (here's where we get back to the thread) Alfas are built in Milan and yes, I'm almost positive there is a museum. Few museums in Italy are free, but admission is very inexpensive.
Maranello is pretty easy to get to. Take a train to Modena and then either rent a car or take a bus to Maranello. The central city for both these places is Bologna. Modena is a beautiful little city and the spiritual home to exotic cars. Lamborghini and Maserati are both built here (St. Agata is a suburb of Modena) and, of course, Ferrari started here. Check out the Ferrari monument just outside the old city.
There is the Galleria Ferrari in Maranello. A few blocks from the factory, it's really worth the visit. The exhibition changes often but there are always F1 cars, historic racers and road cars. Admission is around 5 Euros and well worth it. Walk to the end of the street or follow the sounds of the roaring engines and you can peek over the fence onto the Fiorano test track. If you're lucky you might catch Schumi testing. Maranello is a Ferrari theme park. Plan on spending a whole day to check out the shops and walk around the perimeter of the factory and Scuderia buildings.
If you're not an owner a tour is impossible. As a matter of fact, if you are an owner, a tour is next to impossible. We've been trying for two years now with no success.
Fiat, like Gm, had plants everywhere. I don't know about a museum, but you can probably find out on line.
Is this going to be your first Ferrari? Let me assume it is but if I'm "preaching to the choir" forgive me.
There are 360s around. I wouldn't bother with a car I'd have to ship to the main land. That color blue (azzurro) is pretty common. Assuming you're looking for a coupe and not a spider, you can probably find one with patience.
The most important piece of advise I can offer is don't buy anything without a PPI, a prepurchase inspection. Check out the owner sites, particularly Ferrari Chat and find out what problems current owners have had with their cars. Join the Ferrari Club of America and go to events where you can talk to owners. This is also a great place to find cars.
I haven't spent a great deal of time with the F1 gear box but I have had some owners tell me that they wished they had gone manual. I know that when the time comes (if ever) that I move up to a 550, a manual will be my choice. The gear box is just part of the Ferrari experience. IMHO it's also more trouble free in the long run because there's no software involved.
We can't make Concourso this year. We've been for the past three. Again, it's a great place to meet owners and really find out about the cars.
Regarding NC and taxes. I really can't comment. I live in Massachusetts and knew several people who lived here but registered their cars in NH for the same reason. It worked until the police started noticing that the cars never left Massachusetts. Of course, had they not had lead feet and were constantly being pulled over, maybe the police would never have noticed. On this note, don't think you won't be noticed in a 360!
We had a great experience tonight. We took the 328 to a local cruise night. A hundred or so cars and a real mish-mosh. We were parked between a '27 Cadillac open tourer (in concourse condition) and a Prowler. Perhaps that gives you an idea of the range of vehicles. Everything from hot rods (someday) to muscle cars, vettes and classics.
Anyway, we're always the only Ferrari there and the car gets its share of attention. Tonight a young kid, maybe twelve years old was just pouring over the car. He was there with his dad. According to him and verified by his father, he's been in love with Ferraris "forever."
I guess it struck a chord, but I ended up taking him for a ride. Just a few miles down the road, swooped up an interchange ramp and down the other side and back to the show. The excitement on his face and the extra wide smile just made my night. Evidently his first time sitting in and actually riding in his dream evidently made his as well. It struck me that this was what this car (for me) and these cars for all of us, are all about. Big smiles on kids faces, no matter how old the kid is.
Andys120, Sorry can't make your cruise night but if you're ever in the Worcester, MA area let me know. You've got a ride!
Did a charity ride/drive for Special Olympics last weekend. It was a motorcycle and car affair with 975 motorcycles (seriously) and about 20 cars. The most fun of the day? We spent the entire 2 hour drive behind an Enzo. I'm sure the owner wasn't terribly comfortable at the slow speeds, but I loved every minute of it. What a beautiful car!
I've finally figured out exactly what it was I saw them testing at Maranello this past July. It was the new 575 GTC. The factory is finally going to openly support sports car racing again, thanks to the success of the 550 in FIA and ALMS.
The new car is based on a 575M but with the engine displacement brought up to 6 liters and BHP up to 600. Looks mighty potent.
On another note, this month's Forza has drawings of the new 2+2. According to those who already have deposits on the car, it will look like the drawings (this according to the factory)and less like the heavily disguised test mule that has been photographed.
Can't get the link to work. I guess you have to be a subscriber. Can you give us a brief rundown?
Andys120, we were in your neck of the woods on Sunday for an FCA/NER meet. Questionable weather but great roads to drive on. Check out Ferrari Chat, Other Areas for some pics.
was more about the "car culture" of Southern California than about the 360 Modena. Apparently SoCal is the one place left where your high dollar sports car can serve the same function as pheromones .
It's a car culture where the ignoramuses equate Ferrari's and Lamborghinis because both are big bucks Italian exotics but then there aren't many places you can find the cognoscenti who know that one of those cars has a storied racing heritage and the other does not.
I suppose we have to give them credit for knowing a high bucks Italian GT when they see one, even if they aren't sure just what it is.
I hope you didn't get caught in the "goober race" traffic, Tom. The whole state was clogged with motorhomes (I took the back way to work).
We venerate celebrity and wealth; we regard narcissism with an unbegrudging heart, because Los Angeles is a city of possibilities, and—this is key—we believe it could be us. Opportunistic and ever optimistic, Angelenos thrive on a kind of certainty of upward mobility, that they will one day become rich, famous, beautiful, or at least notorious. We are karmic wildcatters.
Flashy cars give this city of American idolaters reason to hope, to hang on. I think it's why nobody seems to resent the Ferrari, which is among the most brazen status codpieces one could ever strap on. The design has a kind of heated animism about it, like a flaming arrowhead caught in high-speed photography. The car imposes itself on your consciousness. You cannot not look.
...
So my new friend and I get into the Ferrari. We drive for about a mile before I ask him if he wants to take the wheel. "Oh, man, oh, man . . . . " James is overcome. I pull over on Montana Avenue and give him a quick lesson, then off we go, north on PCH. Traffic is light and the weather cool. The car snarls in arpeggios of feral aggression as James works through the gears, the Ferrari lunging at the first stretch of open road it has seen in days, bouncing our heads off the headrests. "Whoooo! Oh man! Oh MAN!" James laughs like Colin Clive in "Frankenstein," unhinged with a wild joy.
"You know, I'm working on a movie deal this week," he shouts over the wind. "If it goes through, I could be driving one of these by Christmas."
...
In Los Angeles, however, there seems to be a kind of free-fire zone with regard to dating and automobiles. I have been mercilessly flirted with by both women and men all week. I park by a restaurant in Marina del Rey, and before I can get out, two teenage girls come over to bat their eyes and quiz me about the car. They ask me if it is a Lamborghini. They ask me if I am in the movie business.
...
I don't discount the fact that when women shopping on Rodeo Drive smile and wave at me they are hoping that I might actually be somebody, a nascent celebrity who has just made a splash at Cannes and who will, in due course, turn up on the cover of Vanity Fair. I should point out, in the interests of rigorous journalistic honestly, that I'm no Ashton Kutcher.
This is a place where the protocol of celebrity is well understood. And the power of driving an exotic car is precisely the same as the power of celebrity. Bruce Willis doesn't wait for a table; neither is the Ferrari consigned to the back row of a restaurant's valet parking.
"Apparently SoCal is the one place left where your high dollar sports car can serve the same function as pheromones .
It's a car culture where the ignoramuses equate Ferrari's and Lamborghinis because both are big bucks Italian exotics but then there aren't many places you can find the cognoscenti who know that one of those cars has a storied racing heritage and the other does not."
Andy, I'm surprised that you think either of these are unique to LA. My experience is that these are pretty universal.
that exotic sports cars are "chick magnets" outside of SoCal anymore and frankly I think they're right. At least based on the article the magnetism probably works stronger in the land of orange groves and smog.
The point of my comment about the ignorance of the casual onlooker to the heritage of Ferrari was that, although it's true everywhere, Angelenos are supposed to be car-savvy.
I wonder if LA is perhaps the last place you'd find anybody who really understood what a Ferrari stands for. (exceptions of course but just watching how they are driven tips me off). True, these cars did always have a bit of a playboy image, but those playboys were actually racing them at least.
LA celebrity/status culture reminds me of the Mississippi River...miles wide, about 3 feet deep and prone to pollution. I can hardly stand to look at what "status" did to Jaguar, the once-proud winner of LeMans now primarily in the luxury land barge business, driven by women named "Jewel" on shopping trips. Oh, my, may Ferrari be spared this fate! I'd rather see it dead in the wild than be a captive dancing bear in the circus.
A Ferrari is, if you think about it, a most inappropriate and inconvenient status symbol, since it really requires skill to drive one and much skill and $$$ to fix one. Most celebs or wannabees seeking status would be better off with a Fiero-based kit car. Or as someone said: "If you are going to cast pearls before swine, you might as well use artificial pearls, as the swine cannot tell the difference".
Funny thing---the ONLY time I ever won a woman's heart with a car (and I've owned or baby-sat some fairly flashy machines I think) was when I was driving an MGB!! Oh, the irony.
I'm sure for the gold-digging types an Escalade would work just as well (or as badly), for way less than 1/2 the price.
"I'm sure for the gold-digging types an Escalade would work just as well (or as badly), for way less than 1/2 the price."
Well, the vast majority of woman who are attracted to a man based on the fact that he is driving a Ferrari are not moved by an appreciation for the rich and glorious racing history. They are, for the most part, gold diggers. And I don't think that an Escalade would be nearly as effective because, as you noted, it costs less than half as much and it is also actually useful as an everyday vehicle. It is one thing to spend $60K on a vehicle that you can use to haul family, friends and clients around. Being able to spend over $200K on a vehicle that has no useful value, save entertainment (in its various forms) puts you in a whole 'nuther strata, wealth-wise.
I think the whole idea of women being attracted by cars is a myth and a fraud created solely to get guys to spend obscene sums of money. There have GOT to be far less expensive ways of attracting a lady's attention.
"Oh, I would have gone out with him because he is good-looking and funny and dresses well and has a good job and is smart and considerate but you know, when I saw his CAR, it just turned me off."
OR
"you know that fat obnoxious slimeball that asked me out...well, of course I said no...until...until...I saw his Ferrari parked outside...now I'm in love".
Hahahahaha...............
You can rent a Ferrari by the day, or you can lease say a used 355 for $700-800 a month. You can easily be a pretender in a very nice Ferrari.
Lessee...I personally know as friends (counting on his fingers) about 6, no 7 Ferrari owners and they are all excellent drivers who are now, or used to be, on the track. No swingin' bachelors either. (tho' maybe they'd like to be, I dunno).
But, okay, people do LOOK at you, I'll say that's true. What I'm not sure about is what they are really thinking.
when I was a kid and I'd see an old geezer in a Ferrari, I'd think "what a waste." This, while I was tooling around in a then 10 year old Lotus held together with racer's tape. Kids probably think exactly that when they see this old geezer in his Ferrari.
For the ricers, I'm a notch on their belt and bragging rights after they've "blown my doors off" at the stoplight Grand Prix. (always remind myself that my clutch costs more than their car).
And the only time a woman ever flirted with me over the car, I didn't realize she was flirting until I was a couple of miles down the road. I really don't want to consider what that means!
Best thing to tell a hot rod Honda if you're driving a Ferrari is "okay, we'll race, but from 135 to 175mph." After all, why race under conditions which only favor your opponent but don't address what your car was built for, the very top end?
The only thing I'd swap with a Honda owner is his repair bills.
I have been lucky enough to have had a 575 for a little over two months now and I can say it is an absolutely awesome car that can be used every day. It is midnight blu mettalic (blu tdf) with natural tan interior, stick shift with the fiorano handling pack. In my opinon the perfect spec and colour combo for this car but obvisouly i am a little biased. If you see me in Manhattan give me a wave. I commute in it every day, come rain or shine and (touch wood)have had no problems with it at all. Actually the only problem I had was that it was delivered without the front license plate fitted and practically every time I left the city through a bridge of tunnel I got pulled over. I guess that was asking for trouble, so I eventually had the license plate fitted and although it doesn't look as good it feels good not to be a huge target for cops wanting to give a poor ferrari driver a tough time. Anyway I just wanted to let any folks thinking of getting one of these that it is awesome, awesome awesome. It is great to drive, the clutch is precise and easy to use, the engine has a whirring roar and you have enough torque to smoke pretty much anyone in any gear. Last but not least sitting in this car has a great sense of occasion. The suspension is firm with the handling pack but it feels good at speed. The only time the supsension feels really firm is on some stretches of madison avenue that have so many potholes and big metal plates covering the road that it feels like you are driving down main street in kabul. Does anyone have a 575 without the fiorano pack ? What is the suspension like ? Happy driving.
Comments
We'll be in Maranello/Modena for only a few days as we're ending our vacation at the British Grand Prix. At present it looks like our application to tour the factory will come to not. Evidently we applied too late. They only give English language tours on certain days and our schedule meant we only had one opportunity to go. Oh well, maybe next year, or maybe a late fax if someone cancels.
We're still planning a tour of Lamborghini up the road in St Agata, and who knows what we'll see at Fiorano and on the roads around Maranello. Last year we were very lucky.
Anyway, upon our return I'll share what ever exciting news and experiences seem appropriate. I only wish there were some way to post pics here at Edmunds.
Have a great July everyone! "See you" at the end of the month.
Tom
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The first issue has an interesting cover story about two of Giotto Bizzarrini's designs, the Ferrari 250 GTO and the Iso Grifo A3/C (later known as the Bizzarrini GT). There are some good insights and driving impressions of the cars.
-According to the article the 250 GT SWB was developed into the GTO after Ferrari's Sales Manager saw the E-Type at Geneva. He told the racing department that the new Jag looked capable of blowing away the SWB.
-Bizzarrrini told the magazine that he felt the small block Chevy 327 in competition form was a better engine than the famous 3-liter V12.
More good stuff in Octane, probably not on your local newsstand, I got mine @ Border's.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Bizzarrini made a mistake when he opted to leave Ferrari after the 1961 Purge of Gardini, Chiti and others to work for them at ATS.
The departure of all that talent proved to be a disaster for all concerned, especially Ferrari.
Speaking of boo-boos, Giralamo Gardini's assessment of the E-Type as a potential Ferrari eater was never borne out by developments. Had Jaguar more resources things might have been different.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
One thing the V-12 had over the Chevy 327 was endurance. The sheer ruggedness of Ferrari engines won it a lot of races, even over more powerful cars. Corvettes, for instance, never did well in International racing, and I don't believe a 327 Chevy ever won at Lemans.
Nowadays, a Chevy mill powering this or that vintage race car can clean up in vintage racing because you can cheat (or legally modify) so easily and cheaply, whereas you can't buy illegal or go-fast racing bits for some of this exotic 30-40 year old Italian machinery.
So modern day comparisons aren't really very fair.
The thing is, I have a titanium silver M3, and I'm beginning to feel that the color is a little plain, and I almost regret not getting it in an Imola Red or a custom Estoril Blue.
Let me ask you all a question: do you think Titanium will age as well on the Modena as would Rosso Corso or Fly Yellow? Even if you liked it better now, do you think you might regret not getting a "classic" color later on? Especially if you felt that you would be unlikely to ever sell the car for another Ferrari.
It's still the most beautiful car I ever laid eyes on.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I wasn't much a "car nut" kid before then, but my eyes must have gotten wide as saucers looking at that black beast of a coupe, with its spoiler and ground effects like nothing I'd ever seen before. That M3 changed my whole perspective on cars. I'll never forget that moment, and I have no doubt it's why I've been such an M3 freak ever since.
I envy you... I had to GROW into a love for Ferraris.
Seriously though, your story about the Lusso... awesome. You just can't explain that sort of feeling to someone who just doesn't 'get' it the same way you do.
almost 21 but just really becoming a gear head. I was bumming a ride back to college up the Quickway
(NYS 17) in the Catskills which is almost Autobahn-like when the Lusso swept by us. I had seen Ferraris before cuz I used to go over to the West Side of Manhattan and peek in the windows at Chinetti Motors, at the time America's largest Ferrari Dealer (Chinetti was the US distributor).
The silver Lusso had Italian license plates and I caught a glimpse of the driver, a squat older man who could have been Il Commendatore himself. Of course it wasn't, Ol' Enzo seldom left Maranello let alone Italy. But the car made a huge impression on me. I was a tifosi for life.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I am undecided about whether or not I'm "fly" enough for the yellow. I like the metallic phoenix yellow for the M3 quite a bit, but I'm just not sure if I could own one on an everyday basis. The Fly is less extreme I think, with a more classic flat yellow, but it's still a little stretch for my usual comfort zone.
I can't help but waffle between two points of view:
It's going to be my only Ferrari for the foreseeable future and so I should be careful to pick a color I can live with sensibly (like Titanium)
versus
Hey, its a Ferrari and I should push my personal boundaries with it. Get the damned Fly Yellow, for crying out loud.
It's funny though, this is the first car I've ever looked at where the potential universe of maintenance costs loom larger than the bid-ask spread in the selling price.
If any of you use kazaa, there is an excellent video segment from the BBC's Top Gear where Tiff Needell profiles the Tutte le Ferrari in Pista and the tifosi spirit. Well worth the download. Part II (which I haven't been able to find yet) has him taking part in the 360 Challenge. Also, his review of the 360 Modena is excellent (although I find almost all of his segments for Top Gear uniformly great- he clearly loves his cars and it shows in the videos).
I erred on the side of conservatism against SMG, preferring the traditional stick, int he last car. However, if there was ever a car I'd could make the leap of faith with, this would be it. I'd love some advice from any of the experienced tifosi here. Thanks in advance.
Are there such things as driving shoes?
http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=55295
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
They were testing a 360 Stradale at Fiorano while we were there. Great sounds and incredible speed. My guess was that they were playing with engine mapping as exhaust note and speed in corners would change noticabley after very short stops at the pit. Unfortunately we had to leave on the day that Schumi was there testing for Silverstone.
Regarding Silver, neither of my cars are red or yellow and I am quite happy with this. For one thing, they really stand out at events. I love the silver and the pewter as well. I've also seen the 360 in Azzurro blue and it is gorgeous.
Scipio1, you might be surprised at the maintenance costs. They really only become unbearable if you don't do the scheduled stuff and don't continue to look after the car. Maintenance isn't horrible, repairs will make you crazy.
Are you looking at a new or pre-owned car? If I can help, let me know.
Driving shoes. Look at the Fila "sneaker." They are great for driving, as well as being incredibley comfortable. They're available in tan (look like bowling shoes), blue and red. Check the Fila website.
Tom
this weekend. The link goes to a picture of one of the very cars I saw....
href="http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0725GT.- - - 4.9.Superfast.htm" target=_blank>http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0725GT.4.9.Su- perfast.htm
The occasion was the classic car show and vintage races at NHIS
my payback for putting up w two Winston Cup races. More on these magnificent cars when I have more time this PM.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Hopefully this link will work better. I wanted you to see this car because it's styling reflects an era in which European stylists were very much influenced by Americani, none more so than Italians.
Ferrari in particular had a number of different models that had fins and wrap around windshields etc. The Pininfarina bodies on the 4.9s
show that the Italians with their sense of style and balance could do American better than Detroit could. This resulted in special body copncepts commisioned by Chrysler and Cadillac and in at least one production car, the Nash-Healey.
The 4.9, as pretty as it was, stood at the pinnacle of 1960 Italian street performance, as well as Ferrari luxury and style. Contrast that with today's philosophy under which the extreme performance Ferraris (Enzo, F40, F50, 288GTO) are as stark as race cars.
The two examples I saw were both owned by Lee Herrington who lives a few towns from NHIS, he owns the Herrington's catalog. One was dark blue the other was two tones with a white roof and turquoise body. Both were gorgeous, I suspect that one was the Prince Bernhard car from Pebble Beach '01 but I don't know which (it was black in '01).
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I saw that car at Pebble, it is beautiful. I've seen several of the mid fifties Ferraris with American style fins. Some work, some don't. For what ever reason they all seem to be built on 400 or 410 SA chassis.
Pininfarina did a couple which are quite subtle and the design hangs together well. There is one, I think by Bertone, although I'm not sure, which looks alot like a mid fifties Plymouth. It truly is an ugly automobile. The proportions are just off.
In contrast, I also saw a couple of the Ghia bodied Caddys at Pebble. They're the same vintage as the Ferraris but are a marked contrast. The Cadillacs are beautiful, subtle curves. A design that just flows from one end to the other. Italy goes American and America goes Italian!
I was unaware that NHIS ran vintage racing events. I guess I need to get on their mailing list. I think I once told you that I was unsure where Loudon was. Of course I do. God, these senior moments are becoming more frequent.
Tom
What I am interested in is this: seeing the Alfa Romeo, Fiat and Ferrari factories and looking to see if there are museums (free I hope) that I can visit. I keep hearing that Italy is an expensive country, since a friend of mine will be studying in Rome for the fall. So maybe I will have to travel on a tight budget if I go there- I'm still a broke student!
I'd love to hear what you have to say. Thanks very much.
Tsaupe - I'm in a looooooong drawn out process of looking for a pre-owned 360. Long because it's a real stretch for the budget (I mean, come on, it's a lot of cash to burn on a single item, no matter how beautiful), so I want to be cautious and prepared on an item I intend to keep forever.
I saw an ad for a light blue one in Hawaii that was just beautiful beyond words, but location and timing mean it's probably not on the final list of contenders. I was wondering if it made sense to try to find one or at least register it in South Carolina for the first 6 months-year. I've been told that the car sales tax maxes at $300 there, and so the delta between SC and California sales tax alone is astronomical and would more than justify renting a small place and keeping it there until sales taxes no longer applied. Has anyone heard of anything remotely like that? If it worked, it effectively gives me another $12,000 of buying power - not a trivial amount.
Lastly, is anyone planning to make the trip up to the Concorso Italiano in Monterrey this weekend? I figure I might drive up just to see and snap pictures of all of the Ferraris. I saw the parade of Ferraris two years ago in Carmel, and it was magnificent.
I plan to visit. buon viaggio
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
You'll love Italy, but don't sell England short. London is one of my favorite places on earth, however, be forewarned, it is also one of the most expensive cities on earth. The Pound Sterling is quite strong against the dollar now and that doesn't help.
Having said that, and this goes for Italy as well, if you're careful, you can enjoy England and Italy on a tight budget. If you search out the restaurants, shops and activities that are off the beaten path, you'll save money and be able to really explore the area. Although we're perhaps on a little larger budget when we travel, my wife and I still do this and find it very rewarding.
Regarding Italy. It's a beautiful country and the Italian people are very friendly. They have a good rail system which makes it easy to get around. You must see Rome. It is the most expensive city in Italy (other than the Amalfie, in season)but you really shouldn't miss it. Again. follow the suggestion above and you'll be fine. Even in the most out of the way Mom and Pop trattoria or Pizzeria, we've never had a bad meal in Italy.
If you have the time, Florence (and Tuscany) and Venice (and the Veneto) are wonderful, as is the south coast. In the region between Tuscany and Veneto is the Emilia Romano. The best food in Italy can be found here and one of the least visited and most beautiful cities, Bologna.
For automobiles (here's where we get back to the thread) Alfas are built in Milan and yes, I'm almost positive there is a museum. Few museums in Italy are free, but admission is very inexpensive.
Maranello is pretty easy to get to. Take a train to Modena and then either rent a car or take a bus to Maranello. The central city for both these places is Bologna. Modena is a beautiful little city and the spiritual home to exotic cars. Lamborghini and Maserati are both built here (St. Agata is a suburb of Modena) and, of course, Ferrari started here. Check out the Ferrari monument just outside the old city.
There is the Galleria Ferrari in Maranello. A few blocks from the factory, it's really worth the visit. The exhibition changes often but there are always F1 cars, historic racers and road cars. Admission is around 5 Euros and well worth it. Walk to the end of the street or follow the sounds of the roaring engines and you can peek over the fence onto the Fiorano test track. If you're lucky you might catch Schumi testing. Maranello is a Ferrari theme park. Plan on spending a whole day to check out the shops and walk around the perimeter of the factory and Scuderia buildings.
If you're not an owner a tour is impossible. As a matter of fact, if you are an owner, a tour is next to impossible. We've been trying for two years now with no success.
Fiat, like Gm, had plants everywhere. I don't know about a museum, but you can probably find out on line.
If you need more info, feel free to email me.
Hope this helps, enjoy the semester.
Tom
Is this going to be your first Ferrari? Let me assume it is but if I'm "preaching to the choir" forgive me.
There are 360s around. I wouldn't bother with a car I'd have to ship to the main land. That color blue (azzurro) is pretty common. Assuming you're looking for a coupe and not a spider, you can probably find one with patience.
The most important piece of advise I can offer is don't buy anything without a PPI, a prepurchase inspection. Check out the owner sites, particularly Ferrari Chat and find out what problems current owners have had with their cars. Join the Ferrari Club of America and go to events where you can talk to owners. This is also a great place to find cars.
I haven't spent a great deal of time with the F1 gear box but I have had some owners tell me that they wished they had gone manual. I know that when the time comes (if ever) that I move up to a 550, a manual will be my choice. The gear box is just part of the Ferrari experience. IMHO it's also more trouble free in the long run because there's no software involved.
We can't make Concourso this year. We've been for the past three. Again, it's a great place to meet owners and really find out about the cars.
Regarding NC and taxes. I really can't comment. I live in Massachusetts and knew several people who lived here but registered their cars in NH for the same reason. It worked until the police started noticing that the cars never left Massachusetts. Of course, had they not had lead feet and were constantly being pulled over, maybe the police would never have noticed. On this note, don't think you won't be noticed in a 360!
Hope this helps.
Tom
Anyway, we're always the only Ferrari there and the car gets its share of attention. Tonight a young kid, maybe twelve years old was just pouring over the car. He was there with his dad. According to him and verified by his father, he's been in love with Ferraris "forever."
I guess it struck a chord, but I ended up taking him for a ride. Just a few miles down the road, swooped up an interchange ramp and down the other side and back to the show. The excitement on his face and the extra wide smile just made my night. Evidently his first time sitting in and actually riding in his dream evidently made his as well. It struck me that this was what this car (for me) and these cars for all of us, are all about. Big smiles on kids faces, no matter how old the kid is.
Tom
M
BTW-There's a cruise night in my town every Friday night (hint).
-Old kid who has never ridden in a Ferrari
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Did a charity ride/drive for Special Olympics last weekend. It was a motorcycle and car affair with 975 motorcycles (seriously) and about 20 cars. The most fun of the day? We spent the entire 2 hour drive behind an Enzo. I'm sure the owner wasn't terribly comfortable at the slow speeds, but I loved every minute of it. What a beautiful car!
Any luck with a 360 yet? Did you make it to Concourso Italiano?
Tom
The new car is based on a 575M but with the engine displacement brought up to 6 liters and BHP up to 600. Looks mighty potent.
On another note, this month's Forza has drawings of the new 2+2. According to those who already have deposits on the car, it will look like the drawings (this according to the factory)and less like the heavily disguised test mule that has been photographed.
It actually says more about LA than the Spyder, but it's fun to read anyway.
Of course, the real estate agent he lets drive the Ferrari is working on a movie deal. Everyone in LA is working on a movie deal...
Andys120, we were in your neck of the woods on Sunday for an FCA/NER meet. Questionable weather but great roads to drive on. Check out Ferrari Chat, Other Areas for some pics.
Tom
It's a car culture where the ignoramuses equate Ferrari's and Lamborghinis because both are big bucks Italian exotics but then there aren't many places you can find the cognoscenti who know that one of those cars has a storied racing heritage and the other does not.
I suppose we have to give them credit for knowing a high bucks Italian GT when they see one, even if they aren't sure just what it is.
I hope you didn't get caught in the "goober race" traffic, Tom. The whole state was clogged with motorhomes (I took the back way to work).
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I think these quotes sum it up:
We venerate celebrity and wealth; we regard narcissism with an unbegrudging heart, because Los Angeles is a city of possibilities, and—this is key—we believe it could be us. Opportunistic and ever optimistic, Angelenos thrive on a kind of certainty of upward mobility, that they will one day become rich, famous, beautiful, or at least notorious. We are karmic wildcatters.
Flashy cars give this city of American idolaters reason to hope, to hang on. I think it's why nobody seems to resent the Ferrari, which is among the most brazen status codpieces one could ever strap on. The design has a kind of heated animism about it, like a flaming arrowhead caught in high-speed photography. The car imposes itself on your consciousness. You cannot not look.
...
So my new friend and I get into the Ferrari. We drive for about a mile before I ask him if he wants to take the wheel. "Oh, man, oh, man . . . . " James is overcome. I pull over on Montana Avenue and give him a quick lesson, then off we go, north on PCH. Traffic is light and the weather cool. The car snarls in arpeggios of feral aggression as James works through the gears, the Ferrari lunging at the first stretch of open road it has seen in days, bouncing our heads off the headrests. "Whoooo! Oh man! Oh MAN!" James laughs like Colin Clive in "Frankenstein," unhinged with a wild joy.
"You know, I'm working on a movie deal this week," he shouts over the wind. "If it goes through, I could be driving one of these by Christmas."
...
In Los Angeles, however, there seems to be a kind of free-fire zone with regard to dating and automobiles. I have been mercilessly flirted with by both women and men all week. I park by a restaurant in Marina del Rey, and before I can get out, two teenage girls come over to bat their eyes and quiz me about the car. They ask me if it is a Lamborghini. They ask me if I am in the movie business.
...
I don't discount the fact that when women shopping on Rodeo Drive smile and wave at me they are hoping that I might actually be somebody, a nascent celebrity who has just made a splash at Cannes and who will, in due course, turn up on the cover of Vanity Fair. I should point out, in the interests of rigorous journalistic honestly, that I'm no Ashton Kutcher.
This is a place where the protocol of celebrity is well understood. And the power of driving an exotic car is precisely the same as the power of celebrity. Bruce Willis doesn't wait for a table; neither is the Ferrari consigned to the back row of a restaurant's valet parking.
It's a car culture where the ignoramuses equate Ferrari's and Lamborghinis because both are big bucks Italian exotics but then there aren't many places you can find the cognoscenti who know that one of those cars has a storied racing heritage and the other does not."
Andy, I'm surprised that you think either of these are unique to LA. My experience is that these are pretty universal.
The point of my comment about the ignorance of the casual onlooker to the heritage of Ferrari was that, although it's true everywhere, Angelenos are supposed to be car-savvy.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
LA celebrity/status culture reminds me of the Mississippi River...miles wide, about 3 feet deep and prone to pollution. I can hardly stand to look at what "status" did to Jaguar, the once-proud winner of LeMans now primarily in the luxury land barge business, driven by women named "Jewel" on shopping trips. Oh, my, may Ferrari be spared this fate! I'd rather see it dead in the wild than be a captive dancing bear in the circus.
A Ferrari is, if you think about it, a most inappropriate and inconvenient status symbol, since it really requires skill to drive one and much skill and $$$ to fix one. Most celebs or wannabees seeking status would be better off with a Fiero-based kit car. Or as someone said: "If you are going to cast pearls before swine, you might as well use artificial pearls, as the swine cannot tell the difference".
Funny thing---the ONLY time I ever won a woman's heart with a car (and I've owned or baby-sat some fairly flashy machines I think) was when I was driving an MGB!! Oh, the irony.
I'm sure for the gold-digging types an Escalade would work just as well (or as badly), for way less than 1/2 the price.
There was a car with something for both sexes. Women liked it's loong protruding ..er..shape and guys liked it's beautifully curved rear..um..fenders.
Excuse me while I go try to figure out if I care why Ben and J Lo are breaking up.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Well, the vast majority of woman who are attracted to a man based on the fact that he is driving a Ferrari are not moved by an appreciation for the rich and glorious racing history. They are, for the most part, gold diggers. And I don't think that an Escalade would be nearly as effective because, as you noted, it costs less than half as much and it is also actually useful as an everyday vehicle. It is one thing to spend $60K on a vehicle that you can use to haul family, friends and clients around. Being able to spend over $200K on a vehicle that has no useful value, save entertainment (in its various forms) puts you in a whole 'nuther strata, wealth-wise.
"Oh, I would have gone out with him because he is good-looking and funny and dresses well and has a good job and is smart and considerate but you know, when I saw his CAR, it just turned me off."
OR
"you know that fat obnoxious slimeball that asked me out...well, of course I said no...until...until...I saw his Ferrari parked outside...now I'm in love".
Hahahahaha...............
You can rent a Ferrari by the day, or you can lease say a used 355 for $700-800 a month. You can easily be a pretender in a very nice Ferrari.
Lessee...I personally know as friends (counting on his fingers) about 6, no 7 Ferrari owners and they are all excellent drivers who are now, or used to be, on the track. No swingin' bachelors either. (tho' maybe they'd like to be, I dunno).
But, okay, people do LOOK at you, I'll say that's true. What I'm not sure about is what they are really thinking.
For the ricers, I'm a notch on their belt and bragging rights after they've "blown my doors off" at the stoplight Grand Prix. (always remind myself that my clutch costs more than their car).
And the only time a woman ever flirted with me over the car, I didn't realize she was flirting until I was a couple of miles down the road. I really don't want to consider what that means!
Tom
The only thing I'd swap with a Honda owner is his repair bills.
(must....control.....jealousy...........CONTROL)
Just kidding
Come join us in the Ferrari topic, we need new blood there. Seems like people would rather talk Daewoos than Ferraris(?)
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93