It's amazing how slight change of lines and slopes will do for appearances. I thought the '04 Ody had the best looking rear end. It reminds me of that boxy "BMW-look". The '04 Sienna copied that look and made it slightly more rounded, but still very similar. For now, without seeing the finished product, I think the front and rear of the new Ody are a mismatch. For some reasons, I think the front end reminds me of the Acura RL and the rear end reminds me of the Nissan Quest.
I think Honda/Acura needs a seperate designer for the front and rear end. I like the front end of the RL and Accord, but I do not like the rear end very much. Same here with the Ody; front end is beautiful, but back end looks very weird. If the front end looks like the RL in terms of chrome grille, it will be a masterpiece on the front end.
I would have liked the rear end of the old Ody and the new front end put together. But, no. That would make my decisions way too easy.
Now for me it's like, beautiful Front end + awesome NAV and instrument panel of the Ody or woodtrim, gated shifter, better side and rear view of the Sienna? If Toyota would give the Sienna the front end looks of the LS 430 and the NAV+ instrument panel of the LS 430, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Well, not that fast, but close:-)
Well, okay, I think that rear end of the Ody is staring to grow on me. I just have to take the Ody's looks as a whole. The front looks great. The side looks pretty good, and the rear end is not that bad. It looks promising. I hope Honda doesn't make us buy cross-bars to go with the roof-rack like they did with the old Ody. So I like it overall, just like most people so far.
On balance, this is probably going to be the best looking van on the market. It has an aggressively wide, low stance, lower than Sienna, with a shorter front overhang, a blunt, rounded, front, eliminating the pinched and pointed look of the '04 van, and it has a modern high belt line, giving it a substantial, safe look. If imitation is the sincerest flattery, the character crease on the sides is all but identical to Chrysler's, but the high belt line allows Honda to position the door handles above the crease rather than below like the Chrysler. The only discordant element is the sliding door track which, although more effectively hidden, appears to end at the intersection of about four other seams, and the effect is oddly dimpled looking.
With regard to the exterior, I think the 2004 Nissan Quest looks much better than this 2005 Odyssey. It looks more like a Chrysler at this point! On the interior, Nissan needs to improve on material quality. I don't like the instrument layout being in the middle and think the Odyssey instrument layout will be better.
In my opinion, the '05 Ody looks like an inflated '04 Mazda MPV. Styling-wise, that is ok. The MPV is nice looking and is a true minivan. Second row roll-down windows and a power moonroof have long been offered by Mazda. But not popular with folks looking for more cargo/passenger room.
It would be something else if the new Ody offered a Mazda-sized moonroof. I am assuming the Honda moonroof will be comparable in size to the current moonroof in the MDX. There seems to be speculation that the moonroof will only be offered in the Touring model.
Will there be a Touring model that offers a moonroof and DVD, but no navigation / rear camera? Will Honda offer rear park assist as a cheaper alternative to a rear camera?
I'm confused, some people are saying that the new ody is the japanese Honda Elision, but then other people are saying it's totally different, like a Mazda MPV SO..... which is the real design (I hope it's the latter one)
So I see that the new Ody will not be built on a brand new platform - Just a carry over, improved version of the current Ody. (#1661 Article)
The only good part of that news is that we don't have to be afraid that much of first year bugs - with the exception for the new VCM engine.
I also don't like the rear end at all - it looks very similar to the current Ody - which I don't like either. I like the rear-end of domestic models better, but the Siennas rear end (and rear end only) looks pretty nice, too.
See that high mounted stop lamp on top of the rear window? Still the old Ody type. Sienna has now nice LED lamps which is much more modern, nice and effective. Even Ford did it with the new Freestar, and added those LED lamps which are beautiful.
Honda also moved the liftgate handle and hide it, probably like the Sienna and Chrysler minivans. I do like more the liftgate handle of the Freestar - it's the most comfortable in my opinion. I don't like those electronic openers...
The photo from theHollywoodExtra.com was photo-shopped. Look at the headlight, and compared it with the clearer masked headlights of the prior photos. The former is too "angular". There are lots of photo-shopped photos on that site. Enjoy them, but don't be fooled.
I think 40% of people will pay MSRP, 40% of people will pay $500 below invoice, and 20% of people will pay $1,000 below invoice on the 1st day of launch. The reason is Toyota will give people plenty of discounts to win over customers who are just not willing to pay more than they want.
IF it is as nice as I expect (the interior mostly), and they keep prices level with '04, it is a reasonable value at MSRP. If there are deals within 1-2 month at 1000 of MSRP, be thankful. Don't expect to be paying 2K off sticker this year.
Like the man said, what Honda dealers can do depends on how aggressive Toyota is, and whether Honda artificially holds back the supply. Best bet for buyers is they both produce as many vans as possible and fight for dominance.
msrp first but discounts after few months. Honda has more than tripled the capacity to build odyssey so I don't think there will be great shortage like they did before.
I agree. It will be MSRP for a few months to satisfy those "must-have it first" people. Then, the tide would subside to a couple thousands off MSRP.
Last time, Odyssey beat up Sienna badly by - larger engine 3.5L vs 3.0L - folding 3rd row seats - larger interior room - independent suspension, all disk brakes, 5-speed auto - overall value for less (MSRP to MSRP)
This time, the difference is narrowing. I don't think Toyota enjoy being beat up twice in a row. Unless Honda has something in their sleeves that we are not aware of this time. How about? - disappearing 2rd seats (rumored) - skylight (those in Quest) - what not copy from Nissan?! - roll-down 3rd windows (seem unlikely from spy photos) - anything else?
Will the new Odyssey be built at plant other than Lincoln, Alabama? That plant has annual capacity of 120,000 units (10,000 per month). For the past May, 2004, Honda sold 16,000+ units of Odyssey. There will be your initial supply problem for the new Odyssey. Anyone care to comment on that? Keep in mind that the Honda's new truck SUT would be available next year (2006 model). They also need capacity for that.
...of the '04 and '05 Ody by someone on OdyClub shows very little differences between the two including overall size, shape, and curve lines. The only difference I see is that the '05 looks much better at the front and the '04 looks much better at the back end.
As far as prices go, if I can get $5K off MSRP on a Sienna Limited w/NAV+RES and only $1K off MSRP on the Ody Touring w/NAV+RES, I would get the Sienna anyday especially now that I THINK Honda has screwed up the back end of the Ody.
But I will definitely use the '05 Ody as leverage on the negotiation.
To me the Sienna looks so much more aerodynamic and smooth while the Ody looks very bulky, boxy, and heavy. I still like the front end, but that's about it. From what I can see, I think the interior looks alright, but nothing special--nothing that I would pay MSRP or even $2K under MSRP for.
Hi, Andrew: $5K off XLE Limited Navi+RES Sienna? Is it really going to happen? I just priced it at $1600 off MSRP from carsdirect.com. I would be tempted also. $5K off is below invoice by $1k.
before you go thinking they hosed the car by messing with the back end - why not wait for the real thing?
and you think the Sienna is more aerodynamic looking. really?
you won't need to leverage it to buy the Sienna. deep down, you prefer the ODY.
if not, why are you waiting? be honest with yourself. to get a better deal on the Sienna?
anyway, you know you *really* like the big NAV display in the ODY pic you've seen...you'll be buying the ODY - maybe just for that alone. you know you will. maybe they'll toss in some wood trim too for good measure.
back to the NAV - this is a major item for you.
and as for tossing stuff in - don't you think it will have other ingredients the Sienna has, but probably standard?
hope you realize i'm just having some fun. it will be interesting to see the real vehicle configuration won't it?
Capacity of the Lincoln, AL plant was doubled to 300,000 vehicles in mid-May. See article at http://www.hondanews.com/CatID1008?mid=2004050740461&mime=asc The Pilot is also being built in Alabama, but it is mainly built in Canada, so it appears that there is plenty of capacity to meet demand once they get the kinks out of the process.
If they come out the gate with 12,000+/month, with production increasing into next year, that should take care of the initial demand bulge, and get units in stock fairly quickly. Good news for the consumer, when combined with Toyotas 150.000+ annual output of Siennas.
It is the case of accord vs camry again..boring and reliable. The decision will come down to: who is the cheaper..of the two plump girls..where is Paris Hilton!!!
Automotive News (today) has the same '05 Ody spy photo on its cover that we have been seeing the last few days. For those of you who don't know, AN is the dealer bible publication. Interestingly, the caption below the photo mentions a new little factoid- "Honda engineers added interior space by making the minivan WIDER." Have fun with that info guys....
TOV Reader 'Konga' submitted these three shots of the '05 Odyssey. It appears to be the same touring model that was caught by Chris Doane in the earlier pics.
Kongo writes: I spied the same '05 Odyssey test mule on the road near Honda's NA HQ here in Torrance.
It has "Ohio Mfg" plates, and inside were two guys in matching Honda polo shirts. I rolled up next to them at red light (I was driving my '03 Odyssey) and motioned for the passenger to roll down the window. He did so and I asked, "Is that the '05 Odyssey?" He quickly rolled up the window and looked straight ahead!
I was looking at the spy photos and suddenly it hit me.
- The 2nd row window has two parts. The front part can be rolled down. The second part is also glass (hidden frame under) but fixed like today's version. Basically, it has hidden frame unlike the Sienna's. The Odyssey's design makes it look slick like current version while still have roll-down windows.
- 3rd window could be even more interesting. I guess it also has two parts. Front part is fixed glass like what we have today. The second part could be a power-flipped out triangle window/ or a roll-down triangle window. Otherwise, why would Honda mask out that part specifically and completely. There must be something new to it that Honda don't want competitors (and us) to see.
Any comments? Just my observations plus wild guesses.
In a few weeks, all will be known. Maybe sooner, the way spy shots are starting to leak out. Maybe that will push Honda to get the official info out sooner.
I assume they must have just about wrapped up production of the '04s to prep for the '05 job 1 date. Wonder how soon they will start becoming scarce on dealer lots, with a little uptick in prices?
I was talking to one Honda dealer in RI about the 2005 Odyssey. We were first talking are a great discount on 2004 model. They are selling at dealer's invoice prices plus $20 document fees. He told dealers are always last to find out the new releases. My brother wants to wait for 2005 model (second child due in December) with a sunroof, leather and navigation. Any idea what trim that will be? Touring?
I think those pictures of the '05 on the road are great. How sneaky! Question, what exactly is a touring model? Is it more sporty? All I want is leather, dvd, and nav. What will the touring package have to make it better than that? All I know is that I'm just waiting and putting on more miles on my '01 lease end on 8/6. Of course I extended it month to month with 1,000 miles, and I can't wait for the '05. I really hope it's worth waiting for. The Odyssey is a super van, and I just drove it to Syracuse from central Jersey, and it was teriffic. I still love driving it after 40,000 miles, next to my husband's Acura TL-S '02.
Would be nice if the red lenses on the rear door were also brake lights and the center high mounted brake light was twice as wide and twice as bright. Anyone else care? Any thoughts on ease of adding brake bulbs one self?
Don’t take me wrong. I’m a Honda fan and had several Hondas in the past. So when I decided to buy a new minivan this year, I naturally waited for the “redesigned” Odyssey.
After the month-long waiting, yesterday I saw the leaked photos. I am disappointed! I am disappointed at the Odyssey, Honda and some posts here.
The new Odyssey’s front is plain, the rear is ugly, and the side is weird. The interior? Not sure, they tried to keep as top nuclear secret. But I won’t be surprised there’s nothing interesting there. Overall, this is 04 design carried over to 05 and being called “All New”.
Disappointing!
Though there is one or two thoughtful doubts mixed here there in the posts, they are quickly shot down by blind enthusiasm. That explains why despite the waves of calling Honda to bring the Japanese styled design to America, they simply don’t bother. Why spend money on a new design when a reskined old car sure is welcomed unquestionably?
Long ago, I heard the story Honda only sells top-class car in domestic market. America/ Europe got second-class, and the rest got garbage. I had my doubt. The doubt is reality to me.
Keep the good comments on. See what kinda Honda garbage will bring us next.
I think it is a stretch to cal lthe current van "garbage" (which you are if the new one will be, and it is mostly a carry over). The '04 still does well in comparison tests to the Sienna if that's worth anything. Change for change sake isn't always the way to go (just ask Nissan how well that works out). If nothing else, the majority of minivan buyers aren't looking for high style.
As to the spy pics, I believe all the vans shot have had some camo on. You would be surprised what a few pieces of tape can do to desguise the lines of a car.
The impression that I have gotten all along is that the major changes were going to be to the interior, and features liek roll down center windows, and split folding seat. And while the platform might be largely carried over, it is probably significantly reworked to improve ride/handling/noise etc.
Anyway, I know nothing more than the rest of you, but I do know that you need to wait for the official info to be released to really know whats different, and to see and drive it to know how effective the changes are.
I kind of agree with your observation. I am also waiting to decide if I want to get a Sienna or an Odyssey, but so far I am really disappointed with the styling, it looks unbalanced at the rear, rear bumper skirts-out too much. Anyway I will wait few more weeks to know exactly how it looks, if it looks as bad as is does in spy shots, it will be hard to ignore a Sienna, despite some new frills attached with Ody (like fold down middle row, I wonder why, someone said get a truck if you really need that).
For my sake, I hope the styling isn't a knock out, so some people don't jump on the Honda, as long as the interior is upgraded as I hope it will be. Anything to tilt the supply/demand equation in my favor, so be it. Go Toyota! Make more Siennas! Compitition is good.
I hope so:-) See, I can get $3K off MSRP before any haggling. I figure I can use the Ody's release and get at least another $1K off, so it's $4K off MSRP. But if I wait until the end of the year and get these dealers to pill up on inventory, I figure I can get $5K off.
There will always be opinions on styling, but if the Accord is any indication, I am looking forward to the improved interior and new safety features. Side curtain airbags will be nice, and isn't the new Odyssey supposed to be the first Honda with the improved structure for frontal collisions? It will be interesting to see what changes were made to improve the already good ratings of the previous van.
My brother is willing to wait for 2005 Odyssey with leather, sunroof and navigation (possible the Touring) while dealers are selling at dealer's invoice for 2004 model. He is so excited and want to know more about the new navigation system (voice activate). We think the operation will be easy than the Sienna's touch screen system.
Yeah, I think the NAV will be as awesome as the Accord's and Acura MDX's NAV. I don't think it will be the 8" NAV like the TSX or TL, but 7" is good enough to me. Now if Toyota would follow and change the Sienna's NAV to the Lexus LS Bluetooth 7" Voice-Activated NAV, I would go for that.
But, yeah, I think the Ody's NAV will be great. So Ody will have "Acura" NAV and Sienna will have "Toyota" NAV.
I give the Ody huge points for NAV and Grille, but I will have to see the final product to judge the rest. Well, I better wait to judge anything period.
Plus, how do we know the '05 Sienna won't have upgrades?
be rest assured the sienna won't be getting the voice activated navigation in this model life. If you check the toyota and lexus models, only the ls430 gets the voice navigation. It would be quite a while before toyota hands it down to sienna.
This recall actually increases my confidence in Honda. My '98 BMW E39 540iA has an infamous radiator breakage problem at around 50K to 70K miles. About 25% owners or more experience this problem (based on website survey). When it happens, you lose all coolant in seconds. White vapor blocks your view of the road. Extremely dangerous at highway speed. I experienced it first-hand. And, BMW still refuse to recall or offer any subsided repair. Compared with BMW, there has been ONLY 1 reported problem with transmission. What a world of difference between auto makers!
I have had about 10 non-maintenance related problems with my BMW over 6+ years of ownership. In contrast, my '01 Odyssey EX-NAVI has been problem-free so far.
Comments
For now, without seeing the finished product, I think the front and rear of the new Ody are a mismatch.
For some reasons, I think the front end reminds me of the Acura RL and the rear end reminds me of the Nissan Quest.
I think Honda/Acura needs a seperate designer for the front and rear end. I like the front end of the RL and Accord, but I do not like the rear end very much. Same here with the Ody; front end is beautiful, but back end looks very weird. If the front end looks like the RL in terms of chrome grille, it will be a masterpiece on the front end.
I would have liked the rear end of the old Ody and the new front end put together. But, no. That would make my decisions way too easy.
Now for me it's like, beautiful Front end + awesome NAV and instrument panel of the Ody or woodtrim, gated shifter, better side and rear view of the Sienna? If Toyota would give the Sienna the front end looks of the LS 430 and the NAV+ instrument panel of the LS 430, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Well, not that fast, but close:-)
It looks promising. I hope Honda doesn't make us buy cross-bars to go with the roof-rack like they did with the old Ody.
So I like it overall, just like most people so far.
On the interior, Nissan needs to improve on material quality. I don't like the instrument layout being in the middle and think the Odyssey instrument layout will be better.
It would be something else if the new Ody offered a Mazda-sized moonroof. I am assuming the Honda moonroof will be comparable in size to the current moonroof in the MDX. There seems to be speculation that the moonroof will only be offered in the Touring model.
Will there be a Touring model that offers a moonroof and DVD, but no navigation / rear camera? Will Honda offer rear park assist as a cheaper alternative to a rear camera?
Here's the link also:
http://thehollywoodextra.com/honda/2005%20Honda.jpg
This is the article with the pic:
http://thehollywoodextra.com/honda/honda.html#Odyssey
some people are saying that the new ody is the japanese Honda Elision, but then other people are saying it's totally different, like a Mazda MPV SO.....
which is the real design (I hope it's the latter one)
The only good part of that news is that we don't have to be afraid that much of first year bugs - with the exception for the new VCM engine.
I also don't like the rear end at all - it looks very similar to the current Ody - which I don't like either. I like the rear-end of domestic models better, but the Siennas rear end (and rear end only) looks pretty nice, too.
See that high mounted stop lamp on top of the rear window? Still the old Ody type. Sienna has now nice LED lamps which is much more modern, nice and effective. Even Ford did it with the new Freestar, and added those LED lamps which are beautiful.
Honda also moved the liftgate handle and hide it, probably like the Sienna and Chrysler minivans. I do like more the liftgate handle of the Freestar - it's the most comfortable in my opinion. I don't like those electronic openers...
- type in "2005 Honda Odyssey spy photo"
- go to the first link.
Edmunds.com does not allow posting links to other automotive sites. They will be removed by host.
Is this update worth MSRP at launch?
$2,000 over MSRP?
More than $2,000 over MSRP?
or will the 2005 Ody be discounted from MSRP on the 1st day it gets launched?
Like the man said, what Honda dealers can do depends on how aggressive Toyota is, and whether Honda artificially holds back the supply. Best bet for buyers is they both produce as many vans as possible and fight for dominance.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Last time, Odyssey beat up Sienna badly by
- larger engine 3.5L vs 3.0L
- folding 3rd row seats
- larger interior room
- independent suspension, all disk brakes, 5-speed auto
- overall value for less (MSRP to MSRP)
This time, the difference is narrowing. I don't think Toyota enjoy being beat up twice in a row. Unless Honda has something in their sleeves that we are not aware of this time.
How about?
- disappearing 2rd seats (rumored)
- skylight (those in Quest) - what not copy from Nissan?!
- roll-down 3rd windows (seem unlikely from spy photos)
- anything else?
250 hp vs 230
power folding 3rd row seat (rumored)
VCM
lager interior
better handling
DVD screen 9"
Drive-By-Wire
Adjustable pedals
The only difference I see is that the '05 looks much better at the front and the '04 looks much better at the back end.
As far as prices go, if I can get $5K off MSRP on a Sienna Limited w/NAV+RES and only $1K off MSRP on the Ody Touring w/NAV+RES, I would get the Sienna anyday especially now that I THINK Honda has screwed up the back end of the Ody.
But I will definitely use the '05 Ody as leverage on the negotiation.
To me the Sienna looks so much more aerodynamic and smooth while the Ody looks very bulky, boxy, and heavy. I still like the front end, but that's about it. From what I can see, I think the interior looks alright, but nothing special--nothing that I would pay MSRP or even $2K under MSRP for.
$5K off XLE Limited Navi+RES Sienna? Is it really going to happen?
I just priced it at $1600 off MSRP from carsdirect.com. I would be tempted also. $5K off is below invoice by $1k.
and you think the Sienna is more aerodynamic looking. really?
you won't need to leverage it to buy the Sienna. deep down, you prefer the ODY.
if not, why are you waiting? be honest with yourself. to get a better deal on the Sienna?
anyway, you know you *really* like the big NAV display in the ODY pic you've seen...you'll be buying the ODY - maybe just for that alone. you know you will. maybe they'll toss in some wood trim too for good measure.
back to the NAV - this is a major item for you.
and as for tossing stuff in - don't you think it will have other ingredients the Sienna has, but probably standard?
hope you realize i'm just having some fun. it will be interesting to see the real vehicle configuration won't it?
regards.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
For those of you who don't know, AN is the dealer bible publication.
Interestingly, the caption below the photo mentions a new little factoid- "Honda engineers added interior space by making the minivan WIDER."
Have fun with that info guys....
Kongo writes:
I spied the same '05 Odyssey test mule on the road near Honda's NA HQ here in Torrance.
It has "Ohio Mfg" plates, and inside were two guys in matching Honda polo shirts. I rolled up next to them at red light (I was driving my '03 Odyssey) and motioned for the passenger to roll down the window. He did so and I asked, "Is that the '05 Odyssey?" He quickly rolled up the window and looked straight ahead!
- The 2nd row window has two parts. The front part can be rolled down. The second part is also glass (hidden frame under) but fixed like today's version. Basically, it has hidden frame unlike the Sienna's. The Odyssey's design makes it look slick like current version while still have roll-down windows.
- 3rd window could be even more interesting. I guess it also has two parts. Front part is fixed glass like what we have today. The second part could be a power-flipped out triangle window/ or a roll-down triangle window. Otherwise, why would Honda mask out that part specifically and completely. There must be something new to it that Honda don't want competitors (and us) to see.
Any comments? Just my observations plus wild guesses.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
After the month-long waiting, yesterday I saw the leaked photos. I am disappointed! I am disappointed at the Odyssey, Honda and some posts here.
The new Odyssey’s front is plain, the rear is ugly, and the side is weird. The interior? Not sure, they tried to keep as top nuclear secret. But I won’t be surprised there’s nothing interesting there. Overall, this is 04 design carried over to 05 and being called “All New”.
Disappointing!
Though there is one or two thoughtful doubts mixed here there in the posts, they are quickly shot down by blind enthusiasm. That explains why despite the waves of calling Honda to bring the Japanese styled design to America, they simply don’t bother. Why spend money on a new design when a reskined old car sure is welcomed unquestionably?
Long ago, I heard the story Honda only sells top-class car in domestic market. America/ Europe got second-class, and the rest got garbage. I had my doubt. The doubt is reality to me.
Keep the good comments on. See what kinda Honda garbage will bring us next.
As to the spy pics, I believe all the vans shot have had some camo on. You would be surprised what a few pieces of tape can do to desguise the lines of a car.
The impression that I have gotten all along is that the major changes were going to be to the interior, and features liek roll down center windows, and split folding seat. And while the platform might be largely carried over, it is probably significantly reworked to improve ride/handling/noise etc.
Anyway, I know nothing more than the rest of you, but I do know that you need to wait for the official info to be released to really know whats different, and to see and drive it to know how effective the changes are.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
See, I can get $3K off MSRP before any haggling.
I figure I can use the Ody's release and get at least another $1K off, so it's $4K off MSRP.
But if I wait until the end of the year and get these dealers to pill up on inventory, I figure I can get $5K off.
I sense the humor:-)
Nav is the big thing to me.
Front grille is too.
I don't think it will be the 8" NAV like the TSX or TL, but 7" is good enough to me.
Now if Toyota would follow and change the Sienna's NAV to the Lexus LS Bluetooth 7" Voice-Activated NAV, I would go for that.
But, yeah, I think the Ody's NAV will be great.
So Ody will have "Acura" NAV and Sienna will have "Toyota" NAV.
I give the Ody huge points for NAV and Grille, but I will have to see the final product to judge the rest.
Well, I better wait to judge anything period.
Plus, how do we know the '05 Sienna won't have upgrades?
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0406/30/autos-199589.htm
I have had about 10 non-maintenance related problems with my BMW over 6+ years of ownership. In contrast, my '01 Odyssey EX-NAVI has been problem-free so far.