My CRD is an 11 May '05 build. Past week, along with replacing a bad rear pinion seal, had TSB 18-009-06 performed on it. Picked it up yesterday, and did the normal commute to work.
Tranny shifts seem a good bit smoother, you hear them thru the change in engine rpm rather than feel them in the seat of your pants now. A side note, they've discovered that the tranny dipstick can be tricky to read unless you closely follow the instructions, mine turned out to be 2 quarts low even after being checked at normal service 4 weeks ago.
Engine is noticeably quieter, especially at cold startup idle. Acceleration from a stop is quicker with the same amount of throttle. Throtle seems more responsive and engine spools up to power quicker.
Drove it 70 miles yesterday, and so far no noticeable effect on fuel economy, at least I didn't notice any decrease.
They should have given you what the code was saying. I try to make it a point to work with my selling dealer. However, if I see they are not reliable or covering up ignorance, I am gone. Once you take a stand against the dealer you can't take it back, so check it out with another dealer and if they say you have been dumped in bull dung, take a load of it back to the dealer. ONE dealer insisted the CRD was made in GERMANY by MB. I let DCX know how much misinformation the dealers are spreading. Besides every one knows these CRD are made on Poland! Right?
Carobou1: Say France looks just like Missouri! Did they have a CRD in Europe in the Liberty (US terminology) before 2003? I know one thing or sure, you did not have the original GoodYear Wrangler ST tires on, those tires would never be able to pull this without blowing out! Cool pictures!
Farout, I have talked with two diffrent sales people at the local jeep dealer and two diffrent pieces of information about the engine. One told me the engine is the same engine Volkswagen uses; the other told me it was a Mercedes Benz. I called the dealer to complain about his web site and gave him heck about the poor and incorrect info the sales staff was giving. May have fallen on deaf ears, I don't know, but if Im told BS again I'll write Chrysler and complain.
Hi farout, I think the 2.5L CRD came out in 2001. I met a few people who had Jeeps with this engine, and they never said it was more powerful than others. I strongly believe the automatic transmission makes the difference. I have BFG A/T 225*75*16 on now. They lost their agressivity on ice+snow due to wear (their 2nd winter season) but in soggy soil they dive about 5 inches and pull like in a cog-way. I just prayed my Spanset could support the effort and it did. When the work was finished we all laughed because the trees were enormous compared to the Jeep. I'd be curious to see how this type of work could be done with a 3.7L gasser This was really very easy for the CRD :shades:
Just for the heck of it. Goes to show how far diesels have come when a diesel race engine beats the pants off of the gasoline engines. http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/alms/22629/
Very strange...do you have a leak? Did the factory underfill it? That's a scarey thing to find out. two quarts would make a big spot on the driveway. What happened? Best of luck with it...LK :confuse:
The Mobil-1 Truck$SUV that I got at Wally World is 5W40, right next to the 5w30!! If they don't have it at your Wally World, ask them to get it, they have been real good about ordering in items for us here in South Carolina.
Farout I haven't had any service done other than an oil change. The tranny shudder usually occurs after a down shift acceleration and then shifts back to 5th. It's tough to tell if it's really the tranny or the engine.
I had been getting 23-26 mpg on the highway doing 75-80 and only recently had two consecutive in-town tanks that produced 20.5 and 21 mpg. The in-town didn't surprise me as each tank consisted of very short trips to the kids school and back. This recent trip to Colorado resulted in lower mileage than I expected. I did have four people and our ski gear plus the ski rack on top. Best mileage for the trip was 25 mpg, worst was 21.5 (this included about 175 miles of in-town driving.
I've used Powerservce but have seen no improvement in mileage but rather a decrease if anything.
I'm setting up a service this week. I'll post back with results.
Has anyone had any dealings with Carmax? I was looking at the Jeep Liberty diesels and there seems to be some good deals. Ahhh, the red flag, if it’s too good to be true, it probably is. For example, a listed as new 05 Liberty Limited CRD pkg 22F 2.8L sunroof.
MSRP $28320 Invoice $26805 Sale Price $20556 Difference $7764
Willing to take over $7700 off the top makes me wonder what might be wrong with this car. I like the price, but keep looking for the strings that might be attached.
Undisclosed factory rebate of $4,500 on all 05 CRDs. That explains the $4,500 the rest is all up to individual dealers and what they want or need to do to move a unit. Good luck.
Thanks jimhemi, That explanes a lot. I'll just keep looking for now. The boss has kind of told me to back off the car buying idea until next year. The 93 Explorer just keeps running, however it is making noises it never made before our trip to California and back.
I've had my CRD for 1500 miles and have noticed on the few occasions when I put the pedal to the floor to quickly accelerate a large cloud of exhaust trailed behind. Has any one else had this happen? :confuse:
Hi Farout.. Oh I see why. Isn't there a decent mechanic at a corner gas station/service center ,nearby that could do the job ? Just trying to save you some $$'s .
I would go to the dealer and buy the extended warranty,off of them instead of CaMax.pick a dealer that is close by for convenience. This way you have access to the service Tech's that are trained on her,if there is a serious problem.
Thats sounds like an awesome deal to me. Speak Soon. Lightin3..
My son bought a Honda S-2000 with an extended warranty from Carmax and the Honda dealer honors it. It's like an insurance policy! "Car Health Insurance" Lol
It's tough to tell if it's really the tranny or the engine I experienced something similar before I removed the egr out of the way. When from idle speed (in neutral of course) I accelerated briefly several times, the engine studdered and finally stopped. Something choked it. This should have never occured on a diesel. The diagnostic was simple and has proven to be reliable for several weeks. Later this spring I will repair the egr valve because it worked well when it was new. Another detail concerns the specific metallic sound of the engine when the mixture is lean. The egr valve is normally open when there is no load on the warm engine, and the sound changes. What I called the "happy woodpecker sound" in a previous post I only had since the valve was disconnected. When the egr works well, we are never in a condition of lean mixture because the valve reduces the oxygen going into the engine. Call in a musician, she/he will tell the difference
CarMax offers the Daimler-Chrysler extended warranty honored at Daimler dealers. CarMax is an independently owned Daimler-Chrysler dealer just like any other DC dealership. Jeep and Chrysler are sold in Orlando, Los Angeles and Atlanta, Dodge in Orlando and LA. CarMax also sells new Nissan, Toyota, Scion, and Chevrolet in a few areas around the US.
CarMax is an excellent online price reference when buying a brand that they sell new. I've saved significant $ over the years by using the CarMax pricing to negotiate with local dealers.
This is partially the "Italian Tune-up". When you are accelerating and building up turbine speeds, you are also blowing all of that carbon buildup in the turbo out. This buidlup is what you are seeing out of the exhaust. If you do this a number of times in a short span, then you will notice that the smoke will become less and less. The T :shades:
We do not have Wally World in Florida and is very difficult to get 5W-40. the only 5W-40 I've seen is Castrol and I do not like Castrol oil. That was in Miami. I am in Orlando. :mad:
jkinzel you are not going to find a better deal any were else carmax is very honest and libby is new. The 05 have a better warranty than the 06 buy it you will not be sorry.
Just to add fuel to the fire about oil changes and where you get them. A friend of mine (and no it's not me because I'm the furthest thing from a mechanic) worked for a tire and service center. It is a well known tire center in the NJ area. I had the privlidge of hanging in the shop on many occasions while they performed oil changes, tire rotations, etc. As someone mentioned, this junior mechanic as he was just out of ASE school hated to do the oil change because they made no money on them. They would burn their hands, get dirty and get little reward for a quick change. On many occasions, the customers who were complainers or thought they knew something about cars were rewarded with metal shavings from the brake lathe in their freshly changed oil. Just some thought for the next time you give your keys to someone at one of these establishments. This is why I have always changed my own oil no matter how good a certain "special" may be.
I looked up the orlando dealer on JEEP's website and the CARMAX was the first one on the list. I looked up the dealers inventory so I could see the actual sticker. They are a 5star dealer. The dealer I bought from will never see me again, but they had the vehicle I wanted on the lot. I thought this was a good deal when I originally posted the CARMAX question. If you buy it then see if it has an 100k diesel warranty. Just curious. Good luck
Wally World is just a nickname for Wal-Mart and there are four of them in Orlando. There's probably one right across the street from Mickey Dees and Jacques Penne (where the old Monkey Wards used to be :shades: ).
I want to thank everyone for the information on CarMax, it’s been a great help. Unfortunately, my Liberty purchase is many months away unless the 93 Explorer craters. I think buy in Orlando or Atlanta, one way ticket east and a road trip home. :shades: Might be fun as I have never been to the right side, or is it the Other side. :P
I have bought more cars out of state than local. It is always fun to take a trip with a new car or truck. Good chance to get acquainted and break the engine in. I have never gotten stranded with early failures. Go where you get the best price. Your local dealer will have to do any warranty work and they get paid for it.
tired_old_dave: Just an update. My air filter box is being replaced under warranty for the passenger side cracked cover slot. My truthful argument was that I have never touched it and wanted it fixed before I had to check the air filter at 12,500 miles per the service schedule. They agreed and it's on order and indicated as a no-charge warranty item on my invoice.
Here is my MPG summary with 12,850 miles so far. My overall MPG is 24 MPG. I have been very pleased with the CRD's mileage so far. The MPG-TC column is the Trip Computer mileage.
The sensors in the throttle body evidently cannot tolerate ANY liquid contamination. And because there IS liquid contamination, DC is refusing to warranty that item. The liquid in question appears to be coming from the CCV, no doubt oil, but it also smells like biodiesel, no surprise there. What is a surprise is that the stuff has spread clear from the turbo through the intercooler and into the throttle body, which is where it has caused my problem
We're having to foot the bill at this point for flushing out the intake system (not covered under warranty) and for the throttle body (a $650 part!!!). Double ouch
This I copied from another forum...It really scares me.
My overall mileage is currently 24.48 mpg after 17,250 miles including a 1.02 correction factor for odometer error (GPS and highway markers). Too similar to be a fluke Patentguy.
I read over 20 different diesel blogs and technical papers while searching for the words “black smoke” and reading just those sections. It turns out there is one common thread:
Excess Fuel=Not Enough Air=Black Smoke.
When you punch the “throttle” on the CRD, the injectors dump fuel creating an over-rich mixture creating lots of black smoke. The turbo spools up quickly providing plenty of air and the black smoke goes away.
Some vehicles do this less than others. The Jetta TDI dumps fuel with a 0.25 second cutback by the computer. The fuel is already cutting back in anticipation of the sudden turbo boost emitting a small puff of black smoke.
I get the impression that the CRD engine gives us all it can. When you punch the CRD you get an almost immediate 23 pounds of boost from the turbo at 1800 rpm – after fuel is dumped and a slight lag, of course.
If someone wants to make the argument accumulated oil is blown out of the intercooler hoses into the intake contributing to the black smoke that could be true. I found nothing on that.
This pretty much mirrors what I've gotten up to the 5500 miles so far. I wasn't too please with the last tank as I got 21 on the highway which is unusual but I had skis on top, four people in the jeep and all our ski gear plus it was very windy. Because of this mileage and the driveline shudder I took my Libby into a dealer today. We'll see if anything improves! Gary
Whitgallman, I have the MSDS for Power Service Fuel Lube and Cetane Boost. Are any of the chemicals harmful to our engines? Someone in here mentioned that some of these boosters may contain acetone. Another user noted the smell of Nitromethane which I happen to be quite fond of ( I know I'm sick) Sorry for taking up such a huge space with this but here goes. Let me know if you prefer an email. Thanks
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET Required under USDL Safety and Health Regulations
SECTION I - CHEMICAL COMPANY AND PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
POWER SERVICE PRODUCTS P.O. BOX 1089 WEATHERFORD, TEXAS 76086 817/599-9486 e-mail: psp@powerservice.com
Product Name: DIESEL FUEL SUPPLEMENT ADVANCED FORMULA +CETANE BOOST 1:1500 Synonyms: DIESEL FUEL ADDITIVE Generic/Chemical Name: HYDROCARBONS, HYDROXY AND ORGANIC NITROGEN COMPOUNDS MSDS Preparation Date: October 10, 2005 - supersedes March 21, 2005 Emergency Phone Number: 800/424-9300
SECTION II - COMPOSITION/INFORMATION OF INGREDIENTS
This product is a proprietary complex mixture of petroleum Hydrocarbons, Hydroxy Compounds and Organic Nitrogen Compounds. Specific chemical information is being withheld as a Trade Secret. Specific chemical information will be made available to health professionals in accordance with 29 CFR 1910.1200.
SECTION III - HAZARD IDENTIFICATION
EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES: If overcome by vapors, remove from exposure immediately; call a physician. If breathing is irregular or stopped, start resuscitation, administer oxygen. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting; call a physician. Remove contaminated clothing and wash skin with soap and water. Flush eyes with water until irritation subsides.
PRIMARY ROUTE (S) OF ENTRY: INGESTION AND INHALATION
VARIABILITY AMONG INDIVIDUALS: Health Studies have shown that many petroleum hydrocarbons and synthetic lubricants pose potential human health risks which may vary from person to person. As a precaution, exposure to liquids, vapors, mists and fumes should be minimized.
NATURE OF HAZARD AND TOXICITY INFORMATION: Prolonged or repeated skin contact with this product tends to remove skin oils possibly leading to irritation and dermatitis: however, based on human experiences and available toxicological data, this product is judged to be neither a “corrosive” nor an “irritant”.
PAGE 2: DIESEL FUEL SUPPLEMENT ADVANCED FORMULA +CETANE BOOST
Potential risk to humans can be minimized by observing good work practices and personal hygiene procedures generally recommended for petroleum products. The product has a low order of acute toxicity, but minute amounts aspirated into the lungs during ingestion may cause severe pulmonary injury or death.
SECTION IV - FIRST AID MEASURES
EYE CONTACT: Flush eyes with large amounts of water until irritation subsides. If irritation persists, get medical attention. SKIN CONTACT: Flush with large amounts of water, use soap if available. Remove grossly contaminated clothing, including shoes and launder before re-use. INHALATION: Using proper respiration protection, immediately remove the affected victim from exposure. Administer artificial respiration if breathing is stopped. Keep at rest. Call for prompt medical attention. INGESTION: If swallowed do not induce vomiting. Keep at rest. Get prompt medical attention.
SECTION V - FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA
FLASH POINT .105°F (TCC) FLAMMABLE LIMITS: lower 1 upper ..7 EXTINGUISHING MEDIA: Alcohol resistant foam, dry chemical, CO2, waterspray or fog. SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES: Use air-supplied rescue equipment for enclosed areas. Cool exposed containers with water. UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS: Do not store or mix with strong oxidants or combustible liquids.
EMPTY CONTAINERS CONTAIN COMBUSTIBLE VAPORS: “DO NOT USE CUTTING TORCH EQUIPMENT OR ANY OTHER FLAME ON ANY EMPTY CONTAINER”.
SECTION VI - ACCIDENTAL RELEASE PROCEDURES
STEPS TO BE TAKEN IN CASE MATERIAL IS RELEASED OR SPILLED: Remove all ignition sources. Keep people away. Recover free liquid. Add absorbent to spill area. Avoid breathing vapors. Ventilate enclosed spaces. Open all windows and doors. Keep petroleum products out of public sewers, streams and waterways.
WASTE DISPOSAL METHOD: Typical disposal is by supervised incineration in a furnace or in a chemical disposal area in compliance with Federal, State and Local Law.
SECTION VII - HANDLING AND STORAGE
PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN IN HANDLING AND STORING: Keep containers closed. Keep away from heat, sparks and open flames.
PAGE 3: DIESEL FUEL SUPPLEMENT ADVANCED FORMULA +CETANE BOOST
CONTAINERS ARE STRICTLY “SINGLE TRIP CONTAINERS.” THEY ARE NOT TO BE USED FOR ANY REASON AFTER BEING EMPTIED.
OTHER PRECAUTIONS: Avoid breathing vapors. Avoid prolonged or repeated contact with skin. Remove contaminated clothing; wash before re-use. Wash skin with soap and water after contact.
SECTION VIII - EXPOSURE CONTROLS AND PERSONAL PROTECTION
OSHA ACGIH TWA STEL TWA PPM MgM3 PPM MgM3 PPM MgM3 400 1600 500 2000 450 1600 Carcinogen - NTP Program ..N/A Carcinogen - IARC Program .N/A
EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE: Avoid breathing vapor. Inhalation of high vapor concentrations may have results ranging from dizziness and headaches to unconsciousness. Prolonged or repeated liquid contact will dry and defat the skin leading to irritation and dermatitis.
RESPIRATORY PROTECTION (Specify type): Organic vapor respirator (Hydrocarbon) or supplied-air hose if needed.
VENTILATION: LOCAL EXHAUST Face velocity > 60 fpm MECHANICAL (General) ..Explosion - proof ventilation equipment. SPECIAL .Use only with adequate ventilation. OTHER No smoking or open flames.
PROTECTIVE GLOVES: Normally not needed. Use chemical resistant PVC coated gloves if necessary.
EYE PROTECTION: Normally not needed, however chemical goggles, face shield or safety glasses are recommended.
OTHER PROTECTION EQUIPMENT: Organic (Hydrocarbon) insoluble apron if needed.
SECTION IX - PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
BOILING POINT .. 300°F VAPOR PRESSURE (mmHG) 5 @ 70°F VAPOR DENSITY (AIR =1) .. >1 SOLUBILITY IN WATER . partial SPECIFIC GRAVITY (H2O =1) .92 PERCENT, VOLAT
I purchased a 2005 Jeep Liberty Diesel in Michigan. My overall experience has been nothing but TROUBLE! And, these troubles have been compounded by a rather apethetic dealer and DCX customer support team. I have had an ongoing RATTLE with the exhaust they cannot fix. I have had 2 airleaks, replaced EGR, two power losses (unexplained to me by dealership as typical NPFs), muffler replaced, exhaust removed and re-installed, RATTLES Again in Exhaust, and continual POOR Alignment.
I have sacrificed 7 work days 12 days out of service Received rude comments from both DCX and Dealership
AND I STILL HAVE MY PROBLEMS WITH ZERO, ZILCH, NADA RESOLVE. I AM GOING TO EITHER BUYOUT THE LEASE OR POST ON LEASESWAP. THEN I AM GOING RIGHT TO THE TOYOTA DEALERSHIP AND BUYING A CAR FROM SOMEONE WHO CARES. MY OWNERSHIP EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT A DISASTER!!!! :mad: :lemon:
I purchased a 2006 liberty crd and plan on doing a oil change. Where exactly is the oil pan??Is it right next to the oil filter??Also what size washer is on the 8mm hex. Which is better-copper,plastic or metal for that washer.
rockymtncrd, I'm experiencing similar problems with my new '06. Took delivery of it last month and on the drive home from the dealer, the stuttering started with only 150 miles on it. It's been doing it ever since between 17-2100 rpm's with OD off which is 40-50 mph. And now also about 55 mph with OD on (around 17-1800 rpm's). We live at 9000', and commute to town at 5350'. Only happens when we're holding speed or slightly accelerating, hot or cold. We've tried: checked that all hoses were tight, different fuels, cetane booster. We always warm up for at least a good five minutes before moving, and usually have the engine block heater plugged in for the night. Nothing has helped. So finally took it to the service dept. last week. They said there was a TSB fix for it. After they programmed for it they said it works fine, but once I left for home and hit 50mph it started again. [TSB# = 18-038-05]. It's now back at the dealer waiting for a torque converter, that STAR says will fix it. We'll see. :confuse: A shame I can't drive in the sweet spot for best MPG without the stutter/shudder/hesitation/jerking! Michelle in NM
Sales of the Jeep Liberty CRD diesel are about to surpass the 10,000 mark, double the number expected when Chrysler Group launched the Jeep Liberty CRD diesel in early 2005.
Sorry about not getting back to everyone. Computers and I don't spend much time together.
Drove to the big city a few weeks ago and spontaneously launched off the highway at 65. Haven't left the road in 29 years. After 70 miles of dry roads in 2wd I noticed myself steering into a skid and thought, "That's funny... I'm dreaming about driving; I should wake up soon.". Then it hooked up and launched me off the road sideways at 65. The snow was perfect. I didn't wake up cause I wasn't sleeping. Watched the merge sign travel across the windshield from right to left and forgot to signal. Travelled up a steepish embankment to the entrance ramp; still sideways and launched completely over the entrance ramp road (steering wheel does nothing when airborn) and landed sideways in the ditch on the other side stopping 3 feet from a huge concrete retaining wall; still sideways. Put it in 4wd and got out to see if I'd hit the wall. Looked across the ramp for skid marks and saw two plumes of snow across the road where my wheels (plows) had thrown it. Looked pretty stuck... up to the hubs on the left and above the tires on the right. Stomped the snow behind it and backed up a bit; stomped the snow in front a bit and drove right out. Didn't want to stay long because I figured someone else was going to want my parking spot. Not a scrach on the jeep or me.
The cause was a shadowed area under a diagonal overpass on an uphill right-hand curve that had kept its' ice. Torque, hill, and diagonal ice combined to aim me and the trac-loc worked well to launch me. Just luck it didn't flip or hit someone on the ramp. It's a known trap that got written up in the paper years ago. That's twice I've gotten out of this thing thinking it's wrecked. Odd feeling... usually they are wrecked and that's a very rare event in my life.
All a powerfull argument for traction control and slamming on the abs whenever in the slightest dreamlike state. I still like my trac-loc. For grunt work it's a better machine. It would be nice to have traction control and limited slip but I can see the engineering conflicts there.
I can't blame the car, road, or anyone else. Cheap lesson for me. I have to say this happened sober and sane before I watched any of the Olympics or read about the right hand rule. Gotta go... I've posted too long.
Welcome to the club. Mine has been already 50 days out of service due to numerous engine problems and I made only 1500 miles! Still waiting for DCX to decide whether my car is a lemon or not. My experience with DCX customer service has been awful. :lemon:
Here is a different cetane booster: http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/es/etb/cetc/pdfs/supercetane_e.pdf Even though higher cetane gives smoother combustion, I found that LSD and ULSD never gave me good mileage compared to 350 ppm sulfur diesel fuel.
Sorry you are having problems. But, you are just one person and I don't think 1 person justifies slamming the whole product line. I and countless others home and abroad are quite happy with them.
Sorry that you are having such trouble. My experience is completely different. I have an '05 Sport with just under 21k miles in 51 weeks. Other than the famous EGR/Reflash it has needed no service beyond maintainence. If you don't like the car, get rid of it. Just don't whine about it for months like some here
Comments
Tranny shifts seem a good bit smoother, you hear them thru the change in engine rpm rather than feel them in the seat of your pants now. A side note, they've discovered that the tranny dipstick can be tricky to read unless you closely follow the instructions, mine turned out to be 2 quarts low even after being checked at normal service 4 weeks ago.
Engine is noticeably quieter, especially at cold startup idle. Acceleration from a stop is quicker with the same amount of throttle. Throtle seems more responsive and engine spools up to power quicker.
Drove it 70 miles yesterday, and so far no noticeable effect on fuel economy, at least I didn't notice any decrease.
Farout
Cool pictures!
I have talked with two diffrent sales people at the local jeep dealer and two diffrent pieces of information about the engine. One told me the engine is the same engine Volkswagen uses; the other told me it was a Mercedes Benz. I called the dealer to complain about his web site and gave him heck about the poor and incorrect info the sales staff was giving.
May have fallen on deaf ears, I don't know, but if Im told BS again I'll write Chrysler and complain.
I think the 2.5L CRD came out in 2001. I met a few people who had Jeeps with this engine, and they never said it was more powerful than others. I strongly believe the automatic transmission makes the difference.
I have BFG A/T 225*75*16 on now. They lost their agressivity on ice+snow due to wear (their 2nd winter season) but in soggy soil they dive about 5 inches and pull like in a cog-way. I just prayed my Spanset could support the effort and it did. When the work was finished we all laughed because the trees were enormous compared to the Jeep. I'd be curious to see how this type of work could be done with a 3.7L gasser
http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/alms/22629/
Best of luck with it...LK :confuse:
I haven't had any service done other than an oil change. The tranny shudder usually occurs after a down shift acceleration and then shifts back to 5th. It's tough to tell if it's really the tranny or the engine.
I had been getting 23-26 mpg on the highway doing 75-80 and only recently had two consecutive in-town tanks that produced 20.5 and 21 mpg. The in-town didn't surprise me as each tank consisted of very short trips to the kids school and back. This recent trip to Colorado resulted in lower mileage than I expected. I did have four people and our ski gear plus the ski rack on top. Best mileage for the trip was 25 mpg, worst was 21.5 (this included about 175 miles of in-town driving.
I've used Powerservce but have seen no improvement in mileage but rather a decrease if anything.
I'm setting up a service this week. I'll post back with results.
Gary
MSRP $28320
Invoice $26805
Sale Price $20556
Difference $7764
Willing to take over $7700 off the top makes me wonder what might be wrong with this car. I like the price, but keep looking for the strings that might be attached.
CarMax is very aggressive on their pricing of new vehicles.
Have fun!! LK
Oh I see why.
Isn't there a decent mechanic at a corner gas station/service center ,nearby that could do the job ?
Just trying to save you some $$'s .
Speak Soon
Lightnin3
This way you have access to the service Tech's that are trained on her,if there is a serious problem.
Thats sounds like an awesome deal to me.
Speak Soon.
Lightin3..
LK :shades:
I experienced something similar before I removed the egr out of the way. When from idle speed (in neutral of course) I accelerated briefly several times, the engine studdered and finally stopped. Something choked it. This should have never occured on a diesel. The diagnostic was simple and has proven to be reliable for several weeks. Later this spring I will repair the egr valve because it worked well when it was new.
Another detail concerns the specific metallic sound of the engine when the mixture is lean. The egr valve is normally open when there is no load on the warm engine, and the sound changes. What I called the "happy woodpecker sound" in a previous post I only had since the valve was disconnected. When the egr works well, we are never in a condition of lean mixture because the valve reduces the oxygen going into the engine.
Call in a musician, she/he will tell the difference
CarMax also sells new Nissan, Toyota, Scion, and Chevrolet in a few areas around the US.
CarMax is an excellent online price reference when buying a brand that they sell new. I've saved significant $ over the years by using the CarMax pricing to negotiate with local dealers.
A friend of mine (and no it's not me because I'm the furthest thing from a mechanic) worked for a tire and service center. It is a well known tire center in the NJ area. I had the privlidge of hanging in the shop on many occasions while they performed oil changes, tire rotations, etc. As someone mentioned, this junior mechanic as he was just out of ASE school hated to do the oil change because they made no money on them. They would burn their hands, get dirty and get little reward for a quick change. On many occasions, the customers who were complainers or thought they knew something about cars were rewarded with metal shavings from the brake lathe in their freshly changed oil. Just some thought for the next time you give your keys to someone at one of these establishments. This is why I have always changed my own oil no matter how good a certain "special" may be.
Steve, Host
I think buy in Orlando or Atlanta, one way ticket east and a road trip home. :shades: Might be fun as I have never been to the right side, or is it the Other side. :P
Keep trying.
We're having to foot the bill at this point for flushing out the intake system (not covered under warranty) and for the throttle body (a $650 part!!!). Double ouch
This I copied from another forum...It really scares me.
NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY ????
:confuse: LK
I read over 20 different diesel blogs and technical papers while searching for the words “black smoke” and reading just those sections. It turns out there is one common thread:
Excess Fuel=Not Enough Air=Black Smoke.
When you punch the “throttle” on the CRD, the injectors dump fuel creating an over-rich mixture creating lots of black smoke. The turbo spools up quickly providing plenty of air and the black smoke goes away.
Some vehicles do this less than others. The Jetta TDI dumps fuel with a 0.25 second cutback by the computer. The fuel is already cutting back in anticipation of the sudden turbo boost emitting a small puff of black smoke.
I get the impression that the CRD engine gives us all it can. When you punch the CRD you get an almost immediate 23 pounds of boost from the turbo at 1800 rpm – after fuel is dumped and a slight lag, of course.
If someone wants to make the argument accumulated oil is blown out of the intercooler hoses into the intake contributing to the black smoke that could be true. I found nothing on that.
Gary
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Required under USDL Safety and Health Regulations
SECTION I - CHEMICAL COMPANY AND PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
POWER SERVICE PRODUCTS
P.O. BOX 1089
WEATHERFORD, TEXAS 76086
817/599-9486 e-mail: psp@powerservice.com
Product Name: DIESEL FUEL SUPPLEMENT ADVANCED FORMULA
+CETANE BOOST 1:1500
Synonyms: DIESEL FUEL ADDITIVE
Generic/Chemical Name: HYDROCARBONS, HYDROXY AND ORGANIC NITROGEN
COMPOUNDS
MSDS Preparation Date: October 10, 2005 - supersedes March 21, 2005
Emergency Phone Number: 800/424-9300
SECTION II - COMPOSITION/INFORMATION OF INGREDIENTS
INGREDIENT PERCENT
HYDROCARBONS 40 – 60
HYDROXY COMPOUNDS 10 - 20
ORGANIC NITROGEN COMPOUNDS 5 - 40
This product is a proprietary complex mixture of petroleum Hydrocarbons, Hydroxy Compounds and Organic Nitrogen Compounds. Specific chemical information is being withheld as a Trade Secret. Specific chemical information will be made available to health professionals in accordance with 29 CFR 1910.1200.
SECTION III - HAZARD IDENTIFICATION
EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES: If overcome by vapors, remove from exposure immediately; call a physician. If breathing is irregular or stopped, start resuscitation, administer oxygen. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting; call a physician. Remove contaminated clothing and wash skin with soap and water. Flush eyes with water until irritation subsides.
PRIMARY ROUTE (S) OF ENTRY: INGESTION AND INHALATION
VARIABILITY AMONG INDIVIDUALS: Health Studies have shown that many petroleum hydrocarbons and synthetic lubricants pose potential human health risks which may vary from person to person. As a precaution, exposure to liquids, vapors, mists and fumes should be minimized.
NATURE OF HAZARD AND TOXICITY INFORMATION: Prolonged or repeated skin contact with this product tends to remove skin oils possibly leading to irritation and dermatitis: however, based on human experiences and available toxicological data, this product is judged to be neither a “corrosive” nor an “irritant”.
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Potential risk to humans can be minimized by observing good work practices and personal hygiene procedures generally recommended for petroleum products. The product has a low order of acute toxicity, but minute amounts aspirated into the lungs during ingestion may cause severe pulmonary injury or death.
SECTION IV - FIRST AID MEASURES
EYE CONTACT: Flush eyes with large amounts of water until irritation subsides. If irritation persists, get medical attention.
SKIN CONTACT: Flush with large amounts of water, use soap if available. Remove grossly contaminated clothing, including shoes and launder before re-use.
INHALATION: Using proper respiration protection, immediately remove the affected victim from exposure. Administer artificial respiration if breathing is stopped. Keep at rest. Call for prompt medical attention.
INGESTION: If swallowed do not induce vomiting. Keep at rest. Get prompt medical attention.
SECTION V - FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA
FLASH POINT .105°F (TCC)
FLAMMABLE LIMITS: lower 1 upper ..7
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA: Alcohol resistant foam, dry chemical, CO2, waterspray or fog.
SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES: Use air-supplied rescue equipment for enclosed areas. Cool exposed containers with water.
UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS: Do not store or mix with strong oxidants or combustible liquids.
EMPTY CONTAINERS CONTAIN COMBUSTIBLE VAPORS: “DO NOT USE CUTTING TORCH EQUIPMENT OR ANY OTHER FLAME ON ANY EMPTY CONTAINER”.
SECTION VI - ACCIDENTAL RELEASE PROCEDURES
STEPS TO BE TAKEN IN CASE MATERIAL IS RELEASED OR SPILLED: Remove all ignition sources. Keep people away. Recover free liquid. Add absorbent to spill area. Avoid breathing vapors. Ventilate enclosed spaces. Open all windows and doors. Keep petroleum products out of public sewers, streams and waterways.
WASTE DISPOSAL METHOD: Typical disposal is by supervised incineration in a furnace or in a chemical disposal area in compliance with Federal, State and Local Law.
SECTION VII - HANDLING AND STORAGE
PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN IN HANDLING AND STORING: Keep containers closed. Keep away from heat, sparks and open flames.
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CONTAINERS ARE STRICTLY “SINGLE TRIP CONTAINERS.” THEY ARE NOT TO BE USED FOR ANY REASON AFTER BEING EMPTIED.
OTHER PRECAUTIONS: Avoid breathing vapors. Avoid prolonged or repeated contact with skin. Remove contaminated clothing; wash before re-use. Wash skin with soap and water after contact.
SECTION VIII - EXPOSURE CONTROLS AND PERSONAL PROTECTION
OSHA ACGIH
TWA STEL TWA
PPM MgM3 PPM MgM3 PPM MgM3
400 1600 500 2000 450 1600
Carcinogen - NTP Program ..N/A
Carcinogen - IARC Program .N/A
EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE: Avoid breathing vapor. Inhalation of high vapor concentrations may have results ranging from dizziness and headaches to unconsciousness. Prolonged or repeated liquid contact will dry and defat the skin leading to irritation and dermatitis.
RESPIRATORY PROTECTION (Specify type): Organic vapor respirator (Hydrocarbon) or supplied-air hose if needed.
VENTILATION:
LOCAL EXHAUST Face velocity > 60 fpm
MECHANICAL (General) ..Explosion - proof ventilation equipment.
SPECIAL .Use only with adequate ventilation.
OTHER No smoking or open flames.
PROTECTIVE GLOVES: Normally not needed. Use chemical resistant PVC coated gloves if necessary.
EYE PROTECTION: Normally not needed, however chemical goggles, face shield or safety glasses are recommended.
OTHER PROTECTION EQUIPMENT: Organic (Hydrocarbon) insoluble apron if needed.
SECTION IX - PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
BOILING POINT .. 300°F
VAPOR PRESSURE (mmHG) 5 @ 70°F
VAPOR DENSITY (AIR =1) .. >1
SOLUBILITY IN WATER . partial
SPECIFIC GRAVITY (H2O =1) .92
PERCENT, VOLAT
I purchased a 2005 Jeep Liberty Diesel in Michigan. My overall experience has been nothing but TROUBLE! And, these troubles have been compounded by a rather apethetic dealer and DCX customer support team. I have had an ongoing RATTLE with the exhaust they cannot fix. I have had 2 airleaks, replaced EGR, two power losses (unexplained to me by dealership as typical NPFs), muffler replaced, exhaust removed and re-installed, RATTLES Again in Exhaust, and continual POOR Alignment.
I have sacrificed 7 work days
12 days out of service
Received rude comments from both DCX and Dealership
AND I STILL HAVE MY PROBLEMS WITH ZERO, ZILCH, NADA RESOLVE. I AM GOING TO EITHER BUYOUT THE LEASE OR POST ON LEASESWAP. THEN I AM GOING RIGHT TO THE TOYOTA DEALERSHIP AND BUYING A CAR FROM SOMEONE WHO CARES. MY OWNERSHIP EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT A DISASTER!!!! :mad: :lemon:
I'm experiencing similar problems with my new '06. Took delivery of it last month and on the drive home from the dealer, the stuttering started with only 150 miles on it. It's been doing it ever since between 17-2100 rpm's with OD off which is 40-50 mph. And now also about 55 mph with OD on (around 17-1800 rpm's). We live at 9000', and commute to town at 5350'. Only happens when we're holding speed or slightly accelerating, hot or cold.
We've tried: checked that all hoses were tight, different fuels, cetane booster. We always warm up for at least a good five minutes before moving, and usually have the engine block heater plugged in for the night. Nothing has helped.
So finally took it to the service dept. last week. They said there was a TSB fix for it. After they programmed for it they said it works fine, but once I left for home and hit 50mph it started again. [TSB# = 18-038-05]. It's now back at the dealer waiting for a torque converter, that STAR says will fix it. We'll see. :confuse: A shame I can't drive in the sweet spot for best MPG without the stutter/shudder/hesitation/jerking!
Michelle in NM
Sales of the Jeep Liberty CRD diesel are about to surpass the 10,000 mark, double the number expected when Chrysler Group launched the Jeep Liberty CRD diesel in early 2005.
Sorry about not getting back to everyone. Computers and I don't spend much time together.
Drove to the big city a few weeks ago and spontaneously launched off the highway at 65. Haven't left the road in 29 years. After 70 miles of dry roads in 2wd I noticed myself steering into a skid and thought, "That's funny... I'm dreaming about driving; I should wake up soon.". Then it hooked up and launched me off the road sideways at 65. The snow was perfect. I didn't wake up cause I wasn't sleeping. Watched the merge sign travel across the windshield from right to left and forgot to signal. Travelled up a steepish embankment to the entrance ramp; still sideways and launched completely over the entrance ramp road (steering wheel does nothing when airborn) and landed sideways in the ditch on the other side stopping 3 feet from a huge concrete retaining wall; still sideways. Put it in 4wd and got out to see if I'd hit the wall. Looked across the ramp for skid marks and saw two plumes of snow across the road where my wheels (plows) had thrown it. Looked pretty stuck... up to the hubs on the left and above the tires on the right. Stomped the snow behind it and backed up a bit; stomped the snow in front a bit and drove right out. Didn't want to stay long because I figured someone else was going to want my parking spot. Not a scrach on the jeep or me.
The cause was a shadowed area under a diagonal overpass on an uphill right-hand curve that had kept its' ice. Torque, hill, and diagonal ice combined to aim me and the trac-loc worked well to launch me. Just luck it didn't flip or hit someone on the ramp. It's a known trap that got written up in the paper years ago. That's twice I've gotten out of this thing thinking it's wrecked. Odd feeling... usually they are wrecked and that's a very rare event in my life.
All a powerfull argument for traction control and slamming on the abs whenever in the slightest dreamlike state. I still like my trac-loc. For grunt work it's a better machine. It would be nice to have traction control and limited slip but I can see the engineering conflicts there.
I can't blame the car, road, or anyone else. Cheap lesson for me. I have to say this happened sober and sane before I watched any of the Olympics or read about the right hand rule. Gotta go... I've posted too long.
Turblediesel
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/es/etb/cetc/pdfs/supercetane_e.pdf
Even though higher cetane gives smoother combustion, I found that LSD and ULSD never gave me good mileage compared to 350 ppm sulfur diesel fuel.