Guys wise up. I personally don't want a vehicle that I have to make a list of pro's and con's to convince myself I like it and am doing the right thing. Farout - your name is accurate. You are truley farout (in left field) if you think the dealer told me what I wanted to hear - what a joke! Since NONE of you are trying to trade this vehicle today, you are only speculating as to its value. It can be worth a million bucks to you if you keep it, only because you are not selling it. But when you ask someone to give you money for it - you will see its true value on the market. It is the purchaser that ultimately determines the value of anything - simple economics. I squeezed every red cent out of the dealer in making my deal with him. This was a no money deal as they call it. Even at that, $15,500 was all I could get for a $26,000 vehicle. As Ripley's says "believe it or not". No one wishes it wasn't so more than me - I'm the guy who just stroked a big check. Fortunately I never finance anything so at least I don't have that issue to make it worse. What I don't understand is why some people on this board take it personally that these vehicle are sub-standard? You act as if you have personal ownership in DCX or you made the vehicle yourself. The only thing I can figure is pride. No one likes to admit the've been had. I sure was - but I promise you this DCX will never get another penny out of me. I think I funded the entire corporations retirement plan on this deal!
Chill out - life is too short to stress over this stuff! :shades:
Glad to hear it unclebubba.who is star?My service guys are decent too but i get the impression they know more about the crd's than they let on.They did tell me 2 others were in for e.g.r.'s,but other than that no major issues.I'm quite happy with mine too after the e.g.r. was done 4 months ago.once the warranty is done I wonder if we can get rid of the egr like some of the older gassers?I drive in town with O/D off and sometimes on the highway as well to burn off some carbon as well as additive at every tank,seems to be workin,cheers....
farout, I think there is a bit of confusion on different web sites concerning longevity of the VM engine. The recent CRD has a solid 1 piece head and the older engines had individual cylinder heads. The newer 4 cyl engines should go well above 150,000 miles if well taken care of and driven conservatively . The Voyager 2.5 CRD has longer history records and 120,000 miles is a common figure for purchasing a second hand Voyager.
Dave, I am a high miler on the "company" vehicle that I drive ( CRD ) The CRD was my work vehicle. Bought it for all the obviuos reasons. My wife drives low miles on a Magnum RT and prefers an older Cherokee we have. So the RT is trade-in bait (loss of value not too bad) and the CRD replaces the RT that is in the garage most of the time. It can rotate between my garage and the dealership garage and an occasional outing ( 3rd position )
Even at that, $15,500 was all I could get for a $26,000 vehicle
Ouch! Looks like that dealer could give you their car at cost. The average price for a used 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD in the US is $24k. The lowest priced one on the Trader is $18,500. So they will make a very handsome profit. Too bad you could not take it on vacation to CA or TX. They cannot get enough to satisfy the demand. Good luck with your new ride.
imylovemyjeep1, I couldn't agree with you more. I agree that todays car salesman has limited product knowledge, a perverted view of capitalism and doesn't care about future business. You nailed it.
A new reflash of the ECM and TCM was released on July 14, 2006 (nearly 2 months after production of the CRD Liberty was halted early).
TSB 18-023-06 has produced smoother transmission shifting from 1-2 and 2-3 gears and thus far, my shudder at 53mph and 62mph can not be duplicated after 150 miles and two days of testing. I'm not prepared to declare victory - but I'm excited as it drives like an all new CRD right now.
Mine is an '05 CRD Sport built July 20, 2005.
As for trade in value, I traded in a 2004 Honda Element EX for this with 19,000 miles and 18 months of service on it and only took a $4000 hit (not really a hit considering the use I got). In Indiana, the trade in value is not subject to sales tax on the new vehicle, so my $16k trade was just shy of $17k value, so now only a $3000 hit from what I paid.
So the Honda only depreciated 15% in 1.5 years and it was mainly useage depreciation - it was like money in the bank. I will share that it too had many mechanical problems and bugs that needed worked out, but eventually it got fixed under warranty. Things like replacing the entire front transaxel assembly :surprise: .
I went to a Toyota dealer just to play around with the FJ Cruiser. I got their best value trade in offer on my CRD (with no intention of ever doing it) and it was just above black book value. Approximately 45% below my well negotiated purchace price - I was like - "your crazy, all you have to do it put my Jeep up on that elevated rotating pedastal of yours out on the street and put the word DIESEL on the windshield and it's gone. I get 30mpg, your FJ cruiser gets 17." The guy just smiled.
Their offers, or best values, are stupid - but I was happy I had my fun.
It was retail $225. It fits behind the factory radio in the dash (you have to do a little demo, but it is very simple - do it yourself, the dealer wanted $200.) I have the base radio, so some of commands for the ipod aren't available, but I'm going to order the 6-disc soon, and that gives me full music and podcast access. The cradle plug is in the glovebox, just plug it in and close the glovebox, you control the iPod thru the stereo. Pretty slick, actually. You also get an "aux in" jack for any audio source. Also, up thru 3G iPod only is usable thru the aux in, with no iPod control. Make the dealer call it in. It came out about a month ago.
Farout. I am 40 years old and i do not finance for for than 48 months. I have not payed window sticker for any vehicle I have purchased. My wife worked for a dealer in finance and knows the tricks they pull to overcharge you. I was make the statement from Kelly Blue Book to Window sticker on a vehicle 1 month old.
You bought a Hyundai ? That explains it all. Pardon me as I try to type over the laughter from the Hyundai dealer. As bugs bunny would say "what a maroone"
new2diesel: Everyone goes through some buyers remorse. Most buyers do go over a pro and con list before they buy the vehicle, afterwards is too late. Dealers especially like to deal with customers who dislike the brand they are driving. When a vehicle comes in with less than 12,000 miles and less than complementary about the brand they are driving, that's called a slam dunk buyer. When you go into a place and they can positively say they will give you X dollars wit out even seeing your vehicle, that sends lots of red flags up for me. No dealer sells at a loss! Not even a YUGO took the "drop like a rock" that you said was the very best deal you could get. I don't disagree with you that I am "Farout" Honestly I just can not afford to sell, trade, or give away this vehicle. I have a budget and if I overspend on the transportation budget that something else gets shorted. In all seriousness my wife and I prayed before we bought this vehicle, and unless we jumped the gun and got our message really misunderstood, I believe this vehicle is what I am to have. I am sure some think praying about buying a vehicle is pretty Farout, and I am "Farout" In all honesty Hunydia has made some grate improvements, and I think you will enjoy your new SUV. Good luck.
caribou1:Oh my! My 1996 Dodge Neon with the original engine, (except for a headgasket) has 187,000 miles on it. And I did not have to pay $2,000. extra for it. The miles you say are these US miles? If the miles you refer to are US miles I may turn blue, and pass out. That would be really bad as far as I am concerned.
tired old dave: Hey dave, called the local Jeep dealer and my CRD with 17,300 miles (and he has serviced my CRD all the way, so he pulled up the repair records, said our Sport will bring in $19,200. to $20,500. depending on how clean it looks. He says somewhere between $22,500 to $23,700. would be the selling price depending on if a trade in being used. I asked about the $15.000, new2diesel got. "someone got hurt bad." But maybe where new2diesel has a market flooded with CRD's. Who knows?
zachinmi: If you have not felt let down by this tire than you are just the buyer Good Year designed this tire for. Thats good that you are getting your monies worth. These tires would not last a month on the road we live on. These tires are a basic 2 ply 4ply rated tire. There is very little sidewall support, and in fact there is not much sidewall at all. These tires puncture very easly, thread thickness is just marginal. Glad you like yours.
Farout, we've been to the Ozarks in Arkansas. We drove through Missouri for one trip up north - got tired of the same path we usually took. Drop the name of your dealer again. Sounds interesting, drive there and get $5k more (but after the trannyectomy). Thank you.
Does anybody have an aftermarket brand and part number for the fuel filter for my o6 CRD? I would like to get a spare to keep on hand . The dealer wanted like 37.00 for one and I did an about face as I said no thanks. I know my buddy with a pSD buys his off e-bay, but i have no idea what I'm looking for in cross reference. Any numbers would be greatly appreciated!!
My 05 Liberty does not have the overhead digital display so I have to manaully calculate the fuel usage.
For some reason I cannot find an affordable aftermarket scanner that is 100% compatible with the Liberty. The Scan Guage II ( http://pureenergysystems.com/store/Scan_Gauge/ ) looked like a winner but said the Libery diesel did not report the fuel information. Pretty much a bummer as it was one device that was under $200. $165 to be exact
Has anyone found an affordable display for a Liberty ??? :confuse:
If you open the glovebox, above the obvious lower part is a fixed shelf big enough to fit the whole manual. It's not really hidden, but no one notices it until you point it out to them. The owner's manual won't fit in the other, main part of the glovebox. My salesman looked all over for how to get the manual in and couldn't figure it out (and no I don't think he was a dummy). I didn't notice it til I read about it on this board.
Has anyone here done much off roading with their spiffy little diesel Libby? I'm really curious how long it would take to rip the oil filter off the back of the engine since it hangs down off the diesel like a sore thumb. I haven't really seen one with a skid plate, but I'm pretty sure that's my next purchase, before I find any ruts in the logging trails. Turn the wheels all the way to one side or the other then go to the opposite side and look from about 20 feet away. Kinda scary the way it sticks out and down.
whlpny: I am sure you know anything with "Chrysler" or has any initials even related to DCX that's printed on the item, will add significant cost to the item. This because it gives you the assurance of quality......don't ya know? I think when I called NAPA they had a part that matched. If not $37. is not near as bad as $120. for the labor they want to change it for you! I went to Shell Rotella 5-40 w, because I can get this shell for $15.32 a gallon where Mobil 1 0-40w was $8.97 a quart. Not only is it $5.14 a quart less, I can find it almost everywhere. So now I get the dealer to do the oil change and save about $38. Someone might just see this post and give you an additional parts # for the water?sep filter.
steve05: Yep! My 1/2 mile of bad ruts,dirt, gravel, rocks and mud road would fit that category of off roading for sure. I have the skid plates, and I am glad we do. If you intend to do other than city folks driving, do not buy the longer oil filter, even if you have the skid plates. However I don't recall ever having someone post about an oil filter being punctured..... yet.
I get about 24-26 mpg driving to work. part country road/ part city.
On the highway I can get 32+ if I keep the RPM around 1900-1950. As you cross the 2000 RPM barrier the mpg starts to decline sharply. I drove from NY to UP Michigan (1500 miles one way) Going up I kept it around 2K and got 32-34 mpg. On the way back I went mostly 75 mph which was about 2100-2150 RPM and only got 26-27.
You really have to feather the gas pedal or cruise control buttons to get the perfect RPM. With 3 kids and a Hitch Haul I can go 68 mph at 1950 RPM, which resulted in the best MPG with my driving style.
I forgot to mention I was running a B10 mixture. I get B100(99.9) from http://www.yellowbiodiesel.com and mix myself with either 46 Cetane from Hess or Amocco Premium if I find a place that carries it.
Nope,just regular diesel from the same station,the additive and 0w40.The maintenance package I have covers something like 10 oil changes and the service guy said they won;t use anything but the oil recommended by DCX in order not to void the warranty.I figure if somethin lets go my [non-permissible content removed] is covered.Like I said before,I'm goin through the rockies this weekend coming and want to see how the tranny holds,guess I don't have much to gripe about so far,cheers...
Beorne Chrysler is right near San Antonio. They told me they sell them faster than they can get them. Have you tried the Craigslist or the Trader? I prefer Craigslist as it is free and works in CA very well.
farout, miles are miles... There is not enough data on the aging of the CRD engine. It's cheaper to get a new engine or a rebuilt one instead of changing the vehicle. What seems to wear are components from the injection system more than the body or transmission. In fact, most issues on this truck are related to Bosch
I am happy with my ScanGuage because I bought it for my other car. I doesn't read fuel pressure on the car either because the car does not put out the data. It was not supposed to work on the CRD because the data stream randomly quits. But it would work, sometimes, for hours at a time reading speed, water temp, input air temperature, rpm, voltage, turbo boost and fuel flow. Got a lot of good readings to learn about the engine (such as maximum boost is a healthy 23 lbs).
After the TSBs were applied to the ECM and TCU the ScanGuage no longer reads any output from the CRD! It still reads and, I assume, clears error codes on the CRD, but that is it.
"Report it to the NHTSA as a safety defect. Say something like almost L.O.S.T. control while driving. I figure if everyone does this they will be forced to recall it. Same goes for ball joints."
When the TC dies, so does the vehicle, when it happens it won't move leaving us stuck in traffic very suddenly when the traffic is moving.
Please everybody who has had the TC crap out or gone into limp mode due to it or even the EGR, write a complaint to the NTSB.
It could save a life It could force DC to fix this stuff for good and free.
I was looking at my 2005 owners manual and noticed on page 245, there is talk about Trac-Lok, the another paragraph warns about not doing something if you have a Limited-Slip Differental. They dont mention that these are one-of-the-same, but seem to indicate they are different.
1)Are they the same? 2)How can you tell if your vehicle is equipt with Trac-Lok
I need to choose the proper gear lubes for the differental, which I believe one first needs to know what they have.
My wife hasn't been completely been convinced that the Diesel was the way to go, but this weekend we drove up to West Virginia through the mountains and now she is sold. We made the trip from Aiken SC, through Spartanburg,SC and Up to WV approximatly 460 miles on a little over 16 gallons. Up the mountians @ 80mph I averaged 28+mpg and the libby never once downshifted while climbing. On the return trip with the cruse set at 65 coming down the montains the libby did down shift to hold me speed.
We made the same trip with her car in which mormally gets 30mpg gas and it got around 25 mpg and was constatly down shifting and on the way back your foot had better been on the break or you would die.
About half way back she was asking me when she could get a deisel
This better mpg in the high country is also noted in a lost post and was dismissed. (The target market set by dcx was Denver.) I've mentioned complete combustion before but am not briefed on the effects of the turbo boost. Something always pondered but never followed up on. Since they are still working the programming and you mention bosch is a weak point, is it possible the programming for the injectors leaves something to be desired. Just a question to learn from. The better half is going to test drive the '07 3.7 h3 and we will crunch the numbers. We know how tanking up can hurt after having two conversion vans recently, but adding up time and expenses on this, it doesn't really matter. Winter2, I just saw the rav4 posts about the radio, but more seriously unibody problems or that old problem from the past. Imported goods marked to a higher spec than testing reveals or bad assembly.
whlpny: Bad news. Dealer item only. Part # 52129238AA $36.58 and $27.20 labor. That's cheaper than I thought for the labor. Unless the light comes on first, I do not plan on changing our filter until 30,000 miles. Hope this helps in a small way.
caribou1: There is some irony here, an Italian engine and German injectors (does anyone make better ones that fit this 2.8?) fuel from Iran and wiring from Mexico.
I took my Liberty on a trip to Colorado the first week I had it. Got 29 mpg at one point going up from Raton Pass to Pueblo. Once back in Texas the average was back to 24-25 highway, all at the same speeds, around 70-75 mph.
I thought it was screw-up on the computer, but maybe there is something to this altitude thing...
At highway speeds aerodynamic drag is a huge factor in your fuel usage. At decent altitudes like you get in the Colorado Rockies, there is less air and therefore less drag. Most of Texas is fairly low altitude of course.
Unfortunately my recent trip to Colorado didn't give me better mileage in the mountains. I still got decent mileage, but not noticeably better.
From reading all these posts I'm amazed at how much range of fuel mpg there is for different owners. I seem to be pretty much in the middle, which is funny to me because I'm driving it very sedately and I managed to get the EPA rating on my Civic Hybrid, which not many people do.
The higher fuel pressure gives a finer mist in the cylinder. The turbo boost makes it possible to achieve a better combustion at low rpm. The limitation factor is mainly the emission of NOx due to higher temperature of exhaust gasses. The egr control circuit senses and limitates the oxygen content of the exhaust gas before and after the catalyser that can be warmed up by an additional post injection when needed. If I remeber well, the recent ECU can calculate up to 4 injection pulses per cylinder and per stroke. It's limit is something like a 6 cyl at 5000 rpm. All these parameters are defined by the emissions regulations of the country where we live. I have no idea how the ECU could handle an add-on kit that would extend the duration of injection pulses or the pressure of the pump since it sets itself according to the lambda sensor signal (total oxygen content in the burnt gas). Is there something to be desired? Probably a lighter vehicle using more composite materials and renewable energy :shades:
Comments
Chill out - life is too short to stress over this stuff! :shades:
Words to live by.
The CRD was my work vehicle. Bought it for all the obviuos reasons. My wife drives low miles on a Magnum RT and prefers an older Cherokee we have. So the RT is trade-in bait (loss of value not too bad) and the CRD replaces the RT that is in the garage most of the time. It can rotate between my garage and the dealership garage and an occasional outing ( 3rd position )
Ouch! Looks like that dealer could give you their car at cost. The average price for a used 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD in the US is $24k. The lowest priced one on the Trader is $18,500. So they will make a very handsome profit. Too bad you could not take it on vacation to CA or TX. They cannot get enough to satisfy the demand. Good luck with your new ride.
TSB 18-023-06 has produced smoother transmission shifting from 1-2 and 2-3 gears and thus far, my shudder at 53mph and 62mph can not be duplicated after 150 miles and two days of testing. I'm not prepared to declare victory - but I'm excited as it drives like an all new CRD right now.
Mine is an '05 CRD Sport built July 20, 2005.
As for trade in value, I traded in a 2004 Honda Element EX for this with 19,000 miles and 18 months of service on it and only took a $4000 hit (not really a hit considering the use I got). In Indiana, the trade in value is not subject to sales tax on the new vehicle, so my $16k trade was just shy of $17k value, so now only a $3000 hit from what I paid.
So the Honda only depreciated 15% in 1.5 years and it was mainly useage depreciation - it was like money in the bank. I will share that it too had many mechanical problems and bugs that needed worked out, but eventually it got fixed under warranty. Things like replacing the entire front transaxel assembly :surprise: .
I went to a Toyota dealer just to play around with the FJ Cruiser. I got their best value trade in offer on my CRD (with no intention of ever doing it) and it was just above black book value. Approximately 45% below my well negotiated purchace price - I was like - "your crazy, all you have to do it put my Jeep up on that elevated rotating pedastal of yours out on the street and put the word DIESEL on the windshield and it's gone. I get 30mpg, your FJ cruiser gets 17." The guy just smiled.
Their offers, or best values, are stupid - but I was happy I had my fun.
Dealers especially like to deal with customers who dislike the brand they are driving. When a vehicle comes in with less than 12,000 miles and less than complementary about the brand they are driving, that's called a slam dunk buyer. When you go into a place and they can positively say they will give you X dollars wit out even seeing your vehicle, that sends lots of red flags up for me. No dealer sells at a loss! Not even a YUGO took the "drop like a rock" that you said was the very best deal you could get.
I don't disagree with you that I am "Farout" Honestly I just can not afford to sell, trade, or give away this vehicle. I have a budget and if I overspend on the transportation budget that something else gets shorted.
In all seriousness my wife and I prayed before we bought this vehicle, and unless we jumped the gun and got our message really misunderstood, I believe this vehicle is what I am to have. I am sure some think praying about buying a vehicle is pretty Farout, and I am "Farout"
In all honesty Hunydia has made some grate improvements, and I think you will enjoy your new SUV. Good luck.
Farout
N2D
5,200 miles and happy. Blew his nose yesterday and the flutter appeared, but gas mileage improved.
Farout
Farout
Farout
My 05 Liberty does not have the overhead digital display so I have to manaully calculate the fuel usage.
For some reason I cannot find an affordable aftermarket scanner that is 100% compatible with the Liberty. The Scan Guage II ( http://pureenergysystems.com/store/Scan_Gauge/ ) looked like a winner but said the Libery diesel did not report the fuel information. Pretty much a bummer as it was one device that was under $200. $165 to be exact
Has anyone found an affordable display for a Liberty ??? :confuse:
That was cool, 4 months after storing the manual in the hall closet, it has finally found its home. Thanks!
I think when I called NAPA they had a part that matched. If not $37. is not near as bad as $120. for the labor they want to change it for you!
I went to Shell Rotella 5-40 w, because I can get this shell for $15.32 a gallon where Mobil 1 0-40w was $8.97 a quart. Not only is it $5.14 a quart less, I can find it almost everywhere. So now I get the dealer to do the oil change and save about $38.
Someone might just see this post and give you an additional parts # for the water?sep filter.
Farout
I have the skid plates, and I am glad we do. If you intend to do other than city folks driving, do not buy the longer oil filter, even if you have the skid plates. However I don't recall ever having someone post about an oil filter being punctured..... yet.
Farout
Farout
On the highway I can get 32+ if I keep the RPM around 1900-1950. As you cross the 2000 RPM barrier the mpg starts to decline sharply. I drove from NY to UP Michigan (1500 miles one way) Going up I kept it around 2K and got 32-34 mpg. On the way back I went mostly 75 mph which was about 2100-2150 RPM and only got 26-27.
You really have to feather the gas pedal or cruise control buttons to get the perfect RPM. With 3 kids and a Hitch Haul I can go 68 mph at 1950 RPM, which resulted in the best MPG with my driving style.
There is not enough data on the aging of the CRD engine.
It's cheaper to get a new engine or a rebuilt one instead of changing the vehicle. What seems to wear are components from the injection system more than the body or transmission. In fact, most issues on this truck are related to Bosch
I am happy with my ScanGuage because I bought it for my other car. I doesn't read fuel pressure on the car either because the car does not put out the data. It was not supposed to work on the CRD because the data stream randomly quits. But it would work, sometimes, for hours at a time reading speed, water temp, input air temperature, rpm, voltage, turbo boost and fuel flow. Got a lot of good readings to learn about the engine (such as maximum boost is a healthy 23 lbs).
After the TSBs were applied to the ECM and TCU the ScanGuage no longer reads any output from the CRD! It still reads and, I assume, clears error codes on the CRD, but that is it.
CREDIT TO REGGIE
Discussing the TC issues
"Report it to the NHTSA as a safety defect. Say something like almost L.O.S.T. control while driving. I figure if everyone does this they will be forced to recall it. Same goes for ball joints."
When the TC dies, so does the vehicle, when it happens it won't move leaving us stuck in traffic very suddenly when the traffic is moving.
Please everybody who has had the TC crap out or gone into limp mode due to it or even the EGR, write a complaint to the NTSB.
It could save a life
It could force DC to fix this stuff for good and free.
link title
1)Are they the same?
2)How can you tell if your vehicle is equipt with Trac-Lok
I need to choose the proper gear lubes for the differental, which I believe one first needs to know what they have.
Thanks
We made the same trip with her car in which mormally gets 30mpg gas and it got around 25 mpg and was constatly down shifting and on the way back your foot had better been on the break or you would die.
About half way back she was asking me when she could get a deisel
Farout
Farout
Farout
I thought it was screw-up on the computer, but maybe there is something to this altitude thing...
Unfortunately my recent trip to Colorado didn't give me better mileage in the mountains. I still got decent mileage, but not noticeably better.
From reading all these posts I'm amazed at how much range of fuel mpg there is for different owners. I seem to be pretty much in the middle, which is funny to me because I'm driving it very sedately and I managed to get the EPA rating on my Civic Hybrid, which not many people do.
All these parameters are defined by the emissions regulations of the country where we live.
I have no idea how the ECU could handle an add-on kit that would extend the duration of injection pulses or the pressure of the pump since it sets itself according to the lambda sensor signal (total oxygen content in the burnt gas). Is there something to be desired? Probably a lighter vehicle using more composite materials and renewable energy :shades: