Welcome Toyota Tundra - V

cliffy1 · May 2000

Check with the Insurance Institute of America on the effectiveness of ABS. Their study shows that ABS does NOT reduce either the frequency nor severity of accidents. This is why they are not mandatory on new vehicles and it is why Toyota made the decision to not make them standard. That surely is not an irresponsible decision. If you don't want to pay for them, why should you be forced to.

Like I said before, I like ABS and choose to have them on my truck. Your local dealership can get one for you if they want. If they will not, and you are willing to make a trip to VA, send me an e-mail.

z71bill · May 2000

I wonder how the Insurance Institute of America determined that ABS does not reduce accidents. The near miss - close call - almost rammed into the back of a car but was able to avoid the accident because driver was able to maintain control (because of ABS) would never be reported.

cliffy1 · May 2000

The reported accidents seem to equal the number from non-ABS cars so the near misses would be irrelevant. They are paying the same injury claims as well so you can't say that ABS at least reduces the severity of the accidents. The current theory is that people are not using them as designed. I can certainly understand how that can happen. I know full well that you are supposed to press, hold and steer but when it is happening, my instinct is to pump. In an emergency, instinct takes over.

Like I said, I choose ABS for my truck. I like it and am trying to change my habits but ABS is not the wonder cure for preventing accidents. I also think people tend to rely too much on them and drive beyond the bounds of safety but that is just an opinion.

modvptnl · May 2000

I'm sort of in between on ABS. I have it on my Cobra(no choice) I don't want it on my 4x4. There have been a few times, all 100% my fault, where the ABS on my car nearly caused an accident. It's not the end all to safety.

lukacs · May 2000

I've heard many people complaining about a vibration on the Tundra. They say they took it back to the dealer multiple times and it still persists. What do you know about this? Has Toyota come up with a cure yet? I really like the Tundra but I don't want to get one with the vibration problem.
Also, do you know when the 2001's will come out and if there will be any price increase?

z71bill · May 2000

I know what you mean about breaking the "pump the brakes to stop" habit. I have thought about this a few times. One complaint about the new Silverado is very sensitive ABS, they activate very quickly, before any other car/truck I have ever driven. This used to bug me, and I know from reading other posts that it is a common complaint. I look at the bright side, I am now used to having the ABS kick in. I have owned the Silverado for about 1 year and would guess the ABS has kicked in about 25 times. I have been lucky, none of the times were a real emergency, but when (if) I am ever in a real pending accident the ABS coming on will not be a surprise.

quadrunner500 · May 2000

If abs kicks in, it's not because it's too sensitive. It's because one or more wheels are locking up, and it's "pumping the brakes" for you, faster than you ever could, to keep it from skidding further. What we have to come to terms with, is how often this was happening during normal driving without abs. We got used to the skid, and controlling it, often without being aware it. But because of abs, we are made aware every single time it happens. If you are too late to apply the brakes, abs just means you will hit your target square, instead of looping it first.

Denver police thought they had abs problems in squad cars, at first. Turns out they were just used to controlling a skidding vehicle at it's limits. The solution for them? They got training on the uses, and limitations of abs. A skidding tire, on good surface can actually stop faster than one that is rolled to a stop. The issue is not stopping distance, it's control during braking.

modvptnl · May 2000

Your last sentence is why I'm ambivalent about ABS. There's been a few times I've come to a slippery intersection too fast and my car didn't stop because the ABS cycled! I would have taken a skid at that point over steering control since there was no where to go but into the back of a vehicle. Luckily I did stop finally.

trucksrme · May 2000

If it was swapped around, and them tundras had that ABS, and them big3 ones didnt, them yuppies would be yellin and hollerin on how "superior" them limited ones be, cuz of it. This be what they call that "yuppie logic", twistin the fact too justify that "superior" decision makin when reachin for the fad. Think bout this one. Good luck on this one now!

lukacs · May 2000

That's right, I'm from a foreign country. The name of the country is California. I'm sure that's foreign to you. And you are right, you have the right to speak up in this country. Therefore, I have the right to say I'm not interested in your opinion. But thanks anyway.

barlitz · May 2000

Speaking of Cal I read somewhere that they are very interested in building a lot of vehicles in that state because of all the foreign vehicles that come through shipping there,Any truth to that?

lukacs · May 2000

I haven't heard of that. Sorry, I can't answer your question.

jodytij · May 2000

A friend of mine mentioned to me this past weekend that Toyota has plans to build a "crew" cab on the Tundra. He said he read it in a magazine, but I didn't have a chance to ask which one. He did say that it is supposed to be a much larger cab with four doors and mentioned something about being able to see it in the Fall. I was planning on ordering the Tundra soon, but I will wait if this is true.

Has anyone heard this rumor? I can't find anything on the internet.

Thanks.

lmeyer1 · May 2000

jodytij, I've been trying to get an answer to this question myself. Here's what I know.

As you may know, there will be a true four door Tacoma, available this fall, and that could be what the magazine your friend was referring to was talking about.

I have seen a photo on the web of a four door Tundra, but I was told by several folks that it was a fake, and it sure looked that way to me.

Finally, none of the dealers I've asked has any knowledge about a four door Tundra.

I know this isn't much, but it's all I know.

cliffy1 · May 2000

Overactive ABS can be cured by an LSPV. A load sensing proportion valve comes on the Tundra (even ones without ABS) and reduces rear wheel lock up. It is a valve on the rear axle that directs most of the braking pressure to the front unless you load down the bed.

The Silverado has disc brakes on the rear which is great if you have a heavy load. If you don't you will need the ABS much more frequently than you should.

cliffy1 · May 2000

I don't have any release date or pricing, but I did find out something interesting. The bed liner for the 2000 will not fit on the 2001. My parts guys told me this so I must assume something is changing.

trucksrme · May 2000

Dont know when, but that common sense be tellin ya it cant be too far off now. All them trucks be goin too them 4 doors now, forein and US ones. Folks be lovin em, but I dont be gettin this one. Good luck on this one now!

quadrunner500 · May 2000

Silverado has proportioning valve that adjusts braking bias between front and rear axles, in addition to 4 wheel discs and abs. Good luck on this one now!

z71bill · May 2000

salesman to tell us about the features on the Silverado.

4 door Tundra -

From the many posts I have read from Tundra owners I thought most were happy with the back seat of the Tundra. Things like I don't have any friends or family and my Tundra suits my needs just fine. The tools I put in the back never complain about lack of leg room.

If Toyota does come out with a Truck that can carry people in the back would it shorten the bed to 3 feet or make the truck longer?

trucksrme · May 2000

Aint them beds already 3 ft now? Good luck on this one now!

cliffy1 · May 2000

I really expect better from you to lay that salesman crap on me. Bill, you were the one who complained about the ABS activating too often and logic would indicate that if your Silverado has an LSPV, it doesn't work very well. Maybe GM should ask Toyota about using theirs.

Also, how many piston calipers does the Chevy have? Two! Wow, no wonder you need discs in the rear.

quadrunner500 · May 2000

No need to get huffy. You made the assumption about the Chevy not having the brake bias proportioning valves, which it does.

I'm delighted with the 4 wheel disc abs brakes.
Truck Trend had the following braking results:

Silverado empty 60-0: 133 ft
Silverado 1000# payload 60-0: 135 ft

Tundra empty 60-0: 127 ft
Tundra 1000# payload 60-0: 141 ft

I'd say the Silverado does a pretty good job balancing the brakes between a load and empty, especially for a full size truck.

As for the number of pistons in the caliper, I don't know, because no one has had to replace brake pads yet. With 27,000 miles on mine, pads still look about 75%.

I think there are many nice features to the Tundra, to go along with a few negatives. But I would not consider the drum brakes on the Tundra to be one of the positives.

z71bill · May 2000

I don't think I was complaining about the ABS in the Silverado, although many people do. If a problem exists it is because they react to quickly and activate during normal stops.

The Tundra does have the good brakes, Ford and Chevy are close in braking power when empty, but they stop better when you have a load. The Dodge should come with an anchor that you could throw out the window in an emergency.

I work with sales people every day - my company people as well as our suppliers. I do recognize their importance to any company. No company can survive without sales.

present4u · May 2000

Hmn... Sign of the times. Check the UAW site for the press release.

Buy Toyota products: They're not made by America-hating Communist sympathizers like the Unionist trash that patrol the Edmunds Tundra boards.

Next thing you know, we'll be seeing our favorite villains screaming for convicted cop-killer Mumia Abul Jamal to be released from prison.

Maybe he'll even be their spokesman, just as soon as they fire the Bionic Woman from her job of selling Fords.

cwirth · May 2000

Another one for Tundra:Toyota captured or tied for the top spot in quality in eight of 14 vehicle segments, including the best compact car, Toyota Corolla; best premium luxury car, Lexus LS 400; and best full-size full-size pickup, Toyota Tundra; and best minivan, Toyota Sienna.

Source: JD Powers

paulfolse · May 2000

I began noticing a shimmy in the steering wheel of my Tundra SR5 when I applied bakes moderately at speeds over 40 mph. I took the truck to the dealer who told me there was a service bulletin BR003-00 alerting them of this problem on some trucks.
The dealer resurfaced the rotors and replaced the brake pads under warranty. End of problem.

trucksrme · May 2000

The turnin of them new rotors nothin too be happy on now. Rotors aint got much "turn" in em, so the next time ya be needin a brake job, best be countin that expense of them rotors now. This be just another example how that "myth" of reliabilty aint so. Good luck on this one now!

lemonjeep2 · May 2000

Now trucksrme spouts off that since the tundra came out on tops of the owners initial quality survey, that it some how must be rigged. Yup Yup, guess so, must be rigged by golly.

Lets not forget that these are OWNERS SURVEYS, ands CHEVY OWNERS rated thier own truck poorer than the Tundra's in problems per thousand.

quadrunner500 · May 2000

Most appealing full size pickup truck.

Yes...it's true.

bamatundra · May 2000

WOW! I'm impressed! "most appealing" That must be like winning "miss congeniality" in a beauty contest.

bamatundra · May 2000

You just don't get it. TUNDRA - J.D Powers award winner for best initial quality in full size
pickups.

In contrast Consumer Reports rated Silverado -90%
in predicted reliability for 2000. And 4WD
vehicles rated worse. It was off their charts!
This was based on customer surveys filled out by
OWNERS of 1999 Silverados.

Now who am I to believe - a hick who does not have
a second grade knowledge of grammar and spelling
or two surveys conducted by well respected
consumer advocacy groups?

By the way - Chevy as a manufacturer ranked 26th by JD Powers. They just beat out Hyundai in 30th. That's that good old Chevy quality for you.

Toyota tied for 4th with BMW.

rooster9 · May 2000

I just have to say that I think the Tundras are proving to be a reliable truck so far, especially for being a first year model. Imagine what they'll be like when all the bugs are worked out.

quadrunner500 · May 2000

Eat your heart out. 27,000 trouble free miles. The genuine, full size article. Need a lift to the credit union?

dogster · May 2000

What some big 3 owners have been missing on this board, since they don't own Tundras, is that the Tundra is so smooth, so quiet inside that you can hear the proverbial tick of the clock (old Rolls Royce ad). So any vibration, noise, bounce etc. you notice. I've had many other vehicles that spent so much time bouncing around with exhaust, wind, tire noise etc. that you would miss any vibration or noise that you hear in the Tundra. I personally have had none of the problem Trucksrme and his buddies blow out of proportion. It's nice to own a vehicle where all I have to do is check the oil and tire pressures.

trucksrme · May 2000

Now ya blamin that vibratin and rattles in them tundras on the fact that they be so quiet? Gotta love this logic now. Speakin on quality, what bout all them toyotas with busted head gaskets and rusted out frames now, lets not be forgettin these ones now. Fact is the fact on this now. Folks work them big3 ones, and they still be lastin far longer than any of them forien ones now. This just be how it is. Tundra: less truck/more buck. Good luck on this one now!

cwirth · May 2000

I have just over 28,000 miles on my Tundra, not even a year old. NO vibrations, rattles, anything. How many Chevy owners can say that' Trucksrme? A few but not many.

trucksrme · May 2000

I reckin any of them big3 ones can say the same now. The "big" difference between them tundras and them big3 ones be:

The size: The big3 ones be "full size"
The cost: The tundra costs be higher

Said before, sayin it again now: tundra=less truck, more buck. Good luck on this one now!

redfox1 · May 2000

I have now had my Tundra for one year, having picked it up 25 May, 1999. Its a SR-5, Access Cab, 4X4, V-8. The only ammenity I added to it was a Snug Top Lid. The truck now has 14,521 miles on it and has used 852.68 gallons of gas for a 17.58 mpg. The only service the truck has had are 4 oil changes, tire rotation and the factory recall/replacement of the rear tail lights. There have been no other problems--no vibrations, blown head gaskets, metal filings in the valve train or other problems that trucksome, quadrunner500, budlitedude and other Tundra bashers forecasted/wished for. Am I completely happy with my purchase? Yes. Would I buy another Tundra? Yes. And I am not a hippie. At least my 40 year old children would never classify me as one. Does the Tundra need improvements? Yes. The drivers side arm rest is for the "birds". The rear seat needs to be reclined 15-20 degrees. The low vision head light system should be reworked. The dash board clock should be repositioned for better night time visibility. Could use a second gas tank ala Ford F-150. After driving Ford F-150's for 17 years, I am completely happy with the change. The Tundra has been a very reliable vehicle for this first year. I will save this message to repost next year!

barlitz · May 2000

I'm sorry but I didn't buy my truck to hear the tick of a clock, I bought it to do truck stuff and I don't mean buying groceries or taking Fido to the park.BTW I'll be thinking of all of you on my cruise this weekend taking the Destiny out of Boston Harbor up to Canada for memorial day weekend,The first cruise Monday had problems but ours scheduled for Friday is a go the ship has been repaired.3000 passengers and all Tundra owners are walking the plank per order of my sidekick Captain Blood.

trucksrme · May 2000

Sounds like ya been "workin" that hiway really hard with that one. Them limited ones be good for that type of work now. Franklins 2000 Chevy been takin it easy now, just workin the farm with it now. It aint had no troubles, aint had no factory recalls now, it aint rattlelin or nothin. Course, like I said, we just funnin around on the farm with it, workin it and such. Aint been "workin" it hard like ya been doin that limited one now. Good luck on this one now!

81chevy · May 2000

Now to the Big 3 Lovers, such as myself, it is kinda funny to hate the Tundra so much (this from me who hates that F150 look-a-like yuppie truck)

The Tundra making about 100,000 a year will be about 4% of the fullsize truck market, Toyota will always be the little guy of trucks, like the Tacoma its sales don't compare to that of Ford Rangers or Chevy S10 (I'm not shure on this one but pretty shure).

The Toyota will have a place and will not go away, the [non-permissible content removed] cars have always been for people that are higher on the income level and think they are better than the average man so they don't want to be in a Ford Chevy or Dodge because those are the trucks that fleets use, contructions use, etc. They are the high class pickup, and their are a small amount of people out there that are buying trucks just to have a pickup, not because they need the bed

now I"m shure Tundra owners can agree with me that most tundra owners never put anything in their bed!

trucksrme · May 2000

Reason that factory aint goin sell too many be simple. The folks who be buyin them tundras be chasin the fad, they be off, chasin the next fad soon enough now. This be why them t100 ones never took now. Funny how them folks be thinkin they be "workin" them trucks, and they be "truck" people now, when all they really be is a yuppie chasin the fad now. Good luck on this one now!

dbhull · May 2000

Not going to argue for, against or otherwise. Just wanted to add to the list of happy Silverado ownership. 22k miles and my Silverado is trouble-free. Runs stronger the more miles I put on it!
It tows strong, hauls like there is nothing in it's bed, and does it with the best fuel economy of any 1/2 ton on the US market today.

I have owned imports in my past. Not any more impressed with them than my Silverado as far as reliability and quality. My Silverado will haul and tow much more without strain too.

Happy scooting to all.

trucksrme · May 2000

This be the same fact for most any of them big3 owners now. For some reason, them tundra folks be thinkin they got them exclusive rights too the find runnin rig now. They be thinkin cuz they paided more bucks for a smaller truck there must be the advantage in there some where now. They be latchin on too that "Reliablility" myth, figurin this be the reason they be payin more for them "mid size" ones than a "full sizer" now. But posts like ya one be stingin em, cuz they be relizin the truth for sure. Them big3 ones be just as reliable, work harder, last longer, and be "full size" too boot. Facts is facts. Good luck on this one now!

superjim2000 · May 2000

"the [non-permissible content removed] cars have always been for people that are
higher on the income level and think they are
better than the average man so they don't want to
be in a Ford Chevy or Dodge because those are the
trucks that fleets use, contructions use, etc."

Thats from #564. You have to have higher income, how else can you afford a $700 alternator?

Geez whats a GM, Ford or Dodge, $100 on a bad day?

Dont say they never need parts or break down, they all do.

I'll stay American, Union and employed.

trucksrme · May 2000

Funny how ya never hear them folks chimein up on that fact that them parts be costin like 8 times as much for them ones now. Once again provin what many be sayin, tundra: less truck, more buck. Good luck on this one now!

dbhull · May 2000

I am not rich, but have done quite well in my career and in the stock market. I have enough money to pay cash for any new truck on the market today. I would not do that, because I can make more money leaving my money in stock than I will lose in an auto loan, which are at an almost all time low right now anyway.

My point is that I buy the best value and hopefully that choice is also the best for our fellow Americans and our American economy. I still buy American trucks as preference. I don't wear Izod and Polo shirts either. I have a good stash of money because I am thrifty in how and when I spend it.

abcpalletman · May 2000

All these opinions I've found more entertaining than fact. To the question who makes a better truck? (reliable, sturdy & tough) It's a matter of preference from experience.
Some folks swear by one make while others swear at it. What about the high price of parts? My guess why you don't hear about the high cost of foreign parts is probably due to the fact they rarely need them!
My first car was a used 1968 Plymouth Sport Satelite (American Made muscle car) Not much went wrong.
My second & fourth new cars (an 80'Honda Prelude and 91' Accord) needed one starter, alternator, two clutches and batteries replaced in 158,000 miles. My third car was an 80'Olds with 29,000 miles I bought from my grandmother when she could no longer drive. I replaced more in two years and 20,000 miles than in anything previous. I presently drive an 85'Toyota Xtra cab 4x4. It has 177,000 work miles on it. I drive 60 miles every other week with 2400 pounds of nails in the back. During the winter not a day goes by without having to pull a 6000 pound forklift out of foot deep mud. Not bad for 4 cylinder 22R. Don't ever say my Toy is a toy.
That fact is, the only reason foreign vehicles ever got a foothold in the US market was because Detroit couldn't make a decent car from the late 70's to the mid 80's! I also believe they forgot the lesson they learned back then!
I also drive a 96 Windstar that needs brake work
every 16,000 miles, tie rod ends every 24,000 miles rear window defroster contacts, power window
tracks, new locks and ignition switch all in the first 36,000 miles. We only have 59,000 on it presently! The best thing about my Windstar was 4.9% financing and the final payment went out last week!
I'm sold on foreign until the US auto makers come clean about problems and defects as well as make reliable vehicles.
Soon as the new Toyota Sequoia Ltd 4x4 SUV (Tundra Outfit) comes out in the fall it will be in my driveway. I'll still keep my 85' so I can pretend to work pulling forklifts and hauling nails!
It's not a matter bucks in the bank it's preference from experience. If what you deem to be reliability is worth extra dollars then you pay it.
Live, laugh and love what you drive!

trucksrme · May 2000

And I thought some folks was strechin and pullin that truth. This one be the winner now:

I drive 60 miles every other week with 2400 pounds of nails in the back. During the winter not a day goes by without having to pull a 6000 pound forklift out of foot deep mud.

Best be puttin the scale too them nails now. Aint no little toy be haulin 2400 lbs of nothin, no 60 miles! Makes ya wonder how much of them other tells be based in fact now. Good luck on this one now!

abcpalletman · May 2000

I can tell that you were a math major!

(1) If a 85' Toyota 4x4 carries a pallet of nails containing 48 boxes of bulk nails and each box weighs 50 pound. How many total pounds of nails is the Toyota carrying? (hint: don't let the make year or GVW "gross vehicle weight" fool you)

(2) If that same Toyota carrying those same ______
(no help) pounds of nails travels from San Leandro to Antioch, and San Leandro, CA is 15 miles from Oakland, and Oakland is 45 miles from Antioch, CA. How many total miles is the truck traveling? (Hint: don't let the fact that there are two sets of coastal range mountains "foothills" you must cross to get there fool you)

Now I won't say that I dont restack the nails to keep that much weight to the front of the rear wheels which gives better driver control, nor did I say 4 cylinders and 1" brakes get off the line quick or stops even quicker, (thats what a manual transmission is for) but never the less it is overloaded and doesn't mind it.

I also work my truck hard around Christmas time delivering green wooden Christmas Tree Stands that often total one thousand board feet.... Oh "Bonus Questions"

(Bonus) If the same Toyota pick-up carries 1000 board feet of Christmas Tree stands made from green (wet) wood, and a semi-truck carries 48,000 lbs of green lumber totaling 19,000 board feet.
How much do the stands weigh that the Toyota is delivering? (you can ask your freinds for help)

Each stand contains 1.66666 board feet. How many stands are on the truck and how much does each one weigh?

Finally foreign vehicles weren't always more expensive. It wasn't until the government put trade imbalance import taxes on them to make people shy away from higher foreign prices in the early 80's. What has truely happened is that people finding foreign quality to be better in late 70's to mid 80's have already been sold on foreign and associate higher prices with better quality as a result!
My experience with my first New American made (Windstar)car has only reconfirmed my belief!

Pass in your papers class!

Welcome Toyota Tundra - V

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