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Comments
Despite their current popularity, I never liked Nissans that much. Drove quite a few as rentals and was not impressed.
From 1964 to 1994 I bought 8 new Japanese vehicles from Toyota, Honda, Nissan (Datsun), & Subaru. The only one that was trouble free was the 1970 Datsun PU. Great little truck. The rest were poor unreliable vehicles.
My second car in life was a 1980 Nissan/Datsun 200SX from which I got 323,000 miles before trading it in 1991 and getting $300 for the trade-in. I went 25,000 miles between oil changes and never had a problem with the engine. I replaced a corroded radiator and a clutch, and that was it besides basic maintenance. It was an amazing car. Not that Nissan makes cars like THAT anymore, but they DID back then......:)
Despite this the only things that does not make me eager about Nissan are my subjective tastes and opinions. Both of these were formed while driving rental Nissan cars. This conclusion just reflects my preferences.
You may very well be correct concerning recent Nissan vehicles. I did buy a 1976 Datsun PU to replace the 1970. It was not as well built and would not start in cold weather. I sold it after a year. I think the only rental Nissan was down in Cabo. It was just another little car and does not stand out. It did not leave me stranded or I would remember. I almost always rent from Hertz (Ford) or Alamo (GM).
PS
I tried renting a Prius this last time in Hawaii. I don't think they are rented there.
Unless you have a friend/family member with a Prius, renting is about the only way you can test drive a Prius.
The RDX may just be a small vesion of the MDX. That would definitely dampen my enthusiasm.
http://www.ai-online.com/industry_detail.asp?id=670
Oh well, with 2 tons on the move, what's a few hundred extra pounds of batteries and hybrid gear?
My partner got 20-21 mpg on the highway consistently with his Yukon/Tahoe. His wife wanted the smaller Envoy that never gets over 18 mpg. Smaller isn't always better...
"GM and DaimlerChrysler officials said they aim to develop technology that will leapfrog today's hybrids and provide even greater fuel economy and towing power than those offered now by Toyota, Ford Motor Co. and other car makers. They declined to say how many hybrid vehicles they expect to build annually, but said they believe industry estimates that hybrids could account for as much as 15% of the overall car market are realistic."
Remember the once invincible Sony's Betamax. Please read the following quote:
"The GM-DaimlerChrysler tie-up raises the possibility that the world's auto makers are headed for a VHS vs. Betamax-like technology war to line up suppliers behind their respective camps. While car makers take much of the credit for developing new technologies, they rely heavily on their suppliers for research and expertise to make them commercially viable."
The key to who wins the hybrid battle is the following:
"One big key to the hybrid race will be which group can drive down the cost of its technology the fastest. Right now, most hybrids carry about a 15% price premium above regular versions of the same vehicle. Ford's hybrid Escape has a sticker price of about $3,500 more than a comparably equipped gasoline Escape, which goes for around $27,000. The group that narrows the premium the fastest will have an edge in winning over the customers who want hybrid-powered cars"
But this is not about GM only. It will involve Subaru, Opel and Saab It involves Daimler Chrysler. . Yes I know DC's history is not the best too. What about a hybrid SMART, a hybrid HEMI combo or performance oriented hybrid MBs.
Imagine what would happen if Nissan or BMW joined? This joint effort appear to be an open invitation for other car manufacturers.
This joint effort is just the beginning of something bigger. Especially since the current hybrid craze does not look like a trend that will die out.
More noise than substance at this time. And benchmarking their final product based on today’s hybrid is no way to get started. I’ve more faith in taking one step at a time than taking a leap to start with. By the time DCX/GM deliver something, Honda and Toyota would have had more real time experience. They aren’t going to be sitting where they are today.
In the Dodge ESX3, Daimler-Chrysler has moved significantly closer to its goal: the most advanced environmentally friendly technology packaged in a vehicle that customers will want to drive and can afford to own.
http://www.yeworld.net/index/Culture/SZ/Auto/CM/143_20011125/143%- 2031%2020011125153637.asp
http://www.allpar.com/model/intrepid-esx3.html
How about making guinea pigs out of US buyers. Is that more palatable? The Prius would not even pass EPA safety standards. It was given a waiver to get higher fuel cars on the road. I call that dumping on the People.
It would be kind of premature to say that Honda/Toyota have monopolized such execution skills---especially since the Hybrid craze has just recently taken off. (compliments from OPEC)
I think this is great news---competition will cause Toyota/Honda to make further improvements in their hybrid systems.
Innovation would be much slower if Honda/Toyota were the sole producers of hybrid systems.
Also this is not about GM itself(they do have an impressive SUV/truck fleet anyway). It is also about Subaru, Saab and Opel. It is also about hybrid performance Mercedes Benzes, gas miserly hybrid Smart Cars,Hemi-hybrid versions of Chryslers.
And it does not stop there. This joint endeavor appears to be open for others. What if Nissan, VW, or BMW joins. What if all automakers joins this endeavor---then the Betamax vs. VHS scenario would be repeated(not a favorable scenario for Toyota or HOnda)
I remember when I took the Prius test drive when they first came to San Diego. I asked about their safety rating. If I remember correctly the saleman told me they had not been tested and were issued a waiver, so they could be sold. It looks like they are now tested with a 3 star driver rating, and a 4 star passenger.
Choosing 17mpg instead of 13mpg still saves more gas than choosing 40mpg instead of 30mpg in a typical 15k year.
As in one hybrid system being better accepted than the other by consumers. This is likely to happen if the hybrid premium is significantly lower for DC-GM vehicles.
"Ford and Nissan are already licensing the technology, with Porsche (then probably VW) shortly to follow"
Ofcourse Toyota almost has a Monopoly, unlike Sony. If there was an alternative Nissan and Ford may go elsewhere.
Honda - three production gas/electric hybrid cars
Ford - one production gas/electric hybrid car (SUV)
GM - multiple production gas/electric hybrid trucks ... and so on.
Doesn't look like a monopoly to me.
No offense to Honda, GM or Ford, but I dont know of any deals in which these three firms are the licsensor.
Just different ways to do business, especially in case of Honda, we know how little the company reveals until it is time.
The vice versa may happen. Or both may coexist and make a lot of money. I dont have a crystal ball. If this is about probabilities I think Toyota/Honda currently has the upper hand . But that does not mean we shoud rule out any joint challenges to Toyota/Honda/Ford hybrids.
VHS vs. Betamax applies to only two groups
1)Toyota/Honda/Ford
2)GM-DC Joint venture( and any other company joins their venture)
Who becomse the successful VHS version---only time will tell.
Culliganman (trouble-free miles in my Prius)
far.
www.technologyreview.com/view/article.asp?p=12067
So 250,000 Prius + 22,000 Estima = 270,000. A real
milestone.
Toyota is actually selling 7 hybrids vehicles
(though only 1 in USA).
(though only 1 in USA).
There are dozens of vehicles around the world that get better than 45 mpg combined. In CA only 3 are allowed to be sold. The Environmentalists that control the EPA & CARB are not concerned with fossil fuel usage or Ozone depletion. They have their agenda and don't care what the rest of the world is doing.
Sounds kinda conspiratorial to me.....
Educate us: what is that agenda if it is not the "proclaimed" agenda?
Conservation, while being practical is a tough combination, and couple that to other major issues like pollution (direct and indirect) and things couldn’t get any more complicated. Single dimensional thought process won’t take you anywhere.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/12/turning_the_pri.html
I would plug my Hybrid Civic in EVERY NIGHT if it had an option like this....
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/12/on_the_wings_of.html
For sure, for sure, a Solar or Wind power option would be preferable. But if you have the EV mod on the Prius with a cable that plugs into a 110 outlet for power, then you COULD create a home-based solar panel or wind system that powered a battery and then patch that system to a 110 outlet, so you could power the Prius with solar, conceivably.
Some envirofan will do this in time, I feel sure.
___I found Ernie’s approach interesting but dropping the Beetle’s Cd from .38 to .28 with no actual measurements other then FE? You know both you, I, and about 100 other Hypermilers in the country could easily take a Beetle TDI from 52 to 58 mpg at a loss of a few seconds per mile with any rolling hills/valley or overpass, pressed up tires, low kinematic viscosity oils, speed, 4 types of drafts, various coasting techniques, parking techniques, timing and rabbit timing techniques, pulse driving under certain traffic conditions, etc. so until the predictions of aerodynamic improvements are actually measured, I have to say there might be quite a bit of bunk in Ernie’s claims until proven otherwise.
___Hopefully someone has E-Mailed him with a link to this thread/post for his own rebuttal?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Personaly I have driven Maruti-Suzuki (a car with 0.8 liter engine)
sold in India which gives 52 MPG (22 km/l).
But it has
NO AC
NO Automatic
NO ABS
NO Air-bags
No Cruise-Control
and it can touch a max speed of only 80 MPH (130 km/h)
and also its a very small vehicle.
I dont think it will pass US emissions standards.
If you are talking about a car like this, then its not for
discussion in the forum.
Instead if you are talking about a vehicle like Aveo, Echo, etc
American public has rejected those because of their small size
and under performance.
So we want a decently sized vehicle which is fit for an American
family and it also gives 45 MPG. And those are
Toyota Prius
Honda Civic Hybrid.
Those who want a slightly bigger vehicle can go in for Ford-Escape.
The comparison should not be between 17 vs 13 mpg, but rather 17 MPG vs 40 MPG. That would make a significant environmental difference.
haul 3 tons of load.
Then they should design a vehicle with 2 engine
modes. Light mode when the vehicle goes empty and
the Power mode when vehicle carries full weight.
Then it can get somewhere around 30 MPG.
Did I say their agenda was not out in the open? They trade off high mileage for super clean air in cars and let trucks, trains, planes and ships spew all they want. They do not care that the more fuel that is burned the worse the GHG gets. A diesel car that gets 45 mpg is not a problem. It is a trade-off, slightly more NoX and less CO2 than gas cars.
With light truck sales jumping from 5.4 million (1993) to 9.0 million (2003), getting 40 mpg instead of 17 mpg could certainly make a huge difference. The question is how we get 40 mpg out of light trucks that are in vogue.
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/details.php?cid=380
___Since I am already receiving an average of 37.4 mpg from the 03 Ranger XLT in 20 - 40 degree F temps (it only has 8,300 miles on it to date), allow the NA Ranger’s to include the 1.6 or 2.0 TDCi’s listed on the previous page and it might be worth an average of 50 - 55 mpg with the right driver and setup? The std. Escape should be good for 30/40 mpg with the 2.0 per the EPA City/Highway. This would come without the huge premium’s some are paying for Hybrid’s nowadays although Common-rail injection technology and variable vane turbo’s aren’t free by any means either :-(
___If you have followed some of the Truck Diesel threads, the full-sized DC’s, Ford’s, and GM’s are achieving low to mid 20’s out on the highway and mid to high teens in and around town. Imagine a standard F-150 w/ a 3.0 - 3.5 L TDCi receiving in the low 30’s out on the highway (without towing) w/ a tow cap of maybe 2,000 #’s? 40 mpg? Not from one of these un-aerodynamic 4,000 # behemoth’s just yet anyway.
___Then again, I did hit the following in the MDX a few months ago and it isn’t a diesel or a hybrid
___In other words, 40 mpg might not be possible but low to mid 30’s should be achievable with today’s technology.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I think maybe the definition of "a problem" is indeed a part of the problem. (follow that?)
Let's take this over to the "Hybrid vs Diesel" debate.....see ya there, Gary..........