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Porsche 911



  • panozmanpanozman Posts: 7
    I have a Panoz Roadster. It is fun to drive but only when it is not raining. I've been thinking about one of those 997's (nice), when business picks back up. But for now, I'll have to settle for those nice late spring and summer evening cruises, in my Roadster. Once I do decide to buy, it will be hard not to at least look at the Esperante. It is not very many auto plants around, where you can make a short drive (Georgia) and watch your car being built. The Panoz team are just good car guys, that love what they do.
  • billtnbilltn Posts: 2
    I'm a newbie to this forum and to Porsche, but I'd like your opinion. I bought an '05 911S coupe with 10k miles about a month ago from a Porche dealer in a nearby city. I noticed on the 4 hour ride home that it had a noticeable vibration at interstate speeds. The salesman said to have the tires balanced. I did that this morning, and found that all 4 wheels are bent and out of round. Upon calling the dealer where I purchased the car, they suggest I return it and let them have someone fix the wheels to factory specs, while they provide a loaner for a couple of days. Besides the fact that this requires an out of town trip, I don't want wheels that have been "fixed". I paid almost 80k for this car and shouldn't have to settle for bent wheels. What I'd really like is for them to give me the full value I paid toward the purchase of a new 911. Is that unreasonable?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I don't think a refund is unreasonable. Especially given that it appears likely that this vehicle must have been abused in order for someone to have bent all 4 wheels. I have heard of a single rim bent by a whopper of a pot hole, but this sounds like someone took it airborne over railroad tracks. Wonder what else was abused - the engine??

    P.S. The Porsche dealership I visited this afternoon has taken back a 2005 911 Convertible with under 500 miles for a pinhole leak in one of the engine gaskets. The purchaser is getting a brand new car and the entire engine is being replaced on the original. That indicates to me that your request for a refund/credit, under the circumstances, is not unreasonable.
  • sclarksclark Posts: 2
    I just picked up my new 997 cab, 3 weeks ago, yesterday, a passenger noticed a whistle coming from the right hand side mirror.
    Has anyone else had this problem, if so what can be done?
  • billtnbilltn Posts: 2
    I can't comment on the whistle from your mirror since I haven't noticed it on mine, but as a followup on the bent wheels, the dealer gave me a full credit toward a new 997. So I am now the proud owner of a brand new Lapis Blue/Sand Beige 997S coupe (with round wheels). Love the car! Good luck with your mirror issue.
  • ctf00ctf00 Posts: 7
    My Cab has the same whistle must be coming from the hole in the mirror I am going to ask the dealer if the whistle was extra
  • djt21djt21 Posts: 13
    I've had my 997 for about 5 months now, and no wind noise from the passenger mirror. Sorry.
  • 1sttimer1sttimer Posts: 4
    Ive had my 997 black cab.. for 2 months... no problems.. just great handling and driving... love it... good luck
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I am considering a new 2005 Boxster S at about 8% +/- off MSRP (around $4,800 off a sticker of $60,200). I test drove the Boxster s today and was reasonably impressed with its performance (acceleration good, handling great). However, the interior left me a little cold. It did not have the PCM/navigation system and the center console, as well as plastic looking dash looked cheap in a $60k car.

    I've also found an incoming seal grey 2005 911 Cabriolet that stickers for $89k that the dealer is willing to "work with me" on the price.

    What is realistic to shoot for on a discount on a new 2005 911 Cabriolet?? Consider that I could order a 2006 for delivery in October, at $1-2k under MSRP.

    Also, if I were to order a 2006 model, the 911 S appears to be a relatively better deal. When you equip both cars similarly and compare apples to apples, the 3.6 to 3.8 liter engine upgrade is only about $6k, (under 8%). The Boxster S carries closer to a $10k premium (almost 10%) over the base Boxster. I am sure the performance of the base 911 is very adequate, but would the "S" be a better investment, in the event I elect to trade or sell it in a few years?

    Any comments/opinions on the pros and cons of the 911 vs the Boxster S would be appreciated, as well. I certainly like the fact that the 911 can carry my two kids in the back seat, although that's also where my golf clubs would need to go.

    Thanks in advance for any feedback.
  • s4to911s4to911 Posts: 12
    Boxster S--fantastic car, tossable, planted, more power now than in previous years.

    911 S Cab--fantastic blow you away car.

    I bought my 2005 911 S Cab about one month ago (Midnight Blue/Sand Beige, no options except Bose sound upgrade, Navigation, heated seats, metallic paint) and I have not stopped wondering in amazement how I got hold of this beast. I think that there is nowhere else to go in terms of the absolute best convertible that you can buy (if money is no object--we are talking at least 93-95K without tax). Sure, there are Ferraris, Lambos, etc, but consider that with a 911 S Cab you have a near supercar that you can drive to work, lug the kids around in, and (yes) store you golf clubs in in rear seat. I have done all three with my 911.

    At the same time you can take it out by yourself at 10-11 at night after the kids are asleep on a warm summer night, drop the top, put in a MP3 disk of your favorite tracks (yes, after late April builds the CD player plays MP3 disks, 120 tracks per disk, and the Bose package to my surprise sounds excellent with the top down), and find your local twisty road with noone on it. With the rear engine behind you spooling up in second and third gear, and with the near perfect balance engineered into this car, you feel like you are a rally driver in the German Black Forest. Sounds ridiculous--but true.

    Alternatively, keep the top up. Find your local stretch of smooth highway. Put the PASM (Porsche Active Stability Management--basically an adjustable suspension, among other things) into sport (firmer) mode. Without noticing it, in 5th and 6th gear you are going near triple digits feeling like you are at 55 mph. You think (if you have never been there before)--"this is what the Autobahn must be like!" Sounds ridiculous--but true.

    The Boxster S is a great car, and does much of what I have described above. But if I had the choice (I did) I would choose the 911 S Cab. Why? It's hard to put my finger on, but I guess it is because the 911 is the distillation of everything Porsche has been trying to do for the past 40 years. They have had 40 years to get this right--and in this car, they do. Engine sound, shifter feel and placement, car balance, gear ratios, power curve...I could go on. Maybe in 2020 we will say the same thing about the Boxster (although right now it is a damn good car).

    There are very few 2005 911 Cabs left in the US to sell (probably less than 200 nationally at this point) and you will have to give up some options to get what you want. I gave up Sport Chrono (a very interesting option, changes the throttle response and the PASM response by pressing a button) to get my S Cab now, as oppsoed to waiting for a 2006. I suspect that a discount of $1-2K is possible, but not a deal breaker for most. The $1-2K off that you are getting for a 2006 build is not a bad deal (but you have to wait for October....).

    I am happy I got an S instead of the base cab at this point (although I would be happy with either). You get 355 hp, PASM, slight lowering of the car, and a few more subtle interior options (aluminum look dials and trim). If you surf the Porsche boards (Rennlist and Rennteam are two that come to mind) you will find that most are choosing the S if they have the choice.

    In terms of options, I am very happy with what I have. I do not have full leather or adjustable sport seats, and to be honest, I do not really need either--I am too involved in the performance of this car while I am driving it to notice. If you want them to feel like you are in a $90K car, go for it.

    Sorry for the long post, and I hope this helps...
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Thanks for the response and congratulations on a truly spectacular car.

    As far as pricing, sounds like you kept the price reasonable by avoiding extra options. The ones I've seen have MSRP's in the $100k+ range. Do you think any/much of a discount would be possible on one of the few 2005 models out there? (If not, I'd just as soon order a 2006 to my exact specs and have a one year newer model).

    Thanks again for your driving impressions - sounds like you have a car you will enjoy for many years to come.
  • s4to911s4to911 Posts: 12
    Actually, this is what happened.

    As my name (s4to911) implies, I have owned a 2001 Audi S4 for five years. I went to my local Audi/Porsche dealer about six weeks ago looking at some 2005 S4 Cabs (I wanted a convertible) and there was a Midnight Blue/Sand Beige 2005 911 S Cab on the lot (with navigation, Bose, heated seats, power seats, full leather, Sport Chrono, 19 inch Carrera Classic wheels, sticker about $99K, dealer willing to discount a couple of thousand K) that someone had ordered but did not want.

    I drove it and loved it. It took a few days to convince my wife to spend the extra $$ (about $40K more than an S4 Cab). In this time, the car was sold to someone else (I should have put a deposit down).

    Searching the internet, I found a minimally optioned S Cab in Midnight Blue/Sand Beige (with Nav, Bose, heated seats, 19 inch Carrera Classic wheels) at a dealer about 250 miles away. I flew out three days later, bought the car, and drove it home. I paid sticker (about $95K) since in the two weeks after the car was delivered to this dealer, there were four offers (at very close to list) until mine. This car was an "extra" allocation offered to this dealer and was optioned by the factory.

    I thought about buying a 2006 to take delivery in mid-September (the original dealer felt bad about my losing the first car, and offered me an allocation that had come up).

    Now that I have the car, in thinking about which options I really wanted, versus which that I could take or leave are:

    (1) Really wanted: 19 inch Classic wheels (look the best in my opinion), heated seats, nav, Bose upgrade;

    (2) Wanted but wanted the car more for this summer, so hoping for a retrofit someday: Sport Chrono;

    (3) Nice to have but I could live without: full leather, power seats.

    I think if you look hard you could find a discount on a 2005 to about $94-97K, depending on the color and the options. There still are some left, at dealers generally in the middle of the US.

    If you are willing to wait until October, get the 2006 and option it the way you want. There is a 2.8% increase in MSRP for 2006, but I bet you could option a decent car for about $95-96K. There are lots of comments on the various Porsche boards considering the many options, but I think in the end (like anything) most of the options are personal preference. Even the base car is pretty amazing.

    Hope this helps, and good luck.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I bought my 2005 911 S Cab about one month ago (Midnight Blue/Sand...

    I've seen this combination up close, stunning imo. The best looking color combo on the new 911 to my eyes.


    I can't wait to see what you decide....its a wonder you've held out this long with such a seductive car as the 911.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 70,574
    $55K vs. $95K?

    I can live with a cheap looking dash.. The Boxster, by most accounts is a better handling car than the 911 (definitely better balanced)..

    Just my nickel (inflation, you know)


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  • s4to911s4to911 Posts: 12
    To each his both, and see if it is worth it
  • dedav8tr1dedav8tr1 Posts: 1
    I'm an airline pilot looking to get out of aviation--looking into starting a business to rent out or create a "time share" in a Porsche, so as to spread out the true costs of ownership. Anyone that might have some input on this idea good/bad would be greatly appreciated. (especially in reference to wear and tear on a 997 Porsche 911). Thanks.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Interesting - I know someone who also considered this business idea. He was a former executive in the high end resort condo time sharing business (Ritz Carlton), so he had somewhat relevent business experience. He even did some market research (phone survey and direct mail) as part of his due diligence.

    The conclusion he came to was that "time sharing" exotic sports cars would probably not make good business sense. The business model he was looking at was dividing the ownership up between 6+/- owners, where you would each get the car 1 month "in season" and 1 month "off season". Trading time slots and/or cars would be facilitated through a point system similar to resort time share. Cars proposed ranged from a Porsche 911 to a Ferrari 360, the time share company would tack on a 15% premium to the dealer price, plus an annual fee, as their revenue source for running the operation It's been awhile, but the issues as best I recall were:

    A $15,000 to $35,000 investment in a "share" was still considered substantial investment in a depreciating asset, with a 5-7+/- year life. Most prospective purchasers that could afford a 1/6 interest could probably afford to buy the car outright themselves and would prefer to own it year round without it used (and abused) by others. Compare this to resort condo timeshaing where you can get a week in a high end resort for $20k-$30k and, assuming you go with a reputable manager, have it for decades and be able to sell it for at or above what you paid for it.

    The depreciation and maintenance costs would be significantly accelerated by the continued use of the vehicles. Most higher end sports cars and exotics are not designed to be driven 20,000+ miles per year. In the event of significant repairs, fingers would be pointed as to which driver was responsible.

    For sports cars, there is often as much prestige in owning the vehicle as there is in driving it. That prestige factor is significantly reduced or eliminated by the time share concept. So the value needs to be derived from driving the car like you stole it for the two months you have it. Again, not good for repairs, maintenance or depreciation.

    Bottom line, my associate concluded that time sharing sports cars did not have nearly the perceived appeal or benefits of time sharing a high end vacation condo. He punted the idea and is back to making millions in real estate.

    Good luck whatever you decide.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 70,574
    I could have told you all that without doing a study...

    Hmm.. yeah... pretty obnoxious.. Sorry.. ;)

    It is sort of like showing up at the class reunion in a new Porsche, then having to admit you rented it..



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  • 96redlt496redlt4 Posts: 13
    Posting message for those whose advice helped me. Finally took delivery of above vehicle which I ordered in Feb. It was 1 mth late but worth the wait. Truly an awesome car so far. Got for 1K under sticker. Would strongly recomm 'S' and sport chrono. Bose is nice, but who listens to the stereo when the engine sounds are so intoxicating.
  • nattybnattyb Posts: 7
    Man, that's a beautiful story.
    I'm really hoping you (or others) can help me with a major quandry.

    I'm totally convinced on the Porsche 911. Test drove it -- blew me away. Found a beautiful Carmon Red Metallic 2005 Carrera S at a local dealer. Options are fine. (has the sports package and chrono.) dealer will take $4k - $5k off.

    Key issues:">
    1. I have a VW GTI and am looking at a Carrera S.
    2. I live in NJ.
    3. I have a 5 year old and one on the way.

    1. Is it ridiculous to think that I can use my Porsche to carry one or more of my kids around? My wife has an SUV and does most of the child carrying, but I know I'll be drafted into service from time to time.
    2. In NJ, I'm assuming a convertible is probably driveable 2 or 3 months out of the year. And I'm also assuming that when there's snow or ice, i'm SOL in the 911. Any feedback here?
    3. Given 1 and 2, I'm thinking that my options are to: a) buy a Carrera 4S for the AWD and therefore be able to drive the 911 in somewhat more ugly weather; b) get an inexpensive third car for when it's snowing, or i have to drive the kids, or leave the car at the airport (like a Honda Accord or Infiniti G35).<img src=" :confuse:

    Please advise! I'm DYING to get my hands on a 911, but I've got to address these issues before I can make the final purchase.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    For our third car, I have been debating between a 2-passenger Boxster S and a 2+2 911 Cabriolet (Base or S). Here are my thoughts relative to your questions:

    1. I took my wife and kids (girls 7 &10) to do a test fit in the 911 last week. They all fit fine. I'm 5'7" and my wife is 5'1" so we could easily position the front seats to give them enough leg room in the back. However, my 10 year old complained that the rear seat back is uncofortable - given that it is virtually straight up and down. The coupe offers a more reclined rear seat, but less head room (infinitely less than the cabriolet with the top down!) My conclusion - the 911 cabrio would work fine for our kids for short trips. However, if you think you'll ever get a car seat in the back of a 911 for your upcoming arrival, forget it.

    2. In DC I drove my last convertible - a Honda S2000 - with the top down at least once or twice a month every month of the year. I find driving a convertible at 50 degrees more comfortable than driving one at 85. I think your estimate of the 911 Cabrio only being drivable 2-3 months is excessively conservative. Realistically, I think it is very usable 6+ months a year. On the snow and ice front, that's another story. Unless you plan on getting a full set of snow tires and wheels, the 4S alone won't be much help. It is really geared towards dry performance, not turning the 911 into a Cayenne. The standard tires - 295/30 series rears on the 911 S - are completely incapable of handling snow. And even with snow tires, do you want to drive a low slung $90k+ sports car through the New Jersey winter slush?

    FWIW, I still haven't decided between the 911 and Boxster S, but am leaning pretty strongly to the 911 for its "practical" ability to ferry the kids around town. Good luck with your decision.
  • aufwegoaufwego Posts: 1
    I have a 2003 Porsche 911 C4S with only 8,000 miles and I recently had to replace the clutch. According to the dealer it was cooked. They didn't seem surprised and said the life of the clutch depends on how the car is driven. After getting the clutch replaced at a cost of $3,000 I asked to take a test drive with the service manager. I wanted him to observe my driving to see if I was doing anything wrong. The only suggestions he had was that I downshifted too often and I should put the car in neutral at stoplights instead of only putting the clutch in. I always thought downshifting was the preferred way to slow down. Putting the car in neutral at every light is a nuisance. I hate to have to baby the clutch. Any observations or suggestions? I have driven stick shift cars for years with no problems.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Downshifting may be the preferred way to slow down for replacement clutch manufacturers, but I would recommend you use the less costly brakes in everyday driving. I also tend to throw the car in neutral at stoplights or long waits, mostly for my comfort. However, I would not have thought this helps clutch life unless you are "cheating" and don't have the clutch fully depressed the entire time. Another sure fire way to burn through a clutch is to use it to maintain position on a hill. On severe slopes, I use the handbrake to hold my position when starting from a stop.

    All of these items aside, I would have thought a 911 clutch would last far more than 8,000 miles unless you were really doing something severely wrong. I've been driving sticks for 30 years and only had two clutch replacements, both at over 100,000 miles and both prior to 1990. My semi-retired 1995 Maxima may finally be needing a new one at 11 years and 154,000 miles, due more to inactivity over the past year than anything else. And the cost from the Nissan dealer is $450, parts and labor.

    Did you buy the 911 brand new, with minimal delivery miles (under 10) on the odometer? I got into a dispute wiith one Porsche dealership that claimed that every car they sell has been test driven at least a few times. I've seen (and smelled) some horrific test drives by idiots that didn't know how to drive a stick. Fortunately, I have numerous dealerships to chose from, the majority of whom respect my position of not wanting a car that has been test driven to the tune of 80-100+ miles. ,
  • s4to911s4to911 Posts: 12
    My opinions about your issues:

    (1) You can carry around small kids in your 911 Cab or Coupe. I have a 7, 5, and 3 year old, and all fit fine in my S Cab in the back. The 5 and 7 year olds have Britax Starriser boosters (they fit perfectly) and the 3 year old has a Century five point forward facing car seat (also fits fine). For a newborn, my guess is that you can put in the infant carrier car seat without the car base, using only the attachments for the lap belt. Once the kid grows out of that, and until he/she can get into a forward facing seat (probably from about 7-8 months to about 18-20 months), there are rear facing seats that will fit (the Porsche 997 boards at Rennlist and Rennteam are full of suggestions). Porsche makes an airbag deactiavtion switch for the passenger seat front airbag (retrofittable) so a car seat can go in the front, but my wife says no way. My kids love the car, and argue with each other about who gets to go with daddy. Controlling this behavior is another problem entirely.

    (2) I live in Pittsburgh (like NJ weather but with lots of hills in addition). I plan on driving the car from March to November. The car is extremely stable (despite the rear engine) and I suspect that the major issue is the summer tires..if you replaced them with winter tires I bet the car would be fine. However, with the low ground clearance and snow, salt, mud, etc I decided to keep my 2001 S4 for a winter car. I was only going to get about $17,500 for it in trade (which is only a little bit more than difference between a C2 and C4 in price).

    (3) Do you have room for a third car in your driveway/garage? How much can you get for your GTI in trade? If you can't get more than 15K and have room, it may make sense to keep the GTI as a third car, and get the C2.

    Good luck
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    May I ask where you got your 911 S Cab and your experience? I live in the DC area but am considering buying in Pennsylvania, since we own a second home in Erie.
  • s4to911s4to911 Posts: 12
    I was going to buy it at Sewickley Car Store (in Sewickley, and a 10-15 minute cab ride from the airport if you are flying in), but they sold the one that became available before I could buy it. They have been excellent (I have my Audi serviced there, and I will have my 911 serviced there).

    I ended up buying from Lancaster Autohaus in Lancaster (which is about 90-120 minutes from the DC area)--I found the car on their website. They are about 4.5 hours from Pittsburgh. They were fine, and the process was very easy.
  • pabs1pabs1 Posts: 15
    I am waiting for the ship to arrive on this shores to take delivery of my new 991S coupe, which I ordered back in april, i did get it with tiptronic since I live in LA and there is no way in hell I am getting stuck in traffic and have to shift constantly...
    I am getting all kinds of options so it should be quite an awsome car. To all out there who have one , any tricks or ways of driving that I should know to enjoy the experience fully..

    thanks to all.
  • Congratulations on your purchase, but I must say that I hope for your sake the 997 Tiptronic is a lot better than the one I test drove in a 2005 Boxster S last week. I have driven many high performance cars with various versions of automatics and SMG transmissions (E55, 545i, Ferrari 360 F1, etc.). But the difference between the Porsche Boxster S in a 6-speed manual and the tiptronic was enormous. The 6 speed was extremely impressive and the engine responsive at all speeds and rpms. On the Tiptronic, the noticable hesitation in shifts using the steering wheel buttons was so frustrating and distracting that I could not drive the car hard enough to test the PASM and sport chrono options that the test car had.

    In any event, I've all but decided to go for a 2006 997 S (with sports chrono) that I can order this week for late October/November delivery. I am leaning towards the coupe, but my wife is lobbying for the cabriolet.

    Regading "tricks" or driving tips, I would definitely recommend a Skip Barber or comparable performance drving school. I took BMW's professional drving course offered as standard when I purchased my M5 in 2003 and it was exceptional. I had not taken a course since I had purchased an M1 in 1979 and had forgotten how helpful the experience was.

    Good luck and enjoy your car - to the extent possible on those LA parking lots ;)
  • pabs1pabs1 Posts: 15
    I read your comment on MP3 , playing.
    What do you mean ?
    You can put the mp3's on a disc or the stereo has a mini card feature ( like the new audi's do ? )

  • s4to911s4to911 Posts: 12
    When you burn a CD ROM of tracks, you can burn them in MP3 format, and get about 120 tracks on an 700 MB disk instead of about 15-18. The head unit reads the MP3 CD (if the car was built after mid-April).
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