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Comments
A big issue is fuel quality, or lack of fuel quality. Domestically, the cetane is too low and there are too many aromatic compounds in domestic fuel that contribute to particulate formation. A higher cetane would help reduce particulate as fuel would ignite more readily and burn more cleanly. Removing aromatic compounds would reduce the energy content of the fuel a little, but would help reduce PM formation and some of the other nasties that are formed when aromatic compounds are burned.
DPF requires little or no maintenance as I understand it. A drive at highway speed for several minutes usually does the job of clearing them.
both cars are complex with complex hardware and software systems.
All future cars worth a darn will also be. Saw something a few months ago about a 1400 page owner's manual for a new car - can't find it now though.
The days of lamenting, "Oh Poor Me, My New Car Is SO Complex!!" are, and should be, over.
Cars of the future will be complex. That is not now a negative and never will be. The car companies will have trained technicians at all times, and most of the independent shops will too.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/12/exxonmobil-to-i.html#more
I was wondering when the oil companies/refineries would get around to increasing the diesel supply.
Honda will likely revisit their cancellation of the diesel engine within a year or two. They are hunkering down now given the current market so I do not expect them to do an immediate about face. We may yet see a few more diesel cars in the future, besides VW. :shades:
The EIA in their AEO 2009 is predicting 38% of the cars will be hybrids and diesel sales will be 2 million by 2030. Time will tell.....
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/12/new-us-eia-ener.html#more
6.383 M to 5.13 M diesel cars. LOADS of extra D2 fuel.
ALL is a big word to describe future cars. My main interest in an EV would be the simplicity of a car with a battery, motor and charger. Direct drive NO transmission or $11,000 PSD device. Maybe an electric heat exchanger that cools in the summer and heats in the winter. I could live in So CA without either. The biggest plus would be getting rid of dozens of worthless sensors. Many that are part of the EPA emissions requirement on all fossil fuel engines. They are the problem with all new cars IMO. Many people get tired of taking their cars in for the dealer to reset some POC computer that turns on a light on the dash saying your tires are flat when it was just the Toyota dealer being too lazy to fill the spare with the same pressure as the other four tires.
So I have a slight optimism that we will get back to keeping it simple sometime in the future. It will keep cars on the road longer and be environmentally better all around.
In the mean time I want a DIESEL SUV that will get me close to 30 MPG on the highway. With a sense of having enough steel around me as protection from a crazed eco weinie in a hybrid that has lost control and crashes into me.
That SUV already exists and I have one. It is the Jeep Liberty CRD that Daimler-Chrysler sold in 2005 and 2006. When driven judiciously, 30+ MPG on the road is not uncommon. I also understand that the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the V-6 Daimler diesel will get close to 30 MPG.
I suspect that the extra diesel fuel might even be sold to truckers, not just TDI owners. :surprise:
http://www.vw.com/vwhype/carbonneutral/en/us/
I now wonder what the mpg figures would be if I got/stayed on the Chevron load (2.39 per rather than the off brand 2.33 per, Chevron claims 50 cetane vs 40-43 for the so called "house brand")
Tick Tock
RUG - $1.759
PUG - $1.999
Diesel - $2.899
RUG 1.559
Diesel 2.439
All prices are cash.
what is 33,541 (US market diesel passenger cars) / 250,400,000 (US registered vehicles in 2004) ? :confuse:
link title
.0001339 % !?
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... Do I have a solution ? Well, several companies are starting to offer retro-fit exchange DPF's. These don't require the individual vehicle to have the proper burn/clean mode. Just unfasten a few stainless steel band clamps (after the red light comes on on the dash), drop the DPF at a dealer and pick up your clean filter. These have been cleaned under a much better controlled procedure in a designed facility.
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... Beyond that I still have to wonder if we had Aveos, Neon, Foci, Jetta, Camry, Accord size vehicles getting seventy MPG with no DPF and no EGR that had say 90 percent less particulate and seventy percent less NOx than 1990 vehicles with much less carbon output than anything today, brought about about by very sophisticated fuel injection, would we not be better off ???
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... I want clean air but the CARB regs today are not for internal combustion engines. My opinion is that it is only possible with a major battery breakthrough and solar/wind recharging.
here is the eia.gov comic book version (aka, keep the dummies in RUG to PUG)
link title
Some would say that jacking up the U.S. (& Canadian) demand for diesel is a bad thing because there's already plenty of demand for diesel (plus fuel oil & jet A) in the trucking, railroad, marine and airline industries -- gasoline is a waste product from producing the fuel that runs commerce. You can only tweak the percentages of gasoline vs. diesel/kerosine/jet A so much in the refining process. It could be that "Big Oil" isn't interested in increasing demand for practical clean diesel cars in North America.
Oh what a tangled web we weave. . .
In any event, I'd be driving an A3 or BMW with a 1.9 or 2.0 litre diesel today if I could.
Certainly looks like it to me.
I talked to my nephew yesterday at our annual family get together. Last Summer he was in bad shape as his biggest customer filed for bankruptcy under the load of $5 diesel. Now his business is booming again. He has several full time heavy diesel mechanics working in his shop. Most trucking companies are spending money to keep the old trucks running as long as possible. They are not optimistic about the upcoming regulations. The only chance they have at survival is the fact that most drivers are still Union. They are busy lobbying CA State legislators to pressure CARB on upcoming regulations. According to my nephew the regs are totally unrealistic and will send most of the trucking companies into bankruptcy.
He is quite knowledgeable on diesel emissions and says the claims by CARB are based on flawed data. He claims there is no legitimate case of death from diesel emissions. The data is gathered so haphazardly that it is impossible to pin point where the problem lies. He claims we still get a lot of very dirty diesel in spite of the ULSD mandate. So they can put all the expensive emissions devices on a truck and still not get rid of the soot that you see coming from truck exhaust.
Add to that all the trucks coming up from Mexico have very little regulation and they can burn the dirtiest of diesel fuel.
For those that have experienced the smog in San Bernardino. Ever wonder where it comes from. Two big sources. There is a natural valley that carries the pollution from San Pedro/Long Beach harbor right up to the mountains. San Bernardino is a railroad hub with all those locomotives burning the nastiest diesel you can imagine.
Instead of shutting down the shipping and rail industry CARB outlaws selling a diesel Beetle in the state. One equipped with the latest in catalytic converters. A vehicle that uses about half the fossil fuel of a gas Beetle. It also produces about half the CO2.
Is there some reason I should not be anti government regulation?
My other take is the one reason the diesel beetle is from banned to limited is because it precisely does what the CARB & EPA says it should do. They really do not want the better results, they just want a Hollywood type illusionary passion play: opiate the masses principle.
So in a pervese way the realities metric out to: 29 mpg is better than 50 mpg. Higher C02 emissions is BETTER than lower C02 emissions. From ZERO to 15 ppm sulfur D2 fuel is worse than RUG to PUG @ 30 ppm. We want it sleezy, at much higher cost, taxation, consumption and emissions !!! Don't forget the more global realities, higher year over year consumption,MORE dependence on foreign oil, especially those hostile to the USA
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... Next major embarrassment for CARB (after a few hundred million down the drain) the UREA systems will be obsolete before the last truckstop has them installed. That is if Homeland Security does not wake-up first and STOP all those potential point of purchase locations for ammonia. BTW, there is no law that says these truckstops have to sell UREA. Pilot and TA say they will, Flying J went Chapter 11 yesterday.
Sad.
When I drove, Bingo, Husky & Union 76 were my stops of choice, depending on fuel pricing, convenience &/or food/lodging. They're all gone now, but Flying J filled in for a few of my favorites.
As to diesel fuel, especially the domestic stuff, it is rotten swill. It is dirty and the cetane rating is barely 42 or 43. I am changing the fuel filter on my Jeep Liberty CRD every 10K to 12K miles instead of the called for 24K miles. The filter comes out black, coal black after 10 to 12K miles. I must add additives and cetane improver to make sure my CRD will start in the colder weather and run properly.
As to any form of D2, EPA decided to convert all forms of D2 usage over in steps instead of all at once. That means the trains can still use high sulfur garbage. Look at home #2 heating oil at 5000 ppm of sulfur. ULSD for home heating oil will not be available for another few years. Tell me this is not nuts. I use oil to heat my home and the sulfur laden ash in the heat ex changer really makes a mess. And the Mexican fuel and some of the U.S. drivers who use it, all delightful.
As to the issue of PM (particulate matter) found in diesel exhaust, there are some nasty compounds found in PM called PAH, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. PAH are carcinogenic and caused by the incomplete combustion of aromatic compounds found on fossil fuel. Removal of aromatic compounds in diesel fuel will reduce the amount of PAH and also reduce the amount of PM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon#Occurrence_and_poll- ution
It is no secret that the oil companies have preferred to sell gasoline to the masses for over 100 years. Diesel is the premier product produced from oil. It provides all our major transportation and freight hauling needs. Gas is still the nasty by product. It should be obvious that we are running a surplus of gas with the big price difference. That is unfortunate for the few discriminating drivers such as yourself that are using diesel. I am surprised you do not have a high grade of ULSD available. What state are you in? I was very happy with BP/ARCO ULSD in my two diesel vehicles. I do anticipate owning another diesel in the next year.
kcram - Pickups Host
CNG.
My cousin's family has such a vehicle. It is cleaner than diesel, cheaper per mile, requires no fuel filters or additives or other idiocy, thumbs its nose at CARB, and we can make it or similar compounds artificially if the massive amounts that we have in the U.S. are ever exhausted. No corn gets taken from our markets, no toxic metals are required for energy storage, and no exotic components, either.
Oh - and the car, a CNG Civic, runs, stops, and starts exactly like a normal one. If we converted our gasoline vehicles over to CNG, we would pretty much solve the entire problem in one step. If you really want to get silly, you can always make a CNG hybrid, but the stuff burns so clean as it is, that it really seems pointless.
There. I just saved Obama a few billion dollars.
I personally think the long term answer will be diesel burning fuel made from algae. One process already demonstrated that can produce 35k+ gallons per year on an acre of desert. Corn ethanol is about 18 gallons per acre. Palm diesel is about 600 gallons per acre.
Your ALGAE example is an absolute slam dunk no brainer !!! This is probably why it has literally been ignored and actually vilified. Algae is literally one of the most abundant photosynthesis mechanism on the planet. There is almost no place that it will not grow !! One component of its life cycle (PLEASE PEOPLE GO BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL BIOLOGY or a gate program middle school biology class) IS C02 !!!!!! In addition to producing FOOD, ALGAE produces OXYGEN !!! It can also be adapted to work in sewer processing plants. So who ever sees an end to that process and service?
Also effective immediately, if the eco [non-permissible content removed] believes their own rhetoric, it should be R & D'd and adapted to ongoing "waste" producing processes '. So again, who ever sees an end to certain processes and services, i.e., food production.
Enforcement is literally idiotic: in terms of the everyday practicality.
President Obama would put the kibosh on it toot sweet ! Keep in mind how many UNION folks it would idle if the fed were to limit ship entry/exit using bunker fuel (upwards of 5,000 ppm sulfur) ! The classic democratic manufacturing states have systematically(over generations) gotten rid of domestic manufacturing capability knowing that foreign produced goods would use these vehicles and logistics systems.
Are you talking about my mental health or where I live?
I live in the Peoples Republic of Maryland.
BP began marketing the cleaner burning fuel in December of 1999 and has been selling it through local and regional resellers and distributors. BP currently supplies about 20 % of the state's 220,000 barrel per day diesel demand, according to California Energy Commission statistics.
This CARB file shows BP ECD-1 testing at Cetane 51.3
http://www.arb.ca.gov/diesel/idrac/presentations/Jun01/ECD.pdf
****
Obviously the existing infrastructure has to be expanded. But every single municipality that uses CNG vehicles is required by law to sell the CNG to the public. So there almost always *is* a filling station in every major city. Los Angeles has several dozen. the Civic in question comes with a GPS pre-programmed with every station in the U.S. as well.
http://www.cngprices.com/
That's a lot of stations, actually. It's small but is viable and isn't any more difficult to implement than propane, which is bought and sold darn near everywhere.
Also, on range, CNG is a quick 5-6 minute fill at a station and you're good for 200-250 miles! At whatever speed a normal Civic will go. That's not even close to what you get with electrics. And there are never EVER any batteries to replace. And, this is basically a standard Civic that has been retrofitted. If the car was purpose-built, it could easily have a larger or second tank without any compromises. And a 400-500 mile range. The CNG Civic is a kludge and it still pummels most hybrids and electrics.
Lastly, you can get a filling device in your own garage which essentially gives you $1 a "gallon"(equivalent) prices. It's more expensive than electric, but loads less than diesel or gas.
PS
Take Interstate 10 across from AZ and you will find stretches as far as 360 miles between stations with prices as high today as $3.67 per gallon equivalent.
So with a yearly sales of less than 2,000 CNG Civic's, how long would one suppose it would take to become 1,2,3,4,5% of the 254.1 M passenger vehicle fleet? Keep in mind that with the 1,000 on up installation of home fueling obviously gives a Civic (or any other for that matter) an almost no brainer advantage. While I tip my hat to Honda for doing alternative fuels such as diesel, CNG, if diesels are considered a niche market then CNG will probably stay less than that. So for example how many (cng) gas company vehicles actually run on CNG?
CARB and the EPA are both concerned that the passenger diesel car population will have a "mauthusian growth rate" (graphic: multilpy like rabbits and NYC mice and rats)
Downstream, I have read that CNG is very dilutive of engine oil. So for example I run 20,000 mile OCI's gasser) with 10,000 mile OEM recommended. I have read in passing CNG folks do not go much over 5,000 miles OCI.
CNG is worlds cheaper to implement on a large scale compared to the other options. And it doesn't effect corn prices, either.
http://www.qp.com.qa/qp.nsf/web/bc_new_projects_gtl