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It also has this funny hump on the driver's side of the transmission tunnel. I guess this is where the driveshaft for the front axle comes out and it takes away most of your right leg room.
The manual C class with the V6 engine is an absolute rocket, btw. Easily 3 series competition.
Tell me about it .. my L300 weighs in at just under 3200 pounds, while its replacement (Aura) is 3600-3700 pounds.
One of the metrics I look at with new cars is pounds per HP .. even as HP increases, so does the weight of many new models, so the value of the calculation stays about the same.
But, aren't manual transmissions lighter, generally, than their corresponding automatic brethren?
VW Jetta and Rabbit also have 5 cylinder engines and manual transmission available.
I've never seen a NA-spec E-class with a manual, unless you count something like a 280E from 1978.
Huh?? Where did THAT come from?? As far as I understood, Chrysler used Benz trannies, not the other way around. Chrysler didn't know how to make anything other than a 4-speed with the reliability of wet paper until benz gift wrapped their 5-speed for them to put in SOME of their cars.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Element Accord, Civic, Fit
Too many to list here, that's for sure.
Everything from a Chevy Aveo to a Saab 9-3 comes with a 4-cylinder. Some are more fun to drive than others.
Heck, if the 6-cyl list is short, what does the 8-cyl + stick list look like?
Pickup trucks and the Corvette? Oh, maybe the Audi S4 and other similar vehicles.
Will the new Pontiac G8 come with a 6-speed stick?
That would be the Elantra.
Don't forget Kia and Suzuki.
How 'bout the 2.0T models from Audi/VW, such as the A3, A4, Jetta, GTI, Eos, Passat...
Read back one more post...
yup!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
***
True, but Mercedes puts absolute rubbish in their lower-end cars in Europe as 80%+ of all Mercedes sold in Europe are manuals. Nearly every last automatic except for the S class models is rental car fodder and it's a worthless transmission. So it's barely an improvement because well, Mercedes hates automatics as a rule. It's a German thing I think
After all the gas scares of the 70's the car makers went on a fanatical weight reduction binge to increase gas mileage. Recently, if what I read is true they have been going to much stiffer bodies to reduce flex and help handling. That, coupled with extra safety equipment like extra airbags has boosted average car weight.
"...One of the metrics I look at ...is pounds per HP..."
There was an article in Car and Driver a while back where they compared the HP/pound ratios of the fastest front drive cars. Other than the data charts, the article just moaned and groaned about how much wheel spin they all had.
That makes me think. What part does drive wheels play in the decision to choose manual over auto? If you have a higher power car with front wheel drive does it make any sense to have MT? Can you effectively put that power to the road?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
M/T or A/T, there is absolutely a greater diminishing return when it comes to FWD. My 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed w/ 190 hp was tested at 6.6-6.7 seconds 0-60. The 1995 189 hp 328i was essentially the same. My 258 hp 2004 TL 6-speed is in the 6.1 second range and the 286 hp TL-S is in the 5.8. Faster, yes, but not as much as you would think with 50% more horsepower. By comparison, the 300hp 335i is in the 4.8 second range, which is enormously faster than its 1995 predicessor. What 250+ hp gives you in FWD format is a lot of excitement - as in wheel hop and torque steer that can be very difficult to control if you are trying to accelerate hard. As soon as you pop the clutch, the dynamic weight transfer shifts the weight backwards over the rear wheels and off the pulling front wheels. I have no doubt that an average driver in a 220 hp 328i (not 335i) will beat a good driver in a TL-S 90% of the time, because "launching" a FWD car with 280 hp is a hit or miss proposition.
On the other end of the spectrum is my 355 hp 911S with the engine hanging out over the rear wheels and putting 62% of it's static weight at the rear. It easily outaccelerates the 400hp Corvette to 60 and in one road test, the 500 hp Corvette Z06 and Viper as well. Plus, I could point it straight and take my hand off the steering wheel and it will go straight in acceleration. Doing that in the FWD TL will put me in a hospital or coffin.
I don't think this suggests manual transmissions are not appropriate for powerful FWD sedans. Rather, that past a certain point, additional power in a FWD chassis is peeing in the wind. At some point, dangerously so.
I think that would be dangerous at any speed.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I have the v6m6 Accord and if I am trying to take off fast from a stop round a corner I am glad of the clutch control.
Most domestic pickups
Corvette
G8, when it is released
Ferrari
Are there any BMW's available with a V8 and a stick?
I might consider the 2.0T available on the Audis and VWs.
Yours for only about 60 large.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yours for only about 60 large.
I suspect that is the base price, right?
That's a little out of my price range.
I might, however, hold out for a 1-series. There will be a 128i and a 135i, right?
That's the story. The 135 is on my shopping list, too.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The base price is about $9,000 less. 15-20% better gas mileage for the 535i. Lower insurance costs, based upon my previous quotes on the 530/550.
The 550i may be a tad quicker, but that would be a very small tad, given the extra weight of the 550i 8 cylinder. And the lighter weight 535i would probably handle slightly better. I suspect that BMW is going to have a tough time selling 550i 6-speeds for the performance minded, when the 535i 6-speed has virtually closed the gap from the previous 530i. They will still probably sell 550i's automatics to the stubborn buyers that think a "luxury" sedan requires an 8 cylinder engine, but I'd be hard pressed to spend the extra dough for a 550i 6-speed today on performance. (And I did spend the equivalent of $6k for the "S" label and 30 extra hp on my 911.)
A 535i 6-speed via European Delivery is probably the best manual transmission luxury sport sedan value out there. Albeit it still is a lot of dough.
I'm thinking the 128i would be enough for me .. keep the options to a minimum.
Any word on pricing? Gotta be less than the 3-series, but by how much?
And, are we talking 5-speed or 6-speed?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
More power than a Passat 2.0FSI and it's got AWD to get the power down effectively.
Road & Track had a nice article about manual-trans sport sedans about a year ago and the Legacy lapped the track the quickest of all. It was quicker than a MazdaSpeed6, a BMW, an Audi, and an Infiniti to name a few.
No torque steer at all, either. The front axle has equal length half shafts and 50% of the power goes to the rear axle.
GT comes with 5 speeds, spec.B comes with 6.
Now if Ford would bring a example of their WRC car to the US I could die a happy man and at least test drive, though I might fork out quite a bit for one of my own, a real paddle shifting car.
I fully realize my acceptance of the SMT comes from all of the years I used to ride Motorcycles. There is absolutely no need for H patterns in todays cars other than tradition. Down shifting has never been a problem even when it is done with the tip of your toe. In fact at first they could keep the clutch if we could simply get a OEM SMT or DSG if that is what it would take. The straight pattern would make spirited driving very interesting indeed.
The 08 is a tad shorter but honestly I wonder if they went far enough with the change for the WRC car specifically.
Some domestic pickups. GM dropped the manual on all half-tons, and Ford and Dodge play musical engines with their manual availability.
Don't get me started :P
Thanks, and keep up the interesting discussions!
Find a relative that has an automatic, but can drive stick, and switch with them.
I had a sprained ankle and had to commute by subway for a few days. :sick:
Now I have one of each so I'd be fine.
Probably your pain threshold has some relevance too.
Back when I worked for UPS I tripped on the shop floor and put the corner of a metal desk through my right hand.
It was a miracle the corner missed all my tendons and bones so I just ended up with a big hole in my hand. I couldn't move my hand much without pulling out the stitches, I had little strength in my hand and every time I tried to grip something my hand hurt like a @#$%&@*.
I just shifted with my left hand for a few weeks till I had the stitches taken out.
The Tercel's clutch was very light. Starting out, I'd put it in first or reverse clutching with my right leg and idle at first, using the hand brake if needed.
Once I got going, I'd just match the revs and shift up and down without the clutch. If you watch the lights you can usually creep along in 2nd and not have to wait at too many reds and avoid starting off in first gear as much as possible.
If you really need to get somewhere, rent or borrow an automatic. Even then you'll get some looks when you climb out of the driver's seat and reach for your crutches.