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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,676
    Oh, really?! I had no idea. I am so stuck on the fact that the truck is nearly 100% original that I rarely make serious consideration of modifications. I will have to look into that this summer.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Yeah, it's not uncommon for the 4x4 crew, so they can have super-short crawler setups and still be able to drive it back home. :) They are also quite expensive. :(

    http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/rangeroverdrive.htm
    http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/dualrangeoverdrive.htm
    http://www.drivetrain.com/new_overdrive/GM4speedmanal/overdrivegm4spdmanual.html-
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,676
    Whoa! $2600. Naw. I love the three speeds.... :blush:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • razorasdfrazorasdf Member Posts: 61
    Ha you think you got problems. Try alternating between two cars, one with reverse to the lower right and the other with it to the upper left. Then add to the mix that one has a 6th gear where the 5-speed's reverse is! Talk about dangerous possibilities

    Actually, that's exactly what I had to go through. My tC is a 5 speed with reverse where 6th is on the GTI. The tremendous difference in clutch and shifter feel has reminded me about what I'm driving thus far. I'm not used to using 6th gear, though, but by the time I break the car in I should nail the best shift points for my style of driving.

    Now, my brother going to test drive the Infiniti G35 6-speed coupe - THAT was funny. He tried to make a U-turn on a then-empty street, blocked both lanes, and couldn't figure out how to engage reverse. Even though he drove manuals for years, he'd never driven a 6 speed. Ended up causing a minor traffic jam that spanned about a quarter mile for a minute while he figured it out. That memory alone is how I'm able to reverse this GTI. :P

    So far I've driven the car about 60 miles or so after picking it up today, and will drive about 40-60 more by the time I get home from work tonight. The turbo is such a thrill! Rode in a DSG-equipped Fahrenheit GTI up to the dealership with a Revo, stage 2. All I can say is, hot damn! :shades:
  • razorasdfrazorasdf Member Posts: 61
    That's what I fear. I see/interact with the cops in my neighborhood all the time (when they were just hanging out for coffee, not for anything I did wrong :P) and they recognized my tC. I hope the same will happen with the GTI, and I won't have to deal with being clocked going 33 in a 30 zone. Not that I speed too often, since I'm deathly afraid of speeding tickets and/or accidents and the resulting points and insurance hike.

    Problem is, 80-90mph in the GTI feels smoother than 50mph in the tC, so it's hard to keep the right foot restrained. And I spend the majority of my hours behind the wheel far away from my neighborhood. Good thing there's an adjustable speed warning on the trip computer, eh? :D
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,676
    Ah, well, at least you are going to have a thrill driving. ;)

    A co-worker's 18-year-old son recently purchased a new, black GTI. It sure is a smooth-looking vehicle.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • razorasdfrazorasdf Member Posts: 61
    Oi. Not even 30 minutes after your post, someone smashed the GTI's passenger side window in the parking lot at work, scratched up the door, and stole some stuff out of the car. Not the great start I was hoping for after only 8 hours of owning the car.

    Now that the police report is filed, time to call insurance so I can have it repaired and pay the $500 deductible. Sigh.

    Oh well, at least the car still runs great, and it should be fixed in a few days. That, and the police officer commented about how he loves the color despite normally not liking red, and we discussed cars and GTIs for a few minutes. That actually managed to cheer me up quite a bit.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Aww dude, I'm sorry to hear about your struggle. If misery loves company, the first trip we took in the Subaru (5 spd stick awd wagon) we got rear ended and had to get a new bumper cover. The car was more than 8hrs old, but didn't even have license plates yet.
    I hope the car gets fixed up to good as new. Pay a lot of attention to the paint matching at the body shop, and make sure it is exactly the way you want before you leave with the vehicle. They ended up having to repaint the bumper a few times before they figured out not to have runs in the paint.
  • 91accord191accord1 Member Posts: 4
    When I'm at work I usually drive a peterbilt with a 10 speed tranny and on the off chance I drive one of three ford dump trucks. no auto pilot allowed for any of them, but when I get off of work I drive a cavalier(automatic, yukky) not only do I almost throw it in neutral every time it rev ves up but I also feel like I'm sitting right on the road and going 60. I want my pickup truck back!
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    I was going to start off this post with an expletive but then I calmed down. :mad:
    That really stinks and the worst part is you'll probably never catch the guy. It seems not only does red attract the cops, it attracts criminals as well. Did the alarm go off? Probably not if none of the doors were open. Makes me think i should get a shock sensor for my GTI. It wouldn't have prevented the window breakage but maybe someone would have seen the perpetrator. Next time don't leave anything in the car to tempt the a*******! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    even if they offered a manual in a midsize SUV

    The Dodge Nitro is technically a mid-sizer and is offered with a 6 speed manual, FWIW.

    I bet dealers stock very few of them, though.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,427
    BMW X3 comes with a manual shift..

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a compact, though, nippononly was looking for a mid-sizer.

    Let's see, who else still does...

    Subaru Forester
    Suzuki Grand Vitara
    Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute
    Honda Element
    Hummer H3 - mid-size too
    Hyundai Santa Fe (barely mid-sized)
    Hyundai Tucson/Kia Sportage
    Jeep Liberty
    Jeep Patriot/Compass
    Jeep Wrangler
    Nissan XTerra
    Toyota FJ

    Notably missing is Inifiniti, even the EX does not. The CX7 and RD-X should offer them, but don't.

    Some of those are borderline mid-sizers.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Of all those, I would only consider the H3 and the XTerra to be mid-sized. Unsurprisingly, many of them are offered with a manual in the base model only:

    Subaru Forester – Available across all models
    Suzuki Grand Vitara – Base model only
    Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute – Base model 4-banger only
    Honda Element – Available across all models but the SC
    Hummer H3 – Not available with the V8
    Hyundai Santa Fe - Base model only
    Hyundai Tucson/Kia Sportage - Base FWD model only
    Jeep Liberty - Base model only
    Jeep Patriot/Compass - Available across all models
    Jeep Wrangler - Available across all models
    Nissan XTerra - Available across all models but the SE
    Toyota FJ - Not available with base RWD model

    Also, I wonder how many of them are truly available with a manual?

    -Frank
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    You are correct that many of the vehicles you listed are offered with a manual. Finding one may be a different matter. I have yet to see a dealer with an Escape manual on the lot but I am sure there are some. I do believe I have see an Element manual. Can't get the Cr-v in a manual anymore. I have never seen a Santa Fe manual at least not with the bigger engine and not at a dealer. I have three friends than I used to play in a band with that have FJs, neither are manuals. and the H-3 V-8 only has a Automatic. Not that I can see one with a manual anyway.

    It would be interesting to see how many manuals they sell in a mid sized SUV to see it is is worth while offering them in the first place.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    We had the same thought. I just had that experience looking for a truck. Most of the trucks I had been looking at said they came with a manual or Automatic but when it came down to looking for one you only found manuals in stripped down trucks if you found one at all. However I did find one loaded with a manual, but it had a zillion miles on it. Someone must have liked to travel but I bet they upgraded for a diesel and if they did they ended up with a Automatic. Pure speculation on my part.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    Whatever happened to simply ordering the vehicle with the options that you want? Yes, I know that there is a wait, however you then have exactly what you want, 8+ weeks later. I've done it for about 25 years. The good thing is, then you have what you wanted.... the bad thing is, then you have no one to blame! ;)
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I have never been willing to buy any vehicle I can't test drive first. I know some people that are willing to do that but I am not one of them. I have a few friends that have ordered a vehicle are are perfectly happy but I think over all the Scion line has proved people want to see, feel and touch what they are going to buy first. However with me this last purchase was a Used vehicle so ordering it wasn't an option.

    Now when it comes time to replace the small car I might consider ordering something. But most likely that will not be till they have a small diesel city car at economy car prices, and then mileage will be far more important than transmission.

    But you know there is something interesting about your post. We have several relatives from the Mid West and North East and they all have ordered vehicles before. None of the relatives we have in the West have ever ordered a vehicle not even a Scion.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, and those mid-sizers are sort of big on the outside, yet compact on the inside. The XTerra feels compact, and the Hummer is probably even claustrophobic, due to the small windows.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Whatever happened to simply ordering the vehicle with the options that you want?

    Back in 2000 I tried to order a MT Jeep Cherokee (its last model year) and was told that although the MT was listed as an option, the factory wasn't making any. I did get an email several months later saying they were going to build some manuals the last week of production before they shut the line down but by that time I'd already ordered a MT Forester.

    -Frank
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Same thing happened to a friend of mine when he got his manual F-250 4x4. He was having a hard time finding one, though he finally did, but he had tried to order one and was told that California had their total allotment of manual F-250s for the year. He would have to find one at the dealers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I bet they say that just because they are afraid they will get stuck with it if you walk away from the deal for some reason.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    My dealer had me put down a $1,000 deposit to order a stick - I gladly did so.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a bit risky.

    What if it comes and you absolutely hate the clutch. It's stiff and very grabby, no smooth engagement no matter how hard you try.

    Would you still buy it? Forfeit the big deposit?
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    That temps me beyond belief is the remote start feature my friend has on his Denali. when I was down looking for an upgrade on my sound system the installer said he could add remote start to my Tahoe pretty easily so I will be looking into it. It is options like this that add to why people seem to be moving away from manuals. Most manuals have to be left in gear and a remote start wouldn't be practical.

    Someone posted earlier that people that prefer manuals don't always want all the options that everyone else seems to fall for. I used to be that way and didn't trust vehicles with power everything. But over the years I can't see myself without power door locks at least. I might be able to live without power seats but I am not sure about power windows.

    when I bought our ZTS in 2001 the only two options I didn't get were a moon roof, don't like the drips from cold glass in the winter and because we decided on a manual we couldn't get skid correction control, that was only available with a automatic.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    IMO gas isn't expensive enough if people are still buying gas-wasting, carbon producing options like remote start.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    You must live where it never gets cold. Or never gets hot. I used to have to make annual treks for business to Palm Springs In early August. I would have paid you to go start my car and turn on the air before I had to get in the car.

    My friends and I attend a class together on Tuesday nights and last Tuesday was my turn to drive. I am sure whatever gas he wasted when the Denali was started as we pulled into my drive way was saved as we drove to class together. But considering it was about 27 degrees out when we got home I bet he was glad the heater was on when he got in the vehicle.

    But I did read the article against warming up your car and how much fuel it would save if we didn't. Just don't know if I always agree.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    You must live where it never gets cold.

    Au contraire, I've resided in Maine and NH for almost 30 years and I've spent plenty of time in AZ, I don't think of 27F as cold, but then I have butt warmers in my cars. ;)

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Twenty-seven degrees Fahrenheit above zero? Yeesh, that's a bloody heat wave. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    ...the first had a 6-Speed with three pedals under the dash and the second had a 6-Speed with two pedals and two paddles (wifey has been having left hip probems and is considering an automatic).

    To be sure the DSG is the best Automatic transmission I've ever driven, however, IMHO, it seriously detracted from the otherwise wonderful driving experience that can be had from that well thought out car.

    Funny thing, there's a possibility that our garage is going to be housing two A3s in the near future, the only question is, how many pedals and how many paddles. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    However with me this last purchase was a Used vehicle so ordering it wasn't an option.

    The salesperson that sold me the Contour complained a couple of times about my pickiness, because I was so specific. He said you can't custom order used cars. I said I was patient. I wanted a '96 SE MTX(the '95s were a first year model and I didn't trust Ford with that at the time, and rightfully so...although the Fusion launch went great so maybe not an issue any more...I digress) and it had to have ABS and I preferred a sunroof car, in black or silver. He was like riiiiight.

    Three weeks later he calls me from the Ford action saying its here, I am driving it back tonight myself so you can come see it this weekend. I get there and its on the platform in the front and it has my name on it. Didn't help so much with the bargaining, but the car was a good deal in the first place.
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Shipo,
    Could you do me a favor and take a look at the 5-series thread? I asked a couple of questions there that aren't suitable here.
    Bristol
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    But I did read the article against warming up your car and how much fuel it would save if we didn't. Just don't know if I always agree.

    I was gonna ask if you had seen those articles, for a car is something like fifty cents and for a larger displacement motor about 2x that.

    I do agree with the sentiments of the original poster though, if people can waste gas by turning their car on and not driving it, its still too cheap.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    On my way... ;-)
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    If it's regularly below zero I could see where using a remote start would be nice to have. I live in Phoenix and yes if you leave your car in the sun in the summer it gets damn hot but there's only a minute or two of discomfort until it becomes tolerable. Of course parking in a garage makes a huge difference both winter and summer :)

    In any case I can't see myself using a remote starter. The sight of an unoccupied car iding away just strikes me as a huge waste of gas.

    -Frank
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I went over to the 5-Series thread and didn't see any posts by you. Can you post a link for me?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Sorry, it was on 'Buying a Used 5-series'. You did reply, I'll pick up with you over there....

    thanks!
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    It's worth the risk - better a stiff and grabby clutch than no clutch at all! ;) Besides, I read reviews and forums like this, and no one hated the clutch. When I actually got the cars, it was all good.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Man you guys a tuff. At the Hotel in Palm Springs most of the underground parking spaces are taken way before I get there. Sometimes I drive home rather than spend the night. So after all day in the sun it is darn hot inside the car. You can't touch the wheel without burning your hand. With leather seats I think you could peel the skin off if you happened to be wearing shorts. But I love gadgets. I love power windows, power seats, power door locks and a multipal CD changer. A remote starter still seems like a good idea to me. I don't have one yet but when I get the CD changer I want I just may think about it. I didn't think I would like heated seats but I do. I admit as a Southern California boy I find 27 cold and 11 even colder and I doubt I would live anywhere that had single or minus numbers. But 115 isn't all that hard to hit between LA and Indio and to me that is reason enough for a remote start.

    But lets face it, most of us are already willing to spend a bit more for gas for the car we want. People make that decission when they get a V-6 rather than a I-4 and they make that decission when they decide to commute with that same V-6 or V-8. I doubt if someone with remote start idles much more than the average commuter does every day on the 405 twice a day. The last time I was out there during rush hour it took me more than and hour and a half to go 20 miles.

    Right now I jump in and take off almost right after I start the car. But I have been known to let the car run till the defogger started working after scraping ice off of the windshield.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I didn't think I would like heated seats but I do. I admit as a Southern California boy I find 27 cold and 11 even colder and I doubt I would live anywhere that had single or minus numbers. But 115 isn't all that hard to hit between LA and Indio and to me that is reason enough for a remote start."

    Having spent a number of years in California (while in college and the Marines), I can honestly say that to me at least, twenty or thirty below zero is far more tolerable (when properly dressed) than anything north of one-hundred degrees above zero.

    A couple of days ago (on a different board) I was being taken to task for not using the oil specified by the Owner's Manual for my current daily driver. The person challenging me was using the conventional 40C and 100C numbers to describe why I should be using 5W-30 in lieu of the synthetic 0W-40 that I prefer. When I informed him that our town has NEVER seen 40C (~104 Fahrenheit) in its entire history, and yet it HAS seen temperatures that were so cold that conventional 5W-30 oil would have solidified, he suddenly yielded. ;)

    FWIW, even though it is a little cooler around here than where you live, I absolutely detest heat-seaters. When I get into my wife's car I make it no more than a quarter of a mile from our driveway before I suddenly find myself scrambling for the "Off" switch. :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    FWIW, even though it is a little cooler around here than where you live, I absolutely detest heat-seaters. When I get into my wife's car I make it no more than a quarter of a mile from our driveway before I suddenly find myself scrambling for the "Off" switch

    Pretty funny... I have the same reaction... they seem like a good idea on a cold day, but I very rapidly get to a point of "Darn, why is it too hot in here?", and off they go!
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Most manuals have to be left in gear and a remote start wouldn't be practical.

    :confuse: No, they don't.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I love seat heaters. A car takes a while to warm up, but the seats are toasty within seconds.

    Especially with leather, I want bun warmers.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    OK, Manuals do not HAVE to be left in gear, however it is usually recommended (or was, when I went to driving school years ago), that you leave the parked car in a gear (I use reverse), and not depend on the emergency brake to hold the car, especially on a grade. It's basically the same thing as saying that automatic transmissions HAVE to be left in "Park" - They don't, however would you leave the car in Neutral?
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    You can't touch the wheel without burning your hand

    Even on 115 degree days I've never had that problem. The key is to park in the shade whenever possible and if you have to park in the sun, park facing away from it. Also, tinted windows and a sun screen for the windshield are must haves.

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In my van the key won't come out unless it's in Park, IIRC.

    I remember some Saabs would not release the key unless they were in Reverse! (manual trans only)
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    saying that automatic transmissions HAVE to be left in "Park" - They don't

    I'm pretty sure you can't take the key out unless its in Park :P

    As for manuals, yes they should be left in gear, especially when parked on an incline but there are many instances where there's no grade and the parking brake is adequate. However, most won't start unless the clutch is depressed so a remote starter would have to bypass that circuit.

    -Frank
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    In my van the key won't come out unless it's in Park, IIRC.

    I remember some Saabs would not release the key unless they were in Reverse! (manual trans only)


    Ateixeira, I was not questioning key removal etc. I agree that the key interlock is there, however the point that I was raising was around the transmission/gear selection.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    It is the same here. I live in the mountains and hardly ever get to park where it is flat. I don't remember ever leaving my manuals out of gear when parked. In fact in my old Prelude the E-brake didn't work for a while and I had no choice. Still remote start on a manual would be risky business I think.

    As far as seat warmers go I just haven't noticed them being all that hot that I notice them after a few miles. My grandfather would have hated them because he felt things like that were just something else to go wrong. He died never having had power windows or air conditioning.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've always parked in gear and with the e-brake. The e-brake alone only locks the rear axle, for instance.

    With AWD or FWD, using both means both axles are holding the car.

    On my Miata (RWD, e-brake on rear axle), I have to chock the front wheels if I lift the rear axle at the rear diff, otherwise the car will just roll of the jack! :surprise:
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