Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    In many stores, all or part is used to write down aging units.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    That to, forgot about the whole aged inventory thing
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    So it is not pure profit to be stuffed into the dealer's pocket. It, like D&H, is used to run a profitable business. There is a difference.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I think you answered your own question.

    I was taught at an early age that a commitment and a handshake meant something. Stick with the deal you struck.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    So it is not pure profit to be stuffed into the dealer's pocket. It, like D&H, is used to run a profitable business. There is a difference.

    Yes there is, very good!

    Hell I saw our light bill the other day, it was $7800 for one month. Its not cheap to run one of those places
  • rworrellrworrell Member Posts: 149
    Thanks, isell--I appreciate the support.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Here is a question for you sales folks. I am in the market for two vehicles in the next six months. Am extremely flexible on time and both will be about $45 to 55K each and cash purchases. I was going to start my shopping in earnest around late summer, but found a rather generous incentive on a possible candidate. Even though this was earlier than I had planned, it wasn’t a big deal to buy now. I made back-to-back appointments to test drive three cars. Unfortunately I did not like the car with the incentive enough to buy it. I was open with the sales folks at the other two dealers about cross shopping at the beginning of the drive an dteh incentive. One sales rep spent 5 minutes during the drive explaining why I should not buy the car with the incentive, which was no big deal. I happened to like the car, but explained to him that I was in no hurry since there was not a large incentive on his vehicle. He offered me his standard halfway between invoice and msrp deal. Since there are about 15 to 20 dealers that are within a 2 hour drive, I told him I could probably get close to invoice or $500 over with an email and phone blitz, but I preferred not to do that. Several online sources would indicate that this is reasonable.

    Since I was in no hurry, and he spent time with me, I offered to be a quick and easy sale for him. I would give him a 90-day or even greater period to work with and he could call me whenever he needed a sale to make his numbers. In return, I would take a $500 over invoice deal and assure him of the sale. The conversation was very polite and cordial. Unfortunately, I never heard from him again.

    Call me foolish, but I feel some loyalty contacting him again as I probably will buy the car. Should I just work with someone else at the dealership? Is the type of deal I proposed something you sales folks would even be interested in? Or am I a destined to have to grind it out to get a reasonable price? I have considered hiring a buying service for a couple hundred bucks to get me quotes for both my vehicles.

    For me the absolute price I pay is not as important as the relative price of a fair deal in the market.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    PAC in my Honda store meant Post Acquisition Cost. I always thought it stood for Profit Added Cost.

    It is supposed to be used for things like writing down aged inventory, lot damage, etc but some stores basically keep the pac and charge the salespeople back for the above items. :surprise:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    The presumption is OTD.. .period.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    a few thoughts on your situation. if you feel comfortable with the salesperson you spoke to, i would go back to him if you go to his store. he may not have responded or called back because he may no longer be there - at which point you work with someone else.

    i am not sure what type of car you are looking at, so its hard to say whether your offer is legit or not. assuming based on the price range that you are looking at the luxury vehicle segment - they may not want to discount their car to $500 over invoice. What kind of car(s) are you looking at?

    as far as hiring a buying service - i don't think they will save you so much more money that their service is worth it. you can negotiate a great price of a car if you know the market, are polite to the salesperson, and firm but serious in your offer.

    like i said, just some thoughts...

    -thene :)
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    The car with the generous incentive is the Acura RL. I was comparing it to an Infiniti M and Lexus GS. Since I never heard back from the Lexus dealer, I went during lunch to check out an A6. I drove into the MB dealer by mistake and figured what the heck. I got a sales guy 3 days on the job who used to sell Hondas. Product knowledge was pretty poor on features and European Delivery. I happened to like to MB and tried to follow-up three times with questions and how to order. Turns out there are no 07s E350 sports with leather seats and P2 packages left in my area. I had to find this out by calling another dealer.

    Anyways the vehicle I'm looking at now is the GS. The website autosbargain says 500 below invoice and club lexus would indicate invoice or 500 over is very doable. If he had called me back and said 750 over, I probably would have said yes to save some time. :confuse:
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,481
    You gave dealer #3 a chance and they blew it. I'm with isell; stick with your current deal.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 269,236
    I agree.. You'll be getting almost $1500 off of an '08, right at the beginning of the model year... That might not be the greatest deal ever, but it is very good.

    I wouldn't screw around with it for an extra $100-$200 that might not be there, anyway.

    regards,
    kyfdx
    (not the host here)

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    Edmunds Moderator

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    We don't use it to write down aged units. Our pack is two or three times the packs in LRguys store and I bet our overhead is similar.

    We are both small to midsized stores in rural to semi-rural areas.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    The presumption is OTD.. .period.

    Wrong. Go back and read his original post. Granted he just mentions so much over invoice and that the OTD number is good to know, it's never mentioned.....period.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    The buying service got me a deal that I couldn't have gotten on my own, and XXXXXX is willing to get the car for me at a fixed price with no deposit required. I feel that I've given them my word on the deal.

    Without something in writing and a deposit what assurance do you have that it is a real deal. I would want it in writing as an OTD price and would therefore be willing to make a deposit of not more than what ever you feel you can afford to lose but definitely not more than $500.

    Getting it in writing (also signed by the sales manager) at least gives you something in case the salesman is no longer there (they move around a lot in this biz) when the car arrives and if he is there you don't have to say "you said".

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    would want it in writing as an OTD price and would therefore be willing to make a deposit of not more than what ever you feel you can afford to lose but definitely not more than $500.

    We do a buyer's order that spells out the entire transaction price(selling price, trade allowence and payoff, state title fees, taxes, and deposit. Then we collect a $1000 non refundable deposit. We also do a state disclosure form to protect both buyer and seller.
  • rworrellrworrell Member Posts: 149
    Good points, all. Clarifications:

    1) The price is $900 over invoice + TTL + $50 dealer fee (don't like that, but not too much). There's no trade, so that removes another piece of the equation.

    2) The deal is by the sales manager, who's been there forever, so no worries about the salesman being gone. Plus, the buying service only uses 1 dealer per brand in the area, so they have a vested interest in making the deal go smoothly and as promised. In other words, I don't have it in writing but I'm confident it will work out. Hope that confidence isn't misplaced!
  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,676
    I have purchased new and used cars since 1983--over 30. Sometimes I might have as many as three cars. For fun. I love cars. I'm not out to impress--I just like change and comparing one to another. There are cars that, in retrospect, I wish I still had, and others I wish I never purchased. Yes, this is leading up to a point. I respect the car salesperson. They have to put up with a lot of tire kickers. Including myself. I have purchased cars at will, and others I have painfully drawn out. If I test drive a car, I always get the salesperson's card--and if I like them--I make it a point to ask for them when I return to negotiate. Having been in sales, too, I am not out to to strip all profit to zero. They are in business to make money, and the salesperson certainly deserves his share. I want a reasonable deal--but don't want to make 'their month'. So $50 or $250,etc is not something that will nix the deal. Fair deal--I just don't want to be gouged. And yes, I look for the follow up call--even if it is some what lame.

    2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech

  • rworrellrworrell Member Posts: 149
    Sorry, don't want to be someone who replies to his own posts, BUT:

    I guess I do have it in writing, since all communication has been done via email so far. I was thinking old-school, I guess, that "in writing" had to be on paper. I have everything available via email.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    don't want to be someone who replies to his own posts

    We're fine with that as long as you don't resort to personal attacks! ;)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Hmmm...

    I've seen some posts which caused me to question the author's sanity, but I have yet to see a good set of schizophrenic posts! (... a personal attack when replying to your own post?) :P :P
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    a time when I responded to my own post, disagreed with myself, started to insult myself, and "both" of us were asked to leave...:):):)

    OK, only in my 3:00 am dreams...

    I was originally diagnosed with schizophrenia, but we're OK now...:):):)
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    There seemes to be Black clouds cirling over the dealership :mad: :( :sick:
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    A few posts were removed for impertinence in case you are wondering where your message went. We don't need the clutter. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "A few posts were removed for impertinence"

    I think you missed a few - like 12,300 others ;)
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    i would say that at least 50% of the posts that are on this site have nothing to do with stories from the front lines.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I think you missed a few ...

    Possibly, but there is a difference between ordinary "off topic drift" and true impertinence. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Ya'll need to listen to ole tidester. He didn't get to become president of his own fan club for nuting ya know. :surprise:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,196
    Now you're going to have to delete "jipster's" and my post.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    To keep this particular convo on track I will add that I cleaned house yesterday on my day off. I cleaned the floor in the entry way, vacumed, cleaned the kitchen, and moved our computer table.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,409
    Just read in the paper that Ford beat Toyota in a J.D. Powers survey of initial quality. Seems joel622 knows what he's talking about.

    I think all the domestics have made progress in the last 10 years. Now if you can just convince the American public...

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    umm, me personally, i don't put much faith in J.D.Powers results, and specially "initial quality".

    if anything you want to know what long-term quality will be. if there are initial quality issues, in general, might we agree they will be promptly addressed by a dealership. and if not, it's probably not the brand to be buying.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Well Initial Quality can be a sign of long term quality.

    Just look at these...

    image

    And then look at this...

    http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2006133.pdf

    For the most part they are similar.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I am sure it absolutley killed some of the papers to have to print the fact that Ford is #1 at something again. I had to look on the back page of our local business section to find it. The front page talked about how well Nissan and Toyota did. :confuse:
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,481
    I think all the domestics have made progress in the last 10 years. Now if you can just convince the American public...

    Now all the Big 2.5 has to do is start selling a product that I want to own...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Now all the Big 2.5 has to do is start selling a product that I want to own...

    Roadburner, just out of curiosity what type of vehichles do you drive?
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "I think all the domestics have made progress in the last 10 years. Now if you can just convince the American public..."

    There is no point in even trying. Many of us have developed a lifetime loyalty to Honda or Toyota and that's all there is to it.

    The big 2.5 got along for years because the old-timers had loyalty to American brands. Well, that generation is in nursing homes or driving golf carts. In the meantime, a new generation is loyal to Japanese cars.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    There is no point in even trying. Many of us have developed a lifetime loyalty to Honda or Toyota and that's all there is to it.

    Only time will tell Bob, now we just need to see if the import buyer is seated enough to put up with all the problems the imports are having, engine sludge, recalls out numbering sales for the year, a futile effort to get in the full size truck market, etc.

    I think allot of it will have to do with if the import buyer will eat some crow and admit that there are some domestic choices that are as good or better in the sedan market or will they be stubborn and continue to drive the 2nd choice. I think it will be allot like trying to put a Chevy truck buyer in a Ford or vice versa.

    It should be a fun 5 years coming up and I a m looking forward to it.

    I will give you fair warning though. If the worm continues to turn like I think it will I will be the first to tell all my Edmunds friends "I told you so" :D
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    It should be a fun 5 years coming up and I a m looking forward to it.

    I will give you fair warning though. If the worm continues to turn like I think it will I will be the first to tell all my Edmunds friends "I told you so"

    It will be nice if you are right but it will take more than 5 years and a 100 ft. pry bar to turn that worm, it has just grown too large.

    The hole they dug may be too deep for a 5 year fix. :sick:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Though I'm still a couple years off from buying, I've entertained thoughts on the Ford Fusion. I'm heard some good things about it, even from the import crowd.

    I've always bought G.M before, throw in a Nissan and the current Mazda... and if it meets the criteria I'm looking for in an automobile, I'll consider it.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I think they should grab cars at random with 100.000-150,000 miles on them and measure quality at that point.

    "Initial Quality" is based on the surveys they send out a week after the car is sold. I got two hits this year. One car had a "bad" wiper blade. It was a pine needle that was causing a streak. The other one, the doctor and his doctor wife couldn't figure out how to use the Home Link even after I had showed them how.

    Still, I think ford has come a long way. I mean that. I just wish their resale values weren't in the toilet.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    thanks isell for stating it that way.

    so you're partial to the product you sell. i happen to be a loyal fan of the same brand, which when the odometer hits 100K-150K, it's just getting broken in instead of completely falling apart. not only that, it still has excellent resale.

    so yes, if ford can pull that off in several models, i'll buy. but NOT based on a J.D.Powers survey.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    I think they should grab cars at random with 100.000-150,000 miles on them and measure quality at that point.

    I agree that long term reliability is a much better indicator than initial quality, but it's so hard to measure, too many variables like maintenance, service rip offs, and how hard a vehicle was driven. Granted if the sample was large enough, it would have more validity.

    But kudos to Ford for making big steps in the right direction.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    that American brands are better then they were 20 years ago, altho imports have always been a moving target...when Big 3 catch up, the imports seem to have continued their improvement rather than standing still...

    I was a disillusioned American in 1985 and bought a Honda, which led to 3 more Hondas which were kept until 2001...

    I decided to give the Americans a chance to earn my business and bought a 1998 Buick and 2000 Intrepid...they WERE good cars, but I really felt they were not as solid as my Hondas... my perception, at least...

    I went on to buy a 2004 Crown Vic and 2004 Ram 1500...I am considering going back to imports, altho I will also consider American brands...

    I had to actively think in my mind to "give the UAW a chance at my business" and I almost decided against it...

    Many of us at Edmunds seem overall more knowledgeable about cars than just the colors they come in...but many average buyers, not like us, that were disgusted with American quality 20 years ago went for imports and will NEVER come back, simply because, despite Toyota's sludge problems, they still feel their $$$ is best spent on a Honda ot Toyota, after the junk they bought years ago from GM/Ford/Chrysler...

    The Big 3 have lost many customers for life, and will never win them back...and now that we have Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Audi, they have no reason to go back even when they can afford a luxury car, since the imports are equal to, or better then, Caddy and Lincoln...

    And, new car buyers in their teens and 20s have no loyalty to anybody, but have heard many stories of how their parents bought American junk in the 70s and 80s...

    I think the market share of Big 3 will be down forever, unless they slap a major tariff on the imports, but many of them are now built here, so tariffs would not apply...

    JD Power notwithstanding, I wonder how many folks will desert Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Infiniti regardless of the surveys...

    Still, Japanese makes have the reputation for lasting 150-250K miles...it is a rare person who believes that their Big 3 car will really last over 100K miles...and that is where some of the loyalty stays, with the car that keeps its value and lasts longer...

    My Prelude lasted 181K miles and my Legend lasted 165K miles, both 1988 models, when the average American car was falling apart between 50-75K miles...

    I simply wonder if our product is as good as theirs...
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    It is easier and cheaper to design and build a solid little car than to design and build an equally solid big car.
    But somehow, the US is successful in also building un-solid little cars almost every time it is tried.
    Go figure.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,481
    Roadburner, just out of curiosity what type of vehicles do you drive?

    1995 BMW 318ti Club Sport
    2004 BMW X3 2.5
    1999 Wrangler Sahara
    1996 Triumph Speed Triple

    I'm also currently looking for a new track toy/commuter and a few of the finalists are:
    2004 S4 Avant MT (CPO)- Fast but a bit too heavy.
    2004 M3 Coupe(CPO)- Almost perfect; but I can't find one with an acceptable color combination- I hate silver and black.
    2007 335Ci- Brilliant engine and slushbox, though still a bit on the porky side.

    Wild Cards:
    2007 Mazdaspeed3- I usually detest FWD, but this one is a lot of fun, especially for the money.
    2005 Mini Cooper S w/JCW kit- Ditto.

    Considered but rejected:
    2007 GTI- Nice turbo four, excellent DSG gearbox, attractive interior. However, the local VW dealers don't want to order a car the way I want it, and I also believe VW reliability remains a question mark.
    2005 GTO- Great motor, lovely interior, horrid "Cavalier on Steroids" exterior styling. Also much too big and heavy.
    2007 RX-8 Grand Touring- Unique design, terrific chassis. Too bad it gets 19 mpg and and struggles to click off a 0-60 run in under seven seconds.
    2007 Shelby GT- Nice engine, fair to decent chassis, low rent interior, and ludicrous ADMs.
    2004 X5 4.8is- Glorious Alpina V8, awesome brakes, competent chassis- plus it drives the eco-weenies nuts(almost as much as a H2 does... :P) Too bad it can't reach 60 in under six seconds.

    Basically, if it's much over 180 inches long and/or 3500 lbs. I'm not interested- unless it's very, VERY entertaining.

    Right now I'm strongly considering buying a friend's immaculate Dakar II 1997 M3 Coupe and flogging it for a year or two- after which I'll flip it for a 135i Sport.
    Or maybe not... ;)

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I have a line on a couple of M3 coupes in Blue.

    Oh and I just took a 2006 Cayman S in trade today if that tickles your fancy.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,481
    Oh and I just took a 2006 Cayman S in trade today if that tickles your fancy.

    That is one fantastic car. Thing is, I have to maintain a veneer of practicality- so four seats are a requirement. A 993 was on the list until my sixth grade son shot up to 5'5"... :surprise:

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I am going to drive it some tomorrow see how it is. It is a 2006 with only 7,000 miles on it should be a blast.
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