Stories from the Sales Frontlines

dino001 · July 2007

This is not Pinto - it's Peugeot 205 - much newer model; from 90s.

british_rover · July 2007

I know it was not a Pinto I was referring to the original hay post that Joel put up where he mentioned he needed five bales of hay for a pinto.

nthe · July 2007

" I am the LEGAL owner as per the loan documents and the title. Whose (rear end) I allow into the drivers seat is my business and irrelevant to the bank as long the payment is made by the due date"

not from the viewpoint of the bank. you are also not the legal owner of the car untill you pay the bank back. you can disagree with what i said, but this is why banks won't do straw purchases. If you want to cosign for your friend, there is nothing wrong with that, but if he is going to be an owner of the vehicle, then the banks want him on the loan.

traindriver · July 2007

I do agree with your point. I understand the bank's position and that they need to fully understand their risk and will base their approval/loan rate upon this. If by entering the transaction somehow weakens Joe Solid Citizen's ability to pay if Larry the Loser defaults, then I agree you and the bank are 100% correct...they have assumed a risk that they were not aware of. I suppose that I am thinking of situations where Joe Citizen has plenty of money and can afford to make good on the loan by scratching out a check to the bank without damaging his financial well being whatsoever. In this case, I stick by my original position. I am not considering situations where the connection between the straw buyer and the "real" buyer is based on casual acquaintance; more of situations between family and very close friends that are not as likely to leave the other party holding the bag.

If Joe Citizen merely has good credit but it would be a strain for him to assume the liability, then I completely agree that the bank has a vested interest knowing the true circumstances.

Anyway, this horse is getting black and blue and is struggling for breath.

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

jmonroe · July 2007

I guess that we have to disagree. Im all for advancements in the industry and for competition between manufacturers to introduce more compelling vehicles.

Dont worry about that disagreeing thing, Mrs. jmonroe does it all the time. Believe it or not Im a technical guy and I worked in a very high tech field when I was a working stiff (Ive got to stop calling myself that. I was recently asked to come back on a consulting basis for the old employer since theyve gotten some massive new contracts and the kids there arent quite up to speed) so Im not against new technology. None of us would enjoy working at our keyboards via candle light.

Sometimes the bugs arent worked out and in the worst cases of implementation are just disasters like recent MB and BMW electronics.

Thats why Im against unproven designs. Bad, bad things happen when you rush something to market ahead of its time.

However, these things evolve over time and become common place in vehicles. Of course reliability increases.

I would rather wait for the reliable product than being the guinea pig as it evolves.

I dont know if you remember the first electronic ignitions and how people complained how complicated and expensive to fix they were. Give me old reliable points and condenser every time. Trouble is those good ole points had trouble in the wet, combined with chokes that stuck and carburetor jets that clogged made for starting a car in less than perfect climate a crap shoot.

I have a couple gray hairs so I remember well those old ignition systems. I tuned-up more cars than I care to admit so I know full well what points and condensers are (we all know they were really capacitors since they didnt condense anything) and rebuilding those 4 barrel carburetors was interesting too.

If I want the toys and are willing to pay, why not?

I like toys too but I want them to work right the first time and last. Thats why they make chocolate and vanilla.

Nice talkin at ya,

jmonroe

lrguy44 · July 2007

I think we have all had this situation, Joe Bloe negotiates a car. His credit is pulled, only to find he has multiple late pays on one car, and a repo on another. "OH" he says, "those are not mine. I consigned for my kids. My credit is perfect."
Wanna bet?

madmanmoo · July 2007

">Recently there was a bit of posting about how the salespeople should watch out for the needs of customers. The problem is that most customers don't want to listen to you.

This reminds me of my younger days when I was selling Suntan Lotion on the beach at Panama City. I would wander around and find folks who needed it. I would quickly turn a profit off of this necessity for people to fend off burns and skin cancer. Some people just wouldn't listen though.

Those were the good old days. Oh lookie! I've actually found a picture of myself from those days trying to sell to a beatiful woman. Enjoy the walk down memory lane.

http://www.lolpix.com/_pics/Funny_Pictures_11/Funny_Pictures_114.jpg

-Moo

P.S. I'm really struggling with my picture here, I can't get it to post. The link is going to have to work because I can't figure the thing out. Enjoy!

british_rover · July 2007

Bah you non-html non-web people...

(img src="")

Put the URL, do you know what that is, of the picture you want to post within the double quotation marks. Replace the () with <> to make it work.

lrguy44 · July 2007

Moo, I think it would be easier if you just mailed everyone a copy of the picture.

jescue · July 2007

non-web people- that would be me. All that img src URL talk just makes my eyes glaze over. :confuse:

janda1 · July 2007

I am just catchinh up with several days posts,still house bound with a flu or something. It really irritates me how people continue to paint someones profession with a broad stroke. Car salesmen are like everyone else,some great some lazy some crooks. I had some lady tell me at the gym the other day that she heard I was a retired cop and that all cops are on the take. To prove her point she wanted to know how I possibly could afford to live around here on my pension. It was none of her business but I purchased my first home when I was 19 and in the Air Force. Those home purchases over the years got me here. Not a government pension. And all thanks to an old Realtor who took the time to show me the benefits of ownership. Same with car salesmen.Thats why I read this room. I learned a lot from you guys. Hang in there. :mad:

madmanmoo · July 2007

Replace the () with <> to make it work.

I'll give you an idea of what you need to replace.

I keed. I keed.

-Moo

madmanmoo · July 2007

Thanks, Janda! Feel better.

-Moo

british_rover · July 2007

Bah my sister works for a web design/graphic design company she is scary good when it comes to tech stuff.

When she was 14 one of my mom's friends was taking this college level web design course. Well this friend is a single mother with three kids, her husband was sleeping around so she divorced him a few years previously, and her kids got sick so she couldn't finish this big project in time. My sister did the last half of the project in three hours and got an 'A' on it.

joel0622 · July 2007

Cut and paste the URL into your message, then highlight the URL and the click the IMG button located right above the :confuse: emotorcon this will place the IMG tags around the highlighted area.

BTW the way you get the url is to right click on the photo and then click properties, this will tell you the URL of the pic.

joel0622 · July 2007

OK you must be using prices from a brand other then what I sell.

I sell normally a 6 yr 75K mile bumper to bumper with a 3/36K maintanence plan bundled into it for $1695. Out to 100K gets you up to around the $2000 mark.

The $3500 figure confused me. Unless it is a diesel 4X4 then your probably pretty darn close

janda1 · July 2007

Now see, I would buy that bundle at that price.

british_rover · July 2007

Whats the deductible on those Joel?

joel0622 · July 2007

Whats the deductible on those Joel?

$100 Deductible on the Service Contract $0 on the maintanence plan

$0 Deductible add $310

$200 Deductible Subtract $130

That $1695 makes me a fair profit and I don't have to peel many people off the ceiling when I tell them the price. It applies to most everything we sell with the exception of a 4X4 truck or SUV they are around $200 higher.

snakeweasel · July 2007

You signed a legal contract that stated you were the owner of the car. Legal contract.... If person posses the car is not you then it could be a breach of contract.

Unless the contract specifically states that no one else can drive the vehicle or that only you can make payments there is no breach of contract. I once saw such a situation show up in the courts. It was just declared a lease where the person making the payments was leasing it from the person who signed the contract.

lrguy44 · July 2007

I don't think this is a question of law, but rather part of the agreement between the bank and the dealer. Every dealer signs an agreement with the banks they represent. They are technically agents for the bank, In the agreement, the dealer agrees to buy out the loan and may be terminated from representing the bank if fraud (i.e. straw purchase, falsification of credit application, etc,) is discovered by the bank, No dealer wants to risk the buyback (total of original loan including taxes) or reputation.

snakeweasel · July 2007

You're right thats not a pinto this is a pinto.

[Deleted User] · July 2007

LOL, Right, and that one shouldn't explode after taking a direct hit to the rear end. It in all likelyhood won't be too happy, but no explosion should occur :shades:

P.S. Edited to say congrats for hitting the 15,000th post!
In deep, game show host voice "Tell him what he's one Trigger!!!"

lrguy44 · July 2007

Congratulations, you are the 15,000th visitor and have just won your very own Pinto.

snakeweasel · July 2007

you are also not the legal owner of the car untill you pay the bank back.

Wrong, you are the legal owner of the car once you buy it. Doesn't matter how much or who you owe the money to and you can do with it what you wish. If you wish to assign those ownership rights to someone else it it within your rights to do so.

lrguy44 · July 2007

Well, it is just like a house - you cannot sell it, trade it or otherwise dispose of it without satisfying the loan. Most states also are title holding states - the bank has the title. But in truth, the car is collateral for the loan.

snakeweasel · July 2007

that one shouldn't explode after taking a direct hit to the rear end

Nope the rear end will just explode for no apparent reason at all. When that happens I suggest you not be there.

user777 · July 2007

i know where you're comming from. i felt the same way perhaps two decades ago. yet, as i get older, i appreciate and value simple natural interfaces, items which are easy to understand and manipulate, practical and inexpensive to maintain.

these days, i see fundamental gulfs in engineering thoroughness; i hesitate to entertain blind trust in automation where the design is hidden and machine behaviors collide with years of learning and intuition. i am not signed up to have driver authority usurped by the machine.

look around edmunds. sure cars are more efficient, powerful, capable. but they are more expensive to own, maintain, operate. they fail in rather bizzare and dangerous ways.

safer? not always no. not close. those toys and conveniences are enablers for already poor drivers, increasing heads down time, or forcing peope to multi-task which we aren't very good at.

people's driving skills are getting poorer not better.

i see a marketing campaign by high-tech firms trying to sell everyone on more feature rich automation to "save people" from scenarios they should not be getting themselves in, but they do because they aren't driving their cars.

their cars are beginning to drive them.

and these vehicles and their owners are on the road with you and me and all the people you love and care for that also happen to be on the road.

smart highways, smart cars.

yeah sure.

epiney, i suspect you too will experience a similar epiphany. until then, peace.

greanpea68 · July 2007

If you wish to assign those ownership rights to someone else it it within your rights to do so.

I believe you would need a title to transfer ownership?

geffen · July 2007

No i still haven't bought a car yet, i went in saturday hoping to purchase the car i looked at last weekend turned out the car was sold and my salesman was on vacation

snakeweasel · July 2007

I believe you would need a title to transfer ownership?

Only if you want to transfer ownership, remember transferring ownership is not the same as assigning ownership rights. As an example you rent out an apartment the owner of that apartment assigns you ownership rights to that apartment but maintains ownership of same.

metro123 · July 2007

Has anyone seen the Toyota commercial where the lady unknowingly sprays the salesman with mace from her key chain just after she buys a new car.

Why does this commercial make me think of Mackabee?...LOL!!!

imidazol97 · July 2007

>...how do you add pictures

Have a link address for the photo you wish to show. It can be from somewhere like photobucket.com where you upload your own pics or another address of a computer that's always on and not protected by firewall.

Then click the Img button below the post window. Paste in your address. Then click the Img button again.

jmonroe · July 2007

P.S. Edited to say congrats for hitting the 15,000th post!

That's the one I wanted.

I had a great tale to tell and I was waiting for that post. Now everyone will have to wait until post 16000 thanks to 'snake'. :mad:

jmonroe

epiney · July 2007

i went in saturday hoping to purchase the car i looked at last weekend turned out the car was sold

You should have put a deposit on it :P Don't worry, you can still back out and shop some more.

Maybe Moo or Carhag sold it on you

roadburner · July 2007

people's driving skills are getting poorer not better

Amen and Amen!
It just kills me when I hear someone say that they need an AWD car because they often have to drive in the rain.
Those folks should be using public transit.

snakeweasel · July 2007

It just kills me when I hear someone say that they need an AWD car because they often have to drive in the rain.

What? And all this time I have been using FWD and (GASP!) RWD in the rain? Now I know. :P

cotmc · July 2007

I had a great tale to tell and I was waiting for that post. Now everyone will have to wait until post 16000

If it's a really special tale, I think you should wait until 20000.

tidester · July 2007

That's the one I wanted.

Yes, but epiney got the better one: 15,013. At least his is a prime number! :P

And if I time it right, this one is 15,017 which makes them twin primes! :P :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

oldfarmer50 · July 2007

"...turned out the car was sold and my salesman was on vacation..."

No, he was in the back room having a good laugh.

user777 · July 2007

me thinks you've got a lot of idle time on your hands tidester.

joel0622 · July 2007

Thats a good analogy Snake. Look at it from this angle.

You own a rental property and I come to rent it from you. You check my references, run my credit, and interview me. After the week long process you feel comfortable with me living in your house and feel as though your house will be safe and well cared for.

Soon you notice it is not my name on the checks but instead the checks are from some joker named Tidester. Along with that the neighbors start calling you complaining about wild loud party's till all hours of the night, and cars racing up down the street.

So you being the diligent landlord that you are you drive by the house. You find 3 cars on blocks, a Rebel Flag flying from you beautiful Magnolia Tree, and hear a loud engine revving in your pristine garage.

You get out and introduce your self to Tidester and ask what in the world is going on. The reply is

I live here man, my credit sucks and I was kicked out of my last 3 places because of noise complaints and can't get a place on my own. So I slip my buddy Joel $100 a month to rent this pad in his name. Want a beer?

Not exactly what you had in mind when you rented the place to me is it?

jipster · July 2007

For $100 a month... you must be living out of a cardboard shack. I'm surprised that Tidester would rent such a dive. That much more he can spend on beer and confederate flags I suppose. Plus he gets the added benefit of lowering his carbon footprint... with global warming and all.

blueiedgod · July 2007

OK you must be using prices from a brand other then what I sell.

I sell normally a 6 yr 75K mile bumper to bumper with a 3/36K maintanence plan bundled into it for $1695. Out to 100K gets you up to around the $2000 mark.

The $3500 figure confused me. Unless it is a diesel 4X4 then your probably pretty darn close

Your numbers seem more reasonable, I was basing my calculations on what I have been told at F&I offices.

One time, the guy was so persistent, I asked him head on: "So, you don't think that this brand of vehicle is very reliable? Do you think I should be looking at a different brand?" He got the point.

I mean come on, I always buy this brand because I have my beliefs and previous experiences, and keep coming back. I have already put my faith into this manufacturer. If I thought it was unreliable, I would not be in his F&I office.

Back into the reading mode I go.

jipster · July 2007

I admire your perseverance and patience geffen. These sales dudes have been beating on you pretty good this past week. Yet, you still show up here with a good attitude, and deflect the wisecracks with good humor. Good luck on finding the car that is right for you.

cotmc · July 2007

Me thinks a couple 'regulars' are about to be kicked out of the Tidester Fanclub if they don't start showing a little more respect to the ol' man!

epiney · July 2007

I agree with simple interfaces in technology. The best are Apples iPhone and iPod. Leading edge technology and easy to use intuitive interfaces. Maybe Apple should design cars. However linking technology with bad driving as cause and effect is a bit of a stretch. Bad driving is bad driving regardless of what you are driving and how many features it has in it. Eating a Big Mac, talking on the cell phone, reading a map or a newspaper, reaching for something in the back seat or glove compartment does not depend on technology. Its the careless drivers out there. Im sure you have seen people do these things in high end cars as well and 15 year old beaters.

You could make the argument that some technology distracts drivers, but so does a paper map and slice of pizza. People need to take responsibility for their driving whether they have tech gadgets or a Flintstones mobile.

gagrice · July 2007

Atlanta Car Dealer Murdered 2 Employees Because They Kept Asking for Raises

Milinavicius, who was having financial problems, told police he shot the two Thursday after they kept asking for more pay, said police in East Point, which is just outside Atlanta.

"He told us that he was under a lot of stress," East Point police Capt. Russell Popham said. "Unfortunately, he decided to take his anger out with violence."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291489,00.html

kyfdx · July 2007

I can already see it..

"I'd like to sell you this car for less, but my boss would kill me.. "

jescue · July 2007

I guess our pay plan is good enough after all...

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