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Actually GM is getting out of the cloning business. Sure there are a couple that come to mind (equinox/Torrent and trucks) but overall most would not realize that the Malibu and G6 share architectures. Have not seen the new LaCrosse styling but I would look for styling lines along the Enclave. Beautiful flowing lines.
But....they don't.
It's a conspiracy! Those evil media people...it has nothing to do with the product.
The new Lucerne is selling well. It is up 35% over the Park and LeSabre in January from 2005 January. And those old cars were heavy fleet. LaCrosse is holding it's volume but is selling at much higher ATP's than the old Century/Regal. Things are not great but Buick is doing OK.
A basic problem in evaluating body designs is that the reports all say that the new design is an improvment over the old design by so & so much %. They (manufacturers) only release relative values instead of saying what the actual values are. GM said that the Aurora body had a vibration frequency of 25 hertz compared to the old bodies (1994 Oldsmobile 98 for example) value of 15 hertz. The E-class Mercedes was said to have the same 25 hertz frequency. Now the frequency may be up to 50 hertz???
Is there any fleet sales numbers available for the Lucerne? I saw a Lucerne CXL yesterday with a very old guy behind the wheel and it had an Enterprise sticker on the back, apparently they are hitting the rental lots (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). It certainly has an upscale look to it. I can honestly say, I like the looks of the Lucerne over an Avalon.
rental fleet was way down on Buicks but January may have changed that.
Honda Civic HX
-loren
The Chevrolet dealership - OMG. The cars were just sheets of plastic inside. Not even contoured, broken up, or even with a little vinyl or cloth on them. Just sheets of plastic. Thin plastic as well. Okay, REALLY COST CUTTING THIN. The leather shifter boot on their Cobalt SS was paper-thin. Thinner than a CD thin.
The HHR they had - 16K car. 8K in options.
The Cobalt LS? 16,200 for one with automatic and nromal features.
The Honda Civic? About the same price.
The Aveo? 14.5K. No, not kidding 14,500.
The Honda Fit will sell for the same price, more or less.
In short, GM is pricing their cars with too many options and too high compared to the competition. Compare a Cobalt to the new Civic. GM deserves to die if they make junk like this. We, as consumer, deserve better.
Even the Chrysler dealership right next door had better vehicles. Just sad how thin and plasticky and ticky-tacky GM has become.
Side note - one exception... the PT Cruiser had the worst seats I've ever sat in, bar none. Dear lord they almost as bad as the seats in my Jr. High auditorium(you know the type - wood/metal with no padding.
I went over to the Saab dealership for a test-drive and some therapy. At least there's one company GM hasn't destroyed yet.
I've really never seen any stats on body vibration like that...I don't know if I know what it is all about save for something like rigidity.
Unfortunately, the powers to be say either yae or nae. They have made bad calls 80 % of the time. I am not being
cynical.....we just need someone with some balls.....who is willing to put them on the line and face the consequences.
Looks like Honda dropped the model this year. Oh well, it actually got MORE MPG than listed. Some people got closer to 50MPG and certainly the 44MPG was easy to do -- highway. The average is 39. Which I am sure can be bested.
Looks like it made the hybrid not such a great buy, so it is gone.
Loren
Loren
Hybrid a great buy? That's a laugh.
And I know this is picking nits, as they're both slathered in hard plastic, but I prefer the grain of the PT Cruiser, which is kind of "elephant" for lack of a better word, to the HHR, which is more like "goosepimples"! :P
Still, it's like 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. I think they're both decent vehicles in their own right. If forced to choose, I don't think there's really a clear-cut winner.
I had to trace back the above comment quite a ways back in time. Yes Cobalt is outselling the Corolla in january. 17,513 Cobalts to 15,600 Corollas. Will it continue? Good question. January was the first month of the new pricing but the ATP is about the same as before since the incentives were lowered.
(which haven't been released yet) can't or won't compete with Mercedes Benz or BMW ????
BTW-The 2006 STS-V held it own against the CLS55-AMG. I guess if you already have you mine made up
(like many of you do) on who's the winner based on name recognition then Cadillac or a GM car is defeated before the comparison gets started. :confuse:
Rocky
Seriously why can't Rick Wagoner and the overpaid board of executives who's made/make tens of millions take another pay cut instead of it always being pushed upon the workers who are getting squeezed and are actually feel real affects. Hell they are laying off 30,000 workers at GM and you want more from the UAW when Rick is still making $1.1 million not including stock options and bonuses ?????
Is Uncle Rick who is in control of the biggest automotive company in the world and who is responsible for making the company a profit with products the american people desire and want to own (WHO'S FAILED) worth that kind of change ?????
I like I've said before the easy answer is to squeeze the low man and is a excepted practice in this country. When leadership fails the low man is the scapegoat.
Why not lay-off Rick Wagoner and the rest of the idiots who've taken the biggest and greatest company "the world has ever known" and run it into the ground and rape it's wealth because of greed.
I do believe GM could pay it's UAW workers very well if not better than they are now, if only GM from a very long time ago (70's-on) would of been managed by people with a "vision" of long-term buisness success strategy like Toyota.
Rocky
BTW- The new 2 stage hybrid system that was co-developed by GM, Diamler Chrysler, BMW, will be proven to be the best fuel efficient hybrid system on the market for years to come until Toyota and Honda can improve upon it. I gurantee they will be purchasing one to "break down" the American and German Engineering "brain trust". :P
However since it doesn't say "synergy" it will be overlooked by the brainwashed public. :mad:
Rocky
I'll await the "countless" examples of other great engineering. Not good or sound engineering mind you...but great...
I own an odd-couple pair of Mercedes, never have had a Japanese car apart from the 510 I had for a few weeks.
If GM really is at risk of Death, everyone's gonna have to sacrifice.
Job Banks are no different than extra paper pushers the company keeps employed because they know Bob Lutz, Rick Wagoner, Jack Smith, J.T. Battenburg III, or some other big-wig. Our company does the exact thing and keeps excess people who know someone or have dirt on someone.
Yes the perfectly ran company would have none of these issues. It's not all the UAW's fault like many are protraying because of there anti-union feelings.
I'd also like to see them ease up on how inflexible
workers are. In construction too, unions dictate what a guy can and can't do, and cause a lot of redundancy that way.
Back in the 80's a guy did one job only, today some do as many as 3. Dad sometimes doesn't get to take a lunch break because he is so busy.
If GM really is at risk of Death, everyone's gonna have to sacrifice.
Very true. But the question is has the top sacrificed enough ????
Delphi's Top 600 paid themselves $980 million dollars in bonus cash. Delphi CEO-Steve Miller got a 3 million dollar bonus. To the eyes of the UAW members at Delphi that's not sacrifice.
Rick Wagoner would be more convincing if he would work for a dollar or up to $250,000 salary. The guy was making more than a 1 million dollar salary back when he was V.P. of North American Operations when my grand father still worked there back in 92-93. How rich do you think he is ????
The most sacrifice should come from the already rich guys calling the shots. They can actually afford it.
Rocky
Toyota and Honda has nothing to prove when in comes to hybrids becuase they have been mass producing them for well over a five years now, some models are into second re-design already.
However johny-come-lately of hybrids: GM, Diamler Chrysler, BMW has everything prove. Their single propulsion vehicles have not been exactly hardly paragons on reliability. You don't really need to buy a gas-electric S-class to get stranded on the highway due to electronics failure, a gasoline only version will do just fine; will GM hybrid pickups have special circuits to compensate for piston slap
So who thinks hybrid Cobalt will deliver better gas mileage than a non-hybrid corolla?
Considering Diesel cost more than premium gas where I live, it hardly a bargain. An unscheduled stop for repair at VW dealership is all it takes to offset savings from driving a TDI for one year.
Hey why not?
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.02/teardown.html
Of course, all auto makers probably dissect and analyze each others' products.
However since it doesn't say "synergy" it will be overlooked by the brainwashed public.
The Prius won a 2004 award for technical excellence from the same Wired magazine quoted above. Now suppose GM's yet to be produced hybrid doesn't win similar accolades in the future--my question to you "media conspiracy" theorists out there is, why not? Or more precisely, why would the media deliberately overlook or ignore GM's offerings? What's in it for the media to malign GM/Ford/DC? What's their motivation? :confuse:
Would you rather have Sony/Panasonic or Emerson/RCA?
In my job, I never like it when someone had the attitude, "Be reasonable. Do it my way." It sounds like that is what management is saying to the UAW - "Be reasonable. Take a lower salary."
If management really cared about the company, they would take a much lower salary themselves.
However, I do not believe George W, who I think is a wonderful president, should get involved. The best way to find a realistic solution is to let the free market have its way.
Rock,
You basically said the CTS-V would eat an M5 for lunch. Quite different from holding it's own.
I haven't read anything regarding the G8 or '07 CTS-V. To date, GM (along with everyone else) has come up short when trying to out "BMW" BMW. Why will 2007 be any different? GM might be able to generate the numbers, but it's the "feel" that nobody has been able to recreate.
The only engine GM currently has that could beat the v-10 in the M5 is the LS7 and I'd be shocked it if makes it's way into a CTS-V. The supercharged Northstar can't beat it, unless they revise it for more power. I just looked in this months MT and the test numbers from the XLR-V don't beat the M5 they tested in the same issue and the XLR-V weighs less.
Quite frankly, a CTS-V competes on a different level due to the price point. It's kind of like comparing a vette to a 911. Performance is similar, but you pay for the enhanced tactile feel and driving experience in a 911. Before you flame away, I'm not taking anything away from a Corvette, it's a hell of a sports car.
***
A teardown of the 2004 Prius two years ago helped sour GM on hybrid technology. The company is slowly rolling out hybrid trucks and buses, but it's focusing its innovation efforts on fuel cells.
***
Translation: OMG, there's no way we can build a car like this, so screw it.
Lol. It's been fun, but GM - time to call it a day. As for the hybrid they are developing, unless it is either a true hybrid in that the car is electric with an onboard generator or uses a planetary gear assembly in the CVT, it's junk. A CVT with steps and hooked up to a torque converter becomes a $3000 repair bill with the lifespan of an automatic. All of the ones that I have seen also are made to be replaced as a single unit, so you can't actually fix it or rebuild it.
(note - the Prius is the exception - it uses a proper CVT)
It seems we can not give ourself credit for anything these days. We treat the Japanese like they can not do anything wrong. In fact,they just look at our mistakes and capitulates on them. Your an example of this.
They were supposed to do the job and they haven't and the Malibu/G6 haven't done a thing to dent the Camcord.
The General keeps on coming out with new models and promising "This is the new GM" and then the next year they're like "We know that the Malibu fell short but just wait till you see the Cobalt. This is the new GM".
I also think that most of you guys are overestimating the allure of RWD. The majority of Camcords and Altimas roll off the lot the 4 bangers. The front drive layout has some inherent advantages in traction and interior room that a rear drive can't match. Chrysler has done very well with the 300 family, but new entrants are only going to cut into that pie. I think that for a mid-market car, most people prefer front drive.
http://autoadvice.about.com/od/gm/ss/GMTwoModeSys_4.htm
Time will tell how those so call lousy GM vehicles perform!
My Mom really likes her Aveo. She's had it for nearly two years and has had no problems with it. I've sat in the back seat of this tiny car. I'm 6' and I can't believe how roomy it is. A sharp new Aveo is coming out soon.
Of all the subcompacts, the Dodge Caliber seems the most promising. It's a mini-Magnum!
As for the acres of plastic comments, what do you expect at this price point? Shoot, back in the day you'd either get bare metal or cardboard! Oh yeah, I sat in the new Corolla and it has a choice of interiors by Fendi, Prada, Versace, or Gucci.
***
That's not a true hybrid, as I stated, and they don't use a planetary gear method like Toyota does, so their so-called transmission is $3000 to replace with the lifespan of a normal automatic, due to needing a torque converter to work)
True hybrids use electric motors only. These provide way more than enough power, or should. The hybrid part is a small gas/diesel/hydrogen/whatever generator/turbine that powers up the batteries. The advantage is it should only need 4-6 batteries instead of a thousand pounds worth AND still have nearly unlimited mileage.
But nobody is making them yet.
As for what's wrong with the Aveo and Cobalt? PLASTIC. My 1987 Buick LeSabre, piece of junk that it was, was ten times better inside and out. Gosh - nice cloth. A bit of accents and velour here and there. Real metal bumpers rated at 5mph(!). And it got about the same mileage as the current models, despite all that "extra weight" of those bumpers. Oh - and the doors were solid enough to shrug off parking lot mishaps. And even though it had a "worthless" SOHC 3.8L engine that ran like new at 150K miles, it still put out 165HP and blew the doors off of most 4 clyinder cars.
Face it - they've made cars into tupperware lately and it is horrendous. There's no way that I should pay $16,000 for a car that is all plastic and cost-cutting. If they could make a better car twenty years ago, what in the world is going on? Kill them already if this is all twenty years gets us. Put them out of our misery.
There are literally millions of retired people who depend on GM for pensions and health care. I suppose if one uses the argument that GM should just cut them off to save money, maybe you would also agree that the federal government should just cut off social security to the old as well to balance the budget.
The social contracts between employer and employee have been broken in this country, and the problems of GM and Delphi are only a milepost for all of U.S. manufacturing - American old line companies simply cannot compete unless they pull the rug out from under their social responsibilities they have taken on for retirees.
Everyone is looking for the cheapest priced items - it is easy to do when you have little or no responsibilities to the citizens of this country, unlike GM and Delphi.
At the end of the day, the retirees and employees are going to lose out, whether bankrupcty happens or not. It is going to be very ugly 20 years from now when the generation with no employer provided benefits starts to retire.
I think GM will go bankrupt and liquidate, selling their manufacturing plants to a new company Sylvester Motors who will have no responsibility to support the GM retirees.
Sylvester will then produce cars, sell them cheaply, and make a nice profit. The GM retirees will be left out in the cold.
From what I can tell from reading the papers, that is what Bethlehem Steel did.
Not a pretty picture, is it?
I don't think that the next generation CTS will be out until the 2008 model year. It could be an early 2008 model.
-Spring of 2007 as a 2008 model (rumor). I think the G8 could/would be released around the same time.
Rocky
If management really cared about the company, they would take a much lower salary themselves.
They have taken more from the company, then they have earned. Like Hyenas or something.
However, I do not believe George W, who I think is a wonderful president, should get involved.
That's his problem he already has gotten involved with buisness. Look at the hand-outs ($30+ Billion) the airline industry has gotten from President Bush
(I do) think the presidents job is to protect american workers and buisness from slave labor.
If a small U.S. buisness is making shoes for U.S. consumption and is paying American wage scales, then it's the job of the american government to tariff foreign made shoes so the U.S. company can stay in buisness for the overall good of the U.S. economy and tax base. The foreign company avoids U.S. Taxes all togeather except sales-tax of course.
I will go to my grave believing this way. Both dems and repubs, have let the american manufactoring sectors that are still left down. It's either close or move over seas to stay in buisness. Globalization isn't fair for the people trying to start a buisness and live the american dream. :mad:
Rocky-(one mans opinion)
We have the best politicians money can buy, everyone's money except the working stiffs' money. The labor unions just need to contribute more than the big companies have contributed, e.g., Tyson, Walmart, Hunt, Texas companies I don't know.
You have to watch what they actually do in DC, rather than listening to the sound bites chosen by the media to slant their coverage. Triangulation became a watchword in previous administrations. And the current is paying attention to what happens. A long strike and downturns in the economy resulting from that could sway the next presidential election. Or can you say "Patco"?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,