By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Diesel fuel is about the same price as regular gas here in the Bay Area (maybe 15 cents less). There is still an incentive to drive a diesel at the moment if you are hauling loads, horses, boats, etc. but if you have a diesel car there is little or no economic incentive. Pump biodiesel is *very* expensive and "french fry oil" is kind of a frivolous concept for actual working people.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
One interesting tidbit that stood out among others and may be a way to explain the fast, sharp jump in prices, was that the summer driving season is April - September. When did it jump ahead to April? I thought it started Memorial Day Weekend and ended Labor Day weekend?
Maybe because of the new daylight savings time early start date this year? Apparently that's hammered TV ratings too.
Yep. Add to that the fact that corn is now subsidized at a guaranteed price to use it for ethanol. As a result both the feed corn and the corn we used to actually eat are going up in price. If you are farming corn this is great if you are not it stinks.
In addition to this little gift to big agriculture there is a tariff on over 50 cents a gallon on imported ethanol to protect the prices upward. Brazil would be happy to sell us all the ethanol we want cheaper than what we can produce it for. But, of course, it's not about what's best for the consumer - it's a gift to the farm lobby.
I dunno what I'll do if milk gets too expensive? Milk the cats? The dog is a male, so he's off the hook. :shades:
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
And by the way, I make good money so it's not about affordability with me ... it's about not getting abused.
And those who blame the prez (of whom I am no great fan) are kidding themselves. Dems control Congress and I haven't heard them complaining since ... their campaigns when they said they would do something about it. Now that they are in they are loving the tax revenues as much as any pol and are mysteriously silent. Yeah ... what a mystery. :sick:
I may have to look into a Golf/Rabbit diesel next winter when they go on sale.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I had that car for a few years, and the best I could get on the highway was lower 20's. It was getting up in years and miles by then, though, and I drove a lot faster than Grandmom or Granddad would have.
As for FWD Electras and Park Avenues, those 1990 and earlier models weren't very heavy, so they were pretty economical. And the 3.8, even when it only had 165 hp or so, was no slouch in those cars. The Park Ave/98 got heavier with its 1991 restyle, though, although it did remain pretty economical for its size. I think the final 2005 Park Ave was rated something like 19/29?
The Lucerne, which more or less replaces the Park Ave and LeSabre, killing two possums with one rock, isn't too bad either, at 19/28 with the V-6. It's a pretty heavy car, too.
Gas station owner told to raise prices
MERRILL, Wis. - A service station that offered discounted gas to senior citizens and people supporting youth sports has been ordered by the state to raise its prices.
Center City BP owner Raj Bhandari has been offering senior citizens a 2 cent per gallon price break and discount cards that let sports boosters pay 3 cents less per gallon.
But the state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection says those deals violate Wisconsin's Unfair Sales Act, which requires stations to sell gas for about 9.2 percent more than the wholesale price.
That doesn't mean I can get a 60 MPG tank though.
Glad I bought my TCH to insulate myself somewhat from $4 gas !!
Funny how the subsidy keeps increasing.
I have a lot of arguments about $4 gas, but I'll keep it simple. Pretty much, I have a bone to pick with all the environmental agencies and other groups that are restricting the widespread use of diesel engines in autos across the US. Diesels are lightyears better now than they were then and these groups are retarding the implementation of diesels on a wider scale, along with the inherent benefits. At this point, the extra cleanliness they're trying to get out of diesel engines is like trying to get blood from a turnip...not much to show for a lot of huffing and puffing.
Stupid.
Basic math dictates that with the far cleaner diesels we have today, the mileage benefits outweigh the amount of pollutants leaving the tailpipe. For example:
Gas-powered Car A gets, say, 22 mpg in the city and 28 on the highway. That's an average of 25 mpg overall. Diesel-powered Car B gets 36 mpg in the city and 47 mpg on the highway. Overall, that's an average of about 42 mpg.
Assuming both drivers drive the same amount per year, like 12,000 miles, the difference in saved fuel is 194 gallons per year. Assuming 10 million drivers in the United States with average fuel economy and gasoline-powered cars, the total savings (again, on average) would be 1,940,000,000 gallons of unburned fuel. This equates to about 46,190,476 barrels of oil every year! I know they're just numbers, but the idea behind them is staggering!
Is there an environmentalist out there who'd like to tell me that burning an extra 46 million barrels of oil is better for the planet? There is absolutely no way the clean-running diesels we have today would pollute more while burning an average of 194 fewer gallons of fuel each year. No way at all.
To any groups or agencies or bureaus or whatever that's responsible for this idiocy: get it straight, you nimrods. :mad:
The one thing I will say is that with diesel fuel being 41 cents cheaper per gallon in Slam Diego, this should encourage more people to buy diesels cars.
And when the "really truly clean" diesel cars from companies other than Mercedes (too expensive for Average Joe) and Volkswagen (questionable quality) hit our shores, things will improve.
Honda to have a clean diesel car here by 2009 model year.
Hope this helps.
Around here, diesel generally costs a dime or two more than regular unleaded, but I will pay it if I can get a ULEV diesel that makes 50 mpg! :-)
If everyone plans for high gas prices next time they purchase a new car, whether next year or 8 years from now, the industry will be forced to offer more fuel-efficient alternatives in future. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Both my wife and I drive cars that are 13 years old.
I plan to retire in the next 3 years, 4 max.
By that time I would like to have a new car that is paid for.
The criteria for this car is fuel economy, reliability, comfort and US made (in name, i.e. Ford, Chevy, etc.) I have yet to determine in what order these priorities will affect my purchase.
I have always owned either Chevy or Fords and would like to continue supporting these products even though they upset me (my true feelings are not family oriented) due to their total exclusion of diesels in passenger cars and light trucks.
Another issue that is a recurring theme is the issue of fuel efficiency.
If overnight the nation started driving cars that cut fuel consumption by 1/3, who are the biggest losers?
If you guessed the oil companies, wrong!
Federal, State and local governments will loose big time.
You might call it a conspiracy theory, but considering the billion of $$ to be lost, it has some validation.
We have quite a few showers in the water lab facility so that would not be a problem for me.
It's not like I have a gas guzzler, the Honda does pretty darn good, even the S-10 pickup was giving me 20 ~ 22mpg in stop-n-go driving. But as I stated, whether you drive a Civic, S-10 or whatever, we're all paying the same price!!
I didn't believe the "prices will peak in May then drop" story of a few months ago either. And proof of that is in reading now that prices will hover in the $3 area after Memorial Day until August, then jump again to May levels or higher and taper off in September.
When will the crap end? It's worse than the housing run-up!
Petrol - the crack of the millennium?
"That way they really are controlling it from the well head to the gas pump,'' says DeCota. "Once the gas companies get control, you are going to pay the price."
Dealer prices gas over $4 in protest ( San Francisco Chronicle)
me: You do realize that it was once the law that only whites could vote too. And there have been many countries in recent history that had laws that murdered millions of people? You should really rethink that comment. There are plenty of laws that are unjust, arbitrary and subjective, and unfair!
Maybe everyone should think of downsizing. The upcoming Scion xD looks nice.
All those bad laws you listed were DUMB laws too - but that did not make it legal to break them.
As long as it is the LAW, compliance is NOT optional, regardless of how inhumane, stupid, unjust, arbitrary, and unfair they are.
It is your duty and mine to fight to change any laws like this, rather than just complaining about them.
Back On Topic: And yes, we all need to downsize to the smallest vehicle(s) which meet(s) our needs. That will lessen the impact of $4 gas to it's lowest possible level.
I feel bad for that guy in the SF Chron article today. I glanced through it this morning thinking it would be amusing, and realized it is another case of corporations squeezing the little guy, which is all of us AND independent owner-operators of gas stations. I'm not surprised it was Shell, they always seem to be the most expensive gas around.
If the article had been better written, we might have learned if the way Shell is treating that guy is common practice in the gasoline biz, for all the corporate gas stations. I would have liked to see something on that.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Heck, it's not just fixed-income people. In my line of work, if you get an increase of 5% per year, that's considered pretty good! Now I know how to budget, and am famous for squeezing a nickel until the buffalo...oh, nevermind! So I'm not that concerned about $4.00 gas myself. Oh, I'll whine about it, don't get me wrong there! But gasoline is a relatively small portion of my budget.
Still, I do feel for people who are living on the cusp. And often it's not so easy for them to upgrade to a more fuel efficient car. Even if they'd save out in the long run, in many cases they simply can't afford the payment, or would never qualify for the car loan.
Then, at the same time, I look at these people driving around in their mammoth SUV's, guzzling performance cars, etc, and seeing them drive with the pedal to the metal. Evidently, they must not be TOO concerned about fuel prices. While it's not always so easy to change WHAT you drive, it's very simple to change HOW you drive!
What was interesting in Hawaii is the Shell station I used was cheaper than the discount stations. Gas did go up over there by 18 cents per gallon in 2 weeks. Still under San Diego prices. It is a first for me seeing that.
There would be some up-front cost to the public, a result of getting these people a free or reduced-price car, but in the long run, the reduced emissions, fuel use, less fluid leaks from a newer car, etc, just might make up for that.
Unfortunately, a program like that would be ripe pickings for abuse. :sick:
Total inflation, which includes gasoline, has been between 2 1/2 and 3 percent for the past couple years. So despite the rise in gas prices anyone who's been making 5% more per year isn't any worse off than they were a couple of years ago.
I don't understand what it is about gas prices that gets people so excited. How much we spend on gasoline is at least an expense that we have a little control over. I guarantee that most of us could reduce our driving by 10% without making any major sacrifices, if we wanted to. Most of us could buy more fuel efficient cars, if we wanted to. The problem is we don't want to. We'd rather complain and it's far more compelling to cite the plight of the poor.
Look at this chart:
It shows San Fran at about $2.68 a gallon in April 2005.
The lowest it shows is about $1.90 a gallon in January of 2005.
No hope in sight for much lower prices.....
Yeah, but how many poor people can scrape up $4K to buy a car? Most of them would probably have to take out a loan, paying loanshark-esque interest rates, and then have to get full-coverage insurance because they've got a car loan. Much cheaper to just go pay cash for some beater. That way they can skip the high interest payment, get by with liability-only insurance, etc. They'll pay more for gasoline and they may pay more for repairs if the car keeps breaking down, but at the most they'll be paying it in lumps of $20-30 more every fill-up and maybe a few hundred bucks for a repair here and there. And if a repair is too catastrophic, then it's like the old Eazy-E rap song...say oh brudda, thow it in da gutta, and go buy anutta...
Basically, buying a $4K Corolla/Civic isn't something that poor people do. It's something that frugal people do to save money. Or something parents do to get their teen into a car. But it's probably still out of reach for many poorer people.
Maybe it's finally time a put a fork in this waste of space. Go back to the military from which they came. Besides, GM already has the market cornered in gas consumption, they won't miss little ol HUMMER in the world of gas guzzlers. They only have 10 others in that class to choose from :shades: