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2009 Acura TSX

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Comments

  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    What's the latest eta for the diesel? 03/09?
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    You asking me? I have no idea. Is it even confirmed a diesel is coming?
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Does the TSX provides a visual and audible reminder if you drove off without releasing the parking brake, like the TL does?
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    Might get a better idea toward the end of the year when the car show circuit starts - might debut at the Detroit show in Jan.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    Thanks,man.
  • I've not seen any performance numbers on the automatic. The car mag reviews are always of the manual. For example, what is the 0-60 on the auto?
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    Same ballpark as last gen - about 8+ sec.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Why would one want Diesel, if prices are higher than regular gas? The new Jetta, has a TDI diesel model out, its a bit bad timing. I would rather have a Hybrid option for this car, but of course, their is always a premium for it, and usually not worth the extra money, especially when leasing.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "Why would one want Diesel..."

    Much higher mpg, and low-end torque.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    You obviously have not heard of dealers asking 3K ABOVE MSRP for the new TDI Jetta. Those folks have done the math on mileage - unlike the great majority of Americans who only buy with a narrow minded "I only buy a car that runs on regular" the diesels today are less costly even after factoring in a diesel mark up (tho not the crazy above MSRP markup).

    The diesel fuel premium is around 10-15% (and should come down) while the mileage gains are around 20%.

    Do the math - on overall cost, a diesel almost always wins out while the same can't be said for hybrids.
  • flatsflats Posts: 44
    Check out this article on the diesel TSX. If you are not interested in what could be the most fuel efficient (including hybrids) car on the road, don't bother reading. :P
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/motoring/2004433293_dieselhonda23.html?syn- -
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "The diesel fuel premium is around 10-15% (and should come down)"

    In the last year, gas prices are up 38% while diesel prices are up 65%. In the wake of those huge increases, gas use is DOWN at unprecedented rates of decline, and diesel use is...........STILL UP. Freight uses a lot of the stuff.

    Diesel prices are just going to keep going up, but they will fluctuate more than gas most likely.

    As such the Jetta TDI doesn't really pay off vs a Corolla or a Civic, but it does still pay off quite handsomely vs the underwhelming fuel economy of the gas Jetta 2.5.

    A diesel TSX would have no entry-lux competition - all the other models in its price range are non-hybrid, non-diesel. As such, I bet it will do quite well. Until someone wises up and offers a hybrid Lexus or Infiniti, and Mercedes offers a diesel C300. BMW has already announced the impending arrival of the diesel 3-series, which would admittedly be a lot more expensive than the TSX.

    But Volvo? Saab? Cadillac? Nothing. I assume there will be a Passat TDI not far behind the Jetta TDI, and that might provide the best competition of all for the TSX diesel.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    "A diesel TSX would have no entry-lux competition - all the other models in its price range are non-hybrid, non-diesel. As such, I bet it will do quite well."

    It seems you've changed your mind regarding the sales prospects for the new generation TSX. Unless I'm missing something, you've come around to pretty much agreeing about what I said several weeks ago. If course, fuel prices have risen considerably since you and I disagreed, so your current position better reflects the new economic realities.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    As such the Jetta TDI doesn't really pay off vs a Corolla or a Civic, but it does still pay off quite handsomely vs the underwhelming fuel economy of the gas Jetta 2.5.

    Yes, the comparison is only meaningful against the similar gas model - the same as you can't compare an E320CDI against an Accord.

    Demand for diesel will keep going up but I think there is some max markup that the refiners can get away with. The lack or refining capacity (especially for diesel) doesn't make the news as much as the lack of crude supply.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    I think the sticker numbers of the diesel TSX won't reflect that reality - it seems that Honda test numbers are always way below the actual numbers when it comes to fuel mileage. I expect the EPA sticker numbers to be about 26/38 (about 30% higher than the gasser) with reality closer to what the article mentioned.
  • flatsflats Posts: 44
    I am anxious to see what the final mpg numbers will be, as well as the remaining specs. I keep my cars for a long time, so I take into account the initial cost, insurance, repairs, mpg, etc. One of my current Acura's is rated 20/27, yet I always get 26/33+. So I tend to raise an eyebrow when it comes to the numbers we are given. I'll keep the diesel version of the TSX on my list. I'll reevaluate it when more details are released and crunch the numbers then.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    what the MSRP of the diesel TSX will be.
  • Car and Driver had the 190 hp Accord 4 at 8.2. I thought with the higher compression and lower gearing the numbers might be much better on the TSX.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I think the Accord 4 has a lower curb weight though.
  • bobgwtwbobgwtw Posts: 187
    Nissan has announced they will put a diesel in the Maxima. Don't have any info on displacement, HP etc.
  • You are probably correct about the weight--actually, the gearing may be more similar than I thought. It seems to be much tamer in th auto than in the manual. As the manual was clocked at 6.7, that would be about a 1.5 second difference. I am surprised by the difference being that great.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I went for a 20-minute test drive of an auto TSX yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised by the low-end torque. It actually pulled quite nicely off the line, almost like it had a small V6. It was certainly better than the '04 TSX auto that I test drove. Compared to my TL, around town the TSX is not that much different in terms of power and quietness. It is like a baby TL. Unfortunately there is still a bit of torque steer. I think the V6 in the TL has better passing power. The TSX needs to kickdown a gear for passing oomph. But overall I was impressed, almost to the point where I would consider trading my '04 TL for one because I would essentially get the same or similar power, amenities, and poshness, but with better mpg. Actually the TSX has some nice features that my TL doesn't --- backup camera, TPMS, auto headlights, satellite radio, USB connector.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    The base TSX does not come with fullly-automatic headlights. Does anyone know if it at least has auto-off headlights?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    As such the Jetta TDI doesn't really pay off vs a Corolla or a Civic, but it does still pay off quite handsomely vs the underwhelming fuel economy of the gas Jetta 2.5.
    Yes, the comparison is only meaningful against the similar gas model - the same as you can't compare an E320CDI against an Accord.

    Well there are many, including me, that would not agree that a Jetta/Civic comparison is the same as a E320/Accord comparison. But YMMV. ;-)

    Forgot about the Maxima - yup diesel version coming for CY 2009, will be more powerful than the one proposed for the TSX, IIRC. I do wonder if it won't actually be priced HIGHER than the TSX, and I doubt it will handle much better than a large luxo-barge either.

    hpmctorque: I forget if we were talking about sales prospects for ALL TSXs or just the diesels. I think the diesel will be almost in a class of one for a little while, while the gas models are overpriced or underdelivering, you pick.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Interesting perspective... I traded in my 00 TL for a new 08 TSX auto in April. I like the TSX much better than the TL. The TSX feels lighter and more agile. The handling is superior and the power feels nearly equal to the TL. This is why I am curious about the performance numbers for the auto. It feels nearly, although not quite, as quick as the TL. Granted the 04 TL was probably a significant power upgrade from the 00 version..
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I just realized that the TSX in the US, in addition to being about $7K cheaper than in Canada, also comes with no charge automatic! What kind of scam is Acura pulling on Canadians! :mad: :mad:
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    When you shift the auto transmission lever into "S", does that put it into manual mode in the sense that you have to use the paddle shifter to shift, or is it simply in a sport profile, with more aggressive shift points, but also allows you to shift manually?

    I know that's a confusing question, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is if the S mode is like BMW's steptronic, in which you can put it into sport mode, and if you don't shift manually, then it would still behave like a regular automatic, only with a more aggressive shift profile.
  • I can only speak for the 08 model--there is the fully automatic mode and the manual shift mode. There is no S mode that I am aware of. The manual shift mode requires you to change the gears.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Thanks. That's what I had suspected, although I was hoping the "S" denotes sport mode.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    "hpmctorque: I forget if we were talking about sales prospects for ALL TSXs or just the diesels. I think the diesel will be almost in a class of one for a little while, while the gas models are overpriced or underdelivering, you pick."

    We were talking about all TSXs. My recollection of the context of our difference regarding sales of the new generation TSX was the following: We were both disappointed that size and weight increased, but we differed on sales projections.
    I believe you took the position that sales would be disappointing, while I argued that, despite the rather poor reviews, I thought that sales would be respectable.

    My reasons were that first year sales would be okay because its a new generation. Second year sales would get a boost from the diesel. Third year sales would probably be supported by a freshening and/or the addition of a turbo "S" choice. Finally, although fourth year (2012) sales would probably decline, Acura could introduce an attractive lease deal, or some other marketing ploy, to help sales.

    Time will tell how things turn out.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    The debut of the '09 TL may boost TSX sales. I know for me personally, the TSX appears now as a more viable option than it did a month ago, especially after a generally positive brief test drive.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    ...you pass on the '09 TL because you don't like the styling, or because it's grown too big, too heavy, and too balky, but you still like the Acura brand, you can simply buy a TSX, right? Not so fast. Before you buy a TSX, try out the back seat. Is it just me (and I'm not a big person), or is the leg room too tight for a mid size car? Also, access in and out of the back seat is difficult, if your shoe size is anything larger than, say, a (men's size) 8. So, as I see it, the '09 TSX isn't a good substitute for someone trading a TL.

    The '09 TSX is wider than the previous generation, but the back seet leg and foot room is virtually unchanged.
  • akt1000akt1000 Posts: 15
    The rear leg room is indeed too small to carry any adult passengers comfortably in the back: it is not any more than the rear leg room in the Honda Civic which is a foot shorter in length. Would have bought the 09 TSX by now if not for this big design snafu.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    The difficulty an average size or larger adult has in getting his/her shoes into the back, and the limited foot, leg, and knee room would be a deal breaker for me too.

    I don't understand what the designers were thinking, since the TSX is a mid-size car from a length, width, and height standpoint.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    The answer is ....the Hyundai Genesis! Similar is size, and price to the new TL, and should be at least its equal in performance and luxury. Well, ok, you would have to abandon the Acura brand, but Acura is making it easier and easier with each new model!
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Okay, How are they paddleshifters in the new TSX? Does it add more fun?

    Let me know
  • herrimherrim Posts: 14
    HI, I'm looking to either lease or buy the new 2009. Any bad experiences with the car? What have you paid for lease? I think in Miami a dealer wanted me to rip me off on a lease. Almost 500. Any recommendation?
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Well work on a good sale price, but know they won't move to much, since it is so new, also lease rates are a bit stiff. Then work on a standard lease, and that is what they offer on Acura.com $329mth- with $3,000+ down at signing, Add $60 or so more to the payment, and that is without anything down, that is for the base model TSX, meaning no technology package(navi). You can do a bit better than this, but this deal is no deal, its just a way to make the payment more appealing, but look at how much your putting down. Always start with $0 down, after you negotiate a good sale price, best way to do this, is to go around the perimeter of where you live, go online to Acura, and get dealer quotes, some dealers are willing to deal more.

    go to the Lease forums for more leasing information on what people are paying now, if you use the above technics, than your bound to atleast get a decent deal now, but its still a brand new model.

    Taking your time, and not rushing, will be the better way to get a deal your happy with.
  • haidonghhaidongh Posts: 16
    Our criteria is an entry level luxury sedan that is fuel efficient, reliable, and offers good comfort for daily commute. Powerful engine is not needed. Fuel efficiency is more important than power for us. My wifevwants to get a Lexus, so I took her to the Lexus dealership. Lexus are nice cars, but the IS 250 is too small inside, with less interior room than the Civic. However, my wife like the chic and elegant look of the exterior. The next bigger car in Lexus's line up is the ES 350, which is too large to maneuver in tight garage, and cost a lot more. I think it does not worth the money because it is an old man's car, and it is a lux-up Toyota Camry.

    This leaves us to the only other choice, which is the 2009 Acura TSX. TSX is basically a European Honda Accord built in Japan. Europe Accord has to be made smaller than American Accord because of the tight roads. The 2009 Acura TSX is the second generation just arrived to the dealership floor 2 months ago.

    The TSX offers the best value in entry level luxury sedan segment. It cost the least, offers largest interior, and offers the best fuel economy. In order to achieve this, Acura chooses a 4-cylinder 2.4-liter gasoline engine that outputs 201 horsepower and 170 lbs-ft of torque. The engine output cannot match the power on the Lexus IS 250, BMW 328i, or Mercedes C-series sedans. A lot of people think the power train is the weakest point of the TSX, but 200 horse power is good enough for us. More horses just means more cost. Who really uses that much power on day-to-day driving anyway, not to mention aggressive driving brings more wear and tear. The transmission is a 5-speed automatic transmission, which is probably the weakest point of the car, while other Luxury sedans all have 6-speed automatic transmissions. The power train is the reason why TSX costs less than its competitors.

    I have seen a lot of bad reviews on the 2009 TSX, that is because whoever writes reviews are "car enthusiasts", and they do not have to pay for the car, gas, or maintenance cost from their pockets. They are suckers to BMW and pony cars.

    Acura uses EPS (Electric Power Steering) on the TSX. It replaces the traditional hydraulic power steering. The steering wheel is no linked to a complex hydraulic system. The advantage is the simplicity, reduce weight, and improves fuel economy. The disadvantage is that it provides less steering wheel feeling to the driver. My wife cannot tell the difference, but I can tell. After driving it for a while, I get used to it.

    The gas throttle is also electric instead of the mechanical system, aka drive by wire. It also feels strange at first, but I got used to it after a couple days.

    The overall drive and ride quality is good. The ride is quiet yet I feel connected to the road. Even though the car is quite large, the suspension is comfortable but does not give me the floating ship feeling of a Toyota Camry. Acura puts in a lot of improvement on insulation and aerodynamic to reduce the noise in the cabin. The Michelin tires sticks to the road well, and there is only little body roll on quick cornering. The braking is good for me, but I heard it is not as good as its competitors.

    The 2009 TSX is bigger than the previous generation in every dimension. It offers a lot of room and comfort inside, but it also drives like a big car. This means when maneuvering in tight space, I have to be careful to make sure I have enough room for the car. I am used to the high driving position of my Honda CR-V. In this car, I feel like I do not have enough visibility to see every corner of the car.

    The TSX has a long list of standard safety features. It has Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure, together with the 6 air bags/curtains it earns 5-star ratings for each of the NHTSA's front and side impact testing. We know we buy one of the safest cars in the market.

    There are also a lot of people who hates the look of the car. I have to say the exterior style is quite polarizing. I am a guy who like flashes and bling bling on cars, so I like the style a lot. I think it looks sharp, aggressive, and energetic from most angles. It looks sporty, and it definitely has a funky European look. I do not like the Toyota-Lexus styling, it is just boring and their cars just blend in so well with most of other cars on the road. My wife, however, prefers the subtle and anonymous styling of Lexus. She thinks the car looks like a "devil". Regardless you like the style or not, one thing is for sure. You cannot ignore this car on the road, because it just looks so different. Most people do not like the style because of the new "Power Platinum" grille. It looks like a shield or some people say it looks like a bird's beak. This is the new look of the Acura family of sedans. All other Acura sedans will share the same look in the 2009 model lineup.

    The interior of the car is the highlight of the car. Even in the base model, it has perforated leather seat, heated seat, 2 memory seat positions, auto dim rear view mirror, sun roof, Bluetooth, home link garage door opener, XM Satellite radio, MP3/WAM USB port, trip computer, and many other features. Other manufacturers will nickel and dime you for these features, but they are all included in an Acura. The seat is wrapped with soft leather, and it is supportive. I prefer the seat can be less firm, but I am now used to it. The interior material is soft and high quality. The driver and passengers can feel pampered inside the cabin. The steering wheel, gear shifter, and arm rests are also wrapped in leather. There is a lot of room inside for my arms and legs. I actually feel it got too much shoulder room, because I am having hard time resting my elbow on both left and right armrest. It is probably better fit for a larger person.

    I find the rear passenger leg room can be tight if I push the front seat back. However, it still offers more room and comfort for the rear passengers than Lexus IS 250. The backseat can only have 2 comfortable passengers. A third passenger at the back will feel the sitting position very awkward. This is because the shape of the back seats is like a bucket to make sure 2 passengers feel supportive.

    The center storage lid has an auxiliary port for MP3 players, and it also has a USB port for any USB storage device and iPod. I connect a 4GB USB thumb drive to the car, and the audio system is able to read all the files on it. Many other luxury sedans has built-in hard drive for storing music. For the TSX, I can just plug in my own hard drive. The audio system has fully-integrated iPod interface if you plug an iPod. I found this system does not work with Zune.

    (to be continued)
  • haidonghhaidongh Posts: 16
    I just went through Edmunds article Confession of a Car Salesman. It is so good. It is a 3-hour reading, but it can probably save you thousands.

    After owning the car for 3 weeks, I like the TSX more and more. In some other Edmunds member's words, this car is growing on me.

    In order to find out how the 2009 TSX compares to a BMW 328i, I went to a BMW dealership to test drive it. BMW 3-series is the car all magazines saying it defines the entry-level sports car category. So I want to find out what if I get a barebone basic BMW 3 no-thrills instead of an Acura.

    There is no comparison. This is my first time driving a German car, and it is sooooooo bad :cry: :confuse: . The interior design of BMW is so outdated, looks like an aged VW car. The leather feels so cheap (hard and rough), I feel like being in a low cost car. I cannot tell the car accelerates faster or handles better than the TSX, maybe only testing device can tell. I feel like I don't know how to drive a German car after driving Japanese cars for 10 years (and some American rental cars). And the sticker price is $39,000 with same equipment and feature of a basic TSX without navigation. I never know you have to pay $800 for a silver paint on a BMW, or you have to pay a $3000+ premium package just for leather seats and other things that are standard in an Acura. Even the iPod adaptor cost $400, a lot more than the iPod itself. I finally know what nickel and dime means :blush: . After some negotiation it is probably still $10k more than what I pay for the TSX. Yes, BMW gives you 4 years of free maintenance, the exterior style is cool, and it is a smaller and more nimble car, and people will fantasize a BMW owner, but give me a break for paying 10k more for a car I don't like.

    BMW lovers, I am prepared for your hatred comments to my post. You guys just have too much money to spend.

    I wish my TSX can have the benefit of roominess and comfort of a mid-size car and still have a small car exterior package, but I cannot be too greedy.

    After test driving a BMW 328i, I go back to the TSX :shades: cuddle in the comfortable leather. The TSX never feels so comfortable and smooth. :D
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Though a BMW is a nice drivers car, but I feel now, that the competition is catching up with them. Paying that much for a standard car, with no extra frills, is crazy. The BMW can be a little over rated. Though, could drive amazing, based on opinion. But, when compared to other similar models, packages, value, and it is getting to the point where they simply beat the BMW. That is a huge premium to drive a base model BMW. I love BMW's, but you could get LOADED car, like a TSX or even TL for that money, and have everything you could possibly want.Also, have money left over. Plus, lower mainenence and high value!
    BMW simply cannot beat the value TSX offers, when compared to price.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    I find it difficult to justify BMW prices too, but sales and resale values for the brand suggest that they aren't priced unreasonably.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    That is true, but its crazy when you cannot get a used model for any less than a new model. Sometimes, they are at more of a premium to get than to just buy new. 3k, 6k, 12 miles, it is no longer new, and long enough, to consider it perhaps like new, but not "new". But, with that said, I see a similar case on Honda/Acura cars alll the time. You are better off buying new, because they are so expensive when used, even the models only a few years old are still quite high. Which is good, that is the nice part of owning a Honda, literally in about a year or so, you can literally trade out, and walk away with owing nothing on your traded Honda. I know, because I have done this before.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    After driving a '09 TSX service loaner for a day, 2 things I didn't like were the steering, which felt inprecise, and had torque steer; and the size of the car. It just felt big. As you said, ones has to exercise caution when parking. Those are 2 areas where the BMW shines over the TSX. Yes, I agree a loaded TSX costs less than a base BMW 328. But you should factor in some things in the Bimmer than you cannot get in the TSX, at any price --- 6 cyl engine, 6-sp auto, available AWD or the choice of RWD, the array of electronic nannies, the best steering in the class.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Yeah, and for these reasons I'd prefer a RWD 328 to a TSX, and would probably pay the premium price for it, though reluctantly. I like the styling of both cars about equally.

    One thing I really dislike about the BMW are the run-flat tires. I wish regular tires and a mini spare were standard, with run-flats optional for those who prefer them.

    It'll be an interesting comparison when both cars offer diesels, in the near future.
  • Yeah, I agree with you that BMW has a lot of things that Acura does not offer. Acura is trying to make it simple by including things most regular people like, and does not offer that many choices. They are probably mainly targetting average joe like me, who is new to the luxury car segment. I have not seen another manufacturer has such a clean price break down list like Acura. Other than the VIN etching, there is nothing on the list I do not ask for.

    We drive our cars a lot for commute to work, and cost of owner is a major consideration for us. Value seekers should not go wrong with a TSX, but the TSX may not offer much excitement for thrill seekers.

    There is an Edmund article on the fuel efficiency trend the auto industry is taking Trade-Offs Along the Path to Better Fuel Economy
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    I saw a black TSX in the flesh today, very sharp!! I actually saw one going to the opposite direction near our local mall, so I turned around and found it in the parking lot. I really like it! I knew it was a TSX. The black looks nice, I would tint the windows, and it would be perfect. I am going to look at that car closely next spring for a lease. Too bad the dealer is an hour away, otherwise, I would test drive one, Perhaps I will make the drive down there. It would be worth it.
  • I have been enjoying my 09 TSX for 4 months and have almost 10,000 miles on it. It is a great car and others must also agree since my dealer still can only keep 1 or 2 on the lot because they sell as fast as they arrive. My biggest and only complaint is the glare on the nav screen, it completely washes out in certain conditions. Has enough power for everyday driving, handles well without comprimising ride comfort, and has features and technology that would cost thousands more on the competition. And due to my long commute I love that it averages 30 mpg while cruising between 70 and 80 mph, and the 201 hp 4 cyl feels just as powerful as lexus 204 hp 2.5 v6 in everyday driving.

    Almost bought a IS250 but to get all the features the TSX has would have cost 7,000 more. HID lights, bluetooth, heated memory seats and few other things are standard on all TSXs and optional on the IS250. And for the base price of a IS250 I got a TSX with Navi, no one comes close on value.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    Hosts - the car has been out for over 5 months - time to move it from the Future Vehicle threads.
  • Hi - I just purchased a 2009 TSX a week ago and I love it. My question is this. I noticed that when I first start the car each time, for the first 10-15 seconds or so, the engine sounds loud, then levels off and becomes quieter. It sounds almost as though I am stepping on the gas pedal while I start the car.

    Has anyone else noticed this? Is this normal?

    I thought I read something in the owners manual last week that said there was something that causes the engine to be a bit louder when first started - but I can't find it now.

    Any feedback would be appreciated. (My next step will be to contact the dealer service department, but I thought I'd try to see if anyone else experienced the same issue first.)

    Thanks.
This discussion has been closed.