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Sunroof leak on my Saturn Outlook

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Comments

  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    Hello domp,

    I saw your post and that you had been extended an offer but it was not carried out? It sounds like this was with your District Specialist? Given the way Christina and I divide and conquer (forum posts vs. emails), I don't have your case number. If you could get that to me or Christina we can check to see what happened on that.

    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Hello tgrace, Please, look back on post on this forum and you will find a wealth of information that will help you deal with GM. You will also find GM is fully aware of the water leaks. I was shocked when this happened to my car. The electrical box was corroded which caused extensive water damage and electrical problems , as well as the rear lift motor flooded. The electrical problems continued after extensive repairs that GM PAID FOR IN FULL!! The health issue from the mold can be serious! Also, the water leaks have happened to many consumers of the owners of the GMC Arcadia and Buick Enclaves. Apparently they are all the same vehicles. I'm grateful my car died in my driveway and I was driving when it decided to shutdown. I see that gmsarah contacted you. You need to contact GM. GM did put out a Service bulletin to extend the sunroof drains from the sunroofs..... repairs were done to prevent water leaks.... the repairs to prevent the problems failed and happened despite repairs from the service bulletin....GM knows this... I believe it is under what is called a Secret Warranty...Unfortunately, with all the extensive repairs, my car continued to have serious electrical problems... and is a lemon... Good luck to you and don't give up.
    Remember, GM HAS PAID FOR MANY REPAIRS ON THIS FORUM. THEY WANT US ALL TO GO AWAY.... I hope you can be reimbursed. Also, our sunroof glass was not installed correctly when it was built and the glass was replaced as well.

    Although there is currently no federal law concerning secret warranty programs, they are illegal in various states, including:
    California
    Connecticut
    Maryland
    Virginia
    Wisconsin

    Secret warranty laws typically require manufacturers to disclose their secret warranties by giving direct notice to affected owners, including information about the terms of the warranty program and reimbursements that may be available to those who already paid for repairs.

    Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't.

    Tell the local media about your secret warranty problem. Many consumers get reimbursed because a local Action Line, newspaper or television station starts to take an interest in a secret warranty. After all, if a manufacturer is trying to keep a secret warranty secret, the last thing the company wants is publicity on the secret warranty. A particularly good strategy is to announce the formation of a group to expose the particular secret warranty affecting your car. Even if the group is small as you and your neighbor, a group is powerful and attracts more attention than an individual.

    Small Claims Court
    Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't. Take the documentation on the secret warranty and your repair efforts to small claims court. At this point, it's the manufacturer who often gives up knowing that the legal rights are on the consumer's side. The manufacturer relies on its own complaint handling mechanism to wear down consumers. once you show you won't be beat by the manufacturer's complaint handling mechanism, you should succeed. The manufacturer will finally recognize its responsibility for the defect in your car and reimburse you.

    Conclusion
    The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The consumers who complain the loudest get reimbursed under secret warranties. The good customer who goes away quietly gets ripped off. Until auto companies wake up and realize that consumer protection is good business, consumers have to be aggressive or they will wind up paying for an auto company's mistake. Since billions of dollars in repairs are covered by secret warranties, the total benefit to consumers in exercising their rights is enormous.


    Secret warranties are a multi-billion consumer abuse. Every auto company makes mistakes in building cars. Whether they are design defects that affect every car or whether they are manufacturing defects which affect only some cars, they must be repaired. The only question is who pays for the manufacturers' mistakes, the manufacturer or the consumer. Although the auto manufacturer often establishes a secret warranty to pay for the repair, all too often it is the consumer who pays for the manufacturer's mistake because the consumer never finds out about the secret warranty. That's wrong and the Center for Auto Safety wants to change it.

    In a 1987 report the Center for Auto Safety (CAS) created national headlines by identifying 10 exemplary secret warranties covering 30 million vehicles and $3 billion in repair costs. Yet this is but the tip of the iceberg for we estimate that at any one time over 500 secret warranties exist for all auto companies. According to a Toyota whistleblower who provided a complete list in May 1988, Toyota alone had 41 secret warranties at that time.

    By exposing secret warranties, CAS forces manufacturers to pay for their mistakes and creates a strong incentive for them to build better cars in the future. once secret warranties are disclosed, consumers will save hundreds, if not thousands, in repair bills on their personal cars. Spurred on by CAS exposes, state legislatures are moving to pass secret warranty disclosure laws that will protect consumers. Until then, consumers must rely on the strategies suggested in our book, Little Secrets of the Auto Industry, to discover and use secret warranties to pay for repairs in their vehicles.

    What is a secret warranty?
    Auto companies hate the term secret warranties. They call them policy adjustments, good will programs, service campaigns or extended warranties . But whatever they are called, they are a longstanding industry practice. When a car company has a major defect that occurs after its written warranty expires, it establishes an adjustment policy to pay for repairs rather than deal with many thousands, if not millions, of complaints on a case by case basis. But the auto company communicates the policy only to regional offices and not even always to its dealers. The auto manufacturers never notify the consumer; so only the consumer who complains loudly enough gets covered by the secret warranty. Other consumers end up bearing the costs of the manufacturer's mistakes.

    Examples of Secret Warranties
    CAS has documented case after case of secret warranties since our founding in 1970. one of the first and most famous was Ford's J-67 Limited Service Program which covered rust on 12 million 1969-72 cars and trucks. In this case a bulletin which went out only to Ford regional offices stated, "This is a limited service program without dealership notification and should be administered on an individual complaint basis." Under this program, Ford would pay up to 100% to repair rust and paint damage on its vehicles even if it cost over a $1000.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Another name is After Warranty Assistance.

    The Secret Warranty - Understanding After Warranty Assistance
  • tgracetgrace Member Posts: 4
    Sarah, thank you for your reply to my post. I have contacted GM Canada and am waiting for a callback after missing the call this morning and leaving a message on the reps voicemail.
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    tgrace,
    Thank you for keeping us updated. If you don't hear anything from your agent by Tuesday please let us know. Thanks! Hope your weekend has went well!
    Christina
    GM Customer Service
  • busharon07busharon07 Member Posts: 3
    September 29, 2012 , I have posts # 313&316 under Transmission Problems too. We have had about 3 inches rain today in North Central Texas, badly needed, except my Outlook is soaking wet inside the passenger side front floor, it's been dripping from the side airbag all day and when I stopped quickly, water gushed out from the headliner onto the dash on the passenger side. I've used several towels so far.
    This is not the first time, this has been the worst ongoing problem I've had. Shortly after I bought it I had it in more than once and then the recall came and the drain lines were too short so they were changed out. It has leaked a couple times on BOTH sides and dripping to the third row seat over the backup sensor. Today is really bad with all this rain!
    My transmission went out in April, luckily in warranty, but warranty is now out. I paid alot to get the steering fixed at the same time though, it was grinding and power steering would fail when I went through water. So that must be fixed cause I was in alot of water today and no steering problem. But this leak is rediculous! GM should fix this ongoing problem! My mats were ruined long ago, but I'm afraid the airbags are also ruined, and I have water spots on the ceiling liner. Guess I'll call my local Chev dealer Monday but they couldn't find the leak last time I told them it was dripping from the backup sensor!
    Any comments GM?
  • postonnopostonno Member Posts: 12
    The''08 Outlook that I purchased new has been in the shop 8 times to repair the roof leak issues.
    The solutions have ranged from short drain tubes (replaced via recall 1 month after purchase), to my fault for allowing leaves to accumulate outside the lower edge of the windshield. Both sunroofs have been removed and re-sealed more than once.

    I have no doubt that the problems stem from an engineering defect in the design of the vehicle, and that GM should have probably recalled and replaced all vehicles as soon as this issue surfaced. By stonewalling customers, they have largely won.

    I would suggest that everyone with continuing leak problems, be it the Saturn Outlook or sister vehicles from Buick and GMC, file a complaint with the NHTSA, citing serious concerns over potential airbag failure due to water intrusion into the pillar posts where the 4 side/corner airbags are located. Its a little late to find that an airbag has failed after a collision resulting in serious injury or death.
  • negoutlooknegoutlook Member Posts: 1
    I am completely vexed and disturbed by the response I'm getting from GM on this issue. My 2008 Outlook, which I had purchased brand new, recently began leaking from the roof. The water was coming down the "A" pillar on the driver's side and was actually coming out of the airbag badge on the pillar. It was then coming out onto the floor from the emergency brake. The emergency brake warning bell was sounding for approximately 30 minutes, obviously indicating an electrical disturbance. Having seen the countless such complaints on this forum and others including the TSA website, I am baffled that GM has not come up with a viable solution to this problem. I was actually told by GM's business response center today that my vehicle was not included in the two service bulletins that were issued concerning the manufacturing defect/design flaw. As such, I was told I would not receive any assistance from GM if it were confirmed to be the same cause on my vehicle. Essentially, she advised that because my vehicle was manufactured at a different plant, I was out of luck. I find this absolutely absurd and frankly, criminal. The damage this water may have caused could be catastrophic. Anything from electrical problems with other vehicle functions to mold. I have personally owned 5 GM vehicles. My immediate family has purchased over 20 in just the past 15 years. This experience and GM's lack of responsibility for this, a known problem, has completely turned me off on the brand.
  • ofcparkerofcparker Member Posts: 1
    We bought our 08 Saturn outlook brand new. at 800 miles I noticed there was water inside the vehicle and door. I brought it back to the dealer and they said it was nothing, just "dust" from the manufacturing process. I had them add that statement to my receipt. I then went back at 18,000 miles (still under warranty) with the same problem and they said there was nothing wrong with the car. I never received any recall info from Saturn or the Gov't on the recall for the drain tubes. Fast forward to 40,000 miles and the leaks got much worse. The entire interior of the car was soaked. I brought it to GM and they said its not under warranty and I would have to pay, until I showed them my first receipt from the 800 mile issue. They cleaned the carpets and checked the drain tubes (but never replaced them because they said that recall was done) and said they couldnt figure out what was wrong. Ive recently noticed that now there is water coming from the side curtan airbags. Brought it back and now they said they think its structural and has something to do with the frame. They wont give me a loaner car and said I need to rent one from them so I can leave the car so they can look at it. Im sick of GM and their BS. I hope all of you with the problems fight this because this company has known for years about all these problems. Mold and airbag damage is extremely serious and can cause many health problems. If this issue doesnt get resolved with them Im thinking about starting a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. whos in?
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    Hello ofcparker,

    Have you opened a file with Customer Assistance yet on this issue? If you would like to get one started through us, please email us at socialmedia@gm.com with more details (including your name and Edmunds username, phone and address, the last 8 of your VIN and mileage, and the name of your dealership).

    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Hi ofcparker,
    Go to page 42 and you can read the information about Secret Warranties. It is also very informational to go back and read many of the other posts. It is criminal what has happened to the consumers of GM. These leaks have devastated people. We ended up giving our car back to the bank with over a 100 pages of documented communications with GM and repair statements. It ruined our credit and devastated us. Unfortunately, the bank could care a less and the car went to auction.... it looked brand new inside due to the extensive work done to stop the leaks. The electrical could not be fixed and the car was unsafe. It poured in the North West yesterday and all I could think about was some poor soul has our car and the disappointment to follow.... I did not go down without a fight!
    I just want you to know GM paid for EVERY expense, my car was in the shop for a period of 2 months and still could not fix it. The repairs were extensive. GM paid for my rental car as well. GM pays for these expenses I believe because of the Secret Warranty to prevent a Class Action. I contacted the firm below and they informed me of laws in certain States that will protect consumers. Unfortunately, i don't live in those States. If you do, this will be helpful for you. I would like to know the steps taken to have this law in all states. When and if you talk to GM they will give you the run around and tell you things like pine needles get stuck in the tubes etc...and how each case is case by case. It's BS they are well aware of the problem. Good Luck to you and keep up the fight!!

    Does your car company have a secret warranty program?
    A "secret warranty" program, also known as a "silent recall," is a program where a car manufacturer offers repairs for free or at a discounted price to some, but not all, of its customers. Secret warranty programs are hidden, meaning that auto manufacturers do not notify consumers of their warranty program, leaving consumers to discover these programs on their own or pay for repairs themselves.
    With secret warranties, an auto company avoids the costs of having to offer the program to every eligible customer. These programs are inherently unfair and are illegal in several states. At Girard Gibbs, our attorneys represent consumers in class action lawsuits involving unlawful secret warranty programs. Learn more about our secret warranty lawsuits.

    Car Secret Warranty Laws
    Although there is currently no federal law concerning secret warranty programs, they are illegal in various states, including:
    California
    Connecticut
    Maryland
    Virginia
    Wisconsin
    Secret warranty laws typically require manufacturers to disclose their secret warranties by giving direct notice to affected owners, including information about the terms of the warranty program and reimbursements that may be available to those who already paid for repairs.
  • tgracetgrace Member Posts: 4
    I had the same issue. It was caused by water leaking in from the sunroof and ending up in the fusebox under the front passenger dash. A $1400 repair to replace the fusebox :( although GM did offer a small credit when I complained to them about the persistent water leaks in the Outlooks.
  • tgracetgrace Member Posts: 4
    You are likely getting water in the fusebox under the passenger dash. Mine originated from blocked sunroof drain tubes.
  • crazyoutlookcrazyoutlook Member Posts: 6
    edited October 2012
    My 07 outlook does not have a sunroof however still leaks through the rear view mirror casing down onto the shifter which will consequently freeze up with condensation in the winter. Add this to the transmission, leaking power steering fluid, broken seat adjuster, broken motor on the auto lift gate. This car is a lemon and has caused us nothing but problems. We have only put 20,000 miles on this vehicle for a total of 60,00 miles after purchase. Not what I was expecting from a GM vehicle that we paid way too much for!
  • ssr22ssr22 Member Posts: 2
    I was relieved, and also frightened, to find an entire forum dedicated to the problem I just started having with my '08 Saturn. I haven't read through this entire thread, but almost every issue I've seen here has suddenly developed with my car (see below). I'm particularly upset because the car is almost paid for and I am not willing to pay for repairs that are clearly related to a design flaw/issue--this better be covered by warranty. I actually like this car...it meets the needs of my family and planned to replace with an Acadia when the time came, but I certainly wasn't planning for that already! Now I'm questioning whether I'd buy another GM at all.

    Any advice for successful tactics to get this resolved by GM is appreciated!

    Issues w/2009 Saturn Outlook after and/or during rainy weather:

    - water leaking from both driver and passenger front airbag badges
    - water streaming down inside passenger windshield when stopping/breaking
    - water dripping from overhead light between front and middle row seats
    - audible sounds of water splashing around in the ceiling and trickling to either side when turning corner
    - parking break light came on and warning signal chimed for hours
    - radio no longer works
    - backlight on left side of dashboard is out
    - parking assist/back up signal not working
    - blinker no longer sounds (no clicking sound when you signal)
    - car continued to run after removing keys from ignition after rain last week
    - dead battery later that day
    - keyless entry didn't work yesterday—began functioning again after opening doors with key
    - musty/moldy odor beginning to set in, particularly on warmer days
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    ssr22,

    While we cannot promise up front what the end resolution will be, we would be willing to check into this further with you. Please email us at socialmedia@gm.com if you would like for us to do so, and include a brief recap of the situation, your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of the VIN and mileage, and the name of your preferred dealership.

    Thank you,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • ssr22ssr22 Member Posts: 2
    Thank you for your note. I sent an email to the address you mentioned above and also included the Saturn customer service email address from your website. An agent already contacted me and set up a service request.
  • simone_89simone_89 Member Posts: 5
    I have to say, I'm a bit disheartened. My '08 Saturn Outlook has had this issue for years. We did the recall for the channels thinking that this would solve the minor leak we had in the driver's side window, only for it to turn in to a full blown leak that comes out over the third row. I have taken this car in every year, save last year (as it didn't rain), to have this looked at and all I EVER get is "we can't replicate the problem."

    There's now a leak in the right front passenger panel as well.

    I took the car in today to the dealership and he flat out told me that his manager would not approve them doing anything for free as they're "getting rid of this car." I reminded him that I've been in here every winter and he told me, "except for last year, and because it's been over a year I don't know what we can do."

    Seriously?? I told him I've read this blog post and that I know GM knows about this problem and while the guy was really nice, he told me there's nothing they can do but run a diagnostic (which I'm sure I'll have to pay for) and get back to me. He added, "Unfortunately, you're looking at 5-6 hours of labor at $180/hr." $900 to start fixing a problem I've been telling them about for years and GM knows about??

    Not to mention our transmission just had to get completely replaced and it still doesn't work right. I've seen Customer Service respond to posts here. I'm hoping they see this and can give me a course of action that I can take. A couple weeks ago during a rain (and the car was leaking) the radio started to short in and out. I'm now concerned that this leak is affecting other things in the car.
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    Hello simone_89,
    We can certainly understand why you're frustrated and are available to check into this further (although we cannot promise up front what the end resolution will be). Please contact us at socialmedia@gm.com and include the following information: your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN and mileage, and a brief summary of the situation so far.

    Regards,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • simone_89simone_89 Member Posts: 5
    I've heard back from GM Customer Service. Basically they reiterated what the dealership said. The channels will have debris build up due to our not getting them cleaned out. The funny part is, is that every time we've taken the car in they said the first thing they did was blow them out. I'm done.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    WE too were told this by the dealership and with the first call to GM. I feel this is a part of their script. I'm not sure how many times you've contact them. We pushed the issue and told GM that we were aware of the complaints, etc and GM paid for ALL repairs, the car was in the shop for a long time on and off because the leaks continued. They also rented us a car that totaled over 800. dollars. We no longer have the Outlook. It was a death trap! Despite repairs, problems continued. GM wants to wear you down.... I'm not aware what State you live in but there is a few states there is protection against Secret Warranties which in my opinion is what GM is doing with this horrific known defect. Good luck simone 89.
  • tallgolftallgolf Member Posts: 8
    Hi, nice to know we are not alone with our lemon of a car. We bought our OL new and within two years it was having problems. My husband nearly lost his life twice when the car suddenly turned completely off while driving 45 mph on a four lane arterial home from work.. no steering, no brakes, nada. After MANY attempts to get help, multiple visits to the Chevy dealer at our own expense, me on the phone endlessly with GM trying to get help (you have to yell finally - no one cares otherwise)we got a GM custmer service person on board, and someone FINALLY decided to replace the car's computer which solved the problem. My husband is lucky to be alive.. at least all the other times it died were either pulling into our driveway or at stop lights. We did have to have it towed home from a vacation when it wouldnt start, so that was fun. We HATED this car at this point, but are stuck with it.
    NOW it leaks endlessly. We are in the Pacific Northwest and have had 18 inches of rain this year.. Guess where it all ends up.. INSIDE THE CAR. Comes out the airbag hole, out the seam between the roof material and the plastic of the corner, splashes all over my husbands head if he stops quickly. We've had the Chevy dealer deal with the drain tubes.. AGAIN at our expence $350.. just add it to the rest of the money we've spent. Im all for a class action suit and would gladly sign on. Will watch this forum for details. No one will take responsibility for these cars. We're screwed, essentially. Never buying a GM car again as long as I live. Hope my kids, husband and I live through this car.
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    Our apologies that it was a frustrating process to get the computer replacement done, tallgolf, and that now there is a leaking concern on the vehicle. Are you already working with Customer Assistance on the leaking concern? If not and if you would like for us to check into this further, please contact us at socialmedia@gm.com with more information (including your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN and a summary of the current concern(s)).

    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • tallgolftallgolf Member Posts: 8
    Hi Sarah, no, we are not working with anyone at this point. Im not sure how it will help... reading this forum, it looks like most never get this water issue fixed. Will be interesting to see how this manefests in future accidents with that side airbag failing to deploy, or suddenly deploying, due to years of water saturation. The Chevy dealer we work with has done what they know to do at this point. We've already spent $350 with them.. not willing to spend more. I'll take your suggestions but I honestly have zero expectations of any help or solution. Sorry.. its just been Hell with this car.
  • leakyoutlook1leakyoutlook1 Member Posts: 3
    Perhaps if enough Outlook owners complain of the hazards that the leaky sunroof and moon roof are causing to the NHTSA a recall can be initiated. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

    I emailed the gm customer service about the leaky roof and it was suggested I take it to my dealer. This Outlook has been to the dealer several time for the issue and I still have a problem.
    I plan on scheduling another appointment for the problem with my GM dealer.
  • tallgolftallgolf Member Posts: 8
    Here's the thing leaky, IT WILL NEVER END. These cars cannot be fixed. You only have to see this forum to know we were all screwed when we bought these cars. Are you aware that the GM CEO made $9 million salary in 2012? How does that make you feel? Think he drives one of these leaking death traps? I sincerely doubt it. Bet his kids arent sitting in black moldy seatbelts.... think about it.
    Thanks for the link. I am going there now. And then Consumer Reports if they have a place for these kinds of complaints.
  • postonnopostonno Member Posts: 12
    I have posted several times on this site since my first roof leak issues in 2008. Its now been in the shop 8 times. The dealer says the leak is repaired, and it may not rain for several months, thus I don't know immediately if it has been fixed (never has, yet). After a year of aggravation, I notified the NHTSA of the issue. My concern was the water running out of the rear airbag covers, and whether they, or any other airbags, might fail as a result of continued water intrustion. I was assigned a case number, but never heard further...not surprising, since the taxpayers of America actually owned GM at the time. They wouldn't want to have a recall of all the leaky Saturns, GMCs and Buicks. I truly believe it is a design defect, and the only sure remedy would be to scrap the vehicles.
  • tallgolftallgolf Member Posts: 8
    I couldnt agree more. We have water literally running out of the airbag covers. I see on the NHTSA site that many people have had $$$ transmission issues and $$$ headlamp fires. I suppose we have that to look forward to. If we survive this car that long.
  • leakyoutlook1leakyoutlook1 Member Posts: 3
    edited February 2013
    I would like to share this with everyone. A disgruntle GM dealer mechanic shared this with me. I was informed that these vehicles (Outlook) Have a structural problem, it is from the vehicle body basically twisting during operation. What has to be done is the complete roof liner has to be removed and i understand that some type of reinforcement is installed and sealant. So basically the sunroof / moonroof combo has structurally degraded the integrity of the vehicle.
    I think this vehicle broke the Bank for GM and that is why they had to take the Government bail out. Wow ! Now things are starting to make sense. That could be one of the reasons to the end of Saturn ? Just a Thought.
    I am starting to question my devotion to GM.
  • leakyoutlook1leakyoutlook1 Member Posts: 3
    If you take your vehicle back to the dealer, the head lamps should be replaced under Recall. Ask the dealer service to check for you. request that your vehicle be updated for all the recalls. You can go on line and get a list of the current recalls on the vehicle and compare them with what the GM dealer service comes up with. I have had a Brand new transmission put in my vehicle and it had less than 60K on it. I believe there maybe a recall for that too. My Trans was replaced under warranty.
  • simone_89simone_89 Member Posts: 5
    So we have actually ended our nightmare and bought a Ford. After all of this, we will never buy GM again. The service manager told me they know this is a problem, but because they've discontinued the car and it only happens in a limited number, GM will not do anything about it. I get they need to make money, but what about doing right by your customers? Oh, and he also told us "Sunroofs leak - period." In my almost 30 years of owning a car, all but one having had a sunroof, I have never had a sunroof leak. I have never had a friend's sunroof leak. Maybe we're just lucky, but something's telling me that everyone but GM knows how to install a sunroof.

    Goodbye GM. Wish I could say it was a great experience. At this point, if our Ford doesn't work out, we will go back to buying Japanese.
  • wsct1998wsct1998 Member Posts: 3
    I also am part of the 2008 Saturn Outlook issues. It is sad this car is a money pit and GM not standing behind it at all. Obviously it's not rocket science it is clearly a design problem. Every car I have had in the past also has had sunroof's not one of them leaked. Not one!!! The car leaks out the lights inside the back, it smells, it leaks at the emergency brake area it is ridiculous. I call GM because clearly everyone ha this problem. Nope not covered. I also brought it up when I too was part f the transmission problem with the shaft. I can to believe how much trouble this car is.
    I am going to look into a class action suit because clearly this is ridiculous. You start to type it in google and the sentence gets finished for you. That is clearly pathetic!! Comment after comment same troubles. So what I should put more money out on this car?? I would love to make them buy it back. Piece of junk!! Makes me never want a GM again. Can't wait to get rid of it after I go after them for to doing what they should have fixed to begin with!! :mad:
  • dmunizdmuniz Member Posts: 39
    I just purchased a 2007 Outlook and before purchasing, vehicle had sunroof leak at deaership. They stated they would fix it and put it on my bill of sale.

    I took it home after they stated the drains just had to be cleaned and now I have leak again plus the DVD Map error.

    I purchased a Lexus service contract so car went back to Lexus dealership I bought it from. Lets see what dealer says about leak.

    Do I have a recourse for the listing the sunroof leak on the bil of sale if they cannot fix it?
  • simone_89simone_89 Member Posts: 5
    Good luck, is all I can say. It's not an issue with dirty gutters. It's a faulty design and they need to replace it. For me it was in the rear and an issue with the flap that opens/closes to keep water in/out (that's basically how it was described to me). I had my gutters cleaned 3 years in a row. Never helped.
  • crazyoutlookcrazyoutlook Member Posts: 6
    It should be stated that it is not only the vehicles with sunroofs that leak. My 07 outlook leaks from the rear view mirror area when we get heavy rain. The water leaks onto the stereo and fills up the console with water. Then when it gets below freezing here in the northwest the water that has leaked into the gear shifter freezes up and makes it impossible to get the vehicle out of park. Add this to the broken lift gate motor, broken sway bar end link, leaking power steering unit, and broken driver seat adjuster. The vehicle only has 50,000 miles on it and is draining the money out of our already lean budget.
  • anglins4anglins4 Member Posts: 7
    I am so happy to find this forum....We have had our 07 Outlook from new and I have loved this car. As everyone knows as soon as you pay it off, it falls apart. At least that's what I thought until reading these posts. We are having A LOT of the same issues. We have taken it in and paid $140 last week for the dealer to tell us "yep, it's leaking from the roof"...Well DUH, we have a puddle of water on the passenger side floor to tell us that! The left headlight goes on and off while driving, my dashboard will be lit sometimes but mostly it's black....I can't even tell how many miles we have on it because the lights are out. The tire pressure monitor is always on and is wrong. We hear the splashing sound above our heads every time we make a turn. The airbags leak on both sides of car. The AC makes a hissing sound and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Dealer says it's working fine! I'm at a loss and don't know what to do. The price given at the dealership is over $600 to fix the leak...over $700 for the headlight, oh, but they are nice enough to credit the $140 we paid last week for them to tell us Yes, it's leaking, back to that! Someone PLEASE tell me how to start a claim about this! We can't afford to repair this or to replace the car!! Any help appreciated!!!
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    anglins4,
    We'd be happy to check into this further for you, although we cannot make any promises up front as to what the results of our inquiry will be. Please email us at socialmedia@gm.com with more details, including your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN and mileage, and a summary of the situation.
    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • wsct1998wsct1998 Member Posts: 3
    I also am part of the 2008 Saturn Outlook issues. It is sad this car is a money pit and GM not standing behind it at all. Obviously it's not rocket science it is clearly a design problem. Every car I have had in the past also has had sunroof's not one of them leaked. Not one!!! The car leaks out the lights inside the back, it smells, it leaks at the emergency brake area it is ridiculous. It causes electrical problems. I call GM because clearly everyone has this problem. Nope not covered. I also brought it up when I too was part f the transmission problem with the shaft. I can not believe how much trouble this car is. I am saddened by how happy I was to get it o find out it is a lemon.
    Clearly this is an extreme manufacturer defect. You start to type it in google and the sentence gets finished for you. That is clearly a problem. Comment after comment same troubles. So what I should put more money out on this car?? I would love to make them buy it back. Piece of junk!! Makes me never want a GM again. Can't wait to get rid of it now problem after problem. :cry: :mad:
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    wsct1998,

    I see that you've already contacted Customer Assistance via phone. Were you issued a Service Request number at all when you called (71-**********)?

    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • thejetzmanthejetzman Member Posts: 2
    anglins4, I wanted to comment on your hissing noise. I have the 2008 Outlook and had this hissing noise on multiple occassions. After multiple times to the dealer and them telling me there was nothing wrong, I had to explain it to the technician over the phone. What it was, was my AC system was under serviced. After actually listening to my complaint, he troubleshot it down to needing to be serviced. I can't explain what he was telling me, but it had to do with a venturi or something like that, that the refrigerant was passing through. They serviced it and the noise was gone, but less than a year later it showed back up. Re-serviced and gone again. Sad to say, the noise is back about a year later, and I am heading back to the dealership to discuss finding the slow leak that they put the blue dye in my system to find. I also believe you do not have a water leak around the airbag, you have a clogged sunroof drain, and the water goes over the edge of the plastic shroud and runs down inside your car. Clear the drain tube, and your problem should go away.
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    thejetzman,
    Sorry to hear that the AC noise came back. Keep us posted on your progress with your dealership as we're available if you should need anything.
    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • ajmoneyajmoney Member Posts: 1
    You have to take it to a sunroof specialist or someone who installs them. That was the only way i got mine fixed completely.
  • anglins4anglins4 Member Posts: 7
    Sarah, how long does it take to hear back from someone at the email address you provide? I sent the email last week and haven't heard anything. The dealer told us we had 30 days from the time we paid to have the diagnostic done to have that money applied to the so called "fix". I have no clue what to do next!! We don't have the money to keep taking this car in! I'm just waiting until we start getting tickets for the headlight like others have said. This is so frustrating!!
  • tallgolftallgolf Member Posts: 8
    Anglins4 et al:

    Want to send a quick reply here - long story, but our 07 Outlook is now entering week 3 at Gm dealer - with full host of electrical water damage - fuse box, wiring harness, ECU, etc... (I had to tell them where to look!) In our experience thus far, dealing with Gm social media will get you NOWHERE. They will reply briefly in email, no phone # ever, and will not even read your email, unfortunately. Our experince with 'sarah' and 'ashley' lead us to believe they are actually not human, and some sort of automated computer response. Though I don't know the specifics of your current situation, my best advice is to go through a Service Manager (not just the Service rep - has to be someone with some decision making ability) at your GM dealer. in our case, though yet unresolved, our service manager had his own contact at GM - wouldn't give a name or # - and had never heard of 'Ashley' or 'Sarah'. Our service manager had to 'build a case' for us, and convince GM to cover the repairs. Will post more here when our issue is resolved, if that happens, but hope that helps in some small way. I am convinced you are wasting your time with GM social media.
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252
    anglins4,

    If you haven't heard back yet I would recommend trying to resend the message. My apologies that we haven't been speedier!

    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • anglins4anglins4 Member Posts: 7
    WOW...Thanks for the heads-up tallgolf.....right after I posted the comment about not hearing from anyone within minutes I got this email.....

    You do only have 30 days to get the work done for the diagnostic to stay current. However, this is something that would normally be covered uner the bumper bumper warranty but it is expired due to both age and mileage on the vehicle. We apologize for the frustrations.

    Brandon
    GM Customer Service

    Funny how convienent it is that it would "normally be covered"! If that's the case WHY are so many other people experiencing the same problems right after getting the vehicle and still can't get it fixed!! I will take your advise tallgolf and see if that will help us....this is just crazy! We are at a loss of what to do. Please keep me updated on your issue....Thanks!
  • tfish30735tfish30735 Member Posts: 1
    I too have a 2007 Saturn Outlook with a leaking moonroof. It leaks down the passenger side A pillar onto the passenger floor. I can replicate the leak with my garden hose when I pour water on the moonroof. Currently, the sunroof can withstand the gardenhose test. I've had the draintube extensions installed and the tubes cleaned out twice and it continues to leak. My dealer is telling me it will cost a minimum of $500 (cost to remove the headliner) to continue to find the source of the leak. I am not willing to pay money for something that isn't fixable. Has anyone tried applying a bead of silicone or similiar water repelling chemical product around the stationary moonroof? I know it won't look the best but I can't afford to trade cars and am more concerned with dryness than appearence.
  • tallgolftallgolf Member Posts: 8
    Hello Outlook owners - couple updates:

    After 5 weeks at GM dealer, got my Outlook back. As described before, they replaced seemingly every electronic component, Fuse box, wiring harness, ECU, etc. Again, to their credit, my local GM dealer went to bat for me with GM and I DID NOT PAY A DIME for this repair (a $3000 + estimate for repair) - I believe largely because I had already paid to have the leak repaired prior -and as we all know, the leak is not fixable. So, just prior this last round of repairs, I too did use some silicone sealant on both the sunroof and the moonroof - and I truly believe this was working - and in my case, it was the moonroof, not the sunroof. So, long story short GM, buy some $7 tubes of silicone and seal the you know what out of the moonroof! (though, I'm sure GM can't 'prescribe' this fix, as that would admit the problem exists, then lawyers get involved, etc..) I basically filled the 'gutter' of the moonroof with the silicone (a 'marine' type sealant) on the first dry day I could.

    After getting the Outlook back, I had absolutely no faith that the problem was permanently solved, in fact the dealer admitted as much - only the broken parts fixed. Sadly, I gave up on GM and traded in the Outlook. Though I believe it is fixed in it's current state, I simply could not drive that car anymore, as there is no real guarantee it wouldn't leak again a year from now.

    Good luck to you all.
  • dmunizdmuniz Member Posts: 39
    I have had my 07 Saturn back from dealer and it looks to be the non ooperational moonroof that is the problem. They took car to sunroof place and resealed the rear moonroof and I have been leak free for a month.

    The dealership covered this so I have no idea on cost.

    Hope this helps anyone.
  • dassarinadassarina Member Posts: 2
    Hello all,

    I really do love my Outlook, but I'm faced with the decision of a possible hefty dealership fix of many issues (that may or may not be related to the leak).

    They believe all of the current problems I am having are from the leaking:

    Parking brake light on when the parking brake isn't on
    service air bag
    engine issues (doesn't turn off when key is removed)
    steering noise
    back hatch won't automatically open.

    They said that leaks aren't covered even if we are under warranty. The service rep even said "you've been bringing this car in since 2010 every 10 months for leaks." Yes, I have and every time I've asked if it will cause greater damage and have always been told "Nah, it's fine."

    The car leaks from:

    The driver and passenger side air bags
    The parking break and same area passenger side
    visors
    inside the front windshield
    the back seat belts

    Any ideas of cost? Do we just start looking for another car? Will the dealership cut me a break since this isn't new?
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