Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

1…197198200202203…473

Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    If the old car isn't being driven, it should be sold. Let someone enjoy it, and do something with the money. Although it is in uncommon condition, it is not going to see appreciation anywhere near the costs of holding onto it.

    There are GLKs in the Hertz, National, and Sixt rental fleets. Maybe you could try one out for a long weekend. They will be gassers, but the insides are identical of course.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Given your relatively LOW yearly (daily driver) miles AND most of those miles being long trips, I think Fintail's recommendation to rent a GLK and take a test "LONG" trip makes a lot of sense.

    So for example, (for us) commuting in a GLK (unless we were R/E professionals or routinely transported clients) makes almost no sense at all when a Civic/ Jetta TDI gets 38-42 mpg , 39 to 44 mpg for 14,000 miles/18,000 miles per year (78% majority percentage of the miles) (We normally go to client sites and the wife transports clients to lunches and events etc.) We do not transport a lot of sales related materials.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Why Gas Prices Are Likely to Keep Rising
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    There are GLKs in the Hertz, National, and Sixt rental fleets. Maybe you could try one out for a long weekend. They will be gassers, but the insides are identical of course

    They are not GLK250's, I rented a GLK350 from National three weeks ago, as I wanted to see what it was like before going and testing a GLK250. I found it comfortable, and easy to drive. But the MPG wasn't all that impressive.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    But for the millions of people that feel they have to commute in a PU or SUV the GLK250 BT is a nice choice. If they are contractors they can safely put their tools in the back. And of course the biggest plus is mid 30s MPG instead of 17 MPG. If you are comfortable driving a small car where you cannot see one car in front of you there are many choices of high mileage vehicles. For the millions of US that don't like that lowdown feeling when driving the options are more limited. There is the mini van option. If you want one with AWD better have a fat wallet. You will spend $35k plus range. And only get about 21 MPG.

    The GLK was up 36.7% for the month of June. I would love to know what percentage were diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    EPA ratings are 19 C/24 H/ 23 C. PUG. What mpg numbers did you post ? (..."But the MPG wasn't all that impressive"...) TMI: did you refuel with PUG?

    So just on the 33 EPA H alone (vs 24) , 38% better fuel mileage (MB GLK 250 Blue tec ) is a HUGE improvement. Whether that is "impressive," is in the eye of the beholder.

    I would posit that the real function of rental car places @ airports (among many others) is to stimulate the local economy. So "BEST" mpg (for the consumer) might be pretty far down on the totem pole. Municipalities/States benefit from higher fuel tax revenues from lower mpg cars. Also I think most car rental place do not want to deal with so called "mis" fueling. I mean folks have issues and complications filling RUG OR PUG. When they are "mis" fueled that way: no mark no foul. Perhaps all that happens is the next guy gets less or better mpg.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Absolutely and positively !

    If I did not already have a Touareg, and were NOW looking for a diesel CUV, I am sure the competiion might be a lot closer between the MB GLK 250 added to the others (I have mention in past posts), even as it is a more apples to oranges comparison.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't get me wrong, I think it is good that millions are saving fuel with Civics, VW TDIs and Prius. I just like to sit upright when driving. I really wanted to buy a 911 and loved driving it. I hated getting out of it. It is a back breaker for me. The GLK, Touareg, Grand Cherokee and ML are all about perfect height for easy ingress and egress. The Sequoia is a bit high for some. Not bad for my legs. No pain in the back getting in and out.

    I think VW is missing a good bet not bringing their Tiguan TDI to the US market. It would give the GLK some competition and the X3 that is supposedly about to get a diesel option.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Oh no, I didn't get (take) you wrong.

    I would agree about the (lack of) Tiquan TDI's. It would trump the GLK TDI on one BIG metric: price (sub 40k vs sub 26k) . It would probably be peripherally competitive also. It would only be a "slight"(uninformed consumers take) stretch as VW offers TDI's in a lot of their line ANYWAY, I.E., TDI's: Passat, Jetta, JSW, Golf, NB, Touareg.
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    the GLK250 BT is a nice choice. If they are contractors they can safely put their tools in the back.

    Say what? Did I hear you correctly, you're going to carry tools in the back of a Mercedes?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Assuming VW chooses the same 2.0L TDI used in their EU version. It is still shy of the 369 ft lbs of torque offered in the GLK. I think that rating for the VW GTD engine is 280 ft lbs.

    The new X3 20D has 184 HP and 280 ft lbs of torque. A good matchup for the Tiquan TDI. Not really in the same league as the Mercedes. Though BMW claims 42-47 MPG on the highway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Yep, like I said, the rentals will be gassers. I am unaware of any diesel rental cars in the entire American and Canadian rental fleet. Probably too much risk of a dumb customer messing it up.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Say what? Did I hear you correctly, you're going to carry tools in the back of a Mercedes?

    Absolutely. My wife's nephew uses his GLK350 as a work vehicle. He does glazing and caulking. When he told me how much he liked it l decided to give them a shot. Then my research showed me they are now offered in diesel. I personally think they are not that attractive. But they are nice to drive and the mileage is very hard to beat. I don't think you can find anything comparable.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Actually there is a company in Hawaii that runs a fleet of rental beetle TDIs on 100% biodiesel.

    http://www.bio-beetle.com/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Oh yeah, a specialty fleet. That's cool. I meant like the general line at Budget or similar - you just know gasoline would end up in the tank somehow.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I doubt anyone ever uses a whole tank of bio diesel on Maui. It is also the home of Pacific Biodiesel. They have written the book on making diesel from waste cooking oil. If they are smart they would insist on supplying all the fuel for their rentals.

    Pacific Biodiesel also set up a refinery for Kettle Chips in Oregon. They have a fleet of beetles running on bio fuel. 50 miles on every 7600 bags of chips.

    http://www.kettlebrand.com/about_us/sustainability/

    Willie bio diesel is also an offspring of the Maui biodiesel operation.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    According to the salesman at a VW dealer here the best quotes come from USAA. They will accept them. Better than Costco pricing. I think USAA uses TrueCar. I know the quote I got and the dealer verified it was 12.37% below MSRP on a VW Touareg TDI Lux.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "In the last three years we have had the highest diesel [fuel] prices on record and the highest differential between diesel and gasoline on record," Schaeffer says. "We've also had a very tight economy."

    Despite all that, consumers today are buying more diesel cars than ever before."

    Buying a Diesel Car Gets Easier as Selection Grows
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Just a snap shot (today, corner store: resort town)

    RUG $3.89
    PUG $4.09
    ULSD $3.89

    So using fuelly.com for 2012 VW Touareg 18.8 and A MDX 21.7 PUG and Touareg TDI 24.8 ULSD, we get per mile driven costs (respectively): 21.8 cents, 18.8 cents and 15.7 cents
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I was on the road and filled up with RUG for $3.79 this afternoon. Otherwise I would have to had paid $3.89 at home. The buck or so I saved paid for the coffee I got.

    I'll try to remember to check diesel tomorrow - I bet our numbers are right in line with yours.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,789
    Wow! Not here. RUG is ~ 3.95, and ULSD is always $0.40 higher.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Prices are different currently the ave price of RUG here in PHX is $3.51/g and ULSD is $3.65/g

    Does anyone play the fuel bonus points at the local grocery store/fuel station? Last night I was about to purchase RUG at $2.51/g (up to 35 gallons.)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    No. Some grocery stores give some cents off a gal. Then 2 to 5% off on sponsoring credit cards.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    edited July 2013
    sometimes the bonus points/rebates are only good for *gasoline* purchases !

    in shopping news, i think the diesel vehicle I really need is a 2007 Benz GL Bluetec . Or 2007 Benz R-class bluetec .
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    So are there many of either and/ or both of those diesels on the markets?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Remembered to check. :shades:

    RUG is still $3.89.

    Diesel is (drumroll....):

    $3.87.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    While visiting with MB dealer the R diesel came up. He said they are one of the hottest used vehicles. There is a cult like following. Personally I don't like the looks. GL seems more practical.

    VW dealer called this morning. Offered to match the USAA price on the Touareg TDI Lux and finance for 60 months with no down and 0% financing. I am so tempted to go for it.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2013
    Aren't they gone as of 2012?

    There's a spat over in the VW board about whether "all" diesels are turbos or not. So I made a list. Seems like more of a shopping list to see what options are currently available (we say there's 29 diesels available, but I figure there's a few pickups in there that aren't showing up in the Car Finder list under the New Cars tab).

    I'm curious to see how many I missed (I did gloss over the various trims in pickups - I doubt the diesel engines are different between a crew cab vs an extended cab).

    For a little easier readability perhaps, I'll still the list in the next post.

    And don't ask me what the difference is between a turbocharged diesel and a turbo diesel is LOL.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2013
    2013 Audi A3 Diesel - 2.0L 4-cyl. Turbo Diesel

    2014 Audi A6 Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2014 Audi A7 Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2014 Audi A8 Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2014 Audi Q5 Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2014 Audi Q7 Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2013 BMW X5 Diesel - 3.0L 6-cyl. Turbo Diesel

    2014 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel - 2.0L 4-cyl. Turbo Diesel

    2013 Chevrolet Express Cargo Diesel - 6.6-liter turbodiesel V8

    2013 Chevrolet Express Diesel - 6.6-liter turbodiesel V8

    2013 Ford F-250 Super Duty - 6.7-liter turbodiesel V8

    2013 Ford F-350 Super Duty Crew Cab - turbocharged 6.7-liter diesel V8

    2013 Ford F-450 Super Duty Crew Cab - 6.7-liter turbodiesel V8

    2013 GMC Savana Cargo Diesel - GMC 6.6-liter turbodiesel V8

    2013 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab - 6.6-liter turbodiesel V8

    GMC Sierra 3500HD Crew Cab - 6.6-liter turbodiesel V8

    2013 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Diesel - 3.0-liter V6 turbodiesel

    2013 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2013 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class SUV - 3.0-liter diesel V6

    2013 Mercedes-Benz GLK-Class Diesel - 2.1L 4-cyl. Turbo Diesel

    2013 Mercedes-Benz M-Class Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2012 Mercedes-Benz R-Class Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2013 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    2013 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Van - turbocharged 3.0-liter diesel V6

    2014 Porsche Cayenne Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel (or turbocharged 4.8-liter V8 for the Turbo S)

    2013 Ram 2500 Crew Cab - 6.7-liter turbodiesel inline-6

    2013 Ram 3500 Mega Cab - 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel inline-6

    2014 Ram Promaster Cargo Van - 3.0L 4-cyl. Diesel (a Fiat-sourced 3.0-liter turbodiesel I-4 per MotorTrend.com)

    2013 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible Diesel - 2.0-liter turbodiesel

    2013 Volkswagen Beetle Diesel - turbocharged 2.0-liter diesel

    2013 Volkswagen Golf Diesel - turbocharged 2.0-liter diesel inline-4

    2013 Volkswagen Jetta Diesel - turbocharged 2.0-liter diesel inline-4

    2013 Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen Diesel - 2.0L 4-cyl. Turbo Diesel

    2013 Volkswagen Passat Diesel - 2.0L 4-cyl. Turbo Diesel

    2013 Volkswagen Touareg Diesel - 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel

    (Additions and corrections gratefully appreciated)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    There's a spat over in the VW board about whether "all" diesels are turbos or not.

    Does anyone really believe that there are still naturally-aspirated diesel engines being put into highway vehicles, or off-road either, for that matter?

    Interesting.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Indeed. Usually the discussion is around whether or not it has one or two turbos and the merits. ;) Two examples of twin turbo diesels: BMW 335 D, MB GLK 250 Blue Tec.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2013
    Beats me.

    I admit the Cayenne Turbo S turbocharged turbodiesel made me go huh? :shades:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    It might be a misprint, referring to the new 2014 GASSER ( 550 hp ) A 550 hp TDI turbo, (x 2) using current ratios would put out close to 930 # ft of torque !!!!!!!!!

    A 550 hp gasser would put out under the torque capacity of the 8 speed transmission (627 # ft)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2013
    It's probably just me misreading the review and specs. We do say "The two Turbo variants are just plumb crazy." :D
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    It would seem the 2014 TDI reads 240 hp @ 406 # ft.. By omission, it is a single turbo, not a twin Turbo. Standard is the 8 speed A/T, aka, tiptronic with no other transmission options.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    If you are ever going to buy one, it looks like now is the time. On this deal, what would the final price be?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Touareg I am looking at has an MSRP of $55,170. USAA has a price for that vehicle of $48,304. Not sure what tax, title and license will be. When he called me he said he would accept the USAA pricing with $0 down and 0% interest for 60 months. I will also find out what the lease will be. With his earlier quote I am guessing about it would be $619 per month for 39 months. Payments would be $805 a month for 5 years if I pick up TTL up front. I think it is probably as good as I will get for a VW Touareg TDI Lux. It is the same vehicle I took a long test drive in about 3 weeks ago. He told me they are not fast movers and I would say he was telling the truth.

    The MB ML350 Bluetecs are selling better and the dealers are not so anxious to make good deals. Unlike the GLK250 BT which seem to have about the same discounts as the Touareg.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    In the case of the Touareg, what you say are TRULY TWO of its' market advantages. I am sure that if you look carefully @ the ML 350 (similarly equipped) it will costs thousands, if not @ least $10k MORE. For the greater audience, this MB is a competitor in the Touareg's space. This is not even to mention that MB has not offered ZERO down and ZERO percentage. Needless to say any percentage over ZERO will be another premium, in comparison. Of course, the more long term question is which car delivers higher % RESALE value.? My research tends to point toward VW T TDI.

    The GLK 250 is really not a competitor with the Touareg, except maybe on pricing. Right now it seems that EVERY MB GLK 250 in inventory are loaded with any array or combination of options. This has the effect of making any MSRP much higher than the standard accessories @$ 38,590. Indeed the one I test drove was app 52k and they were dealing @ app 48k +. Another is if you like any other color (of 12) than black, white and red, the minimum bump is $720.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You are correct. The ML350 Bluetec comparably equipped has a TMV right at $10,000 higher. And no special financing has been offered. As you noted the GLK is not in the same league as the Touareg or ML. Yet nicely equipped would be about the same as what I can buy the VW for. And not insignificant is the fact that the VW NAV and electronic package are more advanced by quite a lot. And I did not include the free service offered by VW for 3 years.

    I think if I can beat the dealer down to my price on a 39 month lease we will have a done deal. My wife and I both agree we will probably want something new after the lease is up. We should have considered it on the Sequoia and would be far ahead over paying cash.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed that is really true. I think that is one of the utilities of speaking "COST Per Mile Drive". Some of the lease terms are almost becoming as complicated as any gov agency can put out.

    To me however, it should be as complicated and simple as monthly payment/ monthly miles driven (max) = cost per mile driven: lease.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here is our thinking. By 3 years we were tired of the Sequoia. Lousy gas mileage and lousy NAV, CD player. No XSirius etc, etc. We bought it cash so felt stuck with it. If her grand daughter with a growing family and several trips a year to Tahoe had not asked about buying, we would probably continue to live with it. She wants it and wife told her trade-in price with payments of course no interest. It is family. Also found out in CA if you sell to relative NOT a sibling, there is no tax on transfer. So she gets rid of her 15 year old 5 passenger 4Runner with only 2WD that gets 15 MPG and gets a larger 7 passenger 4X4 that gets 15 MPG, with a heck of a lot more luxury.

    Win, win, I get rid of the Sequoia and my choice of replacement.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Truly it is all good. In effect, that is what we have done with any number of cars. While I do not sign agreements, I just casually to more pointedly, point out that whatever they save in monthly car payments, they should be saving. (actually putting it away, in your GD's case, put away the interest)

    For you both it actually makes sense to do a lease, (I am sure you have probably run the real numbers) given sub 6,000 miles per year/ 500 miles mo. If the monthly allowable lease miles are 1000 miles, then another premium are the 500 miles per month that you do NOT do. Naturally if a down is required, that needs to be worked into the equation.

    This is a very old example but illustrates the point. I used a 1987 TLC truck in several businesses (most do not have businesses, so I will not go there- implications are MUCH better than what I will illustrate, IRS sec 179) .

    Upshot: $16,000 dollars, 250,000 miles, sold for $9,000 = loss of - minus $7,000 or -44%. So the cost of ownership- depreciation, (- $7,000/250,000 miles=) more technically was $ .028 cents per mile driven.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am sure if we buy the diesel SUV the PU truck will be parked more of the time. 25-30 MPG is far better than 16-17 MPG. I would be surprised if it ends up more than 12k per year.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    Needless to say fuel SAVINGS will be app 994 gals or 43%. $'s @ $102 per mo (SAVED) not hard to take either.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I like that. I can use that to lower the lease per month. I won't miss waiting in line for gas at Costco. My local Shell is always more competitive on diesel than gas.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    From what I have come to know and read over this thread, I think you will get even BETTER mpg with the Touareg than I, both situational and longer term average.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    To add to the broader diesel discussion, I can easily get between 33 to 39 mpg CONSISTENTLY (I can see folks now rolling their eyes, or for some, shouting BS) . I do not, as I have been defacto reporting. In effect, I chose to run the TDI at its optimum and optimal levels, as much as I can.

    Now, since the most likely scenarios are you keeping the vehicle 39 mo's (3.25 years) and app 39,000 miles, it is really your (anybody's) choice how it is run. Miles UP to that (starting at 35,000 miles) and beyond, it is easy to swag you will probably not care very much.

    Indeed optimum mpg really does not happen (full compression) till app 30,000 miles (if broken in slightly to semi aggressively) to 60,000 miles if "babied" to slightly aggressively) . There will be a good chance you will not experience optimum mpg during your term of ownership !! As a sidebar: from 31,000 to 60,000 miles I can probably now expect even slightly better mpg (app 1 to 2 mpg) as the other TDI's have historically done.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Some grocery stores have fuel bonus points you can earn, up to $1/gallon up to 35 gallons. There are some easy tricks to get the $1 off gallon.. Fry's (Krogers) and Safeway are two of the easiest stores to do this.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I drove 443 miles and averages 21mpg (75% on the highway), what is interesting is the following week I rented a Ford Escape limited with 22 miles on it, it had the 1.6l turbo engine, and I averaged 23mpg. IF the GLK250 would average say 30, I would be happy, but one has to wonder if MB would retune the engine to make 180hp and less torque would the engine get better MPG?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2013
    If one is ultimately intersted in a MB, specifically GLK 250 Blue TEC, why wonder? I am sure if one roots around one can find those that do and will specialize in MB "CHIP" tuning. I do have to say most (users/customers) chip for INCREASED HP/Torque and specific performance parameters, mpg falls where it might. The code sentence here is: "IF I don't get on it, fuel mileage is same to slightly better." But hey, tuning for max mpg can be a performance parameter in and of itself.

    Off topic and probably TMI: my 03 Jetta is (VAG.com) tuned more toward performance, even as it is bone stock. But even @ 185,000+ it has no issues posting 50 mpg. It can easily post 59 mpg, if I keep @ 75 mph with occasional bursts to 85 mph. ;)
This discussion has been closed.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles