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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Not so hard on older cars but on modern ones there isn't much room back their and two hours to remove then two more hours to replace sounds about right. You can't disassemble a modern fuel tank to wipe it so I bet they are going to pump some diesel into it in order to clean out any left over gas. When land Rover had gas tank recalls four years ago the book time to do the whole job was about four hours. After a tech did a few of them they could finish the job in less then four hours but not much less. Draining a full tank of fuel takes a long time too.
You could argue the diagnoses charge is BS as you know what is wrong with the car.
Just by reading the rest of your posts I bet you are also getting an additional convenience charge at the dealership. If you are overreacting there like you are here and yelling, typing in all caps is yelling online if you didn't know, then I bet they are are bumping your bill for having to put up with you. They know they have you over a barrel as the truck is already in their shop and you can't drive it to take it some where else. Sure you could hire a tow truck to move it but that is going to cost you a couple hundred bucks. Try acting a bit more reasonable and see where that gets you.
One more Edit
In reference to the fuel service in the UK you do realize that 199 GBP is over 400 dollars USD right? The UK service probably has some special tools that allow them to do the job faster and with more automation. Obviously if it only takes then 45 minutes then they do have some procedural or technological advantage.
Knock out the bogus diagnosis charge and you are under 700 bucks which isn't so far off 400 currency adjusted considering the larger time the MB dealer will take to fix the problem.
Blutec is the emissions system required to pass the EPA test for NoX in the USA. Has nothing to do with the diesel engines not running well on RUG. Most of the world has the same Mercedes diesel engine without all the Blutec crap.
Having owned diesels exclusively for the last 13+ years, I stick with stations that do see a lot of heavy-truck traffic. Not because I'm playing "wannabe big-rig driver", but because the fuel is much fresher at a high-turnover station. The neighborhood station with a diesel pump that only sees an occasional Benz or VW likely has had the fuel in the storage tank way too long and algae is forming.
And when something does go wrong, even minor, the truckers are there to help. I was pulling into one of my usual stations to tank up a few years back and I ran bone dry 100 feet from the pump. There were about 3 semis and a dump truck there, and the drivers didn't hesitate to help push my Ram dually up to the pump when it was my turn - kind of a "we've all been there" thing. And since that was my older 96 with the mechanical engine and fuel system, they helped push me off to the side once I was full so I could pump the fuel up to the engine (those Rams had to be manually pumped if you ran dry, and it took a while to get the fuel from the tank to the fuel pump alongside the engine).
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
That takes a chunk out of diesel efficiency - suddenly that diesel that gets 42mpg on the highway is now getting an effective 34-38 MPG- you're never going to make up the difference in price of the vehicle with such a slim margin to the gas vehicles.
The only way you'll be happy is having two identical vehicles; one diesel and one gasser, and drive each when the fuel price is (apparently) most advantageous.
No, I know that's not sensible, or serious, but sometimes we just need to make a decision. Life seldom hands us clear-cut choices and it's all about compromise. Decide what's important to you and go for it. We're a long time dead and we shouldn't spend our precious years saying; "What if............?" on topics that aren't life-changing.
Just some thoughts from an old Brit duffer.
Trouble is, my local dealer (J.E.) are the initials in Marietta loves to charge over list and won't deal on them. The fact this dealer tried to rip me off on a lease once before makes me loathe to buy into the brand.
The amazing thing, their sister shop in Atlanta and even a Mazda under the same JE brand both are many times more professional and willing to deal.
There are two major pluses that make diesel vehicles preferable. Driving pleasure with a small diesel engine and long range. Being able to cruise at 70 MPH up and down hill without down shifting makes for a much better driving experience. Having 700 mile plus range in your tank is the other. Even when diesel peaked at near $5 per gallon last year it was a better cost ratio over a comparable gas version of the same vehicle.
From an old duffer that hates the screaming sound a small gas engine makes trying to keep up with traffic on long uphill highways.
If you're the type who trades in every two years, the diesel version of a given model will be worth more than the gasser, to the extent that in most cases the higher resale more than offsets the initial price differential. Fuel savings is just icing on the cake. I checked this out on many vehicles from VW Golfs and Jettas to Jeep Libertys and GCs to full size pickups. It is almost universally true, when compared to the most similar gasser variant (in the case of an SUV or truck, I compared similar tow ratings).
If you're the type that keeps them 10 years / 300,000 miles, then realize you'll be buying the gasser 1.5 times or twice as often... that's expensive.
The refueling range on diesels is amazing, but if you're not saving any money, and you're driving complicated new technology to do it, I'm not sure it's worth it.
I agree that chasing low emissions (and likely MPG) probably follows something along the 80/20 rule. And that when you get to a certain point, the cost (up front and ongoing) to improve a tiny amount is astronomical.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I am pretty sure that the NJ law does not apply to diesel.... I can pump diesel into my TDI in NJ all I want.
Actually, I would be afraid that the NJ pump-boy would put gasoline in my TDI
The vehicle shuts down and will not run until adblue is in the tank. That was a compromise the Germans made with the wonks at CARB that set the emissions standards for the whole country. The EPA are just yes men to California Air Resources Board. I believe all the vehicles stuck with that goofy system get free refills for the period of the warranty.
If I were to buy a Diesel Mercedes, I would get a used one prior to the blutec engine. Our tax dollars have paid to develop a much better system and it is only being used in other countries.
Urea plays an important role in the metabolism of nitrogen-containing compounds by animals, and is the main nitrogen-containing substance in the urine of mammals.wiki
Seems that I read it is about 20% Urea in a water base.
The BlueTec system, for example, injects water-based urea solution into the exhaust system. The ammonia produced by decomposition of the urea reacts with the nitrogen oxide emissions and is converted into nitrogen and water within the catalytic converter.
Mazda’s latest four-wheel-drive likes a wee drink.
The Mazda CX-7 uses a special man-made liquid similar to human urine to reduce emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx). The compound, called AdBlue, is a mixture of roughly one-third pure urea and two-thirds demineralised water.
It is already widely used in the trucking industry in Europe and Australia and is common in diesel cars in Europe, but Mazda is the first to use the technology on a passenger vehicle in Australia.
The technology, called selective catalyst reduction, involves injecting the urea-based liquid into the car’s exhaust system to turn NOx emissions into harmless nitrogen and water.
http://www.theage.com.au/drive/motor-news/the-car-that-uses-urine-to-save-the-pl- anet-20091014-gwiy.html
Mercedes GLK220CDI or C220CDI
BMW X3 2.0d or 320d
Best next thing is VW, they have the 4cylinder diesel market cornered with the Golf and Jetta.
PS
The GLK CDI is also a good choice along with the Q5 with 2.0L TDI
Apparently they have decided they need to sell 10K per year to break even on the investment necessary to make their diesel emissions-compliant. But they have another problem, similar to the one Honda had: currently their global diesel is manual-trans-only, and of course they have to have an automatic available for the soft Americans, or they will never hit their sales targets....
Since Mazda and VW sales are on the same order of magnitude, it seems like Mazda could probably sell small diesel models profitably here, since VW seems to be able to. But in their home market, there is a lot of pressure to be offering three kinds of hybrids and all-electrics as well, so their diesel program wouldn't serve them that well at home.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That and the awd system in the Tiguan can't handle the torque the TDI puts out.
I really have no problem driving my gas guzzler Sequoia as long as the EPA has their head up you know where. For those of US that would like to use less fossil fuel, we are constantly blocked by the Federal Government.
Tiguan TDI 4motion
In 2009 with literally multiple decades of atempted "attitude" adjustment, good mpg cars (usually compact and even most mpg figures are.... poor ) are only less than 25% of the passenger vehicle fleet.
The other 75% of the passenger fleet are cars that get so called LESS mpg !! Even with the current 27 mpg so called "standards," the real or defacto figures are between 18-22 mpg, if lucky, (aka WILDLY optimistic) . With SUV's being 12% of the population, folks who buy them are REALLY only complying with the Fed.Gov's (REAL) policy. The overwhelming majority of the fleet are gasoline. This is so even when diesel is acknowledged to be anywhere from 20-40% better ! Indeed it would be a very easy case to make, that the recent domestic auto industry debacle was due to folks NOT following the Fed.Gov policy !!!! (aka NOT buying LESS mpg vehicles like... SUV's !!
I am sure you would agree, but it is difficult to buy more diesels when MORE diesels are not on the market.
What does your SUV get.... 18 mpg ? Would you have bought a diesel Sequoia if it got 20-40 % better mph? (21.6 to 25.2) Probably the most germane question would be it was an available DIESEL option? Seems to have worked with the Jetta diesel. The IRS even gave the Jetta TDI a tax credit of $1,300!
It all adds up to an EPA that is controlled by the oil companies. Gasoline started out as a waste product of the refining process and continues to this day. So why not get the masses to use it?
Again, what part of MASSIVE won't diesel deny 'ers acknowledge / understand? If I may also mention, the 35 mpg (almost) meets the small car definition of the new upcoming 2012 standards of 35.5 mpg !!
The Jetta's 03 VW TDI vs the 09 VW TDI is a demonstration in "regulatory" speak. As vilified as TDI's were WAY back in 2003 ( :P ) Both are/were/continue to be... 50 state legal. The 03 (EPA 42/49) gets a range of 44 to 62 mpg and during a point a to b commute gets 48-52 mpg. . The 09 (EPA 29-30/40) gets a (SHORTER) range of 39-47 mpg and during the same point a to b commute gets 39-47 mpg. Either obviously exceeds the "old/current standard" of 27 mpg and the 2012, 35.5 mpg. ( both of course can be hypermiled to achieve... more)
While slow to take hold www.edmunds.com does show 39 vehicles with the diesel option.
Eventually, diesels or no, hybrids or no, one of the greatest and cheapest gains in fuel economy we can achieve will be by slowing down these cars and trucks. Nobody needs to hit 60 mph in 7 seconds in a 5000-pound SUV like Gary's Sequoia. Nor do they in the average family sedan.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I would be willing to downsize to an Audi A4 Allroad Quattro TDI if they were sold here. They get over 40 MPG on the highway. That is as small as I will go for taking vacations. Too much stuff for an A3 or any other econobox sized vehicle. It would be nice to get 50+ MPG without sacrificing handling. The A3 also has a clearance problem for me as does the Jetta and Golf.
Sadly the only A4 Allroad TDI we will probably get has the same 3.0L engine that is being sold in the Q7. It will make the speed freaks happy in the US. 0-62 MPH in 6.4 seconds.
That means me!
Lol, I'd love that or an A6 Avant TDI.
There are several duplicate listings for the same vehicle showing an 09' and a 2010.
For 2010 there are only 7 car options;
Audi A3 wagon, BMW 335d sedan, Mercedes R class, VW Jetta sedan & wagon, and Golf two door & four door.
And 5 SUVs for 2010;
Audi Q7, BMW X5, Mercedes ML & GL, & VW Touareq.
Bring on the Mercedes C250CDI & GLK250CDI, BMW 320d, and Mini diesel please.
I used to think that myself... till I drove in some parts of Pennsylvania. Some of their highways have traffic moving at 65+ MPH and there is NO ONRAMP .... you must start from a stop sign and need to get up to speed ahead of that 18-wheeler which is coming up fast. (I70 near New Stanton)
My 1.9L TDI just barely makes it wth FULL THROTTLE accelleration and tactful gearshifts. Dont get me wrong, my TDI likes to accellerate like that and I would not trade it for anything that gets less than 50MPG average.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I remember when I owned a 1970 Simca 1204 (aka 1100 in Europe), I did a lot of driving on interstates in PA, NY, and in the Chicago area. All with a 1.2 litre 60HP engine and a 4-speed manual gearbox. It would cruise at 75 all day long without a whimper and deliver 35MPG+.
Smart driving techniques kept me alive with that vehicle; the same as literally hundreds of thousands of drivers across the country driving underpowered 36 to 50HP VW bugs on the freeways. It can be done, you just have to know the limits and change your driving style.
However I would change NONE of the latest VW's, ( 03/09 TDI's) for circa 1970's VW "BUG's" nor the NHTSA accident fatality back drops of the times. While anybody can google the figures for those time periods. The graphic of BLOOD ALLEY vs the LATEST lowest fatality (accident also ) rates in NHTSA record history sure beats it !! While one would be tempted to pine for the "good ole days", the fact of the matter: ... THESE are the good ole days !
Also, the wankle-cycle engines with the 15,000 RPM redline sounded sweeet and made lots of power/weight. Now, even 2-cycle diesles are hard to find.
At least my push lawnmower is 2-cycle and I have a tripple-cylinder motorcycle in the basement 8-)