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Comments
PS
The diesel Smart is still sold in the UK and is rated 85 MPG combined UK mileage.
Scott
So your average (US audience) is 52.3 mpg with a best of 67.2 in a Smart CDI. Speed ranges are between 62, 68.4, 74.56 mph.
It sounds like you have a Robert Bosch DSG, aka direct shift gearbox.
It also would be interesting to know (in the above context) what the rpm 's are at 62, 68.4, 74.56 mph.
Premium gas Smarts only sold in Canada now. No idea of the trans. I thought it was a cvt but never having been in one...
Fair number of Pious's (love that take on the name) in Victoria and LOTS of Smarts. Popular commuter car here and yes, Victoria is a beautiful spot to live.
It is especially goofy to dlute ULSD as the ppm sulfur is WAY lower than RUG to PUG. Burning of the dilution is not only more consumptive but more pollutive. I think they just want the long haul truckers to consume more for extra perceived revenue.
As you probably know the RUG to PUG's catalytic converter is NOT designed to mitigate the (now) up to 15% winterrized ethanol blended fuel.This means there is actually MORE pollution than with RUG to PUG alone. But alone with that comes more consumption aka more revenue !!! Well someones got to do it, ... eh?
Actually no, the DSG you're referring to is an Automatic transmission in every sense of the word. That said, it is an Automated mechanical gearbox (as opposed to a hydraulic torque converter fed gearbox) with a semi-automatic mode. The English language is very specific in cases like this; the only transmissions that can truly be called "Manual Transmissions" are those with an "H" pattern shifter and a clutch pedal under the dash.
This, in turn, causes many people to associate their H-pattern transmissions with a similar-looking racing chassis since they both come with 'manual' transmissions.
Which, ironically, isn't the case. Everything from C6.Rs to RSRs use a sequential manual on the track.
So, I just did a quick survey of what is "officially" in various race cars and found that not even one racing formula or set of homologation rules indicates their cars use "sequential-manual" transmission. What I did find were terms like, "paddle shifted semi-automatic gearboxes", Formula One can be used as a prime example where the official language is: "Formula One cars use semi-automatic sequential gearboxes."
Long story short, I submit that if you can actually find a racing organization that states they use "sequential-manual" gearboxes (and no clutch), you'll have found a needle in a haystack.
I did another survey of vehicle manufacturers and the language they use to describe their automated transmissions:
Porsche: "map-controlled multi-disc clutch transmission"
Ferrari: "F1-SuperFast semi-automatic with an Automatic Mode"
McLaren: "a unique 7-Speed dual clutch Seamless Shift Gearbox (SSG)"
Audi: "Six-Speed S-tronic automatic transmission"
"...and the transmission defaults to manual shifting not auto..."
What it defaults to is "semi-automatic" mode not "manual shifting".
2011 Volkswagen Touareg TDI has a very good transmission system. This is 8-speed automatic with manumitted shifting. With a subtle shift, it makes very easy to drive.
They go on to say the same as most that test drive this new vehicle:
We really liked this car. In addition, this car also has a front-engine with a DOHC 24-valve turbocharged and intercooled diesel V-6, aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection. This produces power of 225 bhp @ 4000 rpm. Smooth eight-speed automatic, quiet at any speed, agile by class standards the main attraction of this car.
2011 VW Touareg TDI
Did I mention the Touaregs won 1-2-3 overall at the 2011 Dakar, the most grueling race on earth. Even the BMW X5s could not beat them with their factory team.
73 lb-ft @1800-2800rpm
Redline is I beileve 4300rpm
At 62 in 6th gear it is 2200 rpm about 2300 at 68 and about 2400 at 75. The car is happiest in the 1900- 2400 range.
BTW Gary is correct about the milage some people in Vancouver get. It seems that Vancouver is the best place in Canada to own a diesel smart due to it's milder climate
As for winter affecting milage, it does seem to a bit, but this is due as much to winter fuel and snow tires as anything else, it is about a drop of .2 l/hkm. Also I find that strong headwinds ( I drive on the west coast of lake ontario everyday and it does get quite windy at times) affects the milage significantly. For me as long as I can get two days commute from my tank I am happy (440km on 20litres or so (so 273 miles on about 5 gallons or around 52.5 mpg). As my commute is not straight highway (and I don't drive for max economy obviously) I don't get the incredible milage that others can. That said I think that 20-25$ (at our current price of$1.30/l ) for two days of the driving I do is pretty good, for comparision when I started this job I used my Mazda3 for a few weeks and it used double the fuel.
I don't doubt that a VW tdi might get close to the same milage, but up here to get one the age and with as low kms on it as the smart I would have paid more than double the price and still would have had a bit worse milage. The car has been very reliable for me to date.
Also about the golf thing, if you are going solo no problem just fold the pass seat down, otrwise you might need to get the rack for the back of the car and strap your golf bags on it.
In any case the car is not for everyone, but it is ideal for what I am using it for, and I would never buy the gas version as you are not getting the fuel savings for the sacrifice in size etc. I do intend to try to do a bit more conservative driving and seeing what I can get for milage, I know people can get much closer to 400 miles for a tank, but they are in areas ( like Vancouver) where the typical speed range on the highways is 80-90 km/hr. Which seems to be where the diesel smart gives the best milage ( it isn't the most aerodynamic car after all ). If I treid to drive that slow on the highway portion of my drive I would be run off the road, so I doubt I will obtain quite that much of a change but hopefully will get closer to it during the nicer weather.
Scott
This might be a more arcane point/issue, but passenger car diesels (for a long time and currently) are really best with 6 speed manual transmissions. So since upwards of 90% of European cars are M/T's and where upwards of 50% are diesel: I would swag most diesels in that market are manual transmissions, and probably with the same distributions.
It also goes without saying, almost the reverse is true in American markets, upwards of 80% of the passenger vehicle fleet is (slushbox) automatic and some swag and GROWING. The "race" for better American mpg (more like watching 2 snails sprint) has highlighted the inherent disadvantages of the ubiquitious (slushbox) automatic. This has largely gone ignored or unnoticed by the American markets. This of course has given rise to alternatives (much much smaller populations), CVT, for some, a renewed interest in manual transmissions and for the purposes of the central issue, the DSG. (mated to a cdi, TDI, etc.)
So I think in your case, you would have almost been totally disappointed with a slush box (automatic). This of course would probably have dialed out the smart car option Given you didn''t select a 6 speed manual transmission, I would swag you would not be real happy with the manual. Again despite the reality and rumor of its technical and durability issues, the so called "DSG" is pretty much destined to have a greater share of the automatic transmission markets.
There are very few oems that have done automatics well (mated to a TDI) Two that come to mind that have done well are MB E320, BMW 335 D. Both in the states anyway are automatic only.
One thing that caught my (discriminating) eye when I looked under the rear of one years ago was how prone to damage the oil filter and/or transmission gear bits were, if backing up somewhere and something was sticking up like a frozen block of ice or even one of those low profile curbs. I'm mentioning it only in case you hadn't noticed.
Sam
Incidently, (while I appreciate the finer points of your discussions and arguments) the operative thing: one has a clutch pedal and one doesn't.
I would like my next car to be more than sole purpose, the smart is great for what it is, but in the end a car that gets great milage and has room for a bit more stuff (or occasionally more than one passenger) would be nice too. In fact what I would really like is a small car with diesel and AWD for year round use, preferable with a manual transmission and as few electronic gizmos as possible, so that it would last as long as possible. For now I will stick with the smart, put the top down now that the weather is getting better and enjoy
Scott
I have not read in passing what they are for the latest Jetta/JSW/Golf TDI's, but the 03 TDI European/American is a prime example. The most graphic:
1. Euro 6 speed manual, American 5 speed manual
2. bigger injectors European (.205) smaller American (.184)
3. More power European 100 hp, less power American 90 hp
4. (torque values also)
5. the surprising one of course European gets 2 mpg BETTER than the American version. So instead of a range of 44 to 62 mpg that I have gotten (little to no effort I probably should not admit) It would have easily been 46 to 64 mpg.
Sorry, but the English language is NOT clear on these things, as languages take into account conventions and commonly used phrases.
Just because 'manual' should mean clutched and 'automatic' should mean without, does NOT mean that 'clutchless manual' can't mean something entirely different. Definitions include commonly perceived or used phrases, and that's just how it is.
BMW has, up until today, still referred to this type of transmission as a "Sequential Manual." And even though you do have me on Porsche and others, all I can give is my testimony that only a few years ago, I visited the same page and they listed it as a '6 speed manual with sequential shifting'. It used to take tremendous effort to prove to the sports car purists that their H-pattern was no longer used in the race car versions. You used to see comments about the RSR like "at least it comes with a manual like my car!" No joke.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/technology_guide/articles/seven_sp- - - - - eed_smg_drivelogic.html?source=categories&article=seven_speed_smg_drivelogic%20b- - - - - mw%20smg
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:EbVS06Sd-X8J:www.caranddriv- - - - - er.com/reviews/car/10q2/bmw_m3_gt_race_car-feature_test+bmw+m3+gt+sequential+man- - - - - ual&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
Don't blame me for the convention existing. I agree it doesn't make sense, and many automakers are recognizing it, and changing the term. But it DOES exist, in cars. And I think the only reason BMW is the only one to use the convention as their trademark, is because the won the trademark for that term. The rest of them invented R-tronic, F1, etc terms to mean what BMW (and the rest used to) call... an SMG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_manual_transmission
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydraulic_manual_transmission
It does indeed make little 'sense' to call these 'manuals', but what is sense and what simply is, are not clear-cut. All it takes is one example to prove that the 'English language' does not explain all automotive conventions.
I agree that the racing organizations are trying to be more clear to avoid confusion. That does not mean that the conventions do not exist.
As for calling one vehicle manufacturer's incorrect usage a "convention existing", sorry, not buying; the convention does not exist. Sliced and diced any you can, transmissions that do not have a manually operated clutch are either Automatic or Semi-Automatic transmissions.
I tend to go 5 mph faster than the speed limit (which usually is 65 or 70 it seems). This trip I was passed by Prii several times. They still are likely getting 40+ mpg compared to my 25.
mmm, Nanaimo bars.
IF my current Jetta TDI got 71 mpg (with a 14.5 gal tank) I could literally go 994 miles with 36 miles to spare to look for a fuel station !! Given 12,000 to 15,000 (average yearly US drivers miles per year) @ $4 per gal, 12 to 15 each fill ups per year would knock hell out of a 56 dollar bill each time :sick:
But I can dream.
Manual JettaTDI/Prius
2010 44.8/48.8
2009 39.9/50.5
2006 42.3/47.7
2005 44.9/47.7
BTW, the air pollution score is 6.2 for the 2010 manual jetta tdi as compared to 3.8 for the Prius. A corolla also gets a score of 6.2, so that's not bad for the TDI.
This one of these statements is untrue?
The Prius is a high-mileage car.
The Jetta TDI is a high-mileage car.
The Camry is a high-mileage car.
The Prius is the comparison for the Jetta TDI - not the TCH.
I didn't go back as far as '03. But you forgot to mention that diesel fuel as compared to regular gas costs more too, which would negate the 1.1 to 2 mpg better mpg you'd get with your '03 TDI.
Both the Prius and TDI are both good for mpg, especially compared with most other cars out there.
Now truly I do not know what the Prius would post if I drove it like the 03 Jetta TDI, but I am almost positive it would be less than the 45.4 mpg reported on the .gov site. Now I do know how to drive the 03 TDI "Prius like" and 62 mpg has been my best.
Again, it's great you're getting good mpg with your tdi.
Because this is a diesel thread, I really have never understand why hybrid/Prius drivers have seen or chosen or continue to chose folks who drive diesels as the "enemy". This is not to say that is your personal view.
Good news on that front:
Emissions Trap Cuts Harmful Diesel Pollution (Healthfinder.gov).
The guys with the $2,000 filter funded part of the study. So chances are the price can come down significantly with competition or scale, or both.
That said, we are breathing crap everyday that could be more harmful. I just read about this the other day in the book I am reading. Older homes should be tested for asbestos. It is worse than that soot from diesel engines.
A mine near Libby, Montana, was the source of over 70 percent of all vermiculite sold in the U.S. from 1919 to 1990. There was also a deposit of asbestos at that mine, so the vermiculite from Libby was contaminated with asbestos. Vermiculite from Libby was used in the majority of vermiculite insulation in the U.S. and was often sold under the brand name Zonolite.
If you have vermiculite insulation in your home, you should assume this material may be contaminated with asbestos and be aware of steps you can take to protect yourself and your family from exposure to asbestos.
http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/verm.html
We shake our heads when we think about the stuff we did as kids - riding bikes behind the mosquito fogging trucks, standing under crop dusters as they swoop overhead. In another 50 or 100 years, our kids may be shaking their heads that we drove ICE cars and trucks around.
The air we breath today could be the cause of a problem 20 years from now. I would think where you are now is pretty clean. Or is there a lot of mining in the UP?
I can stand behind a running Prius without getting nauseated and wanting to throw up.
I can't say the same about smelling the older, "unclean" diesel exhaust.
JUST THIS MORNING, not 10 minutes ago, I was stopped at a red light. Wanted to roll the windows down to get some cool air inside. Beside me to my left and about half a car behind was a 2000s-era Chevy diesel pickup. Within five seconds of rolling the windows down, I was ENVELOPED by the gross smell of that diesel pickup exhaust. UP went the windows.
I know the new clean diesels are different.
But that still doesn't change the fact that every time I'm near a diesel pickup I feel sickened.
So diesel will not make big headways in the market until most of those stinky pickups are gone to the boneyard.
Maybe that's why today cancer rates are rising, as well as many other diseases...we may think all that stuff we were exposed to as kids had no effect, but in reality maybe it did and as our bodies age it becomes more apparant. Just because you don't drop dead instantly after breathing in some chemical when you were 12 years old that doesn't mean it won't cause problems when you turn 70 years old. The same with genetically modified corn used in corn syrup....who knows what the long term effects will be on us and our children. Maybe nothing but maybe something.
I think diesels get a bad rap purely on the fact that you can see the pollution and people equate diesel with big trucks. But I think after gas gets beyond $5/gal on a regular basis, there's going to be all sorts of innovations in moving a car from A to B.
Depends on the battery level of the Prius.
If the battery is full at the beginning of that hour, and you leave a Prius running in the garage, the gas engine WON'T RUN until the battery gets low. That might be a while.
One time two summers ago, we had a power outage (due to a fire a block away) around 3 a.m. That means no A/C in the house.
So I went to the garage, cracked the garage door 6 inches, and got into the TCH and started it with the A/C on low.
Slept for 30 minutes in that car in the garage running.
Coulda done that in a diesel hybrid too.
That is the reality. We smell the nasty exhaust and think of it as dangerous. When actually the extractors in our lungs do a decent job of eliminating that nasty black dust. Much of the dust we breath, such as quartz, lead, mercury and asbestos are not as easily cleaned out of our system. So just because it smells bad is not a measure of its danger. At least for people with healthy bodies. ALL dust is potentially bad for us. Just in varying degrees. I don't plan to wear a gas mask around. Better to stay out of areas that have more pollution.
The higher the price of fuel goes the more alternatives like biodiesel will be viable. Hopefully we will back biofuels that are better than their fossil fuel replacements.