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Forget $28,995. Won't happen. But I truly believe you'll be able to order a $29,995 IS. Can you wait the ten weeks or so from deposit? ;-)
You can bet your fanny that this next purchase of mine (whatever it may be), I'm gonna order it if I can't find exactly what I want. My days of compromise are behind me (touch wood)!
M
DrFill
You may be right, the base IS350 may cost $39,995.
I guess many people *speculated* (that word again) that the new GS would not reach the $60K mark. Well, try pricing a fully loaded GS430. Lexus believes it has earned some more capital in the NA market, and now believes it can price uplevel to that of MB or BMW. Watch the next LS price go beyond $60K base. There has to be overlaps between models - where one tops out becomes the other's starting point. Tell me how the new GS300 can be selling for $50 large! That car, appropriately priced, should be in the mid-$40K range. That, imo, is the sweet spot. The IS350 will reach $40K easily, when fully optioned up.
The RX may be the poster boy for the "soft roader", but it destroys the competition in the most important factor, sales. How many X5s or Touregs are REALLY taken off road?
remember the day when a DCX SUV makes about $10K each? Toyota are selling those vehicles now.
DL
"That, imo, is the sweet spot." Yes, for the consumer, perhaps. But if Lexus can sell the same volume at a higher profit, it will do so. For now, only after some time passes will we be able to analyze the effectiveness of Lexus USA's strategy.
~alpha
- SmartAccess with push-button start
- Optitron Instrument Cluster
- Power Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel
- Steering-wheel-mounted Cruise Control, Audio and Display Controls
- Bluetooth® technology
- 10-Way power seats with memory for driver and passenger
- Wood and/or Metal trim interior
- Dual-Zone Automatic Climate Control
- Mini Plug accessory connector
- Illuminated Scuff Plates on door sills
- AM/FM/CD, 13-speaker audio system
- Ten airbags, including a first-in-segment double knee airbag
Optional Equipment
- Ventilated Front Seats with multistage fans
- Touch Screen-Voice Activated DVD Navigation System
- Mark Levinson Premium Surround Audio System
- Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC)
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Rain-sensing Windshield Wipers with Headlamp Washers
- Power rear-window sunshade
- XM® Satellite Radio capability
- Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS)
- Intelligent Adaptive Front Lighting System (I-AFS)
- Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management System (VDIM).
This features list has been confirmed by several sources, as well as interior photos of the IS shown in Geneva.
Equipped with all of the above, I'd be shocked if the IS350 comes at less than $44,000. PCS alone should be a $2000 option. Hopefully, I'll be wrong.
IS250 AWD: $33,000 base, $39,000 fully loaded (without PCS)
IS350: $35,000 base, $42,000 fully loaded (without PCS)
PCS will be a $2000 special order option.
I just read an LA Times article about the RX400h. There is suspicion that the LS400 was underpriced to establish the brand. Lexus may have taken a loss that a giant like Toyota could amortize.
There is suspicion they may be doing the same with the RX400h. A lot of people are squawking about the pricing but all the hybrid components may cost well over whatever the price delta is from a comparably equipped RX330.
Anyways, I think there are ES330 models on Lexus dealer lots which are like 41-43k. Put a 3.5 engine which will outrun the BMWs and the Audis and they will most certainly price it in the mid 40s, which is where the competition is.
So unless you want to special order, you're going to get ventilated seats and rear window shade and such.
They call this "equipment"?
It's a good feature if they can't offer iPod compatibility (charging/control/display) but it's equipment?
The G35, TL are loaded in the mid-$30's with 270-290hp. Why buy a smaller car for more money and possibly less hp, if the IS350 isn't introduced, its speculation at this point.
I think the pricing needs to be way lower or it will be squeezed out at both ends. BMW and MB will keep their "high-end" customers and Acura/Infiniti will still have their customer base. Remember, all the other cars in this segment have a established following with HUGE sales numbers. Lexus hasn't retooled the IS since inception. At $42K or higher, it will be hard to dethrone all the current players.
Leather, Xenon and moonfoor. I have no use for any of the other options and if i like the car I'll gladly order it without laser cruise and ventilated seats and such. Don't need or want that stuff.
can't see them making moon standard but maybe xenon lights. Shrug, regardless, I feel I can get an IS at a reasonable price if the options are just tacky gizmos.
I think there are going to be three levels of Lexus IS buyer:
Those sold already because the car is a Lexus and looks cool.
Those who like the car, but will become sold once they sit in the new, posh interior. It's interior seems much more luxurious than the 3 or the G35. Similar to the TL.
And those who are drivers, and want the best driver's car for the money.
I wouldn't worry too much on sales. I guess we can't project too much without knowing the other engines available. Who even know how much power the 2.5 has!
But with coupe, conv., hybrid, and maybe V8 down the road. whatever they sell in 2006, that number may double by 2008-9.
DrFill
Ken
In recent auto articles from the Globe and Mail and the National Post, the HP of the 2.5 IS will be 206. Yes, only 206 and this is not a typo error. I read both figures seperately in both papers!
A loaded G35 sedan with Premium Package, Wood, Navi, and Satellite radio is $37,610. Add AWD and it is $39,410.
The US version will be more powerful, and more details will be released at NYIAS, for both the 250, and any other model that will be available this fall.
I wouldn't bet on 206. That's not it.
DrFill
Its going to be another couple of weeks before we know for sure.
Hate to break the bad news to all of you folks but Lexus cars in Canada are identical to the cars in the US.
Buying a 2.5 IS in the USA with more hp than 201 is just wishful thinking.
IS250... 201 hp
325i... 215 hp
IS300... 245 hp
330i... 255 hp
Something about this reminds me of the launch of the original IS300..
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2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That may be the case for Acura and BMW but not Lexus.
That may change in the future with the IS. Canadians are more frugal and not as addicted to gas consuming power as you folks are down south.
Outputs on engines in the US and Canada have always been the same. Yes, in Canada we have some cars like the Acura EL, BMW 320i, and Toyota Echo hatchback they don't South of the border but it works the other way as well. We don't get the Pontiac GTO or the Lancer EVO.
With that said Aldehyde, European and Canadian spec are usually different. Someone help me out, is it because they use a different rating system or are the engines in a different state of tune?
But, I've seen nothing definitive on this.. I see a lot of talk here... but, no one can quote a source, other than Clements (sp?), and his thoughts seem kind of vague on it...
The first solid info I've seen, that also seems logical, is the horsepower number on the IS250... and we know the car comes with that.. they said so in Geneva..
And, I've actually seen a new 3.0 litre engine in a Lexus... in the GS300...
So far, the 3.5 in the IS is just supposition.. No current Lexus has one..
Anything can happen... but, I wouldn't say we "know" anything about a possible IS350..
regards,
kyfdx
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As kyfdx says, we're all just speculating, but we'll probably find out in late March when the New York show opens.
The is300 line was supposed to encompass as broad a range of options as the 3-series, from convertibles to AWD crossovers. Unlike most posters here, I don't need or want more horsepower or torque, I want all wheel drive, MORE ground clearance AND Lexus reliability... as someone who's gone through consecutive A4 quattro and 325xi leases because I don't trust either company's reliability after warranty, the big difference for me is the appeal of Lexus' legendary long-term reliability, which means a car I would actually buy and keep for a decade rather than endlessly cycle leases.
I know for a fact I'm not alone and folks like me represent a whole market segment that are looking for something smaller than the G35x and the near-luxury-wannabe Legacy that Toyota/Lexus could easily capture by bringing a diversified is300 line to fruition.
Low-slung aero-packaged IS350s for those who want that and AWD snow-capable raised-suspension IS250s for people like me, while consistently undercutting Audi and BMW's price points for similar products.
Having the highest number most certainly will not make for the best car, as BMW has routinely and consistently proved with the 3-series for three decades. Let's just see what the numbers look like on the test loops, and more importantly what the driving impressions are.
You'll pardon me for the opinion here, but buying a car by numbers is an idiot's game. Kind of like basing a purchase decision on the eventual value of a depreciating asset...
;-)
So, marketing the handling dynamics of a car is a good thing... but, BMW will be hard to beat on that issue..
If you are going to mimic the offerings of the 3-series by having engine options, etc... then you should be able to point to something superior, other than a lower price. Superior horsepower is an easy thing to trumpet over the competition.. whether it means you are actually faster or not..
BMW has fairly low HP numbers in relation to the competition.. I just think it is a marketing mistake to not top them... I personally could give a rat's patootie about the numbers... How does it drive?
But, you and I are in the minority...
regards,
kyfdx
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Though more expensive, I still would say Canadian gas prices are closer to the US than Europe. You have to remember there's an exchange rate difference too. Regular in Ontario at least is around $0.80/l. That's $3.04/USgal. But even with the rapid decline of the US dollar preceding and especially following the election, that's about US$2.43/gal. That's not far off from California right now
Still, high gas prices are a factor, along with salaries and disposable income, that encourage Canadians to buy more efficient cars.
Either way, an efficient 250 (or 220d) is a good thing in any market. I expect Lexus to take the TSX head on.
Mike
Of course, the dealer that posted the info could be just making it up, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Unfortunately you make sense. To decry, on my part, the fact that it caters to a lowest common denominator attitude, is like throwing sand at the incoming tide!
Toyota being all about volume, you are probably on the path.
Ah well, nobody complains about HP excesses unless they come at the expense of more necessary attributes. My stance is firmly on the grounds that that vast majority of resources needs to be thrown at driving dynamics first and foremost; power and amenities need to be in the back seat (figuratively, of course). That's really what makes my car so intensely satisfying.
I took a trip Saturday up the CA coast on hwy 1. For anyone who's never been there, it's the ultimate driving road (when the traffic's light). I think the total amount of straightaway numbers maybe 400 ft. per 10 miles! The car that replaces this one needs to make me feel the same or better on a road like that!
Example: The new '06 3-series makes its NA debut at the NY auto show in three weeks.. And goes on sale the first week of May..
As recently as January 1st (only 4 months before it goes on sale), no one had even heard that the 325i wouldn't have the 2.5 litre engine, but would have a 3.0 litre engine, instead...
So, until we get an ordering guide, or a copy and paste of an official letter from someone at Lexus, USA.. I'll remain skeptical..
My point is.. no one knows for sure..
regards,
kyfdx
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They want volume, but not by cheapening the brand.
What I don't understand is, how is the IS gonna be 2.5 and 3.5 only, with the 3.5 at 300+HP?
Where does the hybrid go from there?
I would have all three engines in the mix, if the 2.5 made enough power.
You can never have too many engines to choose from, can you?
DrFill
The 250 sent to US will be tuned for maximum hp; and not so concerned with mpg. I can see 220 hp, and 30 mpg on highway.
It would HAVE TO sell for less than $30k, and that flies in the face of everything Lexus has done for it's 15 years here.
They want volume, but not by cheapening the brand.
What I don't understand is, how is the IS gonna be 2.5 and 3.5 only, with the 3.5 at 300+HP?
Where does the hybrid go from there?"
I would have all three engines in the mix, if the 2.5 made enough power.
You can never have too many engines to choose from, can you?
DrFill
-----------------
My guess is that they stayed away from the 3.0L because it wouldn't necessarily give off a *remodel* or *upgrade* vibe. Also, I think the option of a 3.0L would soon be obsolete considering that a *possible* future hybrid mated to a 3.3L would come into play. The 3.3L is what I'm presuming they would use considering that the RX and Highlander are fitted with it.
Can't wait to get more details in the NY show.
CrimsonO2