Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

speedlux · January 2005

What a big deal with Inline 6. As long it's new V6 is lighter,fuel efficiecy, more power, and can compress more power if needed, then I gladed Inline 6 is gone.

mjcinva · January 2005

I love the SLK 350 but if the IS350 retractable four position hardtop convertible answers the mail and makes me feel the way the new SLK made me feel when I actually saw it in person and sat in it and heard the engine purr and experienced the quietness of the 22 second roof opening and closing.....well you understand.

I really hopes the IS350 meets the high expectations that are expressed on this forum and in the marketplace in general. For 10K less and the same visceral feeling I'll go with the Lexus and the guaranteed reliability if not I will gladly pay the premium for the SLK and be happy to do so.

-PLEASE LEXUS DELIVER THE GOODS!!!-

lexusguy · January 2005

Yeah I know, the inline didnt equal sales for IS300, nor did it equal competitive power. Its a REALLY old engine, and it desperately needed replacement. The Millen IS430's engine only weighed a few more pounds, because the IL6 was so old and heavy. I say, good riddance.

maxhonda99 · January 2005

"I say, good riddance."

I second that notion.

the Inline-6 was a great engine for it's time, but that was in the 90's.

It would be have been great if they brought out another inline-6 but they chose not to. Besides, look at how great the 3.5L V6 in the Nissan products are. From reading about the '06 Avalon, it looks like the new generation V6's are great motors too. Sure the V6 may not be as smooth, but if it produces more power, is lighter, more fuel efficient, it's ultimately good.

riez · January 2005

It is attitudes like that that have let BMW clean up. Jaguar and MB both foolishly dropped I6s (though is nice to see MB use an I6 diesel in the E320).

If you look back at say 60 years of car reviews for premium marques that used I6s, nearly every one praised the inherently great I6 engine. In everything from 1950s RRs to 1960 Jaguars to 2005 BMWs. Couldn't imagine an E-type Jag with a V6! Smooth power delivery.

I6 will give BMW a strategic advantage in engines. Their latest editions are getting rave reviews. Now if only BMW would sell a 3.5L I6!!!

speedlux · January 2005

I have read about the new 3series spec.

it new I6 may have 255hp@6,600 rpm and 220 lbft of torque @2750 rpm. Doesn't seem impressive. It a little fast than Lexus new 3.0 but it's no way compare to the new 3.5 with 280hp and 260lb torqe@low rpm, by the way, Avalon's 0-60 is 6.6sec with 5sp. It fast for this big car. Rumor has this 3.5 is tweeked for IS will be more than 300hp.

lexusguy · January 2005

What is the big deal with engine packaging? Having an inline layout does not make an engine good. The OLD, steel, twin cam Toyota inline needed to go. It was sorely outdated. The IS350 should be able to mop the floor with the IS300 and its puny 215hp. Honda can squeeze more than that out of a 4 banger. In my opinion, the best 6 cylinder engine in the world right now is the Nissan VQ. Its very efficient, very smooth, and VERY powerful, and doesnt cost M3 or 911 Carrera money to make.

Yes, Mercedes are such fools. Their new 3.5L DOHC 268hp V6 in the SLK can do 0-60 in 5.5. What a terrible engine. The inlines are gone, and the new Vs are better in every way.

merc1 · January 2005

I have to admit I didn't think anything great about Mercedes dropping their I6s back in 1997, because the about-to-be-replaced SOHC 3-Valve V6s and V8s aren't nearly as good as the old I6 and DOHC V8s Mercedes used prior to 1998. Now the new 3.5L DOHC V6 appears to be better than any I6 Mercedes ever produced, except the downright hairy monster I6 in the 1995-1997 C36 (276hp). When Mercedes decides to add direct injection to the new V6s they should get another 20hp out of them. The new DOHC 32V V8s in the 2006/7 S-Class are supposed to have direct injection from the start.

I have to ask a question here. Is the IS300's I6 the same engine thats in the last generation Surpra? If so, Toyota could have easily made the IS300's engine a segment leader, but I suspect cost was the reason why they didn't.

An I6 is for a fact more expensive to produce, harder to package in today's swoopier cars and aren't as easy to tune to emission standards, which explains why a lot of companies, even those like Toyota who virtually print money, won't spend the money to update them. That said, the best 6-cylinder engine on the market whether it be a V or I configuration is the BMW M3's 3.2 333hp six, imo. You pay a premium for this engine in the M3 and such an engine would be overkill in a regular sedan. I haven't seen it written anywhere that a V6 (from anyone) matches an I6 in smoothness, so there are some inherent benefits of an I6. Then you have the flat or boxer configuration. Another specialty, but just like the I6 they make great hp and more importantly torque without having to be so large in capacity and their blocks are tougher than any V configuration. There is a reason why the I6 layout is preferred for high stress applications like diesels. Mercedes has new V6 diesel, 3.2L, 224hp, 369lb-ft that will eventually replace the current I6 in today's E320CDI. It must have taken quit some effort to engineer it to match the durability of an I6 block. The previous Supra I6 is good for something like 600hp without any internal modifications. Clearly I6s are classically overbuilt, but with every car maker under the gun for cost and/or need to be leaner the I6 is on its way out for good this time. BMW will eventually have to drop theirs too, unless they're going to continue to spend the extra money on I6 development.

M

lexusguy · January 2005

The IS300's engine is essentially the same motor as the one used in Supra, GS300 and SC300. You'll notice that all of those cars made 225hp, and the IS only makes 215. This was mostly because of the IS300's small engine bay, and the use of a single exhaust. I don't see any way Toyota could've gotten more power out of it without going with Supra style TTs, and just as with Soarer 3.0T vs. US spec Lexus SC300, Toyota decided "no turbo for you" and figured the IS in normally aspirated form would be fine. It wasnt. The restricted inline coupled with bad gearing just crippled the car's acceleration, making it barely competitive with a 325i. Not what they needed.

I still say the Nissan VQ takes the cake. I've seen a few 350Z's with simple bolt on blowers making 450hp, still well under the cost of any M3.

maxhonda99 · January 2005

I don't even think the majority of BMW 3-series buyers would care if BMW switched to a V6. Do you really think the average 3-series buyer gives a hoot about it having a straight 6 vs. a V6? Most wouldn't even know the difference between the 2 engine types or feel the difference.

BTW, as I said before and have many other people, check out the VQ 3.5L V6 in the Nissan's. Great engine!

riez · January 2005

You have to compare apples to apples. So that means comparing I6s to V6s at the same time. You can't fairly compare a 2005 MB V6, with all the latest and greatest in technolgy and metallurgy, to a 1996 I6. BUT MB could have chosen to invest their engine development marks/euros into I6s, but they went for V6s. [Their more modern first generation V6s were panned; that says a world about the inherent superiority of the I6.]

You need to be looking at the newly released next generation BMW 2.5L and 3.0L engines. Latest and greatest in technology and metallurgy. These engines are light, clean, and modern! The 2.5 and 3.0 add about 30 HP. Believe the new generation 3.0L is putting out around 258 hp. You can do the math on hp/liter. [Believe this hp/l figure is in excess of what Nissan is getting from 3.5L]

I6 means enough to me that it means I won't even consider a V6 IS. Looks like I'll be going back to BMW around 2008-10.

carman123 · January 2005

Here's the math for BMW inline six vs. Infiniti V-6:

BMW : 255 hp / 3.0 L = 85 hp/L

G35 with 6 speed manual: 298 hp /3.5 L = 85 hp/L

Appears to be pretty equivalent to me.

lexusguy · January 2005

"I6 means enough to me that it means I won't even consider a V6 IS".

Wow, that makes no sense. You wont even consider the car because you might actually LIKE a car with a V6? Honda's 3.5L also can do 85hp\L. Horsepower per litre is meaningless anyway. The S2000 has 120hp\L. I'd much rather have the V6.

dewey · January 2005

"Here's the math for BMW inline six vs. Infiniti V-6: "

Some forum members here think Toyota is unable to improve i6 technology? This whole idea that the inline 6 IS engine is dated therefore THnak God it is being replace is bogus!As Riez pointed out Inline 6 technology can be enhanced and is not static!

G35 is a fine car! It's hp stats always looked better than the BMW330 until reality sets in with real world road tests! A v6 IS350 with 300 hp sounds even more impressive. It's how those stats translates into performance, handling and agility that really counts!! It doesnt take a Nostradamus to predict that the BMW Inline 6 will be the winner in future comparisons! Who is willing to make a wager with me??

drfill · January 2005

Since the rumor that the March 3rd IS350 intro should sport 300 HP will trump all comers in the class, Lexus will be the hunted!

   Hopefully it's design will be as class-leading. I think the current car is great-looking. But I also am very happy with the current GS and 5-series, so...

   Merc



   My sources say the new engines for the S-Class will be like the GS, about 12-18 months late for the launch! They'll appear as early 2008.

   Wonder if the Supra TT's 6-speed is compatible with the new 3.5 V6, or will they have to make a new tranny. Or not offer one on that model?

   DrFill

lexusguy · January 2005

I'm not saying Toyota couldn't have replaced the Supra 3.0L with a new inline. They could have, but they chose not to. They are not BMW, and they dont think like BMW does. Toyota seems to want two engines, the new 3.0L and the new 3.5L, that will work in FWD\AWD\RWD applications with every V6 powered car and truck they make. More powertrain sharing means decreased cost for Toyota, which ultimately benefits the consumer. A top of the line new 3 series will probably be over $45K, into the territory of M35 and GS300. The IS350 and G35 will continue to undercut the 3 series severly in price, and match or beat it in performance, all without "magical" inline engines.

merc1 · January 2005

I just think overall in the case of the current IS300 it was a last-minute re-do for the U.S. market and Toyota didn't see the point of making any engine changes. To say they couldn't have gotten more power out of that I6 without resorting to forced induction simply isn't true. I know Toyota has the skills. I think that if an I6 is done right it'll be superior to any V6 of the same size/displacement. Do you really want BMW to make a 3.5L I6? It would crush any V6 around considering they can already get 333hp out of a 3.2L.

M

lexusguy · January 2005

But the Altezza\IS300 has been available in other parts of the world with the same power for quite awhile, and the engine has had 225 horses for some 13 years or so. Dont you think if Toyota could've gotten more power out of it, they would have in that amount of time?

A 3.5L I6 from BMW could easily be countered by the competition with a simple blower. Just look at what the C32 had. All Mercedes would have to do as add that blower to their new 3.5L engine, and walla, 450hp or so, and as much torque as the BMW V-10.

dewey · January 2005

What I find interesting about this forum is that the more the future IS is discussed the more Mercedes Benz is being mentioned than BMW.

A IS with V6 that is larger ,softer and more luxurious resembles a MB or other Lexus products than a BMW. This will just make BMW stronger in the market they already serve.

It is true from a production point of view canning the I6 to have a V6 platform shared among other Toyotas makes sense! It is untrue to say that surrendering the i6 endeavor is smart for the IS---escpecially if it wants to compete with a BMW.

riez · January 2005

lexusguy... I want the best car for the money. That means the best engine I can afford. So I stick to I6 and V8 configurations. The latest BMW V8s are magnificent engines.

drfill · January 2005

I don't see them making the IS into an ES.

DrFill

maxhonda99 · January 2005

I don't think anybody is saying Toyota can't improve inline-6 technology, at least I'm not. If anyone can, Toyota could have made a better straight 6. But they chose not to. They probably didn't make a inline 6 for cost reasons. They are basically developing a family of V6 engines to fit in a variety of products from the 3.0L in the '06 GS, to the 3.5L in the Avalon to the 4.0L in the Tacoma. A inline-6 engine can basically be used only in a RWD or AWD vehicle.

dewey · January 2005

"BMW says the new 330i will take about six seconds to run from 0 to 60 miles per hour. That's fast, but it may not be fast enough, and Mr. Panke vows more horses are on the way.""

The above statement is a quote I posted on #703.

How does the statement relate to the IS and Infiniti G35?

It is relevant since up to now Infiniti smartly provided v6 engines with more hp than equivalent BMW 3 series. BMW sales remained strong because their performance/handling remained the tops despite the hp stats. BMW was smug about having lower hp cars until........

NOW! This is the End of the World as we know it! As the IS imitates the GS with superior hp--BMW is going to up the ante with hp themselves(unlike the past). This hp war race will go to the victor with the exceptional i6 engine vs. the horde of competitors with v6 engines. It will be harder for IS and GS to differentiate themselves from other v6 competitors! Differentiation for BMW wont be so hard!!!

dewey · January 2005

"don't see them making the IS into an ES"

Callmedrfill,

the statement above is true. But Toyota is making the IS more into a Infiniti G35 and MB C-Class competitor than a BMW competitor!

That is what is truly frustrating! Acura gave up the fight against BMW by having a FWD TL. Honda's rebadged engineering(accord--TL) is what keeps it from greatness while Honda has the potential to beat BMW--I love the Honda S2000(4 cyl. gem).

Now Toyota with it's platform sharing is giving up on i6 despite the fact that a new and improved i6 would ruin BMW's day or years!

The initial objective of the IS was to steal the benchmark title from BMW? What a difference a few years makes.

drfill · January 2005

Do you mean the G35? Or the Lexus GS?

  At some point 2-3 yeasrs from now, they'll all have normally-aspirated 300HP sixes!

  Lexus has the toughest road to hoe, with only about 15k sales a year, they need to triple sales just to reach CTS! So I expect the most radical change from Lexus, which includes a 300 HP 3.5 introduced on 3/2/05.

  Question is, who's sales will they conquer? Their sales will improve dramatically, but at whose expense?

  Will the TL's topque steer sink it in the long run?

  Will the A4 get lost in the herd, and it's own weight?

  Will the CTS and it's 255HP become passe? It won't get far on it's interior.

  Will the G35 lose sales it took from the IS in the first place?

  DrFill

dewey · January 2005

I meant the G35 not the Lexus GS.

Whose sales will the IS steal---Acura TL, Infiniti GS and the MB c class.

I am sure the Lexus IS will be a higher volume success(that wont be hard to do). It ceases to amaze me how the RX330 can be so hot selling when it just a product of rebadged engineering(a Highlander). Ford tried it and they produced burnt toast with the X-Type Jag(rebadged Ford Mondeo). Lexus is a great marketing machine and if the IS is compatible with the Infiniti G35 and the Acura TL---the IS will sell like hotcakes just because of its high Lexus image in N. America.

I just wanted something more ambitious from the IS like being a benchmark performance vehicle vs. an option among other performance vehicles.

drfill · January 2005

One, stop saying Infiniti GS! It's very confusing. Is the G35 calls GS where you are? I don't get it.

Second Ting: The RX is no product of "badge-engineering". It looks nothing like the Highlander, although they share platform, engine, and some parts. The differentiation is quite dramatic, as the RX look like no other SUV on the market, inside or out.

DrFill

drfill · January 2005

Pricing is so important, and the GS is rumored to start near or above $45k (a little high, I say).

   So does that mean the IS 350 comes in near $40k, loaded $45k? Or does the future convertible occupy the $40-45k spot in the Lexus hierarcy?

   I'd hope the IS goes: $30,995 for IS250, $34,990 for IS350, $41,995 for Conv. (in 2007).

   If the GS is $45k and up, it'll need more power, as it's about $5k more than an M, and too close to the RL in price, not as well-equipped.

   Stay close $3-5k south of 5-series models.

   DrFill

mjcinva · January 2005

I hope you're right on the pricing. It sounds reasonable. I can't wait until the Geneva and NY Auto Show reveals. I wish they were doing both in March but alas I think I'll have to wait awhile until the convertible is shown. But the sedan should give us a good idea of what's coming for the convertible.

merc1 · January 2005

Well if the current IS300 had been around that long then yes they definitely had time to get more power out of the engine, but I think they decided not to because the car was just going to be a placeholder for the U.S. market, without the corresponding coupe/convertible and a hardly known about wagon in the U.S. for a few short years, so why bother with the costly changes to the I6.

In that example of the 3.5L BMW I6 I meant naturally aspirated it would be superior. Anyone can use forced induction to turn just about anything into a wonder motor. BMW and Honda are very good at power per liter and I think an I6 would have an advantage in torque.

M

drfill · January 2005

2006: Lexus GS gets 3.5 as third engine (300HP)

    2007: Lexus GS drops 3.0 as base engine.

           Lexus IS inherits 3.0 as base engine.

           Lexus GS gains Hybrid affixed to 3.5, adding 175HP for 475Hp total. Gets 30MPG (city).

    2007.5: Lexus IS gets Hybrid power (300HP + 100Hp=400HP!) Gets close to 35MPG (city). Competes with 400 HP M3. This is their "L-Tuned" entry, as Lexus develops "L-Tuned" Performance brand.

    2008: Lexus LS gets Hybrid 5.0 (Lexus LS500GT), good for 600 HP. Gets around 25MPG (city). All Hybrids get "L-Tuned" suspension as an OPTION.



   DrFill

bobcatman · January 2005

So the March 3rd little surprise is happenin eh?

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3930&cat- egoryId=10

dewey · January 2005

"Is the G35 calls GS where you are?"

Up here we call it a typo error

"as the RX look like no other SUV on the market, inside or out"

<>The RX is a rebadged Highlander, despite its prettier face. Lexus ES is a rebadged Camry, despite its prettier face. I dont know what you call it down the USA but up here we call it rebadging no matter how good it looks

lexusguy · January 2005

Make it bold, make it italic, scream it to yourself in the mirror. It doesnt make it true. An example of a "rebadge" is the Dodge Caravan\Chrysler T&C. They are the same car. The ES330 shares some 30% or so of its parts with Camry. I would say the minivans are probably something like 90%+.

Dr. Fill, the "L-tuned" idea has been scrapped. Whether the cars are going to be "GT" or something else, I dont know, but they wont be L-tuned.

drfill · January 2005

When it's done right, it's "platform-sharing".

    When done poorly, or cheaply, it's rebadging".

    I'm a fan of the "L-Tuned" concept, it would work now, or later, if invested in properly. We'll see. They're gonna do something along those lines, according to Danny Clements, so let's get it on!

   DrFill

lexusguy · January 2005

Lexus is going to jump on the in-house tuner bandwagon. Pretty much everybody and their grandmother is doing that now. I just meant that I know for certain that the "L-tuned" name has been canned. I wonder if Nissan will counter with "Nismo" Infinitis?

drfill · January 2005

But hopefully they won't come up with something lame to replace it with.

I'd have to assume the 4.6 will have 350HP, jes?

DrFill

lexusguy · February 2005

Personally I dont understand whats the problem with simply using the TRD name. The rest of the Japanese special performance badges, Nismo, Ralliart, STi, etc, are all straight from their racing development divisions.

drfill · February 2005

L. Tuned. Lexus. Tuned.

Simply, yet elegant.

DrFill

lexusguy · February 2005

So? Lexus cars had "Toyota" stamped on their glass until '97 or '98. What is at least nice about TRD vs. a made up name like LPO or LPR or something is TRD already has some followers and is already known as a supplier of performace parts for Toyotas. It seems like the upcoming special Lexus cars will be called "GT"; that was the last name that was in print anywhere, though they may have changed their minds again.

kyfdx · February 2005

"L. Tuned. Lexus. Tuned"

L-tuned stands for Lexus-tuned? I thought that was Lotus. Who the heck would want Lexus-tuned? For their great reputation with suspensions and handling?

Now, if you had a Town Car or a Grand Marquis... I could see Lexus-tuned helping with that..

wale_bate1 · February 2005

Toyota has made it pretty darn clear that they expect to build Lexus brand identity globally, so TRD, or indeed anything with the Toyota name in it is out, regardless if you can find the name on parts around the cars.

L-Tuned has stood for mostly appearance packages and some minor tuning apps. It's tainted as a performance tuner badge, IMO. Doesn't mean they couldn't use it, just means it has no immediate teeth. They'd have to build it up.

Seems to me that Millen runs the only serious tuning program routinely currently associated with Lexus. Wonder if they might contract for the name to throw on TRD designs? Hmmm.

BTW, good one kyfdx. You must've had seat time in an ES330 "sport" edition...

nyccarguy · February 2005

Has an interview with the Executive VP of Toyota Motor Sales. He had some interesting things to say about Lexus. He said how Lexus is still growing in Phases. Phase 1 was to redefine the luxury car segment, then revolutionize the dealership experience, and offer top quality cars at reasonable prices. The next phase is to inject the thrill of driving with their already world renowned comfort. He admitted that Lexus cars have never had the "visceral, emotional feedback" and that their styling isn't the most awe-inspiring. He said to look for these "emotional components" in the new GS, and upcoming IS & LS.

NOte to Lexus: I'd love an IS Convertible with a Manual Transmission and a folding hardtop.

kyfdx · February 2005

Sorry.. couldn't resist..

Actually.. I've always liked the IS300.. I never got the comments about the interior.. the gauges are a little different, but I never noticed anything radical.. And, I like small and sporty.. I think it compares well with a 325i.. a little more power, not quite as crisp handling, but close.. maybe a little twitchier..

Very nice looking from the front.. a little less so, from the back.. but nothing off-putting..

I think where it suffers.. Everyone wants to compare it to the 330i, because they both have 3.0 litre engines.. But, realistically.. the competition is the 325i and the A4 1.8

And, I think it died (well, almost dead), because it was just an afterthought for Lexus... They used the Alteeza to fill out their product offering, without really intending to sell a lot of them... Sort of how Acura needed a small sedan, so they grabbed the JDM Accord... Of course, I think Acura mis-judged the demand, and luckily hit the right price point.. I don't think they ever dreamed they would be selling 30K/year and basically all the capacity they could divert towards the TSX.. They just kind of fell into it...

I think Lexus could have priced the IS300 about $3K lower, sold a bunch, and still made money..

It will be interesting to see how the new one does... You'd think they would try harder this time.... There is a lot of profit to be made there...

nippononly · February 2005

L-tuned and TRD, I guess they won't be using "LRD", huh?" ?! (LaRD)

So is there any credence at all given to that autospies thing? That Lexus will actually bring the new IS to dealerships in March as BMW will be doing with the new 3-series? I am sorry, but I must have missed something major here - there was never a production-ready concept at any auto show right? It just went straight from the LF-C concept to sitting on the showroom floor about six weeks from now?

lexusguy · February 2005

Autospies is full of crap. There wont be an IS in march. Id say its going to be closer to Q4 '05.

drfill · February 2005

At the Geneva Auto Show, as will the 2006 3-series.

The car will be here, on sale, in the fall.

DrFill

wale_bate1 · February 2005

Well, I'd say that's about dead on. Especially on the 325/330 point.

Only I don't think the Altezza-based unit was an afterthought in the least. It was a test of the waters with as little exposure as possible. Detrtactors to my theory can rip it all they want, but I will always say the Altezza was designed based on adapting the 318 format for the Japanese home market. The specs are dramatically similar as are the trim and driving characteristics. In Lexus trim, it apes the 325 almost to a tee. I tried 'em both. Hard!

The initial price point and the no-manual intro were slappers, as discussed before, and subsequent pricing and subsidized leases (of which I took full advantage) could only do so much based on the age of the platform.

If they lose the I6, as much as the balance, smoothness and throttle response make it a joy, it's not necessarily a deal breaker. If it's bigger, and loses the delicious fit of a sporting sedan, it's not necessarily a deal breaker. If it gains heft and becomes slightly less tossable, as it is so delightfully now, it's not necessarily a deal breaker. All three together are, however, potentially a deal breaker!

We shall see, we shall see.

The irony here is that Toyota has said again and again that the car was supposed to lower the median age of the Lexus customer (and it has done exactly that), but all the talk in this thread is focused on things in which mostly the older typical Lexus buyer has real interest. Plush interiors, isolation chamber quiet, ultra stoplight and merge power, pliant ride, image, etc. The stuff that perpetuated the Lexus demographic in the first place!

Some may be mighty disappointed come September! Don't know who yet, but definitely some!

Can't wait for the March show intro. Let's hope it's more satisfying (by far) than the GS intro!

lexusguy · February 2005

"The irony here is that Toyota has said again and again that the car was supposed to lower the median age of the Lexus customer"

The problem is they went too far, so the people most attracted to the car couldnt pony up the $32K or so it cost to buy one. A G35 or S60R with aluminum trim is a good example of how to do a performance car that wont get you laughed at if you're over 30.

wale_bate1 · February 2005

I'm 44 and nobody laughs at me unless I want them to.

Well, except for my kids of course. Oh, and my wife, but whose doesn't? But that's not about the car.

G35 isn't the benchmark here, the 3-series bestseller (that'd be the 325) was and still is. The G35 is a mid-size, not a compact. Its demographic is also in excess of where Lexus would like the IS's to be. That's straight from Toyota. All y'all are just going to have to get used to sharing space on the road and at the dealership with some of the acne set!

Like I said, the priorities being voiced most strongly about what the next IS should be in here seem in near direct opposition to what Toyota has stated they want for the car and the brand.

A fresh interior isn't a bad thing, the current one is seven years old. A little power boost isn't a bad thing, the competition has moved on. An exterior update isn't a bad thing, see note on interior. But changing the overall character of the foundation they've built? That would be stupid. It should not, IMO, be more like any of the other offerings in the Lexus lineup. The other offerings are boring, which is exactly how I ended up in the IS. Some people choose the car that's fun to drive first, and look for plush/cush second.

So update away, and make it great, but don't dare lose or hamper in any way the oustanding driving quality of what is. Yup, that'd be my message today.

Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

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