Since I have had VW's TDI/'s for over a decade (12 MY's), I didn't think I'd be saying this, but I agree with you about improved (improvement in) dealer networks. Additionally, I do have MB to compare VW's ' with.
This, of course reminds me that I have anecdotal and sotp's experiences with 4 diesel pp.'s ( 1.9, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0 L) and 4 transmissions (5 speed M/T, 6 speed DSG, 7 speed A/T, 8 speed A/T).
I do not have ownership experiences with the 6 speed M/T, but do like it very much, from what I do know.
VW has been spinning US sales stuff for three years now, but they don't seem to have hit the magic formula. Yeah, they are making money but they want to be number one in worldwide sales. I like the way they are positioned though when (if?) the world economy picks up a bit.
I think VW better than any of the others has pinpointed where the money is in the USA. Not in the low end markets. It is the Silicon Valley billionaires that are setting the auto buying trend. Look at what is selling well in the lower brackets. Cheap CUVs to the retiring boomers. Most boomers are not going to spend $50k to $80k on a high end CUV when they can buy a RAV4, Escape or CRV for half the price. As for service and reliability, I think Porsche is always near the top of the list.
Bottom line, VW passed GM in total world sales last year and was nipping at Toyota heels. And most important for their future, they made a lot of money in the process.
VW has long had "Silicon Valley, "skunk werks," circa 1998. Now I can not point to skunkwerks CA. signature touches in the VW line, but suffice to say it is EXPENSIVE to maintain the presence , especially if it is NOT contributing to the bottom line.
Our local VW GTG group got exposure to it (years ago) @ Stanford U, CA with the then DARPA entry (10 cylinder Touareg TDI) for remote vehicle operation, desert torture testing. VW eventually WON this competition. Needless to say, one of the goals of the use and conception, invention of technologies are incremental to TOTAL disruptiveness. Here is the web site primer http://www.vwerl.com/silicon-valley
SoCa for whatever reasons made it enticing for its Toyota, Honda and Nissan (hope I am not leaving anyone else they enticed OUT) bases to LEAVE after decades of US based operations !!!!
I hear that. My sister had a 2000 Jetta GLS VR6 with the 2 year/24K warranty that included maintenance. What a nightmare that car was. Literally a week after the warranty was up, we were on the hook for new ignition coils. 2 years later they issued a recall and she was able to get the money back.
The 03 TDI's did not have the (gasser specific) ignition coils, thus avoiding the overhead falling swords all together. Further TMI includes (Hidden in the V6 reference) are the diesels clutch upgrade path and somewhat the spring and suspension and brake pad and rotor upgrades.
Yes, they change lease numbers and programs month to month depending on how well the cars sold or didn't sell.
So, just to recap here: VW sales in the US were down 22% for the month of June, so they lower incentives for July, thus raising prices. This sounds like a really good plan for ending the sales slump.
It is actually true, albeit not how YOU would/might run the railroad.!! ?? However, what is hard to argue against: Gagrice's post about the (high and higher) VW world wide posted profit/s !!!
They have also done this CONSISTENTLY. So for example, during the US 2008/2009 "CARMEGEDDON" (10.6 M yearly sales vs a more normal 14 to 16 M yearly sales) (world wide also) VW WW made BILLIONS of dollar while those LARGE OEMS, aka, Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler (smaller also), all to most LOST billions of dollars, the deltas' here being HUGE !!!
Most of course know about the GM taxpayer bail out, how close FORD came to the EDGE and sales of Chrysler to FIAT. Anyone can google the results that I am talking about.
@ruking1 said:
VW has long had "Silicon Valley, "skunk werks". Now I can not point to skunkwerks CA. signature touches in the VW line, but suffice to say it is EXPENSIVE to maintain the presence , especially if it is NOT contributing to the bottom line.
Only 3 cars are really AMERICAN? With the rest really .... JAPANESE ?????
Interesting, I had not heard of ERL. Makes sense as most automakers have US groups for input. Sounds like a fun place to work.
I think the tax payers have been duped with the GM/C bailout. The biggest selling GM products are their PU trucks. For MY 2014 the Silverado/Sierra only have 40% US content. Mexico gets all the automaking jobs from Government Motors and we get all their illegal aliens. Fiat has done a little better than GM in keeping and increasing jobs in the USA. Jeep and Ram are keeping them in business here.
king, that's VERY funny, if you're saying that VWs are reliable because you compared their reliability with that of a MercedesBenz ! chortle!
(my experience is with about 30 new cars, including 100k miles on a new mercedes, and ~500k on 6 new volkswagens including 4 TDIs).
@elias said:
king, that's VERY funny, if you're saying that VWs are reliable because you compared their reliability with that of a MercedesBenz ! chortle!
(my experience is with about 30 new cars, including 100k miles on a new mercedes, and ~500k on 6 new volkswagens including 4 TDIs).
To wit, IF you are saying that MB is more to totally reliable and durable just because it is a MB, there are any % and number of MB owners that truly would not agree with that sentiment. Owner reviews on the GLK MY were not all that glowing. So if you are saying I will have a totally flawless experience because it IS an MB diesel, well ... perhaps I would take that as your well wishes and caviar dreams ! I would also thank you for those well wishes !!!
I am not sure how and why you came to the conclusions about what I said that you did. However, if you are having FAR better luck with the MB line, it does beg the question why you ever got anything else BUT MB TDI's. But hey, this is not a totally serious thread. But yes @ like miles, the MB GLK 250 B/T has been utterly flawless. But so have the three other TDI's , which happen to be VW's. I also have 310,000 miles on 3 VW TDI's. I am hoping for easily 310,000 miles MORE . I am hoping to beat all the crappy experiences that a lot of my friends (who have/still owned MB's) have warned me against. So give me 95,000 to 115,000 more miles on the MB GLK 250 B/T and we will see if my experiences matches yours, AND defies theirs.
But then again ANY late model car should be able to go 100,000 to 120,000 miles with only a major tune and scheduled maintenance: hopefully LONG before then warranty issues have been resolved. I would expect no less from the MB 250 B/T. My friends (MB owners) think I am cruisin for a brusin. I hope to beat their statistics.
Took a night leg UP (8:45 pm) on the SOS/DD trek (210 miles) . The wife packed the GLK to the gills !! ?? Caught a few localized rolling parking lot zones. Even had the A/C on for part of the way. After traffic feathered off and routes opened up, the GLK 250 B/T posted 38 mpg. (for 169 miles) on the up route. Again I kept it @ app 80-86 mph, bursts to 90mph. Glad I am usually out of the way, when the local LEO's shoot past (while I probably should not admit this, OLD Fogie here) ! The over all mpg dropped to more like 35/36, once I included/climbed the mountains. (7,382 ft. Echo Summit) For as much traffic/s as there were in the rolling parking lot zones, there was almost nobody in the mountains! ? Even hit a few late night construction delays.
@ruking1 said:
Took a night leg UP (8:45 pm) on the SOS/DD trek (210 miles) . Caught a few localized rolling parking lots. Even had the A/C on for part of the way. After traffic feathered off and routes opened up, the GLK 250 B/T posted 38 mpg. on the up route. Again I kept it @ app 80-86 mph. The over all mpg dropped to more like 35/36 once I include the mountains. (7350 ft summit) Even hit a few late night construction delays. Happy 4th of July to all !!!
Is the Touareg TDI wasting away in the garage? You seem to be spending more time behind the wheel of the GLK BT. I will say they are fun to drive. Not sure they would be as comfy as a 650 mile day in the Touareg.
@gagrice said:
Is the Touareg TDI wasting away in the garage? You seem to be spending more time behind the wheel of the GLK BT. I will say they are fun to drive. Not sure they would be as comfy as a 650 mile day in the Touareg.
LOL ! Yes, During the break in phase ! Getting used to it and "wringing it out for (potential) warranty issues seems to be getting the attention. I am over due a 5,000 miles tire rotation, new car inspection and Ad Blue top off. I think the commuters (wife) would probably like to do the commute in the MB GLK 250 B/T, as it gets pretty close to the Jetta TDI's 41 mpg, allows sitting higher and the ability to conduct (ore comfortably) telephonic meetings and computer use for 2/3 folks.
While I really like it and things are going very well, I do prefer the Touareg ! I also would agree, over all and over more miles, the Touareg is a lot more comfortable, front and rear. It would seem that both you and I have gotten pretty good examples (as close to flawless as one standards would dictate and allow?) The Touareg TDI seems to be great bang for the buck (if one has need/want for a midsize CUV) and on many levels.
For any Prairie Home fans, this commercial won a bunch of awards. "The concept behind Grrr arose from an anecdote about Honda's chief engine designer, Kenichi Nagahiro. Nagahiro detested the noise, smell, and appearance of diesel engines, and when asked to design the company's first diesel engine, he flatly refused unless he was allowed to start completely from scratch." Grrr - Wikipedia.
The commercial that got all the press in the US though was the Cog one.
@stever said:
For any Prairie Home fans, this commercial won a bunch of awards. "The concept behind Grrr arose from an anecdote about Honda's chief engine designer, Kenichi Nagahiro. Nagahiro detested the noise, smell, and appearance of diesel engines, and when asked to design the company's first diesel engine, he flatly refused unless he was allowed to start completely from scratch." Grrr - Wikipedia.
The commercial that got all the press in the US though was the Cog one.
The irony with all the free Media hype given the darling Honda, their engineers could not make it as clean as the German big 3. The Japanese should just forget their big egos and ask for help building a clean diesel engine. Instead they build and sell them in the EU. 10 years later Honda has not gained any market share with their poorly designed hybrids. And cannot build a car today that will get as good a mileage as in the 1980s. Honda should just pack up and go home.
It is interesting in the context of Honda setting the high bar years ago with the smaller (gasser) I-4 cylinder.
Just in casual conversations with the owners of the 13 Lexus ES 300 H (2.5 L 4 cylinder hybrid with app 27,000 miles, avg being 39.1,) the SOS/DD trek let them post 34 mpg (65-70 mph) on the upgrade. It does make me wonder what I would post in that vehicle doing the SOS/DD up/down R/T, driven like any of the diesels.
39.1 MPG would be the high end of the spectrum from those posting on Fuelly. 2013 average for the 38 ES300h posted is 36.3 MPG. Which is a heck of a lot better than the 24.4 MPG posted for the ES350 gassers from the same year. I wonder how many people buying the Hybrid model whine about the $3,000 premium.
Just recommended the GLK250 BT to a friend. There is NO premium with the Mercedes diesel. It is 500 bucks less than the gas hog V6. She is trading in her Escalade and thinks she can get a good deal on the SRX. She knows it is still a gas hog. Bought lots of Caddies which is a hard addiction to break I guess.
@gagrice said:
39.1 MPG would be the high end of the spectrum from those posting on Fuelly. 2013 average for the 38 ES300h posted is 36.3 MPG. Which is a heck of a lot better than the 24.4 MPG posted for the ES350 gassers from the same year. I wonder how many people buying the Hybrid model whine about the $3,000 premium.
Just recommended the GLK250 BT to a friend. There is NO premium with the Mercedes diesel. It is 500 bucks less than the gas hog V6. She is trading in her Escalade and thinks she can get a good deal on the SRX. She knows it is still a gas hog. Bought lots of Caddies which is a hard addiction to break I guess.
We did some high desert trips with the Lexus ES350 owner as passenger in the MB 250 B/T. She's a former MB owner, so there was that perspective. She was surprise at the diesels' ability to take a hammering UP and down grade AND post the mpg posted. She noted that I did not use brakes at all (well occasionally) in long downgrades despite traffic and LLCer's.
Just filled the GLK 250 B/T for an R/T ( round trip) SOS/DD (418 miles) . Actually, just looking for the low fuel lamp to light ( to post on this thread and look for the EDGE) and it lit (@ app 15 gals/15.6 capacity, 532 miles when it was filled) for 35.67 mpg.
Funny part (for the thread) was a one hour meeting @ 85 mph in the "commute" lane, (not mine, I would not even think about TALKING on the phone while driving) also had a few other shorter meetings. We (later) stopped somewhere (GPS knew the way) in Sacramento, CA to see a (sub) contractor and conduct a few more meetings. It was fixing to hit 110 F today. Ops, I forgot the A/C was blasting (UP/DOWN grades). All in all a pretty productive ride home and I only had to pass a few cars in the mountains. (actually WAY safer that way) Wife also mentioned she liked the 12 VW Touareg better in the mountains. It also is able to take a lot more "stuff" and had a lot more interior room. To her, the Toureg handled much better.
So the real (FULL) range (and cumulative mpg, for a FULL (aka, pretty close) tank full) was stop and go commute/holiday driving, higher speed freeway driving (low/high altitude) , Zero to 7,388 ft (curvy mountain driving, high altitude stop and go driving.
@gagrice said:
39.1 MPG would be the high end of the spectrum from those posting on Fuelly. 2013 average for the 38 ES300h posted is 36.3 MPG. Which is a heck of a lot better than the 24.4 MPG posted for the ES350 gassers from the same year. I wonder how many people buying the Hybrid model whine about the $3,000 premium.
Just recommended the GLK250 BT to a friend. There is NO premium with the Mercedes diesel. It is 500 bucks less than the gas hog V6. She is trading in her Escalade and thinks she can get a good deal on the SRX. She knows it is still a gas hog. Bought lots of Caddies which is a hard addiction to break I guess.
I am also thinking that a suburban freeway commute is also the sweet spot for that gasser hybrid combination. I know they very carefully drive to maximize fuel economy. I do not know this for sure but it would seem the ES350 H is also an outlier purchase and those folks balk @ the 3k premium.
So for me, major PLUS'es for the diesels. There is a lot less (acquisition) premium.
Not to belabor the point, but if I drove the diesels like folks very careful to maximize fuel economy in a gasser hybrid, mpg would be WAY better in the diesels.
Fuelly lists 5 cars for a 29 mpg for the 14 GLK 250 B/T. RANGE is between 29 to 34 mpg.
In comparison to the other 5 fully.com posts, this latest tank full is an "outlier" @ 35.67 mpg.
Fuelly lists 5 cars for a 29 mpg for the 14 GLK 250 B/T. RANGE is between 29 to 35 mpg.
Which again proves how screwed up the EPA tests are with diesels. I know in my Touareg it is not easy to get below 25 MPG with mostly city driving. And that is above the combined rating by the EPA. For someone to get 20 MPG as rated EPA city they would have to be using the T-Reg as a street racer. After 14,000 miles my overall fuel savings coming from the Toyota Sequoia is 46%. That savings paid for 5 nights at Hampton Inns this last trip. Looking forward to a trip to Oregon this Fall.
PS
Just checking Gas Buddy for Oregon. Two of our destinations have diesel at $3.45 per gallon. That is at least 50 cents cheaper than here. And their RUG prices are about 25 cents higher than diesel. I love the smell of diesel in the Morning.
(To state the obvious AGAIN, for the wider audience)
I think also that when you go either or both of what mph, gasser and gasser hybrids are optimized for and/or recommended LOW speeds: MPG falls a LOT. Diesels even @ much higher mph, optimized for freeway/autobahn speeds yield far BETTER mpg.
Again needless to say, the operative effect is actually far GREATER RUG/PUG consumption, even as LESS consumption is the advertised mantra.
So just using the GLK 350 @ app 20 mpg and the GLK 250 B/T like model (anecdotal) @ 35.67, the T TDI gets app 78% better fuel mpg or uses minus- 44% less. So using a higher yearly avg of 15,000 miles the use is 750 gals vs 421 gals. The easy and fastest answers are literally hidden in plain sight. To take it to the TMI level SUPPOSED the GLK has a E85 model. Given 33% less mpg or 13.4 mpg that converts to 1119 gals of E85.
Another is the escalator of increasing energy prices besides PVF fueling. If anything increases in housing related energy seems to be the real goal.
@stever said:
That's a football (not futbol) score.
The fumes finally got to Brazil from making all that biodiesel.
(hey, it's sort of on topic...).
Well I don't think this is the clash and the triumph of ULSD over E85 to 100% ethanol ?
Or, .... is it?
However, USE even 10% ethanol and mpg figures ( RUG/PUG) in gassers and gasser/hybrids gets TRASHED. This does not even include the app 15% seasonal variations.
E85 burners seem to post 33% less mpg than even a gasser RUG/PUG, less than even that for gasser hybrids . USE E 85 in RUG/PUG burners and you have REAL problems.
@stever said:
That's a football (not futbol) score.
The fumes finally got to Brazil from making all that biodiesel.
Pro Sports the Opiate of the masses. To show how few people in the USA care about goofy soccer, fewer people watch the World Cup than own diesels. Aren't all of Brazils cars mandated to run on E100? Could be why they got blown out by the Germans that know diesel is the superior fuel to ethanol. Ethanol people are slow learners. The good part is we may get our corn back for tortillas.
“The scenario that we had a half-decade ago is not what we have anymore,” said Mauricio Muruci, who analyzes the ethanol industry here. “We are not thinking about ethanol in our future. We are thinking about pre-salt oil and shale gas.”
TMI on the 14 MB 250 B/T's first 5,000 miles dealer (2 included) service. (@ app 6.2 k miles, aka LATE) The real actions are:
tire rotation, PSI adjustment
topping of fluids,
multiple point (visual) inspections
any warranty issues
technical service updates
car wash (amazingly, literally scratch less) .
It is really more of a customer's meet and greet. The car is still on the OEM oil and oil filter.
While I am (still) not a "run flat tires" fan, tire wear seems encouraging. @ 6.2 k miles, the tires show only (less than actually) .25 /32nd in. (9.75/32nd in remaining, actually more) IF wear continues at this rate, wear per 1/32 nds = will be @ least 20 k to 25 k miles per.
I also seem to have bypassed app 6 to 7 of the models frustrating "issues. " Only one is diesel related.
@stever said:
Left before the finish - was that a "gift" goal to Brazil that messed up the football score?
The biodiesel production is set to surge down there. I thought it was already ramped up pretty high. (biofuels-news.com)
Good use for Soy Beans. I Hate TOFU. Though from what I have read Rape makes better biodiesel. Looks like Soy Beans are the world leading biodiesel crop.
I now have new tires on the Touareg. While cleaning my windows this morning I noticed a nail head on one of my tires. Not wanting to pull it out to find out if it was all the way through I headed down to my Trusty Discount Tire store. They were packed as usual and as soon as he moved the nail it started to leak. No problem we will fix it. After an hour in the waiting room our vehicle headed for the rack. Oh, I forgot. I could not find the wheel lock thingy. After searching every little cranny in the vehicle the sales guy found it right where I had tossed it when we had a flat in KY. Without that gadget you are NOT going to get the tire off. A new one has to be ordered from VW and takes time and $125. Anyway the young fellow pulls off the tire with the nail and proceeds to let the air out. When he is sure it is all out (while I am watching through the window) he goes to break the bead with this paddle device. OOOOPS, it goes through the side wall of the Goodyear tire. After two or three people including the boss look at it they come to give me the news I already knew. Discount Tire being the reputable company they are will replace the tire. Problem is there are no Goodyear Eagle LS2 265/50R19XL in So CA. With all the head scratching I knew the next step, offer a full set at a reduced price. Bottom line, I got a new set of Michelin 255/55R19 111V Latitude Touring XL tires for about $1000 less than if I walked in wanting to buy. These are likely the tire I would have bought when the Goodyears were worn out. My cost out the door $396.93. They ate the one they destroyed and gave me $215 each in trade for the 3 left.
I read all the reviews and the Michelin is a far better tire. And the little nuisance vibration at 66-68 MPH is GONE. I tried to get VW to address that and it was just not a big enough problem to keep going back for. So it was one of those stinking Goodyear Eagles. Good Riddance is what I say.
The wheel lock thingy sounds exactly like something I'd do.
When we picked up the used van a couple of months ago, I didn't crawl under the van to check the spare, but you could sort of tell that it actually had one. The sales guy and I both checked the rear cubby and saw that the jack and tools were there.
Got to NM and had some rattling after emptying our junk into the storage unit so I decided to check to make sure the spare was cranked up snug against the chassis. The one tool with a socket end that's needed to raise and lower the spare was naturally missing from the vinyl pocket.
Luckily Harbor Freight was close so I didn't have to wait weeks or spend $125.
Nice outcome on the new tires!
(We eat tofu - been hearing mixed news about eating canola/rapeseed oil though. Might be better for burning in your diesel. Mostly stick to olive).
I really do not know if it needs to be said or is even on topic, but almost all to most of the issues seem to be NON diesel related, especially in the context of DIESEL/gasser/gasser-hybrid LIKE models.
@stever said:
The wheel lock thingy sounds exactly like something I'd do.
When we picked up the used van a couple of months ago, I didn't crawl under the van to check the spare, but you could sort of tell that it actually had one. The sales guy and I both checked the rear cubby and saw that the jack and tools were there.
Got to NM and had some rattling after emptying our junk into the storage unit so I decided to check to make sure the spare was cranked up snug against the chassis. The one tool with a socket end that's needed to raise and lower the spare was naturally missing from the vinyl pocket.
Luckily Harbor Freight was close so I didn't have to wait weeks or spend $125.
Nice outcome on the new tires!
(We eat tofu - been hearing mixed news about eating canola/rapeseed oil though. Might be better for burning in your diesel. Mostly stick to olive).
I made sure I put the wheel lock device in the little spot VW provides for it. That was kind of traumatic. You would think Discount Tire would have tools to get that one lug nut per wheel out. They send it to a shop that uses a torch to cut it out.
I agree on using olive oil. Not sure about using crop land to make biodiesel. I think more time and money needs to be spent on algae to biodiesel. Leave our diminishing crop lands for growing FOOD.
You would think Discount Tire would have tools to get that one lug nut per wheel out. They send it to a shop that uses a torch to cut it out.
The one time this happened to me, my son lost the key to the locking lug nuts on his Ranger. I dropped by a machine shop (happened to know the owner), and he took a big hammer and a chisel. A couple of whacks, and it was all over.
@stever said:
Good point - haven't even seen any reports of diesel owners winding up with gas in their tanks by mistake.
That being said there are interesting comparisons and contrasts. The GLK 350/250 B/T both seem to have the same 7 speed A/T transmission. The engine "MATCH UP" might be telling: A 3.5 L V6 (gasser) vs a 2.1 T TDI. (ULSD)., the gasser being 2 cylinders more and 1.4 L bigger. The diesel despite being smaller has more torque and gets better mpg.
@Mr_Shiftright said:
THAT would possibly be a fatal mistake!
The Mobil station I filled at yesterday only had two diesel pumps. One had a yellow boot and the other a Green. Must be a shortage of Green boots. I dread going to Oregon where they do not allow self serve. I will watch them with an Eagle eye. Last time I had an Oregon station attendant fill a diesel was my 2005 Passat TDI. The kid stretched the hose to get to the tank and busted the filler flap. Which was plastic on the Passat. Not a cheap mistake for his boss.
It is simpler to be an "air head" over here ! My guess is fueling a gasser with diesel is probably more prevalent than fueling a diesel with gasoline, even as the opposite is the option that is more "newsworthy".
I do say it is a costly remediation, when that option (misfiling) is chosen.
I do have to say I miss the separate diesel pump and fueling area on the newer concept stations.
@gagrice said:
I agree on using olive oil. Not sure about using crop land to make biodiesel. I think more time and money needs to be spent on algae to biodiesel. Leave our diminishing crop lands for growing FOOD.
Where is the wheel lock location for VW? The dealer installed mine...
Indeed the location for the Passat may be different. Before you need (it) to access it is probably a good time to verify EXACTLY where it might be located AND if it is indeed there.
@ruking1 said:
Indeed the location for the Passat may be different. Before you need (it) to access it is probably a good time to verify EXACTLY where it might be located AND if it is indeed there.
Comments
Since I have had VW's TDI/'s for over a decade (12 MY's), I didn't think I'd be saying this, but I agree with you about improved (improvement in) dealer networks. Additionally, I do have MB to compare VW's ' with.
This, of course reminds me that I have anecdotal and sotp's experiences with 4 diesel pp.'s ( 1.9, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0 L) and 4 transmissions (5 speed M/T, 6 speed DSG, 7 speed A/T, 8 speed A/T).
I do not have ownership experiences with the 6 speed M/T, but do like it very much, from what I do know.
I think VW better than any of the others has pinpointed where the money is in the USA. Not in the low end markets. It is the Silicon Valley billionaires that are setting the auto buying trend. Look at what is selling well in the lower brackets. Cheap CUVs to the retiring boomers. Most boomers are not going to spend $50k to $80k on a high end CUV when they can buy a RAV4, Escape or CRV for half the price. As for service and reliability, I think Porsche is always near the top of the list.
Bottom line, VW passed GM in total world sales last year and was nipping at Toyota heels. And most important for their future, they made a lot of money in the process.
VW has long had "Silicon Valley, "skunk werks," circa 1998. Now I can not point to skunkwerks CA. signature touches in the VW line, but suffice to say it is EXPENSIVE to maintain the presence , especially if it is NOT contributing to the bottom line.
Our local VW GTG group got exposure to it (years ago) @ Stanford U, CA with the then DARPA entry (10 cylinder Touareg TDI) for remote vehicle operation, desert torture testing. VW eventually WON this competition. Needless to say, one of the goals of the use and conception, invention of technologies are incremental to TOTAL disruptiveness. Here is the web site primer http://www.vwerl.com/silicon-valley
SoCa for whatever reasons made it enticing for its Toyota, Honda and Nissan (hope I am not leaving anyone else they enticed OUT) bases to LEAVE after decades of US based operations !!!!
Only 3 cars are really AMERICAN? With the rest really .... JAPANESE ?????
http://time.com/money/2945725/american-made-cars-ford-toyota/
The second shock for buyers who switched to Audi from Toyota is going to be the cost of maintenance and repairs, especially just out of warranty.
The 03 TDI's did not have the (gasser specific) ignition coils, thus avoiding the overhead falling swords all together. Further TMI includes (Hidden in the V6 reference) are the diesels clutch upgrade path and somewhat the spring and suspension and brake pad and rotor upgrades.
So, just to recap here: VW sales in the US were down 22% for the month of June, so they lower incentives for July, thus raising prices. This sounds like a really good plan for ending the sales slump.
NOT!
It is actually true, albeit not how YOU would/might run the railroad.!! ?? However, what is hard to argue against: Gagrice's post about the (high and higher) VW world wide posted profit/s !!!
They have also done this CONSISTENTLY. So for example, during the US 2008/2009 "CARMEGEDDON" (10.6 M yearly sales vs a more normal 14 to 16 M yearly sales) (world wide also) VW WW made BILLIONS of dollar while those LARGE OEMS, aka, Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler (smaller also), all to most LOST billions of dollars, the deltas' here being HUGE !!!
Most of course know about the GM taxpayer bail out, how close FORD came to the EDGE and sales of Chrysler to FIAT. Anyone can google the results that I am talking about.
Interesting, I had not heard of ERL. Makes sense as most automakers have US groups for input. Sounds like a fun place to work.
I think the tax payers have been duped with the GM/C bailout. The biggest selling GM products are their PU trucks. For MY 2014 the Silverado/Sierra only have 40% US content. Mexico gets all the automaking jobs from Government Motors and we get all their illegal aliens. Fiat has done a little better than GM in keeping and increasing jobs in the USA. Jeep and Ram are keeping them in business here.
This is SO 10 hours ago !! ??
VW takes Passat upscale to escape mid-market malaise
Reuters
10 hours ago
TBD in US markets
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vw-takes-passat-upscale-escape-075842217.html
king, that's VERY funny, if you're saying that VWs are reliable because you compared their reliability with that of a MercedesBenz ! chortle!
(my experience is with about 30 new cars, including 100k miles on a new mercedes, and ~500k on 6 new volkswagens including 4 TDIs).
To wit, IF you are saying that MB is more to totally reliable and durable just because it is a MB, there are any % and number of MB owners that truly would not agree with that sentiment. Owner reviews on the GLK MY were not all that glowing. So if you are saying I will have a totally flawless experience because it IS an MB diesel, well ... perhaps I would take that as your well wishes and caviar dreams ! I would also thank you for those well wishes !!!
I am not sure how and why you came to the conclusions about what I said that you did. However, if you are having FAR better luck with the MB line, it does beg the question why you ever got anything else BUT MB TDI's. But hey, this is not a totally serious thread. But yes @ like miles, the MB GLK 250 B/T has been utterly flawless. But so have the three other TDI's , which happen to be VW's. I also have 310,000 miles on 3 VW TDI's. I am hoping for easily 310,000 miles MORE . I am hoping to beat all the crappy experiences that a lot of my friends (who have/still owned MB's) have warned me against. So give me 95,000 to 115,000 more miles on the MB GLK 250 B/T and we will see if my experiences matches yours, AND defies theirs.
But then again ANY late model car should be able to go 100,000 to 120,000 miles with only a major tune and scheduled maintenance: hopefully LONG before then warranty issues have been resolved. I would expect no less from the MB 250 B/T. My friends (MB owners) think I am cruisin for a brusin. I hope to beat their statistics.
Took a night leg UP (8:45 pm) on the SOS/DD trek (210 miles) . The wife packed the GLK to the gills !! ?? Caught a few localized rolling parking lot zones. Even had the A/C on for part of the way. After traffic feathered off and routes opened up, the GLK 250 B/T posted 38 mpg. (for 169 miles) on the up route. Again I kept it @ app 80-86 mph, bursts to 90mph. Glad I am usually out of the way, when the local LEO's shoot past (while I probably should not admit this, OLD Fogie here) ! The over all mpg dropped to more like 35/36, once I included/climbed the mountains. (7,382 ft. Echo Summit) For as much traffic/s as there were in the rolling parking lot zones, there was almost nobody in the mountains! ? Even hit a few late night construction delays.
Happy 4th of July to all !!!
Is the Touareg TDI wasting away in the garage? You seem to be spending more time behind the wheel of the GLK BT. I will say they are fun to drive. Not sure they would be as comfy as a 650 mile day in the Touareg.
LOL ! Yes, During the break in phase ! Getting used to it and "wringing it out for (potential) warranty issues seems to be getting the attention. I am over due a 5,000 miles tire rotation, new car inspection and Ad Blue top off. I think the commuters (wife) would probably like to do the commute in the MB GLK 250 B/T, as it gets pretty close to the Jetta TDI's 41 mpg, allows sitting higher and the ability to conduct (ore comfortably) telephonic meetings and computer use for 2/3 folks.
While I really like it and things are going very well, I do prefer the Touareg ! I also would agree, over all and over more miles, the Touareg is a lot more comfortable, front and rear. It would seem that both you and I have gotten pretty good examples (as close to flawless as one standards would dictate and allow?) The Touareg TDI seems to be great bang for the buck (if one has need/want for a midsize CUV) and on many levels.
For any Prairie Home fans, this commercial won a bunch of awards. "The concept behind Grrr arose from an anecdote about Honda's chief engine designer, Kenichi Nagahiro. Nagahiro detested the noise, smell, and appearance of diesel engines, and when asked to design the company's first diesel engine, he flatly refused unless he was allowed to start completely from scratch." Grrr - Wikipedia.
The commercial that got all the press in the US though was the Cog one.
The irony with all the free Media hype given the darling Honda, their engineers could not make it as clean as the German big 3. The Japanese should just forget their big egos and ask for help building a clean diesel engine. Instead they build and sell them in the EU. 10 years later Honda has not gained any market share with their poorly designed hybrids. And cannot build a car today that will get as good a mileage as in the 1980s. Honda should just pack up and go home.
It is interesting in the context of Honda setting the high bar years ago with the smaller (gasser) I-4 cylinder.
Just in casual conversations with the owners of the 13 Lexus ES 300 H (2.5 L 4 cylinder hybrid with app 27,000 miles, avg being 39.1,) the SOS/DD trek let them post 34 mpg (65-70 mph) on the upgrade. It does make me wonder what I would post in that vehicle doing the SOS/DD up/down R/T, driven like any of the diesels.
39.1 MPG would be the high end of the spectrum from those posting on Fuelly. 2013 average for the 38 ES300h posted is 36.3 MPG. Which is a heck of a lot better than the 24.4 MPG posted for the ES350 gassers from the same year. I wonder how many people buying the Hybrid model whine about the $3,000 premium.
Just recommended the GLK250 BT to a friend. There is NO premium with the Mercedes diesel. It is 500 bucks less than the gas hog V6. She is trading in her Escalade and thinks she can get a good deal on the SRX. She knows it is still a gas hog. Bought lots of Caddies which is a hard addiction to break I guess.
We did some high desert trips with the Lexus ES350 owner as passenger in the MB 250 B/T. She's a former MB owner, so there was that perspective. She was surprise at the diesels' ability to take a hammering UP and down grade AND post the mpg posted. She noted that I did not use brakes at all (well occasionally) in long downgrades despite traffic and LLCer's.
Just filled the GLK 250 B/T for an R/T ( round trip) SOS/DD (418 miles) . Actually, just looking for the low fuel lamp to light ( to post on this thread and look for the EDGE) and it lit (@ app 15 gals/15.6 capacity, 532 miles when it was filled) for 35.67 mpg.
Funny part (for the thread) was a one hour meeting @ 85 mph in the "commute" lane, (not mine, I would not even think about TALKING on the phone while driving) also had a few other shorter meetings. We (later) stopped somewhere (GPS knew the way) in Sacramento, CA to see a (sub) contractor and conduct a few more meetings. It was fixing to hit 110 F today. Ops, I forgot the A/C was blasting (UP/DOWN grades). All in all a pretty productive ride home and I only had to pass a few cars in the mountains. (actually WAY safer that way) Wife also mentioned she liked the 12 VW Touareg better in the mountains. It also is able to take a lot more "stuff" and had a lot more interior room. To her, the Toureg handled much better.
So the real (FULL) range (and cumulative mpg, for a FULL (aka, pretty close) tank full) was stop and go commute/holiday driving, higher speed freeway driving (low/high altitude) , Zero to 7,388 ft (curvy mountain driving, high altitude stop and go driving.
I trust one and all had a GREAT July 4th !!!!
I am also thinking that a suburban freeway commute is also the sweet spot for that gasser hybrid combination. I know they very carefully drive to maximize fuel economy. I do not know this for sure but it would seem the ES350 H is also an outlier purchase and those folks balk @ the 3k premium.
So for me, major PLUS'es for the diesels. There is a lot less (acquisition) premium.
Not to belabor the point, but if I drove the diesels like folks very careful to maximize fuel economy in a gasser hybrid, mpg would be WAY better in the diesels.
Fuelly lists 5 cars for a 29 mpg for the 14 GLK 250 B/T. RANGE is between 29 to 34 mpg.
In comparison to the other 5 fully.com posts, this latest tank full is an "outlier" @ 35.67 mpg.
Which again proves how screwed up the EPA tests are with diesels. I know in my Touareg it is not easy to get below 25 MPG with mostly city driving. And that is above the combined rating by the EPA. For someone to get 20 MPG as rated EPA city they would have to be using the T-Reg as a street racer. After 14,000 miles my overall fuel savings coming from the Toyota Sequoia is 46%. That savings paid for 5 nights at Hampton Inns this last trip. Looking forward to a trip to Oregon this Fall.
PS
Just checking Gas Buddy for Oregon. Two of our destinations have diesel at $3.45 per gallon. That is at least 50 cents cheaper than here. And their RUG prices are about 25 cents higher than diesel. I love the smell of diesel in the Morning.
(To state the obvious AGAIN, for the wider audience)
I think also that when you go either or both of what mph, gasser and gasser hybrids are optimized for and/or recommended LOW speeds: MPG falls a LOT. Diesels even @ much higher mph, optimized for freeway/autobahn speeds yield far BETTER mpg.
Again needless to say, the operative effect is actually far GREATER RUG/PUG consumption, even as LESS consumption is the advertised mantra.
So just using the GLK 350 @ app 20 mpg and the GLK 250 B/T like model (anecdotal) @ 35.67, the T TDI gets app 78% better fuel mpg or uses minus- 44% less. So using a higher yearly avg of 15,000 miles the use is 750 gals vs 421 gals. The easy and fastest answers are literally hidden in plain sight. To take it to the TMI level SUPPOSED the GLK has a E85 model. Given 33% less mpg or 13.4 mpg that converts to 1119 gals of E85.
Another is the escalator of increasing energy prices besides PVF fueling. If anything increases in housing related energy seems to be the real goal.
And from Brazil: deutschland über alles
?
You must not be engaged in the World Cup....
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
That's a football (not futbol) score.
The fumes finally got to Brazil from making all that biodiesel.
(hey, it's sort of on topic...).
Well I don't think this is the clash and the triumph of ULSD over E85 to 100% ethanol ?
Or, .... is it?
However, USE even 10% ethanol and mpg figures ( RUG/PUG) in gassers and gasser/hybrids gets TRASHED. This does not even include the app 15% seasonal variations.
E85 burners seem to post 33% less mpg than even a gasser RUG/PUG, less than even that for gasser hybrids . USE E 85 in RUG/PUG burners and you have REAL problems.
ULSD ? GOOAAAAAL Nothing but NET !!!! ???
yeah, whenever I think of "diesel" I think of Germany. Weird, I know....but after all, it IS named after Rudolf Diesel.
Ironic, isn't it, that Mr. Diesel planned to run his engine on vegetable matter? Wasn't it palm oil?
Pro Sports the Opiate of the masses. To show how few people in the USA care about goofy soccer, fewer people watch the World Cup than own diesels. Aren't all of Brazils cars mandated to run on E100? Could be why they got blown out by the Germans that know diesel is the superior fuel to ethanol. Ethanol people are slow learners. The good part is we may get our corn back for tortillas.
“The scenario that we had a half-decade ago is not what we have anymore,” said Mauricio Muruci, who analyzes the ethanol industry here. “We are not thinking about ethanol in our future. We are thinking about pre-salt oil and shale gas.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/brazils-ethanol-sector-once-thriving-is-being-buffeted-by-forces-both-man-made-natural/2014/01/01/9587b416-56d7-11e3-bdbf-097ab2a3dc2b_story.html
Left before the finish - was that a "gift" goal to Brazil that messed up the football score?
The biodiesel production is set to surge down there. I thought it was already ramped up pretty high. (biofuels-news.com)
TMI on the 14 MB 250 B/T's first 5,000 miles dealer (2 included) service. (@ app 6.2 k miles, aka LATE) The real actions are:
It is really more of a customer's meet and greet. The car is still on the OEM oil and oil filter.
While I am (still) not a "run flat tires" fan, tire wear seems encouraging. @ 6.2 k miles, the tires show only (less than actually) .25 /32nd in. (9.75/32nd in remaining, actually more) IF wear continues at this rate, wear per 1/32 nds = will be @ least 20 k to 25 k miles per.
I also seem to have bypassed app 6 to 7 of the models frustrating "issues. " Only one is diesel related.
Good use for Soy Beans. I Hate TOFU. Though from what I have read Rape makes better biodiesel. Looks like Soy Beans are the world leading biodiesel crop.
http://www.berkeleybiodiesel.org/biodiesel-fuel-feedstocks-a-review-from.html
I now have new tires on the Touareg. While cleaning my windows this morning I noticed a nail head on one of my tires. Not wanting to pull it out to find out if it was all the way through I headed down to my Trusty Discount Tire store. They were packed as usual and as soon as he moved the nail it started to leak. No problem we will fix it. After an hour in the waiting room our vehicle headed for the rack. Oh, I forgot. I could not find the wheel lock thingy. After searching every little cranny in the vehicle the sales guy found it right where I had tossed it when we had a flat in KY. Without that gadget you are NOT going to get the tire off. A new one has to be ordered from VW and takes time and $125. Anyway the young fellow pulls off the tire with the nail and proceeds to let the air out. When he is sure it is all out (while I am watching through the window) he goes to break the bead with this paddle device. OOOOPS, it goes through the side wall of the Goodyear tire. After two or three people including the boss look at it they come to give me the news I already knew. Discount Tire being the reputable company they are will replace the tire. Problem is there are no Goodyear Eagle LS2 265/50R19XL in So CA. With all the head scratching I knew the next step, offer a full set at a reduced price. Bottom line, I got a new set of Michelin 255/55R19 111V Latitude Touring XL tires for about $1000 less than if I walked in wanting to buy. These are likely the tire I would have bought when the Goodyears were worn out. My cost out the door $396.93. They ate the one they destroyed and gave me $215 each in trade for the 3 left.
I read all the reviews and the Michelin is a far better tire. And the little nuisance vibration at 66-68 MPH is GONE. I tried to get VW to address that and it was just not a big enough problem to keep going back for. So it was one of those stinking Goodyear Eagles. Good Riddance is what I say.
Life is good and so are the new tires, great outcome !!!
The wheel lock thingy sounds exactly like something I'd do.
When we picked up the used van a couple of months ago, I didn't crawl under the van to check the spare, but you could sort of tell that it actually had one. The sales guy and I both checked the rear cubby and saw that the jack and tools were there.
Got to NM and had some rattling after emptying our junk into the storage unit so I decided to check to make sure the spare was cranked up snug against the chassis. The one tool with a socket end that's needed to raise and lower the spare was naturally missing from the vinyl pocket.
Luckily Harbor Freight was close so I didn't have to wait weeks or spend $125.
Nice outcome on the new tires!
(We eat tofu - been hearing mixed news about eating canola/rapeseed oil though. Might be better for burning in your diesel. Mostly stick to olive).
I really do not know if it needs to be said or is even on topic, but almost all to most of the issues seem to be NON diesel related, especially in the context of DIESEL/gasser/gasser-hybrid LIKE models.
Good point - haven't even seen any reports of diesel owners winding up with gas in their tanks by mistake.
I made sure I put the wheel lock device in the little spot VW provides for it. That was kind of traumatic. You would think Discount Tire would have tools to get that one lug nut per wheel out. They send it to a shop that uses a torch to cut it out.
I agree on using olive oil. Not sure about using crop land to make biodiesel. I think more time and money needs to be spent on algae to biodiesel. Leave our diminishing crop lands for growing FOOD.
The one time this happened to me, my son lost the key to the locking lug nuts on his Ranger. I dropped by a machine shop (happened to know the owner), and he took a big hammer and a chisel. A couple of whacks, and it was all over.
That being said there are interesting comparisons and contrasts. The GLK 350/250 B/T both seem to have the same 7 speed A/T transmission. The engine "MATCH UP" might be telling: A 3.5 L V6 (gasser) vs a 2.1 T TDI. (ULSD)., the gasser being 2 cylinders more and 1.4 L bigger. The diesel despite being smaller has more torque and gets better mpg.
THAT would possibly be a fatal mistake!
Seems rather common over the pond. Supposedly happens every three minutes over there, unless the ad sites are puffing. (rac.co.uk)
The Mobil station I filled at yesterday only had two diesel pumps. One had a yellow boot and the other a Green. Must be a shortage of Green boots. I dread going to Oregon where they do not allow self serve. I will watch them with an Eagle eye. Last time I had an Oregon station attendant fill a diesel was my 2005 Passat TDI. The kid stretched the hose to get to the tank and busted the filler flap. Which was plastic on the Passat. Not a cheap mistake for his boss.
It is simpler to be an "air head" over here ! My guess is fueling a gasser with diesel is probably more prevalent than fueling a diesel with gasoline, even as the opposite is the option that is more "newsworthy".
I do say it is a costly remediation, when that option (misfiling) is chosen.
I do have to say I miss the separate diesel pump and fueling area on the newer concept stations.
Where is the wheel lock location for VW? The dealer installed mine...
There is a spot molded into the spare compartment in back. The spare is deflated. There is a pump and various tools for changing the tire.
Indeed the location for the Passat may be different. Before you need (it) to access it is probably a good time to verify EXACTLY where it might be located AND if it is indeed there.
The location is pretty much the same for my 2008 Passat. Even including the strange little twisty looking tool for removing the lug nut covers.
I'll take a look before our next trip. Thanks.