I actually would seriously consider a Diesel Corvette ! To say I would probably be an outlier (diesel) of an already outlier (performance), outlier (sports) outlier (7 speed MT) niche market would be a no brainer (there are extra outlier categories here).
I am thinking without GM saying it, they are not interested in selling 20% diesel (7k units of 35k) Corvettes, with less than 20% of those possibly being 7 speed MT's (1,400) . I mean really, who does NOT get that ????
I say revive the "I Hate SUV's (CUV's) Why Don't You ? thread !!!! If anyone hadn't noticed, the segments and sizes are HOT HOT HOT or so say the automotive pundits !!!
my preference for torque&performance&stickshifts has me looking away from diesels....
i think it's unusual to talk about diesel vehicles in USA as being fast/performance vehicles just because diesels have lots of torque. . diesels are slooooooooow compared to actual fast/quick/zippy/handling cars.
if i were shopping for a nonperformance stickshift car, i would find another diesel disincentive to be the adblue/regen/dpf - just more stuff/software/sensors to break.
What you fail to realize is you are in an even smaller minority than those of US that like diesel vehicles. The reason you cannot find many stick shift cars is two fold. First automatics are now as efficient and second most people don't want to be shifting all the time.
We could argue all day on which is faster. Where I am concerned about speed I have found the VW TDI to be much faster. Faster than my V8 gas Sequoia, and faster than our LS400 V8 gasser. Passing on a two lane from 50-90 MPH, the VW V6 TDI will blow the wheels off a Toy/Lex V8. Cruising the Interstate at 80 MPH up hill and down, the TDI does not need to downshift like our Sequoia V8 gasser. And it gets nearly twice the miles per gallon. There is a reason that Audi, BMW and Mercedes are offering more and more diesel models. They sell well. If the Japanese engineers ever catch up with the Germans they will find a market they are missing out on. For me and most people I know 0-60 MPH is a meaningless factor in the purchasing of a vehicle. Racing from stop lights is for kids. Diesel engines offers better cruisability than any comparably sized gas engine.
Adding AdBlue is not much different than adding windshield washer fluid. With my VW it is free the first 48K miles.
Eh, not really. Hard to argue with test results. All the better automatics out now are faster than their manual counterparts. The holdouts being some older slushboxes and the CVT offerings.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
For those of us who are active participants on the CHRONIC CAR BUYERS ANONYMOUS board, resale value plays a big role in our habit since we tend to keep cars for slightly less time than the average person. A car's resale value helps determine when your break even point will be on a loan (whether you have equity or are under water) or if you are looking to get out of a lease early... Kiplinger's recently named the 2015 VW Golf TDI to its list of "2015 New Cars With The Highest Resale Value."
The Golf TDI took the honors in the $20K to $25K price range. They predicted its resale value after 3 years would be 64% and after 5 years would be 50%. Impressive no doubt if you follow any of the "lease questions" boards here on edmunds.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
This is further outlier and CONJECTURE on my part. (most folks probably consider it way OFF TOPIC)
IF (and big if) either/both the 12 VW TDI and MB GLK 250 BT were 7 speed MT equipped, I am sure that the RANGEs of mpg would be better AND I could probably post even BETTER MPG. than either 8/7 speed AT.
For those of us who are active participants on the CHRONIC CAR BUYERS ANONYMOUS board, resale value plays a big role in our habit since we tend to keep cars for slightly less time than the average person. A car's resale value helps determine when your break even point will be on a loan (whether you have equity or are under water) or if you are looking to get out of a lease early... Kiplinger's recently named the 2015 VW Golf TDI to its list of "2015 New Cars With The Highest Resale Value."
The Golf TDI took the honors in the $20K to $25K price range. They predicted its resale value after 3 years would be 64% and after 5 years would be 50%. Impressive no doubt if you follow any of the "lease questions" boards here on edmunds.
I would not have gotten the 2003 Jetta TDI if predicted resale value/s were not high 12 years ago !! FF to 2015, the resale value has exceeded those lofty expectations !!!! So from that point of view, I am STILL a happy camper. The 03 JSW has even HIGHER resale values.
OFF topic, the 2004 Civic also has kept high resale values. It was bought because the VW AT @ the time, did not make economic sense against the AT (in the Civic).
And you have seen me post that I thought Subaru WAS/ is probably one of the best made (Japanese) line in American markets. Too bad they do not see fit to bring in their diesels.
You either need to lobby for Subie diesels or and AWD TDI Golf for me. Although the way this winter is going, If I wasn't so lazy I could definitely get by with snow tires & 2WD (either FWD or RWD). It is already February and we've got the threat of snow until maybe the middle of March?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
Kind of (pleasantly) surprised that I dodged that bullet with my '97. If they had so much trouble getting them right in a gasser, I'm not sure I'd want a diesel boxer.
Word on the net is that the 6L Powerstroke has the same kind of reputation.
You either need to lobby for Subie diesels or and AWD TDI Golf for me. Although the way this winter is going, If I wasn't so lazy I could definitely get by with snow tires & 2WD (either FWD or RWD). It is already February and we've got the threat of snow until maybe the middle of March?
Subaru on the LEFT coast has an almost cult like following.
@ruking1
You either need to lobby for Subie diesels or and AWD TDI Golf for me. Although the way this winter is going, If I wasn't so lazy I could definitely get by with snow tires & 2WD (either FWD or RWD). It is already February and we've got the threat of snow until maybe the middle of March?
Subaru on the LEFT coast has an almost cult like following.
Well, I did get the Valntine's gift early !! NEW sexy SHOOS in black !!!
( 09 VW Jetta tires @ 89,000 miles) (I really didn't think the OBUMMER bait and switch "tax cut" would pay for it!! IT would have been nice however) The $1.00 per gal savings @ 41 mpg would have taken 1.46 YEARS to acquire. Oh well, commute on.
I can see why you all think I am pollyanna ! It's still $2.99 !! $2.65 where there is no snow on the ground in a ski resort area ! But hey, no good deed goes unpunished !!
I was reading in another article
(WSJ has that under United Steelworkers Union Tells Members to Strike at Major U.S. Refineries U.S. Refiners, Union Failed to Reach a Deal by Deadline Early Sunday )
that the American people also were not fooled. Bottom line: they are/were NOT spending their fuel savings in the consumer sectors. So, my take is that to base a gasser decision solely on the fact that gas right now has a greater discount to diesel, might at the very least,...TIGHTEN.
The local evening news said that this may turn out to be one of the BIGGEST USW (United Steel Workers) union refineries strikes in 35 years. They said it has the potential of affecting up to 200 + refineries in the USA. One local refinery is already being struck. It will be interesting tomorrow to see on CNBC what the talking heads will report.
hi, i'm posting because I enjoyed driving VW TDIs a total of 400k miles back in the old-days when it was cost-effective and reliable (2001->2011). It's useful for folks to know that diesel vehicles in USA are neither cost-effective nor reliable like they used to be. The disappearance of the diesel cost advantage is obvious, no need to explain that. As for reliability: current USA diesels are less reliable than they used to be due to AdBlue and other emissions chokage/fail,. Adblue is yet another fuel to freeze every winter and strand drivers. Gasoline doesn't freeze. Works great in all these blizzards we're having. Catch you folks later, I'm going outside to protest global climate change by occupying my snow shovel.
elias: Adblue is yet another fuel to freeze every winter and strand drivers. Gasoline doesn't freeze. Works great in all these blizzards we're having. Catch you folks later, I'm going outside to protest global climate change by occupying my snow shovel.
First off I spent 25 years working in the Arctic which gets colder than any other place in the 48 contiguous states. Diesel was always the engine of choice. They are just more efficient in cold temperatures. We also ran number one diesel year round as that is what BP/SOHIO produced locally. AdBlue came about after I retired so I had to see if your statement was true. It will freeze but not leave you stranded. It also makes up for its minimal cost with improved fuel mileage. What is your basis for saying diesels are less reliable due to SCR and AdBlue? I follow diesels pretty close and found the opposite to be true. I understand the VW has a heater on their AdBlue tanks. Thankfully I don't have to put up with freezing weather anymore.
What if AdBlue freezes? It won’t freeze completely until it reaches -11°C. It starts freezing at -10°C. Freezing does not affect its performance once thawed. Also, AdBlue® tanks tend to be next to exhausts, which keep the temperature of the contents above freezing when the engine is running. Where the AdBlue® tank is situated elsewhere, it is heated using engine coolant which is circulated through the tank.
hi, i'm posting because I enjoyed driving VW TDIs a total of 400k miles back in the old-days when it was cost-effective and reliable (2001->2011). It's useful for folks to know that diesel vehicles in USA are neither cost-effective nor reliable like they used to be. The disappearance of the diesel cost advantage is obvious, no need to explain that. As for reliability: current USA diesels are less reliable than they used to be due to AdBlue and other emissions chokage/fail,. Adblue is yet another fuel to freeze every winter and strand drivers. Gasoline doesn't freeze. Works great in all these blizzards we're having. Catch you folks later, I'm going outside to protest global climate change by occupying my snow shovel.
TDI miles are @ app 350,000. I do only have less than 68,000 miles on post 2011 TDI's. Those mileages have been utterly flawless. So to match your mileage (400,000) in POST 2011 TDI's, my swag would be app another 10 years (332k). IF the boards are still here and of interest, I can keep posting. My experiences, while not too far afield from YOU (400,000 miles) pre 2011 experiences have perspectives critically different from yours. So going forward, there is ALSO totally different perspective/s.
YES I am very happy with my PRE (and POST ) 2011 TDI mileages ! TDI's SEEMED to be less reliable in the "old days" IF what I was reading and seeing other folks anecdotal experiences were any indicaters. It could be considered (to me) really a STRETCH to have started with the 2003 Jetta TDI !!
There are "constant" improvement" initiatives. Reliability and durability of TDI's seems to be getting better. But since you SEEM to be saying you are out of TDI's, I am also ok with your stories of the good old days. In short, I can post in another 332,000 miles for the post 2011 experiences to match your 400,000 miles PRE 2011 experiences.
You have been utterly tone deaf as to the cost per mile driven fuel, going FORWARD (even as you begrudgingly acknowledge it in your past). The posted formulas, prices and math speak for themselves. Anyone can run them for themselves or NOT.
But to reiterate, I have absolutely no issues with anyone choosing to paying more, getting less mpg, etc. in short, ones' choice. So, all the best in your gassers. I wish I had the experiences I have had in diesels, in my GASSERS.
However, I think there is an understanding that BETTER mpg and LOWER cost per mile driven fuel, DIESEL are not major to even minor drivers/motivators in the SWITCH to diesel dynamics, IF 95% RUG/PUG PVF is any indication. with less than 2.5% of the DIESEL PVF being CARS. Or in your case, the switch BACK to gassers.
On the other hand, the requirement of more expensive PUG give a lot of folks "gas". ??? ( pun conveys meaning here) PUG PVF here is estimated @ 8 to 10% of PVF.
So I think it is DEFACTO more than obvious that less than 2.5% diesel CARS do way less cumulative mileages than the 95% + majority of RUG/PUG US PVF.
That is 14 F. Not very cold at all - pretty much every morning would start with frozen adblue during the winter in South Dakota ) (-10 F last night). How well does the car run when the adblue is frozen? It must still run otherwise I can't imagine them selling in Northern states.
Looked further down in that article and it says you have 60% of torque if adblue is out (or frozen I presume). I would have 60% torque a lot of the time. When it is really cold my gas accord can run 20 minutes before it even registers on the temp gauge.
That is 14 F. Not very cold at all - pretty much every morning would start with frozen adblue during the winter in South Dakota ) (-10 F last night). How well does the car run when the adblue is frozen? It must still run otherwise I can't imagine them selling in Norther states..
From the TDI Club site, VW AdBlue has a heater that comes on at 12.5 degrees F. There are complaints of failure of the heater and pump. Should be covered 8 years, 80K miles per EPA ruling. All modern cars have expensive stuff to replace if not covered by warranty. I have a Nissan Frontier still under extended warranty. The windshield washer reservoir started leaking. Nissan would not cover it. Cost me $300 to have it replaced. Plastic tank was cheap, they have to remove a fender etc to get to it. Price of owning a vehicle.
I think in many respects the real culprits of decreased reliability and durability are the various "do dahs" on late model vehicles, COMMON to gassers/diesels alike, stand alone and in concert. Everybody knows what this means.
Eh, not really. Hard to argue with test results. All the better automatics out now are faster than their manual counterparts. The holdouts being some older slushboxes and the CVT offerings.
That may be what the manufacturers claim, but they have a vested interest in selling the more expensive automatic.
Lets look at an example of one of the best the PDK in a Porsche 911S. Consumer Reports tested one recently. They are not known for wringing out every drop of performance from a car. They do not spin the tires on launch and start with the engine at idle for their 0-60 runs. They are generally about .5 seconds slower to 60 for most vehicles.
Despite this they got their 911S to 60 in 4.1 seconds. That is .2 seconds faster than the factory claims and equal to what the factory claims for the automatic - not by race car drivers but by engineers from a consumer publication.
There is also no incentive to say the stick is just as fast when the PDK costs $4,000 more, and dealers prefer them because they know everybody can drive one (almost everybody - I can't ).
Lets also consider that 0-60 requires 1 shift. A good driver can shift about as fast as you can snap your fingers. So if the PDK takes no time to shift then it is only a finger snap ahead of the MT. But wait, the PDK weighs 45 lbs more than the MT or about 1.5% more. So to have the same power to weight ratio the PDK would need 6 more hp. A snap vs 6 hp - both are minor, hard to say which is better, but I would take the MT anyday and have $4,000 to play with as well as a car that is more fun to drive.
All of the major car mags have posted their own findings on PDK vs manual and all have admitted the PDK is faster. It is not just shifting, but also, more significantly, the launch. Launch control is an amazing thing that does far far better than any human can. Sure, you may get lucky once in a blue moon with the manual launch, but its nowhere near consistent nor repeatable.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So what was the see-KOO-lee-auk doing in Hawaii? Little vacation time for the crew? Are you going to be able to go out on her? It sounds like quite a ship. Do they use ULSD to make it as clean running as possible? Be sure and read the News articles about OUR new research ship. One of the better uses of our Stimulus cash.
It was over on the east coast (out of Woods Hole) for the summer for marine testing. Then, down to the Caribbean for a couple weeks for more testing of various instruments. They went through Panama and over to Hawaii for its first science cruise (it is a federal ship, so they assign the science cruises based on available ship schedules, the needs of the science, location, etc). They finished that cruise up at year end, I think they did another one for a couple of weeks out of Guam, then they're headed to Alaska.
I hope to get a tour of it when it ports in Seward for the first time in about a month, but, no, I don't get to go out on it. I'm not that special! LOL
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Kind of (pleasantly) surprised that I dodged that bullet with my '97. If they had so much trouble getting them right in a gasser, I'm not sure I'd want a diesel boxer.
Word on the net is that the 6L Powerstroke has the same kind of reputation.
So, are you saying that Subaru is having issues with its diesel boxer engine's head gaskets? They offer this option in all markets except NA, so I'd imagine there are some higher mileage examples out there. I think they came out five years ago now.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Kind of (pleasantly) surprised that I dodged that bullet with my '97. If they had so much trouble getting them right in a gasser, I'm not sure I'd want the boxer diesel.
Word on the net is that the 6L Powerstroke has the same kind of reputation.
So, are you saying that Subaru is having issues with its diesel boxer engine's head gaskets? They offer this option in all markets except NA, so I'd imagine there are some higher mileage examples out there. I think they came out five years ago now.
Directly? NO ! He does say that about US market GASSERS, specifically his own, or that he experiences with. The inference is the gasser design is not unlike the diesels'.
The additional theoretical problem is that no one REALLY knows how a US market boxer diesel (frankensteined for our markets) will perform HERE !
Ah, yes, I know *all* about the HD issues in the EJ25. All too well. But, that's not a problem that affected the WRX engines, which were sand-casted and had substantial buttressing as compared to the normally-aspirated EJ25. And, given the design considerations that went into the diesel engine, I don't expect it is an issue with that block, either.
And, true about the considerations for a US market version. Most likely, it is not a problem that will see an answer, either. *If* they do decide to take the plunge, they'll be a Johnny-Come-Lately by that point.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
So, are you saying that Subaru is having issues with its diesel boxer engine's head gaskets? They offer this option in all markets except NA, so I'd imagine there are some higher mileage examples out there. I think they came out five years ago now.
They are quite popular in Australia with MT only available. Subaru needs a good 6-8 speed automatic for the added torque of the diesel. The rubber band CVT is just not strong enough.
This is not about diesel, but ..... it really is !!!
So if you can MAKE diesel to B 100 @ ones location, with access to natural gas and chemistry ($1,00 pr gal), rather than DIGGING it out from WEIRD places (middle of nowhere) and transporting it LONG distances to refineries to refine it, transport the finish products LONG distances, AGAIN.... ($1.44 per gal)
..."the nation is entering the “era of personal power.”"...
Energy-Pinching Americans Pose Threat to Power Grid Sluggish Sales Could Deprive Utilities of Revenues to Maintain Vast Network of Generating Plants and High-Voltage Lines
@xwesx, diesels have have higher combustion right? And Subaru has a history. So maybe Subaru is slow to introduce them here until they have proven themselves, since we consumers have a history of lawyering up.
@ruking1, the grid needs to go away, or at least just get localized. It's too easy of a target now as it is, and too expensive to maintain. Kind of like we're stuck with the vestiges of land lines when the "backward" nations leapfrog us and go copperless.
If I were to get another PU truck to replace the Nissan Frontier, I would consider the GM midsize with diesel. No other reason to change. My Frontier gets 17 MPG just as the EPA rated it. It is a far better truck than the Ford Ranger V6 auto it replaced. The only reason to buy a new one is for the better mileage and take a lot of short trips to Costco off the Touareg.
That is 14 F. Not very cold at all - pretty much every morning would start with frozen adblue during the winter in South Dakota ) (-10 F last night). How well does the car run when the adblue is frozen? It must still run otherwise I can't imagine them selling in Norther states..
From the TDI Club site, VW AdBlue has a heater that comes on at 12.5 degrees F. There are complaints of failure of the heater and pump. Should be covered 8 years, 80K miles per EPA ruling. All modern cars have expensive stuff to replace if not covered by warranty. I have a Nissan Frontier still under extended warranty. The windshield washer reservoir started leaking. Nissan would not cover it. Cost me $300 to have it replaced. Plastic tank was cheap, they have to remove a fender etc to get to it. Price of owning a vehicle.
Yes, but does it come on before you start the car? If not the adblue will be a popsicle for almost all of my in town winter driving. I rarely go over 2 miles at a time unless I leave town - not enough time to thaw much of anything.
I rarely go over 2 miles at a time unless I leave town - not enough time to thaw much of anything.
I would not abuse a diesel with that sort of use, even here where it never freezes. I never take the Touareg out of the garage, for less than a 25 mile roundtrip. For local shopping in our village, 2-3 miles each way, I drive the gas PU truck. It is a beater and gets crappy mileage anyway. You need a Nissan Leaf or some other EV type vehicle. I would never recommend a diesel for short little trips. Get a beater..... :@
I rarely go over 2 miles at a time unless I leave town - not enough time to thaw much of anything.
I would not abuse a diesel with that sort of use, even here where it never freezes. I never take the Touareg out of the garage, for less than a 25 mile roundtrip. For local shopping in our village, 2-3 miles each way, I drive the gas PU truck. It is a beater and gets crappy mileage anyway. You need a Nissan Leaf or some other EV type vehicle. I would never recommend a diesel for short little trips. Get a beater..... :@
Didn't realize diesels were so delicate. I put 185,000 miles (at just under 35 mpg) and counting on my '07 Accord with that type of driving. Mostly short in town trips with a couple of long drives every month. Also sparing the TDI from short trips in town kinda pads its mpg stats doesn't it?
..."Yes, but does it come on before you start the car? If not the adblue will be a popsicle for almost all of my in town winter driving. I rarely go over 2 miles at a time unless I leave town - not enough time to thaw much of anything."...
From a (gasser/diesel).02 cent perspectives, if this situation is not tailor made for an EV, what is? (albeit, much more expensive than it has to be) Or,... when is Uber coming to your town?
Sounds even more suited for a bicycle or a brisk walk.
"The latest U.S. Energy Department survey price is $2.831 per gallon, $1.12 less than the same time a year ago and at its lowest level in nearly five years."
VW GTD ? 280 # ft ? 66 + mpg COMBINED? Great Caesar's GHOST !!! What is NOT to like????
IF I got a hold of that, you all's eyes will glaze over from my zzzzzzzzzz ....mundane BETTER than 64 PLUS+mpg dronings on !!!
( in the case that it is NOT expressed in US gal (128 oz, imp = 154 oz)
Does ANY gasser aficionado have ANY remaining doubts that we get diesel DREDGES, so that they can try to say (wear the illusions they ) gassers are anywhere NEAR competitive?
I rarely go over 2 miles at a time unless I leave town - not enough time to thaw much of anything.
I would not abuse a diesel with that sort of use, even here where it never freezes. I never take the Touareg out of the garage, for less than a 25 mile roundtrip. For local shopping in our village, 2-3 miles each way, I drive the gas PU truck. It is a beater and gets crappy mileage anyway. You need a Nissan Leaf or some other EV type vehicle. I would never recommend a diesel for short little trips. Get a beater..... :@
Didn't realize diesels were so delicate. I put 185,000 miles (at just under 35 mpg) and counting on my '07 Accord with that type of driving. Mostly short in town trips with a couple of long drives every month. Also sparing the TDI from short trips in town kinda pads its mpg stats doesn't it?
No not at all !! Why are you ignoring that I have been posting (41 mpg) mpg under conditions OF : city, suburban, country, HEAVY idling, stop/ go, commute, up/down grade, short/long, trips, multiple drivers, etc., etc. ???? Further you have a 6 speed manual vs a 6 speed DSG? (we structurally get worse mpg than M/T) Not a thing wrong with 35 mpg in a gasser 07 Accord ! But if Honda made s 07 Accord diesel getting 30% better fuel mileage (45.5) Would that be better/worse?
AND ...30,000 miles OCI's?
What OCI regiment do you follow with your 07 Accord ? 30,000 miles? OK ! Let's talk turkey.
Less? What a worry wart? Don't want to answer? I will go back to snooze zzzzzzzz.
Taking heads on cable tv indicate SMALL cars have a year to year sales of 19% of yearly sales. I have mentioned in the past that 25% of the PVF SEEM to be small cars. Seems over a longer term, the trend is on a slow growth to BIGGER cars.
Didn't realize diesels were so delicate. I put 185,000 miles (at just under 35 mpg) and counting on my '07 Accord with that type of driving. Mostly short in town trips with a couple of long drives every month. Also sparing the TDI from short trips in town kinda pads its mpg stats doesn't it?
I don't think it is a secret that diesels operate optimally when warmed up. If you keep it in a warm garage or plugged in short trips are probably not an issue. I don't know that padding the TDI mileage has any kind of relevance. I have put over 20k miles on the Touareg in just over a years ownership. That is the most I have ever driven any vehicle I have ever owned. The PU got about 2500 miles last year and the Lexus about 1000 when loaned to family while here on vacation. We used to drive the PU on the Costco runs, 30 miles RT. At today's fuel cost the PU costs about $4 for gas to Costco. The Touareg about $2.80. And the T-reg is far more comfortable on the drive. If I could convince my wife to part with the Lexus for a Golf or Beetle TDI we could cut the cost a lot more. Then we are paying only 18 cents a gallon more for ULSD than RUG. If you are happy driving a gasser, I would NOT try to convince you otherwise. I just have NOT liked the Gas vehicles as much as the diesels I have owned over the last decade.
I think the Colorado diesel is going to be a great truck. I just don't know how well it will be received by the market. You guys know that while I don't drive a diesel car (well, our company truck is a 2006 Mitsubishi Fuso FE180 Diesel) that I am a diesel admirer. Once you load up a Colorado with some options & packages (like the one they show on the commercials and gave to Tom Brady for being the Super Bowl MVP), it is very easy to get it into the high $30 - very close to $40K sticker. I just fear that a diesel engine would bring a $4000 price premium to an already expensive truck and they'll only offer it on the higher end models. With pickups, once you cross into that low $40K price point, a full sized Silverado with rebates up the wazoo isn't too far off. There's the "wow, I can get 30 MPG with this diesel truck," but then there is "wow, I can get $10K off the sticker of this full sized truck that will get me 20 mpg." Just playing devil's advocate here:)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
I think the Colorado diesel is going to be a great truck. I just don't know how well it will be received by the market. You guys know that while I don't drive a diesel car (well, our company truck is a 2006 Mitsubishi Fuso FE180 Diesel) that I am a diesel admirer. Once you load up a Colorado with some options & packages (like the one they show on the commercials and gave to Tom Brady for being the Super Bowl MVP), it is very easy to get it into the high $30 - very close to $40K sticker. I just fear that a diesel engine would bring a $4000 price premium to an already expensive truck and they'll only offer it on the higher end models. With pickups, once you cross into that low $40K price point, a full sized Silverado with rebates up the wazoo isn't too far off. There's the "wow, I can get 30 MPG with this diesel truck," but then there is "wow, I can get $10K off the sticker of this full sized truck that will get me 20 mpg." Just playing devil's advocate here:)
While off topic, what mpg would your 2006 Mitsubishi Fuso FE 180 post and IF it were a gasser? How many miles (given whatever factors you are managing for) would you look to post ?
I think the Colorado diesel is going to be a great truck. I just don't know how well it will be received by the market. You guys know that while I don't drive a diesel car (well, our company truck is a 2006 Mitsubishi Fuso FE180 Diesel) that I am a diesel admirer. Once you load up a Colorado with some options & packages (like the one they show on the commercials and gave to Tom Brady for being the Super Bowl MVP), it is very easy to get it into the high $30 - very close to $40K sticker. I just fear that a diesel engine would bring a $4000 price premium to an already expensive truck and they'll only offer it on the higher end models. With pickups, once you cross into that low $40K price point, a full sized Silverado with rebates up the wazoo isn't too far off. There's the "wow, I can get 30 MPG with this diesel truck," but then there is "wow, I can get $10K off the sticker of this full sized truck that will get me 20 mpg." Just playing devil's advocate here:)
This is exactly my line of thinking....I'm a diesel admirer as well but unless I get the Mercedes GLK 250 it's hard to justify the extra cost of a diesel. If money were no object I'd have a Touareg TDI, but sadly money is an object.
I'll talk to my driver and have him reset the trip odometer when he fills up next time.
Thank you !! Some sites data seems to suggest a low of 12 mpg to maybe 20 mpg, for your 160 hp 295 # ft 3.0 L engine.
SORT of related, I saw a piece on Peterbilt/Cummins (apologies in advance, if I am incorrect) touting the relatedness of (synergy?) factors, for a combined new mpg of 10.7 mpg. I have read 4 to 6 mpg is more normal for big rigs/tractor trailers (looked to be long haul). That would be up to 78% better mpg.
Gallonage for 100,000 miles would DROP from 25,000-16,667 TO 9,346 gals !!!! The drop would be a range of app MINUS- 63% to -44%
nyccarguy:There's the "wow, I can get 30 MPG with this diesel truck," but then there is "wow, I can get $10K off the sticker of this full sized truck that will get me 20 mpg." Just playing devil's advocate here:)
I know several people that have looked at those $numbers and bought HD gas PU trucks. Very valid argument. Also the argument of paying close to $40k for a midsized PU truck. I am following the only light duty PU available so far in the USA. The RAM 1500 Eco Diesel. About 178 owners are posting on Fuelly. It looks like an average of 23-24 MPG is very realistic. RAM 1500 gassers are still in the 16-17 MPG range. Some things just never change. A 28-30% increase in mileage would be enough to overcome any price variations from RUG to ULSD. If gassers are discounted far below diesels that would be harder to overcome. The diesel premium is no big deal as it carries over to resale. If they only offer incentives on the gassers they are not so easy to cover.
It's definitely going to be at the lower end of the spectrum as the truck spends the majority of its time (over 90%) driving around the traffic choked streets of New York City (The Bronx & Manhattan).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
Comments
I am thinking without GM saying it, they are not interested in selling 20% diesel (7k units of 35k) Corvettes, with less than 20% of those possibly being 7 speed MT's (1,400) . I mean really, who does NOT get that ????
I say revive the "I Hate SUV's (CUV's) Why Don't You ? thread !!!! If anyone hadn't noticed, the segments and sizes are HOT HOT HOT or so say the automotive pundits !!!
What you fail to realize is you are in an even smaller minority than those of US that like diesel vehicles. The reason you cannot find many stick shift cars is two fold. First automatics are now as efficient and second most people don't want to be shifting all the time.
We could argue all day on which is faster. Where I am concerned about speed I have found the VW TDI to be much faster. Faster than my V8 gas Sequoia, and faster than our LS400 V8 gasser. Passing on a two lane from 50-90 MPH, the VW V6 TDI will blow the wheels off a Toy/Lex V8. Cruising the Interstate at 80 MPH up hill and down, the TDI does not need to downshift like our Sequoia V8 gasser. And it gets nearly twice the miles per gallon. There is a reason that Audi, BMW and Mercedes are offering more and more diesel models. They sell well. If the Japanese engineers ever catch up with the Germans they will find a market they are missing out on. For me and most people I know 0-60 MPH is a meaningless factor in the purchasing of a vehicle. Racing from stop lights is for kids. Diesel engines offers better cruisability than any comparably sized gas engine.
Adding AdBlue is not much different than adding windshield washer fluid. With my VW it is free the first 48K miles.
Eh, not really. Hard to argue with test results. All the better automatics out now are faster than their manual counterparts. The holdouts being some older slushboxes and the CVT offerings.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
For those of us who are active participants on the CHRONIC CAR BUYERS ANONYMOUS board, resale value plays a big role in our habit since we tend to keep cars for slightly less time than the average person. A car's resale value helps determine when your break even point will be on a loan (whether you have equity or are under water) or if you are looking to get out of a lease early... Kiplinger's recently named the 2015 VW Golf TDI to its list of "2015 New Cars With The Highest Resale Value."
The Golf TDI took the honors in the $20K to $25K price range. They predicted its resale value after 3 years would be 64% and after 5 years would be 50%. Impressive no doubt if you follow any of the "lease questions" boards here on edmunds.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
IF (and big if) either/both the 12 VW TDI and MB GLK 250 BT were 7 speed MT equipped, I am sure that the RANGEs of mpg would be better AND I could probably post even BETTER MPG. than either 8/7 speed AT.
OFF topic, the 2004 Civic also has kept high resale values. It was bought because the VW AT @ the time, did not make economic sense against the AT (in the Civic).
WRX
Legacy
Outback
WRX STI
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
You either need to lobby for Subie diesels or and AWD TDI Golf for me. Although the way this winter is going, If I wasn't so lazy I could definitely get by with snow tires & 2WD (either FWD or RWD). It is already February and we've got the threat of snow until maybe the middle of March?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
Kind of (pleasantly) surprised that I dodged that bullet with my '97. If they had so much trouble getting them right in a gasser, I'm not sure I'd want a diesel boxer.
Word on the net is that the 6L Powerstroke has the same kind of reputation.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
US gas prices may climb back up in mid-February
Wholesale Fuel Prices Could Cause Pump Pain
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/30/us-gas-prices-may-climb-back-up-in-mid-february/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000588
Well, I did get the Valntine's gift early !! NEW sexy SHOOS in black !!!
( 09 VW Jetta tires @ 89,000 miles)
Best fill the car up today.
I was reading in another article
(WSJ has that under United Steelworkers Union Tells Members to Strike at Major U.S. Refineries U.S. Refiners, Union Failed to Reach a Deal by Deadline Early Sunday )
that the American people also were not fooled. Bottom line: they are/were NOT spending their fuel savings in the consumer sectors. So, my take is that to base a gasser decision solely on the fact that gas right now has a greater discount to diesel, might at the very least,...TIGHTEN.
Adblue is yet another fuel to freeze every winter and strand drivers.
Gasoline doesn't freeze. Works great in all these blizzards we're having.
Catch you folks later, I'm going outside to protest global climate change by occupying my snow shovel.
Gasoline doesn't freeze. Works great in all these blizzards we're having.
Catch you folks later, I'm going outside to protest global climate change by occupying my snow shovel.
First off I spent 25 years working in the Arctic which gets colder than any other place in the 48 contiguous states. Diesel was always the engine of choice. They are just more efficient in cold temperatures. We also ran number one diesel year round as that is what BP/SOHIO produced locally. AdBlue came about after I retired so I had to see if your statement was true. It will freeze but not leave you stranded. It also makes up for its minimal cost with improved fuel mileage. What is your basis for saying diesels are less reliable due to SCR and AdBlue? I follow diesels pretty close and found the opposite to be true. I understand the VW has a heater on their AdBlue tanks. Thankfully I don't have to put up with freezing weather anymore.
What if AdBlue freezes?
It won’t freeze completely until it reaches -11°C. It starts freezing at -10°C.
Freezing does not affect its performance once thawed. Also, AdBlue® tanks tend to be next to exhausts, which keep the temperature of the contents above freezing when the engine is running. Where the AdBlue® tank is situated elsewhere, it is heated using engine coolant which is circulated through the tank.
http://www.gentechsensors.com/content/news/news-story/adblue-def-fact-and-fiction
YES I am very happy with my PRE (and POST ) 2011 TDI mileages ! TDI's SEEMED to be less reliable in the "old days" IF what I was reading and seeing other folks anecdotal experiences were any indicaters. It could be considered (to me) really a STRETCH to have started with the 2003 Jetta TDI !!
There are "constant" improvement" initiatives. Reliability and durability of TDI's seems to be getting better. But since you SEEM to be saying you are out of TDI's, I am also ok with your stories of the good old days. In short, I can post in another 332,000 miles for the post 2011 experiences to match your 400,000 miles PRE 2011 experiences.
You have been utterly tone deaf as to the cost per mile driven fuel, going FORWARD (even as you begrudgingly acknowledge it in your past). The posted formulas, prices and math speak for themselves. Anyone can run them for themselves or NOT.
But to reiterate, I have absolutely no issues with anyone choosing to paying more, getting less mpg, etc. in short, ones' choice. So, all the best in your gassers. I wish I had the experiences I have had in diesels, in my GASSERS.
However, I think there is an understanding that BETTER mpg and LOWER cost per mile driven fuel, DIESEL are not major to even minor drivers/motivators in the SWITCH to diesel dynamics, IF 95% RUG/PUG PVF is any indication. with less than 2.5% of the DIESEL PVF being CARS. Or in your case, the switch BACK to gassers.
On the other hand, the requirement of more expensive PUG give a lot of folks "gas". ??? ( pun conveys meaning here) PUG PVF here is estimated @ 8 to 10% of PVF.
So I think it is DEFACTO more than obvious that less than 2.5% diesel CARS do way less cumulative mileages than the 95% + majority of RUG/PUG US PVF.
Looked further down in that article and it says you have 60% of torque if adblue is out (or frozen I presume). I would have 60% torque a lot of the time. When it is really cold my gas accord can run 20 minutes before it even registers on the temp gauge.
Lets look at an example of one of the best the PDK in a Porsche 911S. Consumer Reports tested one recently. They are not known for wringing out every drop of performance from a car. They do not spin the tires on launch and start with the engine at idle for their 0-60 runs. They are generally about .5 seconds slower to 60 for most vehicles.
Despite this they got their 911S to 60 in 4.1 seconds. That is .2 seconds faster than the factory claims and equal to what the factory claims for the automatic - not by race car drivers but by engineers from a consumer publication.
There is also no incentive to say the stick is just as fast when the PDK costs $4,000 more, and dealers prefer them because they know everybody can drive one (almost everybody - I can't
Lets also consider that 0-60 requires 1 shift. A good driver can shift about as fast as you can snap your fingers. So if the PDK takes no time to shift then it is only a finger snap ahead of the MT. But wait, the PDK weighs 45 lbs more than the MT or about 1.5% more. So to have the same power to weight ratio the PDK would need 6 more hp. A snap vs 6 hp - both are minor, hard to say which is better, but I would take the MT anyday and have $4,000 to play with as well as a car that is more fun to drive.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I hope to get a tour of it when it ports in Seward for the first time in about a month, but, no, I don't get to go out on it. I'm not that special! LOL
The additional theoretical problem is that no one REALLY knows how a US market boxer diesel (frankensteined for our markets) will perform HERE !
And, true about the considerations for a US market version. Most likely, it is not a problem that will see an answer, either. *If* they do decide to take the plunge, they'll be a Johnny-Come-Lately by that point.
They are quite popular in Australia with MT only available. Subaru needs a good 6-8 speed automatic for the added torque of the diesel. The rubber band CVT is just not strong enough.
So if you can MAKE diesel to B 100 @ ones location, with access to natural gas and chemistry ($1,00 pr gal), rather than DIGGING it out from WEIRD places (middle of nowhere) and transporting it LONG distances to refineries to refine it, transport the finish products LONG distances, AGAIN.... ($1.44 per gal)
..."the nation is entering the “era of personal power.”"...
Energy-Pinching Americans Pose Threat to Power Grid
Sluggish Sales Could Deprive Utilities of Revenues to Maintain Vast Network of Generating Plants and High-Voltage Lines
http://www.wsj.com/articles/energy-pinching-americans-pose-threat-to-power-grid-1422910187?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories
@ruking1, the grid needs to go away, or at least just get localized. It's too easy of a target now as it is, and too expensive to maintain. Kind of like we're stuck with the vestiges of land lines when the "backward" nations leapfrog us and go copperless.
In other news:
2015 Chevrolet Colorado: I'll Wait for the Diesel
If I were to get another PU truck to replace the Nissan Frontier, I would consider the GM midsize with diesel. No other reason to change. My Frontier gets 17 MPG just as the EPA rated it. It is a far better truck than the Ford Ranger V6 auto it replaced. The only reason to buy a new one is for the better mileage and take a lot of short trips to Costco off the Touareg.
I would not abuse a diesel with that sort of use, even here where it never freezes. I never take the Touareg out of the garage, for less than a 25 mile roundtrip. For local shopping in our village, 2-3 miles each way, I drive the gas PU truck. It is a beater and gets crappy mileage anyway. You need a Nissan Leaf or some other EV type vehicle. I would never recommend a diesel for short little trips. Get a beater..... :@
From a (gasser/diesel).02 cent perspectives, if this situation is not tailor made for an EV, what is? (albeit, much more expensive than it has to be) Or,... when is Uber coming to your town?
"The latest U.S. Energy Department survey price is $2.831 per gallon, $1.12 less than the same time a year ago and at its lowest level in nearly five years."
Average Diesel Cost Falls to Near 5-Year Low (truckinginfo.com/)
"DESPITE the force of environmentalists lined up against diesel technology, Volkswagen has chosen to unveil a new mass-market sports diesel estate."
VW’s sportwagen snub to anti-diesel lobby (businesscarmanager.co.uk)
Patti Domm | @pattidomm
Wednesday, 7 Aug 2013 | 10:59 AM ET
CNBC.com
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100943620
Old news, but accurate ?
IF I got a hold of that, you all's eyes will glaze over from my zzzzzzzzzz ....mundane BETTER than 64 PLUS+mpg dronings on !!!
( in the case that it is NOT expressed in US gal (128 oz, imp = 154 oz)
Does ANY gasser aficionado have ANY remaining doubts that we get diesel DREDGES, so that they can try to say (wear the illusions they ) gassers are anywhere NEAR competitive?
AND ...30,000 miles OCI's?
What OCI regiment do you follow with your 07 Accord ? 30,000 miles? OK ! Let's talk turkey.
Less? What a worry wart? Don't want to answer? I will go back to snooze zzzzzzzz.
Taking heads on cable tv indicate SMALL cars have a year to year sales of 19% of yearly sales. I have mentioned in the past that 25% of the PVF SEEM to be small cars. Seems over a longer term, the trend is on a slow growth to BIGGER cars.
I don't think it is a secret that diesels operate optimally when warmed up. If you keep it in a warm garage or plugged in short trips are probably not an issue. I don't know that padding the TDI mileage has any kind of relevance. I have put over 20k miles on the Touareg in just over a years ownership. That is the most I have ever driven any vehicle I have ever owned. The PU got about 2500 miles last year and the Lexus about 1000 when loaned to family while here on vacation. We used to drive the PU on the Costco runs, 30 miles RT. At today's fuel cost the PU costs about $4 for gas to Costco. The Touareg about $2.80. And the T-reg is far more comfortable on the drive. If I could convince my wife to part with the Lexus for a Golf or Beetle TDI we could cut the cost a lot more. Then we are paying only 18 cents a gallon more for ULSD than RUG. If you are happy driving a gasser, I would NOT try to convince you otherwise. I just have NOT liked the Gas vehicles as much as the diesels I have owned over the last decade.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
SORT of related, I saw a piece on Peterbilt/Cummins (apologies in advance, if I am incorrect) touting the relatedness of (synergy?) factors, for a combined new mpg of 10.7 mpg. I have read 4 to 6 mpg is more normal for big rigs/tractor trailers (looked to be long haul). That would be up to 78% better mpg.
Gallonage for 100,000 miles would DROP from 25,000-16,667 TO 9,346 gals !!!! The drop would be a range of app MINUS- 63% to -44%
I know several people that have looked at those $numbers and bought HD gas PU trucks. Very valid argument. Also the argument of paying close to $40k for a midsized PU truck. I am following the only light duty PU available so far in the USA. The RAM 1500 Eco Diesel. About 178 owners are posting on Fuelly. It looks like an average of 23-24 MPG is very realistic. RAM 1500 gassers are still in the 16-17 MPG range. Some things just never change. A 28-30% increase in mileage would be enough to overcome any price variations from RUG to ULSD. If gassers are discounted far below diesels that would be harder to overcome. The diesel premium is no big deal as it carries over to resale. If they only offer incentives on the gassers they are not so easy to cover.
It's definitely going to be at the lower end of the spectrum as the truck spends the majority of its time (over 90%) driving around the traffic choked streets of New York City (The Bronx & Manhattan).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD