The Future Of The Manual Transmission

stever · September 2015

"Speaking at a technical presentation for the face-lifted version of the 991 series 911, Thomas Brandl, the engineer responsible for the new engine range, admitted it would be difficult to build a business case for a new manual transmission.

"As long as the gearbox exists, we will use it," Brandl told Edmunds, "but it would be very difficult to justify the investment needed to develop a new gearbox when little more than 10 percent of buyers choose it."

Porsche 911 To Lose Manual Gearbox After Next-Generation Model

elias · September 2015

No problem, just tell the EPA and the Porsche customer that it's a real manual-transmission, and have a dummy gearbox & clutch pedal and sneaky software with a "switch {}".

(In cartoons and software, anything is possible.)

stever · November 2015

"The proportion of cars and light trucks in the U.S. sold with manual transmissions has fallen to around 7% in 2014 from 35% in 1980, according to WardsAuto, which keeps data on car manufacturing and sales.

The decline is expected to accelerate as high-performance sports cars, once holdouts, increasingly shift to hybrid automatics.

With advances in automatic-transmission technology, stick-shift adherents confess that their oft-used arguments about fuel economy and performance are starting to slip like a worn clutch. A proliferation of gears means automatics are now better able to keep engines in their “sweet spots” where they run most efficiently, said Ed Hellwig, executive editor at Edmunds.Com."

Do You Drive Stick? Fans of Manual Transmission Can’t Let Go (WSJ - may be a registration link)

andys120 · November 2015

The decline is expected to accelerate as high-performance sports cars, once holdouts, increasingly shift to hybrid automatics.

High-performance sports cars, w some exceptions, have not been holdouts. Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini and others were quick to drop three pedal setups and use DSG set-ups. Most of the traditional MTs available today are in the lower-priced end of the market.

boaz47 · November 2015

It has been quite a while since I posted here and I see manuals are still hanging on even if they might be on life support.

It it seems an earlier post here is close to spot on, people buy what people buy. But with the exception of those that have been exposed to manuals and use then new adopters are fewer and so we see a slight decrease as the years go by.

The he truth is the trend may not be one that can be reversed because how we view driving, as a society, has changed. Even here at Edmunds they posted some of the changes. http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html

Manuals may be like record players in that on the surface they fade away only to come back as a new generation of true believers lobby for the return of records and that brought back record players. It may not be an exact match but it is part of how I see it.

I drove manuals for for most of my driving life. When I got ready to retire I got a big SUV and a travel trailer to tour the US. You all can guess what transmission came standard with a towing package. By the time I put 120,000 miles on the automatic transmission I decided to get rid of the truck and trailer and buy a small little car. I ended up with a Fit because I had become a cyclists and my bike "Fit" in the back. I wanted the sporty model and expected it would be a manual. The only upgrade from the base models they had at three different dealerships were ones with Automatics and paddle shifters.

When end I looked at Hybrids I didn't see one manual. It may be more that manufacturers simply stop making them not that people stop wanting them. But there are fewer offerings now than when I first posted in one of these threads.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

What then am I to do with my left foot? Does it just SIT there?

Oh, what's this I'm reading? The new Honda Civic with the fun package (turbo engine) doesn't come with a manual transmission? Only for the 2.0L N/A engine? Well there you go, another slap in the face of the few, the chosen.

stickguy · November 2015

well, assuming they did offer it, how many do you think they would sell on the top of the line model? A couple percent?

But, at least they are coming out with the sport models (Si, and what, the R?) that will have the appropriate tranny!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

Well you're right but for the person who wants one---well, it's like when they publish casualty figures and say "well it's only 1%". Yeah, but if it's YOU that's the casualty, then it's 100% in your world---lol!

I'm not gonna be one of those old guys who shakes his fist at the modern world but I don't have to go quietly.

stickguy · November 2015

don't blame you. but companies are in the business of staying in business. And catering to the fringes isn't usually the best way to make money.

maybe they still remember the V6 Accord sedan 6 speed era!

but, don't blame them. Blame the EPA. honda already makes sticks for other markets. They just don't want the hassle and cost of certifying it most likely. If they could just whip up a batch and send them over, they just might!

slorenzen · November 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
What then am I to do with my left foot? Does it just SIT there?

Oh, what's this I'm reading? The new Honda Civic with the fun package (turbo engine) doesn't come with a manual transmission? Only for the 2.0L N/A engine? Well there you go, another slap in the face of the few, the chosen.

Does this mean my 2006 Civic EX w/ 5 speed is becoming more desirable?

(um, prolly not...)

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

To someone, definitely.

carboy21 · November 2015

Why does USA not allow imports from Europe. They all drive stick over there. Problem solved.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

They have to meet Federal safety and emissions standards. Manual transmissions are something of a cultural thing over there. I asked my Sicilian cab driver about this. He said: "Control! Control!" He regards himself as the pilota, after all.

I just can't get my head around a DSG---so I'm supposed to nudge the gearshift and play with those paddles? Why bother? Why not just drive a plain old slushbox and have an audio file making zoom zoom noises for you?

carboy21 · November 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
They have to meet Federal safety and emissions standards. Manual transmissions are something of a cultural thing over there. I asked my Sicilian cab driver about this. He said: "Control! Control!" He regards himself as the pilota, after all.

I just can't get my head around a DSG---so I'm supposed to nudge the gearshift and play with those paddles? Why bother? Why not just drive a plain old slushbox and have an audio file making zoom zoom noises for you?

When I worked in UK for 2 years my friends told me Americans are wimps to drive automatics. Stick gives you control over the cars

stever · November 2015

Formula One cars use paddles in their semi-automatic transmissions. They can hit 5 gs in the corners.

Funny that a wimp Brit is currently leading the standings. Hamilton must really have a knack for hanging onto the steering wheel with both hands while shifting.

kyfdx · November 2015

stever said:
Formula One cars use paddles in their semi-automatic transmissions. They can hit 5 gs in the corners.

Funny that a wimp Brit is currently leading the standings. Hamilton must really have a knack for hanging onto the steering wheel with both hands while shifting.

We don't race our cars, generally.

Everytime I get in a car with paddle shifters, I lose interest in about 5 minutes. Even in a Nissan GT-R.

Give me a stick-shift, please

stever · November 2015

I "shift" quite a bit with my cruise control (and with the OD button when I had one). I might like the paddles.

Chatted with a woman with a white Miata at a yard sale last weekend. Asked her if it was for sale and she hesitated a minute and said, maybe.

Then I remembered the crucial question - automatic?

Yep.

Sorry, I said.

carboy21 · November 2015

I can drive stick shift and I don't mind buying one but no one in my family will ever touch that car. So if I am disabled, it will have to be garaged

Michaell · November 2015

stever said:
I "shift" quite a bit with my cruise control (and with the OD button when I had one). I might like the paddles.

Chatted with a woman with a white Miata at a yard sale last weekend. Asked her if it was for sale and she hesitated a minute and said, maybe.

Then I remembered the crucial question - automatic?

Yep.

Sorry, I said.

Steve, I don't use the paddles (Subaru or MINI) or the +/- on the gearshift (Hyundai) all that often, unless I want to hold a higher gear for engine braking during poor weather on the hills around here.

On the MINI, I'll use them to 'emulate' a stick shift - rev the bejeezus out of it, then flip to the next gear. Can be fun when the roads are empty.

elias · November 2015

good SMG or other automatic transmission is crucial on racetrack where you need two hands to control the wheel in the turns and/or sideways, and never any reason to use engine-braking. On racetrack one is *always* on the gas or on the brake, that is what the Laguna Seca guys taught us rookies. They blackflagged us if we engine-braked whatsoever .

a million miles of street driving indicate that stickshift is crucial for enjoyment of street driving. my only reasons to drive an automatic on street would be physical limitation or if i only drove in manhattan...
(acute tendonitis did put me in automatic transmission cars for a couple years.)

andres3 · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
They have to meet Federal safety and emissions standards. Manual transmissions are something of a cultural thing over there. I asked my Sicilian cab driver about this. He said: "Control! Control!" He regards himself as the pilota, after all.

I just can't get my head around a DSG---so I'm supposed to nudge the gearshift and play with those paddles? Why bother? Why not just drive a plain old slushbox and have an audio file making zoom zoom noises for you?

A well-programmed DSG will net you better fuel economy and better acceleration, just put it in S-mode in an Audi and life is bliss.

Some people are control freaks, and have to use the paddles.

ruking1 · December 2015

Anymore it's .... What car I'm in, after that & MOOD I'm in!

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

I really wouldn't care if it gave me 2X the mileage and better acceleration with the stop watch. That's really not the point for me. But Ruking has a point. On some cars, a manual transmission is utterly pointless.

stever · February 2016

Every Manual Transmission Available Today 2016 Edition (oppositelock.kinja.com)

kyfdx · February 2016

stever said:
Every Manual Transmission Available Today 2016 Edition (oppositelock.kinja.com)

This makes me sad.

stickguy · February 2016

Heck, it was more than I expected.

Still, buy yours now before they are gone for good.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

At least in the non-econobox realm, Audi, BMW and Porsche and VW haven't completely gone over to the dark side

stickguy · February 2016

Good luck finding one without a special order.

kyfdx · February 2016

stickguy said:
Good luck finding one without a special order.

VW stick-shifts are prevalent. Especially GTIs.

stickguy · February 2016

Was thinking more of the BMW. VW and Mazda seem to actually exist on the ground.

stever · April 2016

Bit of a love story in the NY Times today:

"I downshifted, and the car hugged the cloverleaf coming off the highway. The motor hummed; the seat embraced me. Both hands, both feet, my entire body: all engaged. No fiddling with cellphone or radio. Just me and the car and the road."

Michaell · April 2016

stever said:
Bit of a love story in the NY Times today:

"I downshifted, and the car hugged the cloverleaf coming off the highway. The motor hummed; the seat embraced me. Both hands, both feet, my entire body: all engaged. No fiddling with cellphone or radio. Just me and the car and the road."

I read that article; I'm not ashamed to admit that it brought a tear to my eye.

stever · April 2016

Life is short, drive what you like.

Michaell · April 2016

stever said:
Life is short, drive what you like.

Words to live by.

iluvmysephia1 · April 2016

Life is short, drive what you like.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm back ta hankering for the 2016 Scion iA in the 6-speed stick variety. Mountain States Scion in Denver (which gets a 4 out of 5 star rating, evidently) is now taking a whopping $2,100 off the list price. So there's a 6-speed in the Stealth color (black) going for only $14,235 right now.

Mrs. iluvmysephia1? We're going to Wichita in a couple weeks...umm.

I don't know.

stickguy · April 2016

I saw an Ia on the road yesterday, in the dark gray. Looked nice. Plus the dark color helped tone down the maw!

stickguy · April 2016

For that price, good value. Though certainly not as practical as the soul.

iluvmysephia1 · April 2016

I saw an Ia on the road yesterday, in the dark gray. Looked nice. Plus the dark color helped tone down the maw!

Exactly - at least it's not a 1962 Dodge Dart 440, right? I was just joshin' about the car that did Virgil Exner, Chrysler executive, in. He was let go over those 1962 designs, but, a lot of people like 'em. A lot!

Yeah, someone had their Stealth (black) 2016 Scion iA's windows tinted 20%/20% and that car looked like a knockout. At $14,235 it's getting very approachable. Whether I'd get a wild hair that I'd have ta deal with, don't really know. I was paying attention yesterday while driving in Dodge City to the Soul's driving dynamics and getting an internal wide smile inside my...soul.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2016

Ten Cars That Desperately Need a Manual Transmission

kyfdx · April 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
Ten Cars That Desperately Need a Manual Transmission

I agree with the exotics, the Porsche and the Volvo. Not sure about the trucks.. not much point, there.

xwesx · April 2016

Interestingly, Dodge was the last manual holdout in the full-size truck market (in US, at least). While i definitely love me a manual, everyone to whom I've ever spoken about the topic has said that, for working, the automatic is just so much more livable.

andres3 · April 2016

If I was forced to buy another Dodge at gunpoint I'd want a manual solely based on the knowledge that their typical auto transmission makes a Honda V6 transmission look bullet proof in comparison on a durability standpoint.

elias · May 2016

A3, which was the first dodge you purchased at gunpoint!? I hadn't heard that mopar slushboxes were bad. As far as I knew, they've been fine since i drove the family's 1971 plymouth satellite faster than the speed of light. (wagon shape helped with the aerodynamics. bright metallic green.)

stickguy · May 2016

The old torque flights were bulletproof. The new 9 speeds, not sure how reliable, but have functional problems (work poorly)

cdnpinhead · May 2016

I hadn't heard that mopar slushboxes were bad.

Seriously? Wow.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2016

How 'bout the Hellcat transmission?--it's a beefed up version and it is handling all that enormous HP.

benjaminh · May 2016

iluvmysephia1 said:
I saw an Ia on the road yesterday, in the dark gray. Looked nice. Plus the dark color helped tone down the maw!

Exactly - at least it's not a 1962 Dodge Dart 440, right? I was just joshin' about the car that did Virgil Exner, Chrysler executive, in. He was let go over those 1962 designs, but, a lot of people like 'em. A lot!

Yeah, someone had their Stealth (black) 2016 Scion iA's windows tinted 20%/20% and that car looked like a knockout. At $14,235 it's getting very approachable. Whether I'd get a wild hair that I'd have ta deal with, don't really know. I was paying attention yesterday while driving in Dodge City to the Soul's driving dynamics and getting an internal wide smile inside my...soul.

When I met her in 1990, my future wife was driving a 1961 Dodge Lancer with a slant six that she'd inherited from her grandmother. It had a push-button automatic. We drove it until the late 1990s without any problems. It's still in storage at her brother's house, rusting away....Looks like this:

http://oldcarbrochures.org/var/albums/NA/Dodge/1961_Dodge/1961_Dodge_Lancer_Prestige_Brochure/1961 Dodge Lancer Prestige-02-03.jpg?m=1305503902

andres3 · May 2016

elias said:
A3, which was the first dodge you purchased at gunpoint!? I hadn't heard that mopar slushboxes were bad. As far as I knew, they've been fine since i drove the family's 1971 plymouth satellite faster than the speed of light. (wagon shape helped with the aerodynamics. bright metallic green.)

You haven't been reading your Consumer Reports for the last 30 years! How many black dots on "transmissions" would you like me to cite? I bet there's more black than red. The old Neon had the old 3-speed which was notorious for self destructing by 60,000 miles. To be honest I don't know how long it would have lasted, maybe a lot of people would put up with slipping and/or harsh 1st and 2nd gear shifts. I didn't want to risk getting stranded again; so I repaired quickly once signs of slipping became apparent and regular.

cdnpinhead · May 2016

Back in the late '90s I had the opportunity to have three different MoPar transmissions rebuilt within about 18 months: my '94 Eagle Vision, my wife's '94 Dodge Caravan and my mother-in-law's '92 Dodge Intrepid. There was a topic here on Edmunds having to do with Chrysler transmissions, back when lots of people actually visited the forums.

fintail · May 2016

IIRC the transmission in my dad's fancy T&C failed about 6 months after he bought it. I am pretty sure it was a known issue in those rigs.

The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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