Midsize Sedans 2.0

Sandman6472 · May 2016

Just want to give out a warning to folks looking at the Ford Fusion. There is a definite problem with many of the new ones where the vehicle will go into limp mode with no warning and this is a real dangerous safety hazard. It has happened to me and a couple other co-workers at work. I work for Hertz HLE, a direct competitor of Enterprise. We have a mess of the new Fusions and this is a known issue though Ford will not admit it. In the last two weeks, we have had five new Fusions exhibit this dangerous condition and believe me, it's scary. Happened to me twice now while driving on the Florida turnpike. Funny thing was we were taking them all to our location at the Pines Ford location in Hollywood Florida. The dealer fixed them under warranty but has still yet to admit to the problem or what is causing it.
The vehicle drives fine but within 5 or so minutes, both of the ones I drove went into limp mode. one has to turn the vehicle off and sit for a few minutes. Starts up again and acts fine but within minutes, the same thing happens with it going into limp mode and then having to shut the thing down. Very unnerving and a real safety hazard. One of my co-workers refuses to drive any Fusion and I am a bit unhappy if I do have to drive one. It has also happened to another co-worker in the Lincoln MKX so something isn't right here. Just hope Ford fixes this issue before someone gets seriously hurt or even killed.
Between the awful auto tranny in the Ford Focus and the engine problem with the Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKX, no way would I ever think to purchase a Ford product. Since I have felt this issue first hand twice now, just want others to beware of this serious issue!

The Sandman

roadburner · May 2016

benjaminh said:
Honda and Toyota dominate Consumer Reports' list of "Best Cars to get to 200,000." My guess is that Kia, Hyundai, Mazda and Ford cars also have a chance of making it there with lots of maintenance and good luck....

http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/10-best-cars-to-get-to-200000-miles-and-beyond/

"Almost any car can make it to 200,000 miles and beyond if you’re willing to throw enough money at it. But that doesn’t mean that keeping your trusty steed is a good idea. A less expensive and more hassle-free way to go is to simply buy a safe, reliable model in the first place, and properly maintain it for the long haul...."

1. Honda Accord
2. Toyota Camry
3. Honda Civic
4. Honda Odyssey
5. Toyota Prius
6. Toyota Sienna
7. Honda CR-V
8. Toyota Corolla
9. Toyota 4-Runner
10. Ford F-150

My wife's X3 has just 14k more miles to go.

benjaminh · May 2016

sandman_6472 said:
All I can say is I absolutely love my 2015 Golf! Wanted a small hatchback and there aren't many in this category. Passed on the Ford Focus because of the awful auto tranny, a bit dangerous honestly. With the 2015 refresh, things are a bit better but that awful shudder is still there. So the Focus was taken off the short list.
Tried the Jetta but it was a bit too large for the garage but the Golf fit perfectly. Consider the Golf as the poor mans Audi A3 and they are very similar. Luckily I get to drive a 2015 A3 as the wife picked up one about a week before I bought the Golf. We are both happy with our choices!

The Sandman

The amazing thing about the Golf is that, as you say, it's a small hatchback—but it actually has slightly more combined cargo and passenger room than most "midsize cars."

How is the handling on the Golf? How is the transmission?

m6user · May 2016

You have the mazda3, forte5 and Elantra GT also. But I would put the Mazda3s as the most comparable to Golf. If I was looking for a small hatchback right now I would take the Golf.

akirby · May 2016

Is that for 2017 Fusions?

akirby · May 2016

Is that for 2017 Fusions?

explorerx4 · May 2016

@akirby,
You know where to ask.
I wonder if there is some sort of software unlock the needs to be done.
Each of the cars that went back to the dealer were ok after that, I assume.

sda · May 2016

akirby said:
Is that for 2017 Fusions?

Which engine, the 2.5 or Ecoboost?

[Deleted User] · May 2016

benjaminh said:
midsize/full-size car sales in April....

Camry 34,039

Accord 31,526

Altima 28,484

Malibu 21,763

Fusion 20,730

Sonata 15,211

Optima 11,224

200 7,591

Passat 5,629

Legacy 5,591

Mazda6 3,929

Anyone else think the the Chrysler 200c is a good looking car? Kind of like an Audi A4 copy?

[Deleted User] · May 2016

benjaminh said:
midsize/full-size car sales in April....

Camry 34,039

Accord 31,526

Altima 28,484

Malibu 21,763

Fusion 20,730

Sonata 15,211

Optima 11,224

200 7,591

Passat 5,629

Legacy 5,591

Mazda6 3,929

Anyone else think the the Chrysler 200c is a good looking car? Kind of like an Audi A4 copy?

[Deleted User] · May 2016

Originally posted by Sandman on 5/4:

The auto tranny in the the Ford Focus absolutely sucks! Can't say it any other way. The 2015 models did address the problem but without much luck. Working for Hertz, I drive so many makes and models and to be honest, the biggest surprises have been the Optima and Sonata to be honest. The Fusions drive nicely but the Korean cousins are really so much better, really is a no brainer.
The new Civic is a hoot to drive also. Our store picked up about 25 new ones last month and our group of drivers got to pick them up from the dealer. If one can get past the looks of the exterior, an excellent choice for a small econobox. The new Elantra is really nice and expect the new Forte to be just as nice. Hyundai/Kia seems to have really been listening to what the public wants and reminds me of Honda/Toyota from the mid '80's through the 1990's, they just seem to be making vehicles people want to buy!!

The Sandman

Wow, I could not have said it better myself! Also the fact that you drive many, many makes and models puts you in a position as working in the auto industry, and qualified to know what sounds and drives like crap, and what does not. Also, you get a feel for what is going to hold up over time and what probably will not.

My 2012 Optima EX still drives like new, helped me steer around a certain death accident that developed right in front of me. (Missed by 1" with the help of stability control and ABS). Also after 4.3 years there is a little chipped clearcoat on the hood where it meets the front clip, and the drivers side headlight has fog/small amount of water in it and some damage I caused adding/ removing some smoked headlight covers. I bought a whole new headlight assembly for $99.00 including shipping, where to my surprise I saw the original invoice for $650!! Other than that the high pressure fuel injection hose, and high pressure A/C hose both got a hole in them and were replaced under warranty. Neither caused me to have to call a tow truck, and I had received recalls on both. The A/C line had dye injected in the freon so they found the leak exactly where the TSB said it would be, I took the car in a week after the 2nd recall notice was received and another type of dye was injected in the high pressure hose but it died a week later. What I could not believe was that it still ran on the 2nd and previously unknown low pressure hose, so I was able to safely and slowly drive to the dealer and have the high pressure hose replaced. This happened at 41k and prior to these two problems (both at roughly the same time) absolutely nothing broke on the car. I still love it.

BTW: The new Civic looks great, especially at night when all four Tie-Fighter light bars are on. I like the back of the restyled Accord but the front gets a zero. Class over Plastichrome Honda. Do you see a bunch of Plastichrome on Audi's and BMW's? Even if it is only a mid cycle re-style?

Lastly: You are right about Ford. They have the worst quality record of all Trucks, large sedans, and the Focus/Escape do not have a good reliability record. Period. (Consumer reports)

stickguy · May 2016

I'm surprised the Sonata is not selling at least as much as the Nissan. But still a healthy number, plus it gets up there when you include the cousin Optima.

[Deleted User] · May 2016

stickguy said:
I'm surprised the Sonata is not selling at least as much as the Nissan. But still a healthy number, plus it gets up there when you include the cousin Optima.

I'm not surprised about Altima sales. I bet fleet purchases have something to do with it, but it's a lot more than that. There are literally Altima's everywhere here in the DMV area. Probably second only to LA. Nissan has a slightly better name than Kia (lets face it) and there are long warranty packages available, just not 100k free "powertrain".

The style of this generation of Sonata really grew on me. I hated it at first compared to the original, but now I think it looks like an ES 350 fighter. Really. With the Turbo Motor and the luxury package WOW ..... look; I really like it.

[Deleted User] · May 2016

stickguy said:
I'm surprised the Sonata is not selling at least as much as the Nissan. But still a healthy number, plus it gets up there when you include the cousin Optima.

Lot of people still leary of Kia name, despite all the assurances and exceedingly long warranties, customer and magazine reviews. Mainly the handling is still not taken seriously as "well sorted" by almost 100% of major mag reviews.

stickguy · May 2016

I can see Kia still. but I think Hyundai at this point has fully become mainstream.

[Deleted User] · May 2016

cski said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised the Sonata is not selling at least as much as the Nissan. But still a healthy number, plus it gets up there when you include the cousin Optima.
Lot of people still leary of Kia name, despite all the assurances and exceedingly long warranties, customer and magazine reviews. Mainly the handling is still not taken seriously as "well sorted" by almost 100% of major mag reviews.

cski said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised the Sonata is not selling at least as much as the Nissan. But still a healthy number, plus it gets up there when you include the cousin Optima.
Lot of people still leary of Kia name, despite all the assurances and exceedingly long warranties, customer and magazine reviews praising the assembly quality, interior and exterior design. Considering the fact that Toyota has had many more years to work on the Camry, I am proud of the Optima'a accomplishments but mainly the handling is still not taken seriously as "well sorted" by almost 100% of major mag reviews. I don't know about the Camry owners, but mine feels "well sorted" while it walks away from Camry SE (4 cyl) in almost any real life situation(s) I have come across.Nuff said.

berri · May 2016

Just want to give out a warning to folks looking at the Ford Fusion. There is a definite problem with many of the new ones where the vehicle will go into limp mode with no warning

This would seem to fall in line with complaints on the web about Ford quality declining. I think Mark Fields and the Ford family need to cut back on the Jacques Nasser II digression into things like self driving car technology and bring focus back onto current product. Might need to put Mullaly on the board of directors or something to get Ford back into focus and on track with current product, as well as avoiding the predictable down the road sell-offs of these digressions at losses. Maybe Ford stockholders need to rethink these Ford family super shares at the next board meeting if Bill Ford can't get a better grip on his CEO and company? Didn't Nasser have some initial profit gains before his grand plan of acquisitions almost brought the company down? The Ford family sure seemed to go along with his grandiose plans and schemes far too long.

akirby · May 2016

Ford has had a series of bad parts including fuel tanks, throttle bodies, etc. Hard to tell if they're squeezing suppliers too much or if they lost too many experienced engineers when they downsized in 2007 or it's a lack of quality control. Some of it is due to all the platform changes to consolidate multiple global platforms. With record profits and platform work behind them they need to do better going forward.

That said I just bought a new Lincoln MKX and its flawless.

suydam · May 2016

Get back to us in 5 years and tell us how it's doing.

akirby · May 2016

I had a 2006 Fusion for 7 years - only had to clean out the hvac blower and replace one door pull. Had a 2008 Edge for 6 years - only one repair - replaced cooling fans for $120. Not worried in the least.

backy · May 2016

cski said:

Anyone else think the the Chrysler 200c is a good looking car? Kind of like an Audi A4 copy?

I think it's good looking, but not like the A4 to my eyes. But I also think looks are about all the 200 has going for it. I've driven it and it's "ok" to drive, but no better than any other mid-sized car I've driven. Also the interior feels claustrophobic to me, I hate that you have to use the touch screen for just about everything, and the 9 AT has had its share of issues. If I were going based on looks, I like the Mazda6 (in red!) and Malibu better, and the Fusion is pretty similar in looks. In my area, there's huge discounts on the 200, e.g. $18k for a $26k car. But I wouldn't buy one even at that price. There's also good deals available on cars like the Sonata, Altima, Fusion, Passat, and Camry (boring but reliable and will hold its value, unlike the 200).

jpp75 · May 2016

backy said:

cski said:

Anyone else think the the Chrysler 200c is a good looking car? Kind of like an Audi A4 copy?
I think it's good looking, but not like the A4 to my eyes. But I also think looks are about all the 200 has going for it. I've driven it and it's "ok" to drive, but no better than any other mid-sized car I've driven. Also the interior feels claustrophobic to me, I hate that you have to use the touch screen for just about everything, and the 9 AT has had its share of issues. If I were going based on looks, I like the Mazda6 (in red!) and Malibu better, and the Fusion is pretty similar in looks. In my area, there's huge discounts on the 200, e.g. $18k for a $26k car. But I wouldn't buy one even at that price. There's also good deals available on cars like the Sonata, Altima, Fusion, Passat, and Camry (boring but reliable and will hold its value, unlike the 200).

I agree with backy, I don't see the resemblance between the 200c and the A4. The new generation Malibu resembles the 200c much more.

I don't mind the Chrysler but having driven a few as rentals they were mediocre at best, which is why they're soon to be discontinued.

suydam · May 2016

Horrible to get stuck with as rental cars.

wayne21 · May 2016

I have always refused Chryslers as rental cars. I usually get a camry or an Altima, but last year they gave me an "upgrade" in a buick verano. I had never heard of a verano, but it was by far the worst rental I'd ever driven. I would have preferred a Chrysler to the verano. I honestly couldn't think of a nice thing to say about it other than it taught me never to take another one. It was truly a piece of crap. After returning home I checked on the verano and it was advertised as a small "luxury" car. I found that to be totally laughable. It was nothing but a cheap chevy cruze with a buick label on it.

suydam · May 2016

The problem with rental cars in general is that you always get the cheapest version. The Sonata I rented was so blah I have a hard time recognizing it as the vehicle a lot of people here heap praise on. So I do try to keep that in mind.

andres3 · May 2016

suydam said:
The problem with rental cars in general is that you always get the cheapest version. The Sonata I rented was so blah I have a hard time recognizing it as the vehicle a lot of people here heap praise on. So I do try to keep that in mind.

I've always felt that a manufacturer should have minimum standards for the base model so that when people rent them they get sold on the car rather than scared away.

Perhaps the bean counters have done the math and they think their way is better. Then again, they needed bailouts so maybe not.

suydam · May 2016

Well, I've sold my 2013 Honda Accord. It's been a great car but we are moving and only want to drive one across country. Although I like it a lot -- a perfect road trip car -- I would like to downsize. Both of us so enjoy our little Buick Encore and we want to keep to that size range. With kids grown and just us and the dog, it makes sense. I've got my eye on a Mazda 3 but we will make do with one car until we move (about a month from now).

Michaell · May 2016

suydam said:
Well, I've sold my 2013 Honda Accord. It's been a great car but we are moving and only want to drive one across country. Although I like it a lot -- a perfect road trip car -- I would like to downsize. Both of us so enjoy our little Buick Encore and we want to keep to that size range. With kids grown and just us and the dog, it makes sense. I've got my eye on a Mazda 3 but we will make do with one car until we move (about a month from now).

Congrats on the sale.

You should update your signature line!

suydam · May 2016

You are right. Kinda hard to realize it's gone though.

Michaell · May 2016

suydam said:
You are right. Kinda hard to realize it's gone though.

Not like you couldn't get another one once you've settled in.

Where you goin'?

brian125 · May 2016

From what I've been hearing the Honda Accord, should receive a complete redesign for the 2018 model year, I don’t anticipate Honda will veer far from what’s been a successful direction for this midsize sedan and coupe combo. If 2018 is in fact the redesign year this will be the 10th generation model dating back to 1979. The Accord coupes 1st year was in 1988.

I'd like to see better Tech features offered in the new 2018 Accord. Standard across the board in all models FWS, Bliss , Lane watch, Cross traffic / braking etc.

Subaru legacy has to step up its game also with better Tech and upgraded motor to stay competitive in a few years.

Ford has seemed to spring ahead in these area's but needs to offer the Tech/ safety features in the lower models. Thought I read some where that by 2020 all car models should be offering upgraded Tech and safety features in all models.

@suydam................ It's ashame you had to put your Accord down. Someone got a really good vehicle.. R.I.P

suydam · May 2016

Well it went to a good home. The guy was driving a '98 Contour. He needed a better ride!

brian125 · May 2016

Another Ford guy see's the light crosses over.

wayne21 · May 2016

From what I've been hearing the Honda Accord, should receive a complete redesign for the 2018 model year, I don’t anticipate Honda will veer far from what’s been a successful direction for this midsize sedan and coupe combo. If 2018 is in fact the redesign year this will be the 10th generation model dating back to 1979. The Accord coupes 1st year was in 1988.

I don't know about the coupe, but I do know that Honda started selling the accord in the US in 1976. In fact, I recall consumer reports "black dotting" the 1976-1978 accord because of cylinder head warping.

sda · May 2016

wayne21 said:
From what I've been hearing the Honda Accord, should receive a complete redesign for the 2018 model year, I don’t anticipate Honda will veer far from what’s been a successful direction for this midsize sedan and coupe combo. If 2018 is in fact the redesign year this will be the 10th generation model dating back to 1979. The Accord coupes 1st year was in 1988.

I don't know about the coupe, but I do know that Honda started selling the accord in the US in 1976. In fact, I recall consumer reports "black dotting" the 1976-1978 accord because of cylinder head warping.

1976 was the first year for the Accord. I still have a brochure for the 76. It listed for $3995, add about $450 for dealer installed a/c. I made notes in the brochure because I thought I would buy one, however, being in high school, I didn't have any money!

akirby · May 2016

We had a 1981 Accord sedan with a stick. That was a neat little car.

Michaell · May 2016

akirby said:
We had a 1981 Accord sedan with a stick. That was a neat little car.

I owned an '85 LX Hatchback - burgundy with burgundy interior and a 5-speed manual transmission. Loved that car - took it on a trip from CA to MI and back. Saw a tank of 44 MPG in NM. Downhill, of course.

akirby · May 2016

Only problem I remember was a caliper bolt fell out while we were visiting the folks in a small rural town in South Georgia for Thanksgiving. Trying to find a metric bolt in rural south GA on a Thanksgiving holiday in 1985 was not that easy. We found one that worked enough to get us home.

roadburner · May 2016

akirby said:
We had a 1981 Accord sedan with a stick. That was a neat little car.

Back in 1984 my future wife wanted a new Accord. It was during the "voluntary import quotas". Accords were the hot ticket and every Cincinnati Honda dealer we visited tried to pull some sort of scam. My father in law was a "Buick Man" so we went to the dealer he used and finally ended up with a new Skylark T-Type, which wasn't a bad car actually(I figured if we had to go Buick it would be one with at least a bit of performance). Thanks to that experience we never considered a Honda again. We never considered another Buick either, but that was all my doing. Well, I would take a 1970 GSX...

akirby · May 2016

I don't remember any scams from the Honda dealers. They just said "here is the price - get in line if you want one". Can't blame them for that.

suydam · May 2016

That's what I remember too. I just couldn't afford one back then.

sda · May 2016

suydam said:
Well it went to a good home. The guy was driving a '98 Contour. He needed a better ride!

How many miles did you have on the Accord? Was it fairly easy to sell at a good price? Sorry you sold it, we can't share notes any more.

andres3 · May 2016

I wish we could have kept my '03 Accord Coupe V6 LX in the family. I had a pending sale with my brother in law scheduled, but his sister-in-law (from another family than mine) somehow gave him horrible advice and got him to overspend on a brand new Altima 4-cylinder sedan, rather than get my 4 year old 60K mile Accord for a great price.

I am certain that Honda had many trouble-free miles left in it; certain enough I would have personally warranted it to 100K miles without a second thought or worry. He doesn't really have the money or savings to be buying brand new cars in my opinion.

He bought every conceivable add-on waste the dealer was selling (GAP, gap for gap, extended warranty, and who knows what in God's Earth else), and of course ended up totaling that Altima a few years (3) later so he got zero value from all that crappy expensive add-on stuff dealers like to sell. Thank goodness Geico treated him well on the value. Then he got a 1 year old at the time 20K mile '09 Mazda 6 base model 4 banger that he still has beating around.

How a young single man would rather have a low power 4-banger Altima Sedan than a V6 Accord Coupe is beyond me. I ended up putting it back on the market and got $250 more than I was going to sell it to him months and a few K miles earlier.

suydam · May 2016

sda said:

suydam said:
Well it went to a good home. The guy was driving a '98 Contour. He needed a better ride!
How many miles did you have on the Accord? Was it fairly easy to sell at a good price? Sorry you sold it, we can't share notes any more.

Only 33,500 miles, so got a very good price. I sold it in a day! I went under the Edmunds suggested private party price because of a few garage kisses and a replaced bumper (spousal unit backed into housekeeper's car!). And it was a colleague of ours. Should be enough to get a smaller car with some extra thrown in. It's a great car. I just need/want something smaller and this is a good time.

ab348 · May 2016

akirby said:
I don't remember any scams from the Honda dealers. They just said "here is the price - get in line if you want one". Can't blame them for that.

Up here the only Honda dealer at the time would add on every possible dealer accessory and then sell it for list price from a wait list. No choice of color either.

roadburner · May 2016

akirby said:
I don't remember any scams from the Honda dealers. They just said "here is the price - get in line if you want one". Can't blame them for that.

The Cincy dealers tried it all- wanting a cash deposit before taking an offer to the Sales Manager, refusing to talk prices- only payments, four squares...

berri · May 2016

Car dealers are still loading up cars with all kinds of dealer add on profit pads. Seems more prevalent with vehicles that are not from D3 though. Then places like Florida and Georgia have that Southeastern Toyota distributor that can really pile it on.

akirby · May 2016

That's the nice part about using X plan with Ford - dealer is prohibited from adding anything extra unless you ask for it and the documentation fee (otherwise known as additional dealer profit) is limited to $100.

andres3 · May 2016

So if I wanted the cheapest mid-size sedan lease money can buy, instead of getting a lower cost used car, what would be my best bet? I see Honda advertising Accords for $189/mo. I know I've received VW e-mails about Passats going for $99/mo, but that probably has a huge upfront fee. Never leased before, so could use all the help I can get to determine the best value for me. I saw something on Edmunds where it looked like the 3 year 36,000 mile total cost was somewhere in the neighborhood of $9,000 dollars. I'm a bottom line kind of guy and I think that makes it easiest to determine what the best deal is between apples and oranges. Might not be a terrible way to go and have a new daily driver car instead of an old beater. I'd probably only need 10K miles per year actually as my mileage may drop significantly with a new location for my job soon; being much less of a commute, and I'd probably still want to drive the Audi at least one day per week to work to keep it fresh and in shape, in addition to weekend fun use. I could easily adjust my mileage up or down by changing the split between my "future/theoretical" 2 cars for my use garage from 3/4 to 4/3 per week and vice versa! Being able to own and use 2 cars is great! Worst thing about it is the insurance costs.

brian125 · May 2016

andres3

Some good lease midsize deals with 1st month, dealer doc fee and maybe out of pocket taxes paid up front are Altima , Sonata , Camry. 3/36k . $169, 179, $189 month.

Lease prices have regional incentives check your state. I know here in NY I could lease a Altima for $169 month 3/36 with 1k out of pocket for above mentioned expenses. Every 1000 dollars you knock off vehicle price will save you around 30 dollars a month on a lease.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-leasing/monthly-199-lease-deals.html

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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