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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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I get letters from ambulance chasers every week wanting me to get on their VW TDI lawsuit bandwagon. I got a feeling people that sue VW will wait a long time for a court decision and likely get a lot less.
My take: the court systems will massively winnow & consolidate cases, like the CA Small Claims Court, http://www.courts.ca.gov/selfhelp-smallclaims.htm#geninfo.htm example: where an individual plaintive, without a lawyer won a (HUGE) precedent setting case against Honda Motor Company. The $ amount was CA SCC max or less. She proved in a court of law that Honda MO CO lied/mislead about the advertised MPG EPA/CARB & real world figures. The unexplained ( local, county, state, fed) action was to bar it from ALL (states) SCC's ?
I read an article (that almost made me laugh) indicating approximately 40% that signed up for the VW buyback offer was a majority!?
Conclusions:
1. VW was deliberately cheating even after the redesign - and they flashed my car last year and lied to me about why. One lie (at the sale time) was enough.
2. They designed the emissions system for the "clean diesel" models such that they could not withstand the strain of operating within the EPA test cycle. Therefore those systems were failing and they turned off the EPA cheat sooner to prevent failures. Their proposed "fix", even if they change out the catalytic converter, will implement a system for which the entire car was not designed. That means it is an unknown as to how well it will last.
After this mix up, even my wife (who loves the car), is thinking we need to turn it in. We had been considering keeping it.
Further, I'm thinking there has to be some fraction % (of 475,000 units) / faction that will be holding VW's, logistics, history, EPA, CARB's individual/collective feet to the fire! I then could point to mine & say mine is a (tiny) surviving example that cost VW $ 15.5 billion plus , and put EPA/CARB & the Eco Con's movements panties in a bunch! it also generated "16 tons" of journalistic brouhaha !
So far, like Gagrice, I've gotten $1,000 GW, VW roadside assist 3 yr.
(2009 VW Jetts TDI) I'm due $5,100 + some tbd $$'s, composed of two components. A tad less than $500 of the GW paid for the VW TDI's rear brake job. $500 buys 1/2 years' commute (15,000 miles yr) Then, I've got two years after approval to get the "fixes". This will not include logistic delays. The fixes (however much they would cost) will then have warranty of 120,000 miles. There will already be fixes to the fixes !
No matter what is approved or not, the car will always pass the CARB biannual smog inspections. I've already described (my) the out of warranty fixes: noteworthy the HPFP.. And here I am now wishing the old catalytic converter would've pooped out , Not too bad for a commute car that can easily go another 120,000 more miles (putting mine @ 240,000 to 265,000 miles) after mods !
@ those miles, it does beg the question: how many $$'s could I realistically get? BUT keep in mind the 94 to 97 TLC's are becoming very desirable, on the way to classic! http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/8-vehicles-that-will-become-classic-cars-in-20-years.html/8/ (aka, 2 stupid things I've done: sell my 1970 VW Beetle, not buying a $1,600 (restored, between $65,000 to $ 153,000)1964 Porsche 356 !
The 3.0 L TDI has yet to be settled.
The invalidation of the CA SCC's (less than $10,000) verdict was a hammer blow loss to the State's' as well as US freedoms. One does NOT need a lawyer in small claims court. It's a liberal's shame this story did not receive more TV coverage at the time. $9,700 settlement to $ ZERO, no matter how it is rationalized is a TAKING, sans NO "eminent domain" . The plantiff received no special treatment from Honda for her $200. I'm sure the insult to injury was she didn't get back the fees, nor any other costs she incurred for filing in small claims court. On a practical basis, this would mean she got back less than $200!
You know, I'm actually worried about VW itself (here in the US). I wouldn't be too surprised if they pulled the plug on diesel and maybe shut down the dealerships, leaving the Audi chain intact. Certainly, the last several times I've been in the dealership there has been nobody there. I'm not sure I want to risk it. You'd be stuck with independent mechanics, or Audi dealers. And they may well drop diesel here in the US anyway after this dust up.
On your Jetta, they are going to have to fit it with an Adblue system, taking up room (probably from the trunk space), and you are going to have to keep it filled - they will set the engine software to stop working if there is no Adblue. Combined with that, they will have to tune the engine to match the emissions (presumably "de-tune" the engine). I gather all that is going to be OK with you?
For the Jetta, it isn't going to be the same car as before. The Passat should be an easier fix and less impact.
In fact, I'm surprised they didn't just say they were going to buy all Jetta's back. And if that happens, I imagine CARB won't let them be registered in CA.
EDIT: Obviously, no one knows. But the fact that VW has tried to submit fixes up to now, and they have been rejected, is not a good sign.
I am already familiar with the Ad Blue. (two other Ad Blue TDI's.) Right now it is an erroneous assumption and with absolutely no basis in fact that the 2009 VW Jetta TDI is in violation of anything. Indeed biannual CARB smog tests pasted mine with flying colors! To wit, there are no articles indicating that it has been tested, tested. Secondarily to wit, nobody knows if my INDIVIDUAL or even collective 2009 Jetta TDI is in violation. They only tested three TDI's as I recall with one passing! Indeed the reality is that it's only an assumption that any approved fixes will indeed bring it into then a mythical close compliance !! The CARB bi annual SMOG TEST does NOT TEST for TDI smog!
VW has made no offer to buy back all Jetta's ( more monies) in case they are not able to effect EPA/CARB approval/s. There are costs to remove a STATED (reasonable, logical) option.
Your (Jetta) conclusion remains to be seen !
Volkswagen Not Sure it Will Bring Diesel Cars Back to U.S. Market (WSJ - free link at time of posting)
I've seen articles indicating they were going to put in the Adblue system as part of the fixes on the Jetta and Bug. Of course, can't find them now!
The 2015 Jetta had the Adblue system, so they have the basic knowledge - but it would be really expensive to add them on to the older Jetta.
BTW, forgot to add that with the adblue system, they need to add a heater to ensure it doesn't freeze.
The fact the Small Claims Court added the fees and costs of service processing to my judgment against a negligent driver was a nice little affirmation that I won the case, and a bit of a punitive thing to the insurance company.
I've won each time in CA SCC. It's kind of a neat feeling! Of course that gives way to the feeling that now you got to make sure they pony up !
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Your take away was not the case at all! The reversal on appeal really had nothing to do with the merits of the case.
The appeal & subsequent reversal was all about kicking that consumer to the curb! ($200 vs $9,700).
They wanted to deny the next wronged Honda hybrid owner from using the legitimate avenue to get justice (any person's day in court) without obscenely paid legal types & class action suits, to where little or nothing is awarded to the consumer. ($200 vs $9,700)
Gotta pay to play, which is a grand idea for those who can afford to try to get justice.
So given these injustices: I'm fine with running the 2009 Jetta TDI with a "new" catalytic converter, sans DEF! I'm beginning to think the emissions penalty to consumers at $5100 is not enough vs the millions of $$'s the lawyers & government agencies are getting! ?
Judges (and juries) do make mistakes too.
"In the weeks before Volkswagen's $14.7 billion settlement with the U.S. government over its emissions-cheating diesels was finalized, there was some doubt that the cars would ever be fully fixed. The recall fix has still yet to be approved, but increasingly, it looks like the cars affected will never meet U.S emissions standards.
The California Air Resources Board estimates that VW's fix will reduce emissions in cars equipped with 2.0-liter TDI engines between 80 and 90 percent, according to a Bloomberg report. While this does represent a significant reduction in Nitrogen Oxide emissions, it isn't enough to meet the standards VW originally intended to evade. As part of its settlement, VW will contribute $2.7 billion to fund pollution reduction efforts, and an additional $2 billion towards clean energy programs in an attempt to offset its excess pollution.
Fully fixing the cheating cars would likely involve adding a urea tank to each car affected, which was deemed far too expensive and complex to be done. That's why VW and U.S. regulators agreed on a settlement involving extensive buybacks, a partial fix, and pollution mitigation efforts. Additionally, the EPA wanted to arrive at a solution that prioritized reducing emissions and compensating owners as quickly as possible, rather than waiting for a full fix."
But if it ends up going where I think it will, I still think owners should get more monies & far LESS to wasteful government entities! They will sprinkle EPA/CARB Eco water over cars like mine & ...move on! Even if VW delays a couple of years, hope VW brings back TDI's!
Just as a TMI:
to lobotomize the TDI's not to so call "cheat" makes no sense @ all. They has NEVER been measured, nor will they be in the future: be they CA Bi annual to change of ownership smog inspections. To wit EPA/CARB already knows/s how to defeat the defeat codes. The TDI's never were tested anyway!?
So, they either cheated or they lied about cheating. Take your pick.
And.. @texases thanks for looking that up. I read a lot, but I'll be darned if I can back it up later, with quoted material.
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The app $18.32 B math is almost total BS! The "emissions" portion of $5,100 is only $ 2.4225 B of the nearly 18.32 B, VW plans to spend, assuming 100% sign up! I personally do not believe it will be near 100%, nor are there any figures to the contrary. . That leaves app $15.8975 B unaccounted for. At this writing, there's no reliable $ costs & unit #'s that will get the modifications.
"Michael Horn, CEO of the Volkswagen Group of America, vowed to make amends on Monday at a lavish event in New York to promote the 2016 Passat.
“Let’s be clear about this. Our company was dishonest with the EPA and the California air resources board and with all of you, and, in my German words, we have totally screwed up,” he told the audience.
Volkswagen CEO Martin Winterkorn had already apologised over the scandal, saying in a statement: “I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public.” (Euronews)
Of course those guys are gone and now VW is saying that they aren't admitting any liability in the EPA settlement.
That would impact their defense of the state suits, the individual suits, the dealerships' suits, and the FTC false advertising suit. Oh, and the criminal investigations.
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One of the world's largest shipping companies is sinking in a sea of red ink, leaving sailors and cargo stranded in vessels anchored offshore and merchants worrying they won't get goods in time for holiday shopping.
South Korea's Hanjin Shipping, the world's No. 7 shipping company, is in bankruptcy and has more than 40 massive container ships stranded at sea. It's estimated they're carrying $14 billion worth of goods -- everything from Samsung electronics and Nike sneakers to furniture and food.
“Our ships can become ghost ships,” Kim Ho Kyung, a manager at Hanjin Shipping’s labor union, told Bloomberg News. “Food and water are running down in those ships floating in international waters.”
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/09/12/sailors-cargo-stranded-at-sea-amid-global-shippers-bankruptcy.html
As I recall, the conversation was what would the cost have been on new assembly.
On the 2009 Jetta TDI, not a peep on the costs to "fix". Aka, no Ad Blue.
The plea copping VW engineer "is scheduled to be sentenced in Detroit by U.S. District Judge Sean Cox on Jan. 11 — smack in the middle of press week for the North American International Auto Show." How's that for timing? (Detroit News)
Meaning that they'll get 20,000 applications, including a few from Detroit.
Higher levels of management MAY have suspected, but that is A LONG way off from "proof", whatever that means in today's day & age. Besides the "usual suspects" have pulled their "golden parachutes". aka, Former CEO Winterkorn @ $ 60 M ?
GMTA? https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-vw-diesel-buyback-pays-owners-keep-cars-140000618.html
My two questions: Does he reasonably think he can put more miles on his next car, an EV? At cheaper $$'s, cpmd:depreciation. This is of course assuming he still has a requirement to do 22,000 miles per year.
His analysis make perfect sense if he's looking to get rid of these two cars (less than 154,000/74,000) or take advantage of a wildly cheaper cpmd:depreciation.
So while I can make the decision at the last minute, by September 2018, ( KBB value frozen @ Sep 2015 ($ 12,975 total) The total plus $ xx,xxx & up to 10% sales tax for a new car will solve my going forward commute issue.
another way to look at it:
Keeping the then "fixed" 2009 TDI, ($ 7,875) I (VW) can buy ( $5,100). 5.17 years of commuting (=77,567 miles/15,000 per yr, $5,100/$2.63 per gal ULSD= 1,939 gal*40 mpg) Keeping the car, using the $5,100 emissions penalty will put me @ 228,567 miles (app & projected).
So if I take the buy back, adding 1,000 GW, IRS tax credit $1,300, I will lose $4,725 (over 145,000 miles) or .0325862 cents per mile driven depreciation.
He's right, how many folks lose (only) 24% over 10 years? Basically it's less than $40 per mo.
What are wasted $$'s billions compared to $ 10 TRILLION ? (Siri sez 10,000 billion)
VW Might Be Giving Up Selling Diesels in the USA
https://www.hcn.org/articles/the-u-s-s-only-rare-earth-mine-files-bankruptcy