What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

sda · January 2017

xwesx said:
Average was just over 17 mpg on the Forester. Blech!

What mpg do you normally get out of the Forester, 25ish?

ruking1 · January 2017

According to fuelly.com, the 2014 Subaru Forrester gets about 25-ish and the 2010 gets about 22-ish mpg So severe winter weather operations of 17 ish mpg are within the 10% to 20% loss.

xwesx · January 2017

sda said:

xwesx said:
Average was just over 17 mpg on the Forester. Blech!
What mpg do you normally get out of the Forester, 25ish?

Yeah, that's about right during summer months. Total "lifetime" average, which is only about 17,000 miles on this car, is a tiny bit over 21. The car has just over 140,000 miles on it. Considering what I received for the paltry $3,500 I paid for it two years ago, I'm quite satisfied with it so far. Satisfied enough, anyway, that I'm in "wait and watch" mode for finding the right car to buy next, which I very much want to be a diesel.

gagrice · January 2017

XwesX says: I very much want to be a diesel.

Considering where you live and the dealers you have in Fairbanks, I would wait and see how the new GM Equinox/Terrain diesels pan out. Unless you want to risk the big bucks on a Jaguar F-Pace or BMW X3/5 diesel. Not much else out there. Of course I love my VW Touareg diesel. But without a dealer close by, I would not have bought it. One of my concerns with the new GM CUV diesels coming out is the fact they stayed with a 6 speed automatic vs the 9 speed offered with the gas versions. Maybe their new 9 speed is not robust enough for a diesel engine even a small 1.6L diesel. If I am in the market I will go and look at the Denali version of the GMC Terrain diesel. They are losing 5 inches bringing them very close to the Forster size CUV.

ruking1 · January 2017

The TDI in concert with 7,8,9 speed AT offers hosts of advantages that can be (easily) overlooked!

On (my) acceleration/s the "manuel or semi" automatic (7/8speed AT) mode gets almost no use.1. On more "spirited" upshifts, the S option " sport" allows more rpm between (auto) shifts. 2. There is no doubt in my mind more gears (7,8,9) helps with mpg! 3. In more normal operations, there can be a visceral feeling the vehicle is not quite in the right : a. gear b. rpm. The solution is to get over it. Once one gets over it, use it how it should be used!

However on DEceleration, the "manual or semi" automatic mode gets used a LOT ! 1. huge % brake use decreases, due to a number of reasons & combinations. What does thi mean practically? Coming down out of the mountains, I have literally followed cars using the brakes 50 to 100 times or more, to my 5 to 10. Most times the reason I had to use the brakes that often is that person in front of me, slows down more than they should have to, ergo, decreasing my space cushion. Thank goodness passing lanes are at most 4 miles apart !! 2. helps in space cushion distances 3. Better mpg, due to deceleration ZERO fuel draw 4. Deceleration torque, while not up to proportion in a big rig is still very good

xwesx · January 2017

gagrice said:
XwesX says: I very much want to be a diesel.

Considering where you live and the dealers you have in Fairbanks, I would wait and see how the new GM Equinox/Terrain diesels pan out. Unless you want to risk the big bucks on a Jaguar F-Pace or BMW X3/5 diesel. Not much else out there. Of course I love my VW Touareg diesel. But without a dealer close by, I would not have bought it. One of my concerns with the new GM CUV diesels coming out is the fact they stayed with a 6 speed automatic vs the 9 speed offered with the gas versions. Maybe their new 9 speed is not robust enough for a diesel engine even a small 1.6L diesel. If I am in the market I will go and look at the Denali version of the GMC Terrain diesel. They are losing 5 inches bringing them very close to the Forster size CUV.

I am planning on that, for sure, Gary. The Equinox looks promising to me right now.

Responding to what @ruking1 mentioned in the preceding post, it seems that higher gearing is a good way to achieve better highway economy, yet I doubt there is a need for quite the number of speeds that a gasoline engine might need in order to feel smooth and stay in that "sweet spot" for power and economy. The high torque / low RPM combination lends itself well to simpler, albeit robust, supporting technology.

So, fewer gears, with those present designed to mesh the car into those common speeds while keeping it at optimal power/economy, just seems like the smart move. I'm not saying any manufacturer has actually *done* this when deciding which transmission to mate with which engine! But, in a six speed, maybe optimize it for: 10, 25, 40, 55, 65, 75.

andres3 · January 2017

xwesx said:

gagrice said:
XwesX says: I very much want to be a diesel.

Considering where you live and the dealers you have in Fairbanks, I would wait and see how the new GM Equinox/Terrain diesels pan out. Unless you want to risk the big bucks on a Jaguar F-Pace or BMW X3/5 diesel. Not much else out there. Of course I love my VW Touareg diesel. But without a dealer close by, I would not have bought it. One of my concerns with the new GM CUV diesels coming out is the fact they stayed with a 6 speed automatic vs the 9 speed offered with the gas versions. Maybe their new 9 speed is not robust enough for a diesel engine even a small 1.6L diesel. If I am in the market I will go and look at the Denali version of the GMC Terrain diesel. They are losing 5 inches bringing them very close to the Forster size CUV.
I am planning on that, for sure, Gary. The Equinox looks promising to me right now.

Responding to what @ruking1 mentioned in the preceding post, it seems that higher gearing is a good way to achieve better highway economy, yet I doubt there is a need for quite the number of speeds that a gasoline engine might need in order to feel smooth and stay in that "sweet spot" for power and economy. The high torque / low RPM combination lends itself well to simpler, albeit robust, supporting technology.

So, fewer gears, with those present designed to mesh the car into those common speeds while keeping it at optimal power/economy, just seems like the smart move. I'm not saying any manufacturer has actually *done* this when deciding which transmission to mate with which engine! But, in a six speed, maybe optimize it for: 10, 25, 40, 55, 65, 75.

Utah and Texas have 80 and 85 MPH speed limits; let's optimize top gears for those speeds

ruking1 · January 2017

It was easy to shoot along at 85, 90, 95 mph on Interstate 40 EB/WB, In the 2003 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed MT !

Both the MB GLK 250 BT & VW Touareg TDI are optimized for 81 mph! (7th/8th gears) I've snailed down Interstate 5 SB/NB in either & any number of times. There is no doubt in my mind either could run all day all night ( 12 to 24 hours) with no issues.

The reason and reasoning are probably TMI.

xwesx · January 2017

andres3 said:
Utah and Texas have 80 and 85 MPH speed limits; let's optimize top gears for those speeds

Perhaps a matter of opinion here, but just because there are a few (outlier) SLs that high, doesn't mean the vehicle should be *optimized* for traveling those speeds. Particularly not the vehicles we're discussing, which are pushing their limits of practical safety at 80+. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with driving up there, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers to add design and production cost (e.g., add gears) to the vehicle in order to handle those outliers.

andres3 · January 2017

xwesx said:

andres3 said:
Utah and Texas have 80 and 85 MPH speed limits; let's optimize top gears for those speeds
Perhaps a matter of opinion here, but just because there are a few (outlier) SLs that high, doesn't mean the vehicle should be *optimized* for traveling those speeds. Particularly not the vehicles we're discussing, which are pushing their limits of practical safety at 80+. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with driving up there, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers to add design and production cost (e.g., add gears) to the vehicle in order to handle those outliers.

I can't help but think the design parameter of lowly 55 MPH speed limits still has something to do with the fact my autobahn designed A3 didn't overheat the transmission oil during a 30 minute track session, while my rental Camaro V6 did go into limp mode on the regular even though it was pretty much brand new.

Lower thresholds, lower engineering. I prefer the higher and more robust engineering; then again, I actually use it, whereas most users don't venture into those performance parameters unless they live near the Autobahn.

xwesx · January 2017

andres3 said:
Lower thresholds, lower engineering.

I do not disagree with the basic point here. Using examples of oranges in a discussion about apples doesn't effectively strengthen the argument, though.

gagrice · January 2017

Reading about President Trump and PM May meeting. The PM has to be happy about the sale of Land Rovers and Jaguars in the US last year. When you consider this from the Brits.

Diesel powered versions of Range Rover and Range Rover Sport continue to play an important role in the Land Rover lineup with a 15 percent take rate.

And the F-Pace diesel seems to also be a big hit. I know most of the F-Pace at our dealer are diesels.

In the US, year to date through December, Jaguar has more than doubled its volume with sales up 116 percent to 31,243 units sold versus 14,466 in 2015. Full year sales were led by the brand’s new volume leader F-PACE with 10,016 sales. The XE hit 6,656 units sold. The all new Jaguar XF increased 12 percent to 6,665 units sold for the year.

ruking1 · January 2017

Great news for diesel's new leaders, Land Rover & Jaguar ! While I hope VW/MB et al. do not abandon US market diesels, cheers go to the new competitors. In any case, diesels remain a US niche market.

In "global warming news", according to the local news (KTVU 2) I may have SEVERELY underestimated the amount of snowfall in the Sierra's! ( by 10 or more ft) Those weather types with access to WAY more information that I will ever have, indicate it may be as high as 500 inches so far, this year, aka, 41.67 ft!

Also so far, SF is not underwater. Keep in mined much of SF's land (financial district) was reclaimed ( circa 1849 ) from deep water, which used to dock ocean going vessels.

There are ZERO plans to elavate SFO's 4 runways!! Indeed a scant 17 years ago (2000) they sunk more than $ 1 B in SFO improvements. Why would anyone in their right minds do that if they were expecting the airport to flood over (13 ft above sea level) ???? For those that do not know, the 4 runways are surrounded by Bay Area ocean fed salt waters!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_International_Airport

But like I've maintained, even Eco conservatives don't believe their own blather/s. These are facts, not insults!? Mudder natures' forces utterly CRUSHED the Cons' (fairly tails) forces!

More on topic, LA LA Lands county emissions experts have (de facto) admitted they can do nothing to fix the NOX issue caused by the 95% to 97 % gas/gas hybrid PVF. Indeed the greatest fleet of EV gas hybrids, etc., cars, in the great LA LA metropolitan area have shown not even measurable progress on the (N0x) issue!

Yet, the powers that be want to perform a "full term" abortion on (both affected & upcoming ) VW diesels! Yet, grammar school math shows beyond a doubt that a 60% diesel PVF drops oil (barrel) demand & by significant numbers!

fintail · January 2017

Of course Jag sales are up, as they were really kind of sad before these new models. Reminds me of a classic Simpsons scene:

Jag profits also go to India, which amuses me. Indians like Jags more now.

I had my worst diesel mpg readout yesterday. 19.6 mpg in suburban stop and go driving, due to insane idling times via poor traffic controls and idiotically planned construction on a major road on a Friday afternoon. Of course, a gasser might have displayed 10 mpg during this, but still irritating. Do the self-loathing eco-cons do this on purpose? I often believe they do, as they often seem to scheme their way into public sector infrastructure management positions in this region. They don't seem to realize that the buses they want for everyone but themselves get stuck in this too, along with zero pollution (LOLOL) hybrids and EVs.

ruking1 · January 2017

ruking1 said:
Great news for diesel's new leaders, Land Rover & Jaguar ! While I hope VW/MB et al. do not abandon US market diesels, cheers go to the new competitors. In any case, diesels remain a US niche market.

In "global warming news", according to the local news (KTVU 2) I may have SEVERELY underestimated the amount of snowfall in the Sierra's! ( by 10 or more ft) Those weather types with access to WAY more information that I will ever have, indicate it may be as high as 500 inches so far, this year, aka, 41.67 ft!

Also so far, SF is not underwater. Keep in mined much of SF's land (financial district) was reclaimed ( circa 1849 ) from deep water, which used to dock ocean going vessels.

There are ZERO plans to elavate SFO's 4 runways!! Indeed a scant 17 years ago (2000) they sunk more than $ 1 B in SFO improvements. Why would anyone in their right minds do that if they were expecting the airport to flood over (13 ft above sea level) ???? For those that do not know, the 4 runways are surrounded by Bay Area ocean fed salt waters!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_International_Airport

But like I've maintained, even Eco conservatives don't believe their own blather/s. These are facts, not insults!? Mudder natures' forces utterly CRUSHED the Cons' (fairly tails) forces!

More on topic, LA LA Lands county emissions experts have (de facto) admitted they can do nothing to fix the NOX issue caused by the 95% to 97 % gas/gas hybrid PVF. Indeed the greatest fleet of EV gas hybrids, etc., cars, in the great LA LA metropolitan area have shown not even measurable progress on the (N0x) issue!

Yet, the powers that be want to perform a "full term" abortion on (both affected & upcoming ) VW diesels! Yet, grammar school math shows beyond a doubt that a 60% diesel PVF drops oil (barrel) demand & by significant numbers!

Indeed the climate " change" "global warming" that even in the Eco (ultra left wing) conservative SF, the Eco (fairy tale) blather is just that, ... blather. This article, but more graphically graphics shows HUGE apts complexes, emergency response health care critical hospital site, as well as two proposed new (18,000 person ) stadium (Golden State Warriors) being built on old piers &/or closed to water! (circa (barring any lawsuits) 2019? 2020)

http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-shift-arena-plans-to-Mission-Bay-5418579.php

Like I've said in the past, I can't even make this stuff up !

ruking1 · January 2017

The 2014 MB GLK 250BT got back posting 36 mpg (36.4 mpg, 510 miles, 14 gal). No drama when the low fuel lamp lit. (15.6 gal fuel tank)

20.9 mpg seems to be the ( fuelly.com) AVG for the like RUG model (2014 GLK 350).

We are dieseling on (74.2% better than the gasser) !?

fintail · January 2017

A maybe 85/15 highway/suburbs cruise of about 100 miles today returned 40.x mpg per the computer - not too bad for the amount of time idling at unsequenced lights. With diesel currently 2 cents more than RUG at the Chevron I patronize, seems like a good deal.

ruking1 · January 2017

Yes! The best I've seen so far were 49.9 mpg's coming off the Highway 50 SB mountains for 65/100 miles. The 2.1 L MB BT engine has some very wide ranges, a keeper for sure!

fintail · January 2017

The best highway run I've noticed so far:

ruking1 · January 2017

Between your 40 mpg sedan, non 4matic & my 36.4 mpg (computer/low fuel lamp lit), the 4matic/CUV premium appears to be app -4 mpg.

Other "branding" news, Toyota seem to have sold less autos than VW, a scant less than 17 mo after the "dieselgate" brouhaha breakout ? Hmmmm... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-sold-10-2-million-045246499.html

gagrice · January 2017

I find it quite amusing that VW sold 322,948 vehicles last year in the USA and still came out on top in World sales. Which tells me the US market is not needed to keep a company on top in the World. 3% of VW sales is a small drop in the bucket. Not worth building a massive factory in TN. I would imagine they know that and it could be part of the shake up in the VW corporation. Touareg sales were off by 40% last year. Which tells me the Diesel was a big part of their market share. Adding 20% to the Jetta coming from Mexico should just about killed it. If VW wants to stay in the US they better build the Jetta and Golf in TN.

ruking1 · January 2017

Adding Jetta, Golf and CUV to the (made for US market) Passat would faster & better load the Chattanooga, TN plant. I have read VW's original plant targets 850,000 units per year.That would be 212,000 units per model. But right now, that is the cart before the tax/profit horse. I'm sure they would have to invest more money to run four or more models.

fintail · January 2017

The VW sales results really are interesting. In 5 years I doubt any non-enthusiasts will remember Dieselgate. In much of the world, nobody cared. The German people I know believed it is "political", and they aren't wrong.

I also wouldn't panic over the 20% thing just yet - Our Dear Orange Leader isn't going to be able to push through his questionable economic babble that easy.

ruking1 · January 2017

The 2003 VW Jetta TDI might be a prime example. It has been & remains almost totally under the radar. Eco conservatives wil sound the " global warming" ARMEGGDON BELLS KLAXON & DRUMS against TDI's !

But I think even (elitist) Hollywood types might even suspect this is totally fictitious, to some deep George Soro's (take over the world) conspiratorial call, worse (fiction) than almost all products coming out of there!? The Wizad in OZ got out ted! But then on the other hand, I'm reminded of an old saying: just because they are paranoid doesn't mean someone ain't out to get em!?

A tad more (48% to 45.9%) of "the VOTERS " were looking forward to the $15,000 religious robe/pant suit candidate's victory! Was there disappointment in the outcome?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

Hang onto your aluminum scunchie hat attennas, they soon might be collectibles?

andres3 · January 2017

People that have had to deal with a clunker lemon know that the VW emissions scandal is worth at most a footnote in life. What really is the big story that impacts peoples lives is when a manufacturer sells a lemon.

xwesx · January 2017

Speaking about Volkswagen, they have a cold weather testing facility located here. I often see a few of their test mules out and about. However, on Saturday morning, I saw a bonafide caravan of them! Many were some sort of boxy minivan-looking thing that I had never seen before. There were six of them consecutively (IIRC), and were flanked on the front by a variety of Golfs and in the rear by Audi SUVs.

I would be curious about that boxy rig, if I thought there was any chance it was going to be a diesel! LOL

ruking1 · January 2017

It almost makes you wonder at some of the logic, given very small VW yearly models/ overall production (350,000 units/) & small (overall) US market lshare.

However, it could make a certain amount of sense, IF it is actually a VW world testing facility. In that case, some to a majority (60%) of that mystery caravan will certainly wind up as diesels.

But then folks @ CNET think VW is trying to develop/ use tools for ruling the auto world in 2018 from 10 miles from my house!? https://www.cnet.com/news/volkswagen-tries-to-conquer-the-world-with-tech/

xwesx · January 2017

Hard to believe that the article you linked is nearly five years old already!

ruking1 · January 2017

Scary (that in 2016/2017 MY's ) VW's auto production can surpass #1 Toyota's ? This was per the step goals, which were later modified to denied ?

Well, ... if your building is sinking, I guess you could say the OCEAN level is rising!? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/58-story-skyscraper-san-francisco-170300812.html

fintail · January 2017

After another dopey commute, the idea of a diesel hybrid looks more and more appealing. Why can't we have these? They exist in more open markets.

Of course, by the time the Generalissimo who makes wild vote claims but can't put up any evidence gets his little trickle downy mitts on trade policy, German cars might cost twice as much as now - I see the greenback has slumped a little, and he (or a brave warrior for justice and freedom like Bannon? or Putin?) is picking a little trade fight with Germany. With the price of German cars relative to a strong dollar and relatively open trade, that doesn't bode well.

ruking1 · January 2017

By the way TDI's have been vilified, I think the answers have been long.baked into the regulations, requirements!? IF the Prius had a like model TDI, circa 2003, it would probably have had monster mpg ratings & even better real world postings. Why sit in a Polo sized car @ 75mpg, when a Prius sized car could post 65 to 78 mpg?

ruking1 · February 2017

Since it's been a while since 2003, at that time, Prius gas hybrid owners were PO'd @ way sub EPA mpg. At that time, I had estimated that to be approximately 38 to 43 MPG from a EPA 60 city 50 highway.

In contrast, the (my) 2003 Jetta TDI was getting between 48 and 52 mpg. IF that would've been a hybrid, one could probably look back on a minimum of 62 mpg (20% hybrid advantage) AVERAGE for 186,000 miles !! The TMI kicker was the US market version was penalized -10 hp less power & sported a 5 speed MT. The European version had more #ft (177/155) torque and sporting a 6 speed, posting 2 mpg better overall. I'm sure anyone can see the no brainer ?'s here? So while I have been very happy with the 50 mpg over 14 years (relatively) , a real ? would have been: would 60 mpg have been a good p/p, price/performance ratio worth the ($ unk) premium? (620 gal saved)

Indeed, the (my) best tank full was 62 mpg, non hybrid. So reasonably, a TDI hybrid hybrid could have easily been 75 mpg.

Why would the system REALLY want these types of great savings & on a wide scale ? We haven't even factored in the barrel of oil: 19 gal gasoline to 13 gals ULSD (ratio)! Utilization of that ratio by itself could save a minimum of - minus 60 % to 70% demand for oil! Indeed Europe prices fuel way higher (overt & defacto multiple taxes)

The VW 3.0 L TDI settlements articles are still light on details, i.e., emissions, tax penalties, $ range of buy backs: 2009 to 2012 MY, any to specific, KBB used car values as of Sep 15, 2015 ? but...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-pay-least-1-2-085223606.html

andres3 · February 2017

Well, my family is all set with a brand new German car built in Mexico pre-20% tariff I picked up last night at VW. See Chronic Car Buyers for details. This should hold us for 4 or 8 years

ruking1 · February 2017

I'm actually getting a pretty good laugh ! It starts with Toyota's 8 speed AT IN the 2012 VW Touareg TDI, made with Porsche Cayennes on the same assembly lines (Slovakia, without looking @ paperwork, for those who really want the 411: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Cayenne)

Let us all know how you folks like that 2017 Golf all track! I probably would not be a buyer even in TDI. Even in 4 motion, CA trans would still (probably) make us chain up.

Anymore, one can buy a car from factory pre order/ order made, factory inventory, to FOB, from port, from overall inventory, regional, dealers to broker. I'm sure I've left a few paths out.

gagrice · February 2017

Always said Bosch was involved. They are going to pay up for their part in Dieselgate. Just send me the $20,000 and all will be forgiven....

VW, Robert Bosch To Pay $1.6B Diesel Settlement

Separately, German auto supplier Robert Bosch (OTC:BSWQY) will pay $327.5M to compensate owners in connection with VW, Audi and Porsche emissions claims.

http://seekingalpha.com/news/3239362-vw-robert-bosch-pay-1_6b-diesel-settlement

kyfdx · February 2017

gagrice said:
Always said Bosch was involved. They are going to pay up for their part in Dieselgate. Just send me the $20,000 and all will be forgiven....

VW, Robert Bosch To Pay $1.6B Diesel Settlement

Separately, German auto supplier Robert Bosch (OTC:BSWQY) will pay $327.5M to compensate owners in connection with VW, Audi and Porsche emissions claims.

http://seekingalpha.com/news/3239362-vw-robert-bosch-pay-1_6b-diesel-settlement

$350 each from Bosch for 2.0 litre owners. Nice bonus!

houdini1 · February 2017

fintail said:
After another dopey commute, the idea of a diesel hybrid looks more and more appealing. Why can't we have these? They exist in more open markets.

Of course, by the time the Generalissimo who makes wild vote claims but can't put up any evidence gets his little trickle downy mitts on trade policy, German cars might cost twice as much as now - I see the greenback has slumped a little, and he (or a brave warrior for justice and freedom like Bannon? or Putin?) is picking a little trade fight with Germany. With the price of German cars relative to a strong dollar and relatively open trade, that doesn't bode well.

Not perfect, but sure beats the alternative.

fintail · February 2017

A strong dollar and good relations with a legitimate ally? Yeah, terrible thoughts

I was thinking of something - if "clean diesel" is such an offensive term, why aren't "zero emissions" EVs being raked over the coals and taken to court?

houdini1 said:

Not perfect, but sure beats the alternative.

houdini1 · February 2017

fintail said:
A strong dollar and good relations with a legitimate ally? Yeah, terrible thoughts

I was thinking of something - if "clean diesel" is such an offensive term, why aren't "zero emissions" EVs being raked over the coals and taken to court?

houdini1 said:

Not perfect, but sure beats the alternative.

No, Hillary and Soros. Just read on another forum that our friendly moderator Steve retired !

fintail · February 2017

I distrust Donnie and Bannon more, but that's just me. If anything, I suspect gas (and diesel) prices are set to rise again. This might help diesels, but only if good ones are available - US-built diesels that aren't enormous trucks are a fairly rare breed.

That's a shock about Steve, I hope nothing bad happened to him.

houdini1 · February 2017

A couple of other mods said he wanted to spend more time on other projects. Seemed awful sudden. Maybe Trump is considering him for an ambassadorship.

ruking1 · February 2017

All the best to Steve!

houdini1 · February 2017

Shifty said they had someone else in mind, but he took another job defusing land mines.

ruking1 · February 2017

fintail said:
I distrust Donnie and Bannon more, but that's just me. If anything, I suspect gas (and diesel) prices are set to rise again. This might help diesels, but only if good ones are available - US-build diesels that aren't enormous trucks are a fairly rare breed.

That's a shock about Steve, I hope nothing bad happened to him.

Higher barrel of oil prices are "baked into the 2017 cake", so to speak. Whether resultant higher fuel prices are a large % factor in helping "good diesels" to the US markets are highly unlikely.

gagrice · February 2017

ruking1 said:
All the best to Steve!

I wondered where he got off to? I know he was thinking about another move from NM. Maybe he moved where there is no Internet. Many places you can get completely off the grid, except for satellite service. I will miss him for sure.

Michaell · February 2017

gagrice said:

ruking1 said:
All the best to Steve!
I wondered where he got off to? I know he was thinking about another move from NM. Maybe he moved where there is no Internet. Many places you can get completely off the grid, except for satellite service. I will miss him for sure.

You'll still have the rest of us moderators around, to keep the conversation rolling (coal) along.

fintail · February 2017

Yep, higher prices via a weaker dollar and more global tension due to a few warm bodies (I won't call them "souls") acting out on their narcissistic impulses are pretty much guaranteed.

Rising prices during the previous decade spurred diesel sales and new offerings IMO (see how many diesel BMWs and MBs were on the market in 2005, then examine 2012), the collapse of oil prices, and later Dieselgate, harmed them. Now dumbo trade policy may simply prevent makers from bringing such products to a restricted market.

ruking1 said:

Higher barrel of oil prices are "baked into the 2017 cake", so to speak. Whether resultant higher fuel prices are a large % factor in helping "good diesels" to the US markets are highly unlikely.

ruking1 · February 2017

Yo yo (barrel of) oil pricing are both a form of global economic warfare, but closer to home, to keep the frackers in check.

Previous & the last administrations' use of the EPA as political tools & mafia like $$'s extortion might truly be a intuitive- counterintuitive major driving force.

It's been LONG apparent (50 years in my case) that gasser been, is, remains WAY off MPG targets. FF & to wit, they are STILL far short to the 2025 54.5 mpg standard, sans diesels.

Indeed even the Eco conservatives have signaled (de facto) DENIAL & DEFEAT, discussed in this GREEN article. Even better, the real policy GOAL (40 mpg) is in the title!!?? http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098068_lets-be-clear-real-2025-gas-mileage-goal-is-40-mpg--or-so--not-54-5-mpg
Who knows what the real figures will be? My money is on figures far south of 40 mpg.

The laws & regulations are designed to put one to sleep. Byzantine would be PC & an extreme insult to that religion! One example might be that E85 Chevrolet Suburban's (GM, Ford, Chrysler, big SUV to light truck segments) are credited at 100 miles per gallon for mpg calculative goals!? . (I think the Germans were just duplicating the principle; ...just on the N0X issue)

Even I would admit that would be cool

beans, IF true. Yet in the real world, it might only deliver 20 mpg & even 20 mpg would be in somebody's game fish yarn. OK OK! Then that would mean your 40 mpg diesel should be rated @ 200 mpg.

But really it's far easier than that: a.k.a., espouse FAR less consumption, consume FAR more! I've used the PUG 19 gals /ULSD 13 gal ratio, MB GLK 350, 21 mpg/250 BT, 36 mph example with 15,000 miles per year. The defact facts are undeniable: why consume less, when you can consume WAY MORE?

fintail · February 2017

I suppose consuming more is more profits for some. Surprised diesels are legal at all!

ruking1 · February 2017

fintail said:
I suppose consuming more is more profits for some. Surprised diesels are legal at all!

ABSOLUTELY! Yes, I do prefer diesels! Some might distain PROFIT. HOWEVER, how many folks want to work for companies that don't profit or lose money?

"Labor costs"are fully 30 % to 35%. Without high labor %'s there are no (USA) jobs! .?

GM with union board members & large union & union pension ownership are seeing what it's really like!! ?

VW despite its LARGE size, posts roughly about 2% profit. Their long-term goal is 4% . Both actual & forward goals for a lot of reasons are very weak! It's one of the reasons why VW's can be & remain good buys!

Strictly old news, but it was WONDERFUL when the so called "diesel gate" news broke!!!

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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