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Comments
Best Regards,
Shipo
Hmmm, I think the Mobil 1 that you are referring to is actually their 0W-40. That oil carries many certifications for oil standards, most notably the BMW LL-01 and VW 503.01 certifications. The problem I have with the Amsoil EuroSpec 5W-40 is that it isn't certified to actually meet the individual manufacturer standards, they only claim that it meets the specs. Some folks dismiss this simply as a technicality due to the expense of certification, and happily use Amsoil. For my money though I'll use the certified 0W-40 Mobil 1.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Hmmm, well I've yet to use Mobil 1 EP in any of my cars, however, given that my Mobil 1 0W-40 is still slightly tranlucent after 10,000 miles of use, I'm a little surprised that yours is dark at 4,000.
Hmmmm (again), I wonder if the Mobil 1 in your engine is cleaning up various sundry dirts, debris and varnishes left behind by your Havoline. I don't think I'd read too much into the color of your oil for at least two or three oil changes. That having been said, the color of any given oil has very little to do with how well it is protecting the engine its in.
FWIW, I know that many folks claim that their engines stay perfectly clean with Havoline and other premium conventional oils, however, based upon the stability issue alone (conventional oils vaporize at a lower temperature than full synthetic oils, and as such cause more varnish) I'd be willing to bet that your new Mobil 1 is just cleaning house a little.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Go to bobistheoilguy.com, click on forums, and then click on the thread titled "Are synthetics really worth the extra bucks?"
There are many in this thread who are claiming just the opposite of some of your claims.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Hmmm, I took a look and as per usual the information, misinformation, facts and factoids are flying around like the furball that was the Marianas Turkey Shoot. As a general rule I've decided to bow out of most of the discussions over there as the huge egos and such are just not worth crossing swords with. :P
Best Regards,
Shipo
Sorry for letting you down.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Pretty funny, in Uncle Sam's Misguided Children we used to say, "Are you sure this is the best hill to make your enemy die on?"
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. ;-)
Semper Fi,
Shipo
Point is, some battles on the INternet are not worth fighting...I like forums where people are looking for answers, or even willing to change their minds....
A dealer told me that if you change oil every 3 to 5K, you don't need to use Synthetic Oils, Can you elaborate on the wear protection of Synthetics? Thank You. :lemon:
Since that time I have used M1 0w20 and it has been absoluely good to go for 10k oci's. After the warranty period, I will be going to 20k OCI's. Fuel mileage in a daily commute 54 miles R/T has been between 38-42 mpg. This is on one of the most congested freeways in the nation.
I'm thinking about doing this for my cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for what to use in your Accord, I don't really know enough about the engine and why Honda recommends a 20 weight oil to comfortably recommend anything above a 0W-20.
As for that silly comment by your dealer, well, consider the source. I can honestly say that some of the absolute worst advice on automotive maintenance that I've ever heard came from dealership mechanics. So, were I in your shoes I'd buy a bunch of Mobil 1 0W-20, run it for say 10,000 miles, then extract a small sample and send it in for analysis. Assuming all is well I'd extend the OCI to whatever felt comfortable. Once again, ruking1 seems to think that a 20,000 mile OCI is reasonable, and I strongly suspect that oil analysis will support that OCI as well.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
If nothing else, give it three oil changes before you make a rash decision.
I posted some pictures of Mobil 1 0W-40 pooled in the rocker arms of our 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan earlier this year. At the time when the picture was taken there was just over 4,000 miles on the oil shown in the picture and as you can see it's pretty darn clear. That of course was oil that has been run in an engine that's seen nothing but Mobil 1 for the previous 90,000 miles, long enough (and then some) to make sure the engine is perfectly clean inside. I'm sure I've directed you to the pictures before, however, now may be a good time to do it again. You can find them at: HTTP://photos.yahoo.com/shipo
Once there, click on the "Caravan Stuff" album and look at the photos of the oil filler hole in the rocker cover. To get the full effect you will need to click on the "Download" button.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Unless one does a chemical analysis, there is really no scientific basis for presuming that dark-colored oil is any less effective than clear honey-colored oil,IMO.
As a sidenote, I think lots of snake-oil scams use irrelevant visual evidence to sell the junk they sell.
Maybe you should to a chemical analysis to put your mind at ease--or prove that you DO have something to worry about in your particular case---either way.....
I've gotta tell ya, that is another statement (like judging the quality of an oil based upon its color) that has absolutely no scientific basis. If you want to spend more money and protect your engine less by using Havoline, then that's great. That said, until you've proven your suppositions scientifically (highly unlikely), they are going to fall upon deaf ears around here, mine included.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Never had any problems with those diesels and many of them were using amsoil, with 20,000-25,000 mile OCIs, for over 200,000 miles.
I recently purhcased a 2007 Avalon and right now it has 250 miles. After reading this forum, I would like to change the oil to Mobil 1 syn. Can I change the oil tomorrow or should I wait until the 1st scheduled maintenance?
Meanwhile, I live in NJ and which 0W-## whould you recommend for this vehicle?
I expect to drive about 10,000 mi a year. Do you think it's ok to change oil once a year with M1 syn?
Please let me know what you think and thank you in advance.
Regards,
Chuasan
- Can you change your oil tomorrow? Yes, however, I don't see any benefit to doing the change prior to the two or three thousand mile mark.
- Living in NJ I think that a 0W-?? oil would serve you well. What are the oils recommended by Toyota?
- Can you change your oil every 10,000 miles? Most probably, however, having your oil analyzed will be the only way to make absolutely sure. That said, I suggest you stick with their recommended OCI while your car is under warranty.
- Changing your oil yearly (assuming the oil isn't exhausted from excessive hours of operation) isn't a problem at all. BMW has retroactively rescinded it's annual synthetic oil change requirement as they've found that it is unnecessary.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Unless you REALLY fall into the severe category (most folks do NOT; but self categorize themselves into it) go by the normal OCI.
I personally would start to use synthetic by the first or second OCI (AFTER the first OCI, factory fill) to allow for the early break in action and procedures so necessary for long engine life (barring any manufacturing defects)
Toyota recommends 5W-30 for 2007 Avalon every 5,000 miles. This thing takes 6.4 quarts of oil per oil change... My cureent G20 only need 3.5 or so...
Thank you and others for giving me advice on this topic. I guess I will switch to syn after the first oil change.
Shipo, so whcih oil will you recommend? 0W or 5W? Thanks again
Best Regards,
Shipo
Why use synthetic if you're going to use regular oil's OIC values?
>, I suspect that a 10,000 mile OCI will actually prove to be rather conservative.
Why not use longer intervals instead of wasting money and the oil product by changing it out so early and throwing it away?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
One word: "Warranty"
"Why not use longer intervals instead of wasting money and the oil product by changing it out so early and throwing it away?"
I'm not advocating changing oil before its time; I'm recommending that a 10,000 mile OCI is a good starting point to allow UOA to establish what the correct OCI should be. That said, some folks resist the notion of having UOAs performed and so I'm thinking that 10,000 will be safe without any data to support the notion of a longer OCI. Why only 10,000 miles? Two words immediately come to mind: "Toyota & Sludge"
Best Regards,
Shipo
Then you change the mileage to 10000 miles after the 4 years 48K mi warranty?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Some manufacturers do. BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche all recommend OCIs of 10,000 miles or more, sometimes MUCH more. My 530i, which had an oil life monitor (OLM), recommended the first oil change at 13,500 miles (not too surprising given the number of hours it spent over 100 mph while I had it in Europe), however, at the more sedate speeds here in the U.S.A., the OLM didn't recommend the second oil change until nearly 19,000 miles.
The above said, no manufacturer is obligated extend their recommended OCIs just because someone opts to use synthetic oil, and most don't. In the odd instance where an engine which has had a strict diet of synthetic oil and extended OCIs fails within the warranty period, you will be faced with a contest of wills between the science of the situation and the legalistic writings in the manufacturers warranty. It's simply easier/cheaper to comply with the recommended OCI until the end of the warranty. At least that's what I recommend, what I practice is another matter. Personally I'm willing to take the risk and as such, I've habitually used synthetic oil and extended the OCIs on all of my cars (except my BMWs which already have a long OCI).
"Then you change the mileage to 10000 miles after the 4 years 48K mi warranty?"
Yes, that or longer depending upon the results from the UOAs.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The truth is for as much as folks have heard oil analysis should be done when so-called "extended" oci's are done, oil analysis should be done for conventional oil both normal and severe OCI's !!!!!! Barring that a good stop gap measure is that 10 dollar (OLM) oil live monitor that is starting to come with some cars. I am willing to bet that close to 99.999% of those using conventional oil do NOT get oil analysis done. There are a myraid of reasons for this of course, but one major one could be "economic".
I truly wish I had a dollar for every time someone said (low) 3,000 mile oil changes are "CHEAP INSURANCE" or some facsimile. Maybe I'd make $400,000,000 per year, like one (famous/in famous) oil company CEO.
While this was a factor in MY selection of a 2004 Honda Civic vs a 2004/2005 Toyota Corolla, again my guess is the OCI consideration for most folks is purely an after thought. I would go on further to say that of those seeing a 10,000 mile OCI for the 2004 Honda Civic, the majority do not believe it nor (where the rubber meets the road) actually do it. Keep in mind the 10,000 mile OCI is with CONVENTIONAL OIL (5w20 to be specific).
Another is the Chevrolet Corvette with up to 15,000 mile OCI's. The factory recommended and fill is 5w30 Mobil One.
Another is the VW Jetta TDI with 10,000 mile OCI's. The factory fill is a 5w40 synthetic (meets VW specifications 500.xxx)
My new car (2006 model) sees servere service usage with a lot of city stop and go driving, and sometimes only 3 to 5 miles from home to work each way daily. I'll stick to my 3K/3mo interval.
Nothing wrong about being old fashioned. To further the discussion, I can truly say the same about 15,000 mile OCI's and yes with vehicles up to 250,000 miles. I have been doing this (15,000 mile OCI's) for over 20 years. Current ones have 136,000 miles on the clock, and a 11 year old TLC (garage queen) with 73,000 miles).
I run the TDI (diesel with 82,000 miles) with 5w40 Mobil One Truck and SUV (aka Delvac One) with 25,000 OCI's and am very excited about the new ULSD fuel (AKA CLEANER) which will easily allow for 30,000 mile OCI's.
Cost is about $30 for the basic analysis and $40 if you want the TBN analysis.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Yes you could go a bit farther on either oil but better not to risk it with a car still in warranty.
Now if they came back with the Magnesson/Moss act that I had to go and prove the part failed because of too long an oil change interval but that does not happen that often.
Truly there are "sludge a matics"STILL (21 years later) on the market. The oem's who sell them, of course deny they are. The best is to avoid them if at all possible. Next, if you happen to discover AFTER that a particular model is prone to "sludging" during the warranty period, it is up to the buyer/owner to effect monitoring procedures up to and including partial tear down. OEM's of course are perfectly fine if you discover sludging AFTER the warranty period. By that time, it is usually on the owner's/buyer's nickel.
Some models of Toyota's (among others oem's) have been well documented as having a statistical portion of complaints. Some engine warranty claims (documented on some threads on Edmunds.com) have even been denied early in both the warranty period and mileage with the DEALER performing the 3,000 mile OCI's!!!!