I can see why you are laughing, the top of the site you posted is an endless loop. The other is the standard anti trust Magnessen Act information. Another good reason not to buy. Sort of like nailing one foot to the floor and going round and round and round and calling that ...forward progess....
actually you posted this before but:
..."5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed. "...
So what part of MUST or completely followed don't YOU understand?
..."AMSOIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REJECT A WARRANTY CLAIM FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS: 1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants. 2. AMSOIL INC. was not notified within 30 days from the date of failure. 3. Claim information is insufficient. 4. Parts inspected do not substantiate a claim or indicate failure. 5. Parts requested were not sent or are unavailable for inspection. 6. Oil sample was not provided. 7. Failure of the customer to follow the written procedure herein. 8. Customer refused to cooperate with the investigation. 9. Failure was the result of an OEM defect. This warranty shall be governed, interpreted and construed by, and in accordance with, the laws of the State of Wisconsin."...
So does item 7 of YOUR post of ONE of AMSOIL's general warranty recitations, ring a bell? Make a difference, effect/affect anything?
YOU of course did not address and/or did not answer and/or BOTH the specific product warranty/s at all.
And to think all I wanted to know (as a paying customer) what if I asked for 3 quarts of product under warranty, (shown to go below 6 TBN remaining at 12,500 miles) would I get it? (and shipping and the cost of oil analysis, and the cost of compliance with warranty terms) SIMPLETON consumers!!!
Might be a good reason to NOT buy!? According to the warranty recitations, the cost of getting warranty fulfillment far exceeds, in most cases, the cost of the specific AMSOIL product. And we haven't even dealt with the specific Amsoil product.
But yes, YOU really can't stand to lose. But really not of too much concern. It is the misrepresentation that is disingenuous. But truly thanks for the heads up. I can see why some MLM orgs have the reputation that they do.
"The 0w-40 Mobil 1 does not meet the the latest VW spec, 505.01."
Ummm, you do know that the 505.01 standard is for Diesel powered vehicles, don't you? FWIW, as I understand it, Mobil 1 0W-40 is currently in the process of being certified for both new VW standards, 505.01 and 507.00, and as soon as the certification is granted, Mobil will put it on the bottle.
That said, Amsoil 5W-40 isn't certified to meet any VW standards, not one.
I've asked this before, please, get yourself educated, the bilge that you are spouting around here is simply noise. Since it seems that you cannot be bothered to lower yourself to the point of actually doing some research, maybe we are going to have to coin a new term for you, "Amsoil Troll".
Let's try to keep the debate out of the realm of the personal if we can, please. Sometimes just editing the word "you" out of your responses helps a lot.
..."as I understand it, Mobil 1 0W-40 is currently in the process of being certified for both new VW standards, 505.01 and 507.00, and as soon as the certification is granted, Mobil will put it on the bottle."...
That would rate a wow from me. Essentially the diesel VW 507.00 is a very tough specification. So at 4/5/6/ per quart we might compare that to ELF at 11.50 per liter shipping not included.
ELF rates THEIR VW 507.00 compliant specification products at 30,000 miles and that is with the extra benefit of 0w30. 0w30 vs 0w40 and 5w40 might be worth some extra mpg. How much is unknown, but for me I would swag I could possibly get .5 to 1 more. Elf is reported to give slightly better (or less) wear than either Mobil's 0w40 or 5w40. One might want to see some of those reports and compare and contrast and see if it is worth the extra cost for the performance.
Indeed on bobistheoilguy and tdiclub for my model year VW Jetta TDI, the 5w40 Mobil One T & S aka Delvac One 5w40 has had oil analysis good to go to 25,000 miles. With the advent and greater availablity of ULSD or 15 ppm or even less with bio diesel, going to 30,000 miles is almost a glide path type of thing. This is with NOT meeting the new specification. So again it is a question of doing the math.
I've more than heard enough about AM Soil to realize they don't intend to warranty anything that will will be successfully collected on by the customer. It's like Amway, Pampered Chef, Stanley, etc., and it's MLM with all the cheerleaders out there.
Try searching for information about AM Soil on the web and all you get are the individual websites for those pandering the product. You can't even successfully find people who have posted about problems. If anyone finds links, please post them for me, but the noise from the cheerleading section covers up other info about AM Soil.
If I decided to use synthetic in one car for a spring-summer-fall run, I'll change at 10K mi and probably change filters before that and I'll buy a nationally known product from a a nationally recognized company--not from individuals selling the product as a sideline along with their Longeberger Baskets...
I'm tired of reading the AM Soil push on the group here. I now fully understand why there's a thread with No Zaino Posts clearly in the title.
I think part of what simulates the continued controversy is the wide OCI variance, i.e., between 500 to 1000 for "new" cars (because of the myth of the union contract direction of putting metal shavings in new engines, ), 3,000, 5,000,7,500 10,000, 12,000 15,000, etc. With the advent of the VW 507 standard 30,000 miles.
I think truly Honda/Ford has set the bar very high with 10,000 mile OCI's with 5w20 Honda/Ford specification oil(Ford specs being more stringent) and every other oil change (20,000) for filter change.
How come this guy won't answer the direct questions asked of him instead of just saying "HA HA HA HA HA"! For newbies like me with synthetic oil questions, I just want to hear the honest answers. Why can't you explain it to me like I was a kid in high school...plain & simple truthful answers. I was brought up to not trust people who can't give truthful answers honestly. So please Idcope, just answer the simple questions!!!
"I have looked, there isn't any. Maybe you should look. "
Did you look in automotive section?
You cannot find it in grocery section where canola oil is.
Krzys
PS 3 Walmarts near me carry Mobil 1 0W40. Autozone has both Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Syntec 0W30 with "Made in Germany" and without "For sale in Americas only".
Can you answer Ruking1's simple questions? So far, you haven't except using so much doublespeak that it has me utterly confused. And please don't post that long Amsoil monolgue...just break down the answers to his questions very simply. Don't give us a robotic long winded answer...just wing it!
"I have looked, there isn't any. Maybe you should look. "
Did you look in automotive section?
You cannot find it in grocery section where canola oil is.
Krzys
PS 3 Walmarts near me carry Mobil 1 0W40. Autozone has both Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Syntec 0W30 with "Made in Germany" and without "For sale in Americas only".
I can see why you are laughing, the top of the site you posted is an endless loop. The other is the standard anti trust Magnessen Act information. Another good reason not to buy. Sort of like nailing one foot to the floor and going round and round and round and calling that ...forward progess....
actually you posted this before but:
..."5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed. "...
So what part of MUST or completely followed don't YOU understand?
Are we talking about websites, warranties or are we talking about ruking has to win?
All warranties have a procedure to follow even your hero's Mobil 1.
..."ruking and others are just trying to run me off, but this is too much fun. "...
Totally mistaken. but for sure someone is having an incredibly hard time answering directly. The questions have nothing to do with the queens english. It is the steadfast refusal to convey information. But everyone know that, except maybe for the one that is supposed to answer the questions.
"Mile 14,000 -- Dick Brewster, December 2, 2004. Oil/Vehicle miles: 13,994 / 44,970 Oil added after sample: none
..."This is it. Amsoil is done! The oil exceeded a year in service, with 14,000 miles on the ticker, and no filter change! Well, if the year hadn't ended, we would have had to change the filter now -- it finally reached our insolubles cap, 2,000 miles after Mobil 1. The main thing that stands out on this, our final Amsoil sample, is the ridiculous viscosity. This 5W30 oil has now thickened out to a 15W40 -- argue whether it matters if you like, but we believe engine builders spec an oil for a reason, and this oil is far, far thicker now than intended for the LS1. Switching to our flush Mobil 1 netted a nearly instant 10% improvement in fuel economy, and the engine runs a heckuva lot smoother too. To Amsoil's credit, wear metals remain in check, but we will soon see whether that was really thanks to the oil or just to engine break-in...."
Mobil One
..."Mile 18,000 -- John Richardson, September 29, 2003. Oil/Vehicle miles: 18,021 / 27,960 Oil added after sample: drained oil!
Well, it's done. At long last, we drained the oil. Considering that we've gone two and a half times longer than we thought we'd go, we're pretty impressed by Mobil 1's longevity. Our Dexsil TBN test resulted in a 6.0, comparing favorably to Blackstone's 6.5. But speaking of high TBNs, what happened to this oil? If it had posted these numbers at the last interval, we wouldn't have dumped it. This oil could have kept going based on the numbers we have now, but they sure weren't looking this good a thousand miles ago. Viscosity was dropping, TBN rising, and what's going on with the insolubles? Meanwhile, despite all these paper improvements, the engine still had higher oil pressure and wasn't running as smoothly as normal, so clearly not all was perfect with the oil."...
..."Mile 14,000 -- "Joee12", July 16, 2003. Oil/Vehicle miles: 13,976 / 23,915 Oil added after sample: 1/2 quart
We came in a little early on this one, but it was either that or come in a couple hundred miles late. We're putting an unusually high amount of highway miles on the car right now, which will accelerate the pace of this and the next sample. The oil still looks decent to our eyes, with wear metals continuing to increase but not at an alarming rate. Viscosity is finally thickening up but it's still a ways off from being out of grade. The difference in readings between the two TBN methods is troubling -- by the old method, it has really tanked; by the new method, it's steady. We keep expecting this oil to expire, but it keeps surprising us."...
So really the questioned I asked about Amsoil TBN and oil replacement at 12,500 miles (for the test between 12,000-13,000 miles is a practical as well as logical one, especially if the POSTER (or Amsoil for that matter) is claiming Amsoil is making claims about GUARANTEED 25,000 miles. If the oil is chemically pooped at 14,000 miles, there is really not much point in risking damage no matter WHAT the poster is claiming Amsoil is claiming in pressing a (in my opinion) losing point. It makes even less sense if there is a lengthy adjudication period, which realistically COULD result in NO compensation due to damage or lack of replacement of Amsoil oil shown by oil analysis to be pooped out at 14,000 when guaranteed for 25,000 miles. Or even Amsoil rejecting the claim due to the items it says very clearly, it can reject the claim for.
So to me, in the context of the study, the study administrators should have asked Amsoil for the 6.5 quarts as a replacement (LS1 oil requirement) due to a TBN of 1.9 at 12k- 13k. That would indeed validate the Amsoil guaranteed 25,000 miles. It might be instructive, they did NOT!!
In the context of the study, indeed Amsoil could argue (and rightfully I might add) something like this. If one did an oil analysis (independent) or even an UNAUTHORIZED one (didn't used the preferred vendors) Amsoil coulda woulda shoulda used and even with this indicator in mind, one busted the 30 day Amsoil (notification period). Further one knowingly and willfully continued to use an allegedly suspected chemically depleted product DENYING Amsoil the reasonable time and opportunity to investigate, process and adjudicate this specific conditions in this warranty matter. And these actions or lack there of, i.e., this fore knowledge and subsequent action/inaction was the cause of the resultant damage.
Disapproved.
Resubmit in 90 days, for final disapproval.
So barring a lengthy warranty process, which if they did follow would have compelled them (again this is my opinion) to document the warranty process results.
Again in the context of the study (underlying assumption is could these two oils go 15,000 miles, indeed they BOTH DID) The study administrator did the correct thing and R/R the Amsoil. They pronounced it DOA and happened to replace it with Mobil One!!??
The HOW of warranty fulfillment is being asked. If that is gobidy goop, per the study, how does one get 6.5 quarts to do an oil change? But that is more than abundantly clear. Any questions about the questions, just LQQK at the past posts. They are indeed littered with redundancy. If the issue needs to be dropped,(I'm all for it) no problem, no answer would suffice. The response/s has/have already spoken volumes. But if it the reply is: is so!!! Well, there is still multiple steadfast refusals to address the issues.
My take is has been pretty simple since the first refusal. What about NADA don't I understand?
I've been reviewing the various UOAs posted over at BITOG for quite some time now and I have NEVER seen even a single UOA showing any version of Amsoil successfully go 25,000 miles (i.e. without being long since worn out) in any gasoline engine. Could I have missed one or two? Certainly. That said, it is fairly safe to say that the most that can be expected out of the best version of Amsoil in most gasoline engines is 15,000 miles, and ONLY if the owner has a UOA or two running up to that point, just to make sure all is well.
Thinking about this whole Amsoil warranty thing, could a gasoline engined car go a full 100,000 miles with only Amsoil oil changes at 500, 25,000, 50,000 and 75,000 miles without suffering an engine failure? Probably, however, my bet is that that engine would be in pretty rough shape by then. So, the question here is, would the Amsoil warranty cover anything in this scenario given that engine hadn't failed, yet? Personally I doubt it.
I would concur with your first paragraph. Indeed the study I cited shows Amsoil to be chemically not much left (DEAD)at 14,000 miles, i.e. enough to have analysts at oil analysis labs recommending CHANGE. This is of course on a 25,000 mile Amsoill recommendation!!!!??? WOW!!!!
So if that is true, it is truly curious why warranty fulfillment is such a hidden or HIDDEN in plain sight corporate secret. To me, this SHOULD be as easy as calling up the person or entity you bought the Amsoil product from and say ship me or I will come by to pick up 6.5 quarts on warranty. It is also standard boiler plate to write to a central corp location (complaint department):
please put your complain in detail ONLY in the following square [] anything not in the [] will be disregarded.
IF...your dealer doesn't give you satisfaction. That should be the answer AND the end of it. Indeed that is all that particular dealer had to say. Go see him, DONE ALREADY.
The other way to read the warranty is they really do not care if Amsoil is chemically DEAD at 14,000 miles (TBN of 1.9/12.8). The only thing germane to the warranty FULFILLMENT issue: at 25,000 miles did the specific Amsoil product CAUSE PROVABLE damage to the equipment!!! NOT was an Amsoil product used when the failure occurred. NOT LIKELY! The issue would have to be proved to be specifically caused by an AMSOIL product. As we said, one of the bedrock assumptions is engine failure due to lubrication is remote to NON existent, even Amsoil acknowledges that. This is true whether Amsoil or OTHER products are used.
The second paragraph 25,000 to 100,000 miles before oil change is done ALL the time on the tractor trailer rig side!!!! Again this is not high tech at all, but ratio mathematics. The sumps are absolutely HUGE!!!!! Smaller sumps, faster depletion, less miles between OCI's.
Let me use the Honda Civic as an example, with the 10,000 mile OCI with conventional oil. I already mentioned I am using 20,000 miles OCIs(synthetic) . Upshot a TBN of 7 (conventional vs 11.8-12 synthetic.
So how do I double the 10,000 mile (to 20,000 miles) using conventional oil?
SIMPLE ! DOUBLE the sump capacity from 2.4 quarts to 4.8 quarts. Good to go to 20,000 miles !!
Want 40,000 miles? In addition to doubling the sump capacity, use 4.8 quarts of Mobil One 0w20 synthetic (TBN of 12).
"The second paragraph 25,000 to 100,000 miles before oil change is done ALL the time on the tractor trailer rig side!!!! Again this is not high tech at all, but ratio mathematics. The sumps are absolutely HUGE!!!!! Smaller sumps, faster depletion, less miles between OCI's."
Agreed. That's why I qualified my comments by saying "...could a gasoline engined car go a full 100,000 miles..." Diesel trucks have two significant advantages over a gasoline car, 1) a huge sump (as you mentioned), and 2) Diesel engines are not as hard on oil as are gasoline engines.
Regarding the Civic engine, I had that particular engine in mind when I qualified my other comment by saying "...the most that can be expected out of the best version of Amsoil in most gasoline engines is 15,000 miles...". In the end, our resident Amsoil peddler's preaching not withstanding, I think you and I are saying the same thing, Amsoil's 25,000 mile warranty ain't worth spit for most gasoline engines on the road today. :P
And I would also agree!!! And I think you nailed it!
Strictly as a sidebar: diesel oils are formulated with SOOT suppression in mind (additives). (which is usually not an issue with gassers. (this I know is sensical to you, and me, but maybe not so to others reading this thread)
There might also be something else going on. It is more than apparent, confirmed by testing, that at 12,500 to 14,000 miles the TBN in Amsoil is indeed depleted with little to no safety reserve remaining!!! This is fact as cited in the study and repeated over and over and over again at places like bobistheoilguy etc.
What if the Amsoil was so called "designed" to run with that in mind? After all it is YOUR equipment that is wearing faster than it has to during the second 12,500 miles. It is YOUR equipment, not theirs. It is truly YOUR nickel not theirs and the warranty legalese is designed for it to REMAIN your nickel. Synthetic PAO IV oil is very tough and very very long lasting stuff. By itself, it can lubricate 25,000 miles and beyond. It is why I went to synthetic PAO IV oil in the first place. Of course one of the spin offs is there is little to no sludge formation. If you take the whole 25,000 mile cycle as an aggregate, the additives portion indeed protects and mitigates till app 12,500 miles and the last 12,500 for lack of a better description is the phase unprotected by additive reserves. So this is the unprotected portion or "by product accumulation" phase. So if you tally the two oil analysis (12,500 and at 25,000 miles and average them as an aggregate, the wear might be to within so called "Amsoil acceptable wear limits". The lack of additive protection phase will have to be proved to have triggered the lack of lubrication by the PAO IV portion. As you probably would agree it is remote to non existent.
Indeed this might be SCARY to me (actually is) and you, but perfectly acceptable to the majority of who they sell to and who believe the 25,000 miles so called guarantee. This so called "design" parameter is anathema to me and probably YOU and other folks who follow synthetic oil issues, as I want the wear to be as little as possible to go 300,000 miles on a gasser and 500,000 to 1,250,000 on the TDI. Indeed oil analysis on a cross section of TDI's shows synthetics such as, Mobil One 5w40 show both the PAO IV component AND more germane the additive components good to 25,000 miles and beyond, i.e. reserve TBN etc.
So this issue kind of reminds me of that old movie where WC Fields playing the snake oil salesman taking the cigar out of his mouth and says under his breath to folks like me and you; go away boy, yah bothering me!!
I believe I was one of the original posters that got this Mobil 1 vs. Amsoil pissing match started in the first place but it seems we've come full circle to my problem. I have a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder that I used Mobil 1 in with 3 month/3750 mile intervals... I know... shut up. Anyway, two years ago I learned of extended drain intervals and decided to use Amsoil. I switched to Amsoil Synthetic in the engine, Amsoil Synthetic ATF in the transmission and transer case, and Amsoil Synthetic Gear Lube in both differentials. I have followed the annual oil change recommendation of Amsoil, and this last time when I dropped the oil I sent an analysis to Blackstone Labs. I don't have the report with me right now, but I seem to remember the gist of their analysis was that this oil was trashed & should have been changed long ago. They found high levels of wear metals and insolubles, the viscosity was so high that it was out of range, and the TBN was 0. This was after 1 year & approximately 15,000 miles. I apologize I don't have the exact numbers with me right now but the specifics were posted way back in this forum. Needless to say, I was very dissapointed with this report. I baby my vehicles and have become concerned what damage I may have caused to the engine. I couldn't understand what was wrong with my vehicle that it didn't live up to Amsoil's claims. It had to be my vehicle because surely Amsoil wouldn't make claims that were just not possible to achieve. I began researching other UOA's on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forums and started to notice a trend. The vast majority of UOA's coming back from year-old Amsoil Synthetic had similar results... high viscosity, high wear metals, low or no TBN, and high solubles. If only I had found those forums before I switched to Amsoil in the first place. IDCOPE, you mentioned that customer experience is more important to you. Well here is an Amsoil customer that is mad as hell and you don't have to look far to find others just like me. Amsoil's drain interval recommendations are crap and they have to know it. But what stops them from making these claims? Try and prove that engine damage that doesn't reveal itself until tens or even hundreds of thousands of miles was caused by their ridiculous intervals. Unfortunately I refilled with Amsoil when I sent this sample off because I obviously didn't have the results yet. I will be switching back to Mobil 1. Don't get me wrong, I believe Amsoil is a very good oil. But I have lost confidence in the company, their recommendations, and warranty. There is no reason to remain with Amsoil when there are as good or better oils that don't make ridiculous claims. So, here are some questions for everybody. How long do I go this time with the Amsoil (before I change back to Mobil 1)? What oil & air filters do you guys like? Any tests or comparisons? I'm not only looking for efficiency but capacity also, as I would like to continue with extended drain intervals and don't want the oil filter capacity to be the limiting factor. And what kind of intervals do I go with on the other fluids that are in there? Amsoil recommends 50,000 miles severe/100,000 miles normal for the transmission and differentials. And finally is it reasonable to try one year oil changes with Mobil 1 (not the extended oil)?
For anyone willing to use a highest quality oil and change it more often than necessary, you ask what to do with the current AM Soil after putting it back in? I'd do 5000 at most and go back to Mobile 1.
You need to apply for replacement oil from AM Soil under their warranty also. It certainly didn't live up to their claims.
As for myself, who doesn't use synthetics but has considered it for longer change during spring-autumn months, I'd take out the other oils as well. I change the AM Soil out of the motor early because of the "Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me" policy I adopted about 25 years ago because of workplace politics.
The 3 month/3750 mile interval back when I was using Mobil 1 was ridiculous. I blame Jiffy Lube propaganda!!! Actually back then a lot of manufacturers were still recommending the 3 month/3000 miles intervals that were too short even for dino oil. As far as applying for replacement oil under Amsoil's warranty, I really have no need for it. I'm not planning on using it again so why go through all the hassle. I guess I could fry next Thanksgiving's turkey in it.
I have been using Purolator plus oil filters, standards, and Exxon oil in my 3800s and 3000 miles was about average. This summer I used a Pure One filter because I thought when I used one before the oil stayed clear longer. It did. I ran up close to 5000 with lots of highway trips to St. Louis> Ypsilanti, Indianapolis, etc., to let the oil flow through the finer media and filter.
This winter I'll change by 3000 or earlier with short, cold start trips without the time to purge contaminants. I'll use the standard filter in the older car and see what the finer filtration Pure One does in the new car. If the newer car gets longer runs to Cincy regularly to clear the oil I won't change at 2500.
I'm beginning to think a good filter is the key, whether I use regular oil or synthetic. I used to use Fram and GM filters along with Quaker State- whatever was on sale. Then I read Bobistheoilguy. But it's Purolator for me with maybe a filter change on the standard filters to extend the oil life; but the newer car gets PureOnes even if they're not on sale.
When I use synthetic oil, 7,500 miles is my "nervous limit" for gas engines and 5,000 miles for diesels. These are about relatively new cars so I feel I have something to protect here. On my old Benz diesel I wouldn't care so much.
Probably oil analysis would change my thinking but I haven't done that.
Right! And I think (in view of the Amsoil break down) that is how the market normally performs.
So for example given your LONG auto experiences, plus the fact you host this thread. I would swag a guess you are in a unique position.
In so far as your OCI's of 7,500, according to qwiky lube INDUSTRY surveys, you are "ON the EDGE" as most folks are at 5,000 miles. So for the diesel portion you are "average".
So I do 15,000 mile OCI's (have for over 800,000 miles). The local Toyota dealer takes my current Landcruisers apart to check at 60,120,140k miles for a ( couple of hundred dollar) valve adjustment jobs. To date all they have checked, do not need it. Comments have ranged from cleanest they have ever seen, to unbelieveable, to still see the original oem tool markings. My service advisor almost gags when I sometimes hand him/her a FRAM oil filter when they change the Mobil One 5w30.
As for oil analysis, the market basically indicates that folks who actually do oil analysis is an "EXTREME MINORITY" position, ie 1% or less. (If anyone has any indicators that this is not true, then I would gladly stand corrected) YET in terms of objective measures and information, it is the REAL DEAL. Problem of course folks look at the 20-45 dollar cost and say changing the oil earlier is cheaper!!!
IDCOPE, you mentioned that customer experience is more important to you....
I believe that customer experience is very important, not more important than everything. I don't recall saying that and can't find it in my posts, but I'm sure that someone can if I did.
Customer experience vary, but a very high percentage of my customers have very good results, sometimes unbelievable results.
On the subject of your oil tests, some of your negative results my not be the fault of the oil. Some of the tests indicate the condition of the engine or the efficiency of the oil filter. Some oil filters separate internally when the resin holding the media all together gives up.
AMSOIL is very helpful and wants their customers to be satisfied, I realize that it's too late to help you but when I have a problem with a product I contact the company for resolution.
Personally I can recite problems with Mobil 1 from my own experiences and those of motorists and racers that I come in contact with.
Subject of all the test results on Bob's? Who knows who these people are and what there agenda is, do they work for Mobil 1? Are they promoting a testing facility? I don't know and nether do you.
I like testing that is by independent professionals doing testing that is specified by SAE and protocalled by ASTM. And I like customer experience (that's people I know) it gives credence that I can believe and pass on to other customers. This is how business works and since AMSOIL doesn't spend trillions on advertising customer referrals are important.
I realize that this is a "gotcha AMSOIL" site, but that's OK I think in the end all the rambling shows that the ALLEGED experts here is still trying to figure it all out.
When AMSOIL applied for a trademark on the term "The First in Synthetics" the trademark commission send a letter asking for comment to the motor oil producers in the US indicating "The First in Synthetics" also imply that AMSOIL is the first in performance. Their were no replys.
AMSOIL has been testing motor oils for over twenty years and publishing the results using 7 ASTM tests, AMSOIL is first in 6 out of 7 tests. There has never been a challenge by a motor oil producer. The significance of this? AMSOIL was originally called AMZOIL, immediately Pennzoil file a legal challenge. When Castrol switched from PAO base stocks to recracked petrol several years ago, Mobil 1 challenge the use of the term "100% Synthetic". Knowing these facts logic would indicate that if the ASTM testing were in anyway fraudulent a legal event would have occurred years ago.
On the back of AMSOIL Series 2000, 0w-30 the four ball wear test is emblazoned. And we realize that the internal parts of a street engine would never see those kind of pressures the four ball test is a likely indicator of wear prevention. These tests can be viewed at
Another fact of the matter is the FCC, the have made several additive producers stop advertising falsely and have levied fine in some cases, AMSOIL. has never had this problem.
Some of the other AMSOIL negatives I have seen scanning the posts are:
double freight charges: ther is only one freight charge.
Lack of availablity:
AMSOIL has 11 warehouses stratigeally located around the US for effecient UPS delivery, in many locations if you order before noon your products are on your doorstep the next day. Can't find a dealer? www.amsoil.com has a dealer locator on the home page. You can also order on line, you can call tool free 800-956-5695. It usually takes lees than two minutes to place and order which is about 43 minute less than a trip to Wally World for me.
Someone said that AMSOIL dealers must make allot of money because they are so enthusiastic: all of them don't make allot, some do. But we are passionate abut it because of the incredible results we get using the product, it's kind of like the teenager discovering something that his Dad doesn't know and it is allot of fun.
On the subject of the 5w-40 Euro oil and for you "GOTCHA guys" AMSOIL is presently the only north American producer of the latest euro spec. oil, you will have to do your own research.
Will welome valid responses and questions, not to gotcha's.
Again grossly mistaken! This is hardly a "gotcha" Amsoil thread. Indeed if you care to look, I have posted in past posts that oils, such as: Amsoil,Redline, Neo, ELF, etc. are good products. How you get "gotcha" Amoil out of that is really beyond me.
On the post about the synthetic oil shoot out Amsoil and Mobil One, the original assumption was a target of 15,000 miles and Amsoil went 14,000 miles, Mobil went 18,000. The samples were tested and analyzed by an independent lab. Oil analysis indicated Amsoil is in fact good to go to app 14,000 and in fact said so.
So if you are saying YOU ONLY like independent labs who give Amsoil stellar marks, to the exclusion of all others, well....I don't know that that means to you, but cooking the books comes to my mind. I say let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps you didn't like where the chips fell?
If I were Smokey75, I'd be looking for more than luck. Again I'd look for HOW to get the replacement quarts of product?? (in light of the 25,000 mile guarantee and almost total depletion of the additive formulation at 12,500 for example).
Evidently he is having the same problem from the Amsoil vendor he bought his from. So the next step according to the procedure is to communicate with Amoil customer service. As a potential customer, I can only assume this is (SOP) standard operating procedure. As a potential customer I also scratch my head and ask why would I want that kind of hassle on top of paying more for the product? Indeed one normally wants to give reasons for going to them. So far, I have gotten too many reasons NOT to!!???
If the product is so much better than Mobile 1, e.g., then the company would be finding ways to market it around their local multilevel marketing people, i.e., it would be on the store shelves at Walmart.
The big talk about warranty and extreme usage scares me away. The talk that no oil company has challenged them ontheir claims doesn't faze me; maybe Mobile thinks they're not work bothering with-a challenge would only be free advertising in the vein of "We're being picked on. We must be better."
Perhaps you need to be in retail a lot longer than you have been. Some of your toughest (in your mind, critics) indeed can be some of your best customers. If you do not understand this on some level, you are not destined to be long in business.
I am merely asking how to get warranty fulfillment. This is really a very low level logistical question. Simple question, should be simple answer. In effect the translation is: I am telling you why I would use Amsoil, You make a promise, you keep it. You make a promise and it doesn't fulfill: make it good (warranty fulfillment).
All the best!
So say Smokey75's Vendor or Amsoil complaint department for that matter just gave him the replacement oil. So someone says to him, well it is only good to go to 14,000 miles. Confirmed by MANY oil analysis'.
What do you think his response would be? Well results vary, but no matter, they make good with replacement product, so you can go to 25,000 miles.
I would agree. Challenging Amsoil when they are probably less than 1% of the market, while Mobil One is like 40-45% would give em FREE advertising, which of course Amsoil would use against them.
I worry about damage being done that I don't know about beforehand, obviously, and like the person doing the oil analysis I find I've been running rubbish for 13000 miles just because AM Soil tries to justify their high price for MLM...
Like grandma used to say, I'm too poor to buy cheap stuff.
I'll buy the Mobile or Castol and try it this summer. Otherwise in Ohio cold short drives, I want to flush out the contaminants and condensates. If I were in the southern states where it's going to be 50 and above for most trips, I would think different and try the improved oil now.
Smokey - My oil change intervals will be looked upon as overkill, but I've never experienced a mechanical engine failure. I use Mobil 1 5W-30, change every 3K/3mo, and use Purolator PureOne oil filters. A test by a German car mag a couple of years ago pegged the PureOne filter as an excellent filter (#1 rated), so that's what I've used since that time. I used to use German-made Mann filters, which are also very good, but the PureOne's test results were superior.
All of our cars are used under "severe service" conditions, and I would rather be safe than sorry. I do all of my own maintenance, including oil changes, and recycle the oil at Advance Auto Parts free-of-charge.
I don't believe in extended oil change intervals regardless of the formulation of the oil. I may be wasting money and time, but it's my money and time to waste.
"Customer experience and ASTM testing data trumps your kindergarden wishy washy posts anytime." That's the line I was referring to IDCOPE.
You say a very high percentage of your customers have very good results even unbelievable results. What results? Does this majority of your customers say things like "My car ran so much better on Amsoil" or other feel good things. Are you speaking of oil analysis? Because I'd be willing to bet most of your customers don't use oil analysis, as most people don't. So therefore, what are their good results... sorry, even unbelievable results? Their engine didn't blow up while they were using Amsoil?
As for the crappy results not being a result of the oil... my engine is in sound mechanical order, as Amsoil calls for before using their intervals. At least it was before using Amsoil for 2 years with one year intervals. Who knows what kind condition it's in now. And I'm sure Amsoil will warranty my engine when if it craps out years from now as a result. Good luck proving that one. But which tests show poor condition of the engine, as you said? And the filter was Amsoil, so if it seperated or didn't live up to its' efficiency claims I guess we can add their filters to the list of hype.
As for the BITOG forums, you're right I don't know if everybody who had a bad experience with Amsoil actually works for Mobil... but if I were a betting man. I don't think they're promoting a test facility either because there are tests from multiple companies. Many people post the PDF file of the actual test results. And what about the test that was posted on here with the Camaro using Mobil 1 & Amsoil. They had very similar results with Amsoil.
As for Amsoil's test being independent.... Just because it's an "independent" company that did the tests doesn't mean it's actually independent. The firm that did the testing was likely paid by Amsoil. I'm sure they don't work for free. The fact that money was exchanged makes my BS meter start to tingle.
I don't know what double freight meant but you do pay freight... which further raises the cost of an already expensive oil. And having 11 warehouses & using UPS doesn't make it "available." What do I do when I'm on vacation & realize I'm a quart low? Order a quart to my hotel?
IDCOPE, you keep talking about these great results people have with Amsoil. What about you? I'm assuming you use Amsoil, ever done an oil analysis after a year? Despite what you claim, this is not a "GOTCHA" forum. But there are legitimate problems with the life of Amsoil compared to what they claim and this can't be denied. I'm not trying to put you down or anything. I just have a feeling your opinions of Amsoil are based on the same flawed information that led me to Amsoil also. Thousands of customer testimonials that really don't say anything when you dig into them and ASTM testing that really doesn't show definitively which oil is better. Get an oil analysis!!!! You may be surprised by the results. What do you have to lose?
If I were Smokey75, I'd be looking for more than luck. Again I'd look for HOW to get the replacement quarts of product?? (in light of the 25,000 mile guarantee and almost total depletion of the additive formulation at 12,500 for example).
Problem is I don't want replacement quarts. I'm done... no more Amsoil. And don't forget, it's not just a 25,000 mile guarantee. It's 1 year or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first. I always thought that was a marketing tool anyway, even when I did like Amsoil. They're banking on the fact the hardly anyone will drive 25,000 miles in a year. At least Mobil 1 extended only claims 15,000 miles or 1 year.
Actually given your past experiences and this thread discussion with a self proclaimed Amsoil vendor, I truly do not blame you. If you don't mind me asking, did you in fact ask YOUR Amsoil vendor what the remedies are/were if you indeed did decide to pursue them or stay with Amsoil?
On one of the vehicles I put only app 5k per year, so to get to 15,000 miles on that one, the OCI not done for app 3 years. Again the valve covers were torn off and valves checked and did NOT need adjusting at the 65k mile mark (was supposed to be 60k) The mechanic also remarked this was one of the cleanest (innards) that he'd worked on. And again at the 10 year and app 77k mark passed its smog only test with flying colors.
Oic 3750 w/ Mobil 1. Coolant and atf change every 25,000. Be sure to use mfg recommended atf. My driving is severe per the honda manual. I think anyone using extended oic is being penny rich and pound foolish. Hope this helps.
Comments
actually you posted this before but:
..."5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed. "...
So what part of MUST or completely followed don't YOU understand?
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
2. AMSOIL INC. was not notified within 30 days from the date of failure.
3. Claim information is insufficient.
4. Parts inspected do not substantiate a claim or indicate failure.
5. Parts requested were not sent or are unavailable for inspection.
6. Oil sample was not provided.
7. Failure of the customer to follow the written procedure herein.
8. Customer refused to cooperate with the investigation.
9. Failure was the result of an OEM defect.
This warranty shall be governed, interpreted and construed by, and in accordance with, the laws of the State of Wisconsin."...
So does item 7 of YOUR post of ONE of AMSOIL's general warranty recitations, ring a bell? Make a difference, effect/affect anything?
YOU of course did not address and/or did not answer and/or BOTH the specific product warranty/s at all.
And to think all I wanted to know (as a paying customer) what if I asked for 3 quarts of product under warranty, (shown to go below 6 TBN remaining at 12,500 miles) would I get it? (and shipping and the cost of oil analysis, and the cost of compliance with warranty terms) SIMPLETON consumers!!!
Just can't stand to lose can you?
But yes, YOU really can't stand to lose. But really not of too much concern. It is the misrepresentation that is disingenuous. But truly thanks for the heads up. I can see why some MLM orgs have the reputation that they do.
Ummm, you do know that the 505.01 standard is for Diesel powered vehicles, don't you? FWIW, as I understand it, Mobil 1 0W-40 is currently in the process of being certified for both new VW standards, 505.01 and 507.00, and as soon as the certification is granted, Mobil will put it on the bottle.
That said, Amsoil 5W-40 isn't certified to meet any VW standards, not one.
I've asked this before, please, get yourself educated, the bilge that you are spouting around here is simply noise. Since it seems that you cannot be bothered to lower yourself to the point of actually doing some research, maybe we are going to have to coin a new term for you, "Amsoil Troll".
Best Regards,
Shipo
Shifty the Host
That would rate a wow from me. Essentially the diesel VW 507.00 is a very tough specification. So at 4/5/6/ per quart we might compare that to ELF at 11.50 per liter shipping not included.
ELF rates THEIR VW 507.00 compliant specification products at 30,000 miles and that is with the extra benefit of 0w30.
0w30 vs 0w40 and 5w40 might be worth some extra mpg. How much is unknown, but for me I would swag I could possibly get .5 to 1 more. Elf is reported to give slightly better (or less) wear than either Mobil's 0w40 or 5w40. One might want to see some of those reports and compare and contrast and see if it is worth the extra cost for the performance.
Indeed on bobistheoilguy and tdiclub for my model year VW Jetta TDI, the 5w40 Mobil One T & S aka Delvac One 5w40 has had oil analysis good to go to 25,000 miles. With the advent and greater availablity of ULSD or 15 ppm or even less with bio diesel, going to 30,000 miles is almost a glide path type of thing. This is with NOT meeting the new specification. So again it is a question of doing the math.
Try searching for information about AM Soil on the web and all you get are the individual websites for those pandering the product. You can't even successfully find people who have posted about problems. If anyone finds links, please post them for me, but the noise from the cheerleading section covers up other info about AM Soil.
If I decided to use synthetic in one car for a spring-summer-fall run, I'll change at 10K mi and probably change filters before that and I'll buy a nationally known product from a a nationally recognized company--not from individuals selling the product as a sideline along with their Longeberger Baskets...
I'm tired of reading the AM Soil push on the group here. I now fully understand why there's a thread with No Zaino Posts clearly in the title.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think part of what simulates the continued controversy is the wide OCI variance, i.e., between 500 to 1000 for "new" cars (because of the myth of the union contract direction of putting metal shavings in new engines,
I think truly Honda/Ford has set the bar very high with 10,000 mile OCI's with 5w20 Honda/Ford specification oil(Ford specs being more stringent) and every other oil change (20,000) for filter change.
Why can't you explain it to me like I was a kid in high school...plain & simple truthful answers. I was brought up to not trust people who can't give truthful answers honestly.
So please Idcope, just answer the simple questions!!!
The Sandman :confuse: :confuse:
Did you look in automotive section?
You cannot find it in grocery section where canola oil is.
Krzys
PS 3 Walmarts near me carry Mobil 1 0W40. Autozone has both Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Syntec 0W30 with "Made in Germany" and without "For sale in Americas only".
But thanks for playing...
The Sandman :confuse:
You asked me to answer a simple question, what is the simple question.
rukings questions have been answered if one can understand the queens english.
ruking and others are just trying to run me off, but this is too much fun.
Did you look in automotive section?
You cannot find it in grocery section where canola oil is.
Krzys
PS 3 Walmarts near me carry Mobil 1 0W40. Autozone has both Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Syntec 0W30 with "Made in Germany" and without "For sale in Americas only".
DUH, so that's where they keep the oil.
actually you posted this before but:
..."5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed. "...
So what part of MUST or completely followed don't YOU understand?
Are we talking about websites, warranties or are we talking about ruking has to win?
All warranties have a procedure to follow even your hero's Mobil 1.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Warranty.aspx
Totally mistaken. but for sure someone is having an incredibly hard time answering directly. The questions have nothing to do with the queens english. It is the steadfast refusal to convey information. But everyone know that, except maybe for the one that is supposed to answer the questions.
Below are interesting A/B tests 5w30 .
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/amsoil.html
"Mile 14,000 -- Dick Brewster, December 2, 2004.
Oil/Vehicle miles: 13,994 / 44,970
Oil added after sample: none
..."This is it. Amsoil is done! The oil exceeded a year in service, with 14,000 miles on the ticker, and no filter change! Well, if the year hadn't ended, we would have had to change the filter now -- it finally reached our insolubles cap, 2,000 miles after Mobil 1. The main thing that stands out on this, our final Amsoil sample, is the ridiculous viscosity. This 5W30 oil has now thickened out to a 15W40 -- argue whether it matters if you like, but we believe engine builders spec an oil for a reason, and this oil is far, far thicker now than intended for the LS1. Switching to our flush Mobil 1 netted a nearly instant 10% improvement in fuel economy, and the engine runs a heckuva lot smoother too. To Amsoil's credit, wear metals remain in check, but we will soon see whether that was really thanks to the oil or just to engine break-in...."
Mobil One
..."Mile 18,000 -- John Richardson, September 29, 2003.
Oil/Vehicle miles: 18,021 / 27,960
Oil added after sample: drained oil!
Well, it's done. At long last, we drained the oil. Considering that we've gone two and a half times longer than we thought we'd go, we're pretty impressed by Mobil 1's longevity. Our Dexsil TBN test resulted in a 6.0, comparing favorably to Blackstone's 6.5. But speaking of high TBNs, what happened to this oil? If it had posted these numbers at the last interval, we wouldn't have dumped it. This oil could have kept going based on the numbers we have now, but they sure weren't looking this good a thousand miles ago. Viscosity was dropping, TBN rising, and what's going on with the insolubles? Meanwhile, despite all these paper improvements, the engine still had higher oil pressure and wasn't running as smoothly as normal, so clearly not all was perfect with the oil."...
..."Mile 14,000 -- "Joee12", July 16, 2003.
Oil/Vehicle miles: 13,976 / 23,915
Oil added after sample: 1/2 quart
We came in a little early on this one, but it was either that or come in a couple hundred miles late. We're putting an unusually high amount of highway miles on the car right now, which will accelerate the pace of this and the next sample. The oil still looks decent to our eyes, with wear metals continuing to increase but not at an alarming rate. Viscosity is finally thickening up but it's still a ways off from being out of grade. The difference in readings between the two TBN methods is troubling -- by the old method, it has really tanked; by the new method, it's steady. We keep expecting this oil to expire, but it keeps surprising us."...
So really the questioned I asked about Amsoil TBN and oil replacement at 12,500 miles (for the test between 12,000-13,000 miles is a practical as well as logical one, especially if the POSTER (or Amsoil for that matter) is claiming Amsoil is making claims about GUARANTEED 25,000 miles. If the oil is chemically pooped at 14,000 miles, there is really not much point in risking damage no matter WHAT the poster is claiming Amsoil is claiming in pressing a (in my opinion) losing point. It makes even less sense if there is a lengthy adjudication period, which realistically COULD result in NO compensation due to damage or lack of replacement of Amsoil oil shown by oil analysis to be pooped out at 14,000 when guaranteed for 25,000 miles. Or even Amsoil rejecting the claim due to the items it says very clearly, it can reject the claim for.
So to me, in the context of the study, the study administrators should have asked Amsoil for the 6.5 quarts as a replacement (LS1 oil requirement) due to a TBN of 1.9 at 12k- 13k. That would indeed validate the Amsoil guaranteed 25,000 miles. It might be instructive, they did NOT!!
Disapproved.
Resubmit in 90 days, for final disapproval.
So barring a lengthy warranty process, which if they did follow would have compelled them (again this is my opinion) to document the warranty process results.
Again in the context of the study (underlying assumption is could these two oils go 15,000 miles, indeed they BOTH DID) The study administrator did the correct thing and R/R the Amsoil. They pronounced it DOA and happened to replace it with Mobil One!!??
Since AMSOIl is warranted for 25,000 miles or one year then that would mean that they would replace the oil and any engine parts that were damaged,
THAT IS WHAT A WARRANTY IS FOR.
The quote is a serious revelation?
The HOW of warranty fulfillment is being asked. If that is gobidy goop, per the study, how does one get 6.5 quarts to do an oil change? But that is more than abundantly clear. Any questions about the questions, just LQQK at the past posts. They are indeed littered with redundancy. If the issue needs to be dropped,(I'm all for it) no problem, no answer would suffice. The response/s has/have already spoken volumes. But if it the reply is: is so!!! Well, there is still multiple steadfast refusals to address the issues.
My take is has been pretty simple since the first refusal. What about NADA don't I understand?
Thinking about this whole Amsoil warranty thing, could a gasoline engined car go a full 100,000 miles with only Amsoil oil changes at 500, 25,000, 50,000 and 75,000 miles without suffering an engine failure? Probably, however, my bet is that that engine would be in pretty rough shape by then. So, the question here is, would the Amsoil warranty cover anything in this scenario given that engine hadn't failed, yet? Personally I doubt it.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I would concur with your first paragraph. Indeed the study I cited shows Amsoil to be chemically not much left (DEAD)at 14,000 miles, i.e. enough to have analysts at oil analysis labs recommending CHANGE. This is of course on a 25,000 mile Amsoill recommendation!!!!??? WOW!!!!
So if that is true, it is truly curious why warranty fulfillment is such a hidden or HIDDEN in plain sight corporate secret. To me, this SHOULD be as easy as calling up the person or entity you bought the Amsoil product from and say ship me or I will come by to pick up 6.5 quarts on warranty. It is also standard boiler plate to write to a central corp location (complaint department):
please put your complain in detail ONLY in the following square [] anything not in the [] will be disregarded.
IF...your dealer doesn't give you satisfaction. That should be the answer AND the end of it. Indeed that is all that particular dealer had to say. Go see him, DONE ALREADY.
The other way to read the warranty is they really do not care if Amsoil is chemically DEAD at 14,000 miles (TBN of 1.9/12.8). The only thing germane to the warranty FULFILLMENT issue: at 25,000 miles did the specific Amsoil product CAUSE PROVABLE damage to the equipment!!! NOT was an Amsoil product used when the failure occurred. NOT LIKELY! The issue would have to be proved to be specifically caused by an AMSOIL product. As we said, one of the bedrock assumptions is engine failure due to lubrication is remote to NON existent, even Amsoil acknowledges that. This is true whether Amsoil or OTHER products are used.
The second paragraph 25,000 to 100,000 miles before oil change is done ALL the time on the tractor trailer rig side!!!! Again this is not high tech at all, but ratio mathematics. The sumps are absolutely HUGE!!!!! Smaller sumps, faster depletion, less miles between OCI's.
Let me use the Honda Civic as an example, with the 10,000 mile OCI with conventional oil. I already mentioned I am using 20,000 miles OCIs(synthetic) . Upshot a TBN of 7 (conventional vs 11.8-12 synthetic.
So how do I double the 10,000 mile (to 20,000 miles) using conventional oil?
SIMPLE ! DOUBLE the sump capacity from 2.4 quarts to 4.8 quarts. Good to go to 20,000 miles !!
Want 40,000 miles? In addition to doubling the sump capacity, use 4.8 quarts of Mobil One 0w20 synthetic (TBN of 12).
Agreed. That's why I qualified my comments by saying "...could a gasoline engined car go a full 100,000 miles..." Diesel trucks have two significant advantages over a gasoline car, 1) a huge sump (as you mentioned), and 2) Diesel engines are not as hard on oil as are gasoline engines.
Regarding the Civic engine, I had that particular engine in mind when I qualified my other comment by saying "...the most that can be expected out of the best version of Amsoil in most gasoline engines is 15,000 miles...". In the end, our resident Amsoil peddler's preaching not withstanding, I think you and I are saying the same thing, Amsoil's 25,000 mile warranty ain't worth spit for most gasoline engines on the road today. :P
Best Regards,
Shipo
Strictly as a sidebar: diesel oils are formulated with SOOT suppression in mind (additives). (which is usually not an issue with gassers. (this I know is sensical to you, and me, but maybe not so to others reading this thread)
What if the Amsoil was so called "designed" to run with that in mind? After all it is YOUR equipment that is wearing faster than it has to during the second 12,500 miles. It is YOUR equipment, not theirs. It is truly YOUR nickel not theirs and the warranty legalese is designed for it to REMAIN your nickel. Synthetic PAO IV oil is very tough and very very long lasting stuff. By itself, it can lubricate 25,000 miles and beyond. It is why I went to synthetic PAO IV oil in the first place. Of course one of the spin offs is there is little to no sludge formation. If you take the whole 25,000 mile cycle as an aggregate, the additives portion indeed protects and mitigates till app 12,500 miles and the last 12,500 for lack of a better description is the phase unprotected by additive reserves. So this is the unprotected portion or "by product accumulation" phase. So if you tally the two oil analysis (12,500 and at 25,000 miles and average them as an aggregate, the wear might be to within so called "Amsoil acceptable wear limits". The lack of additive protection phase will have to be proved to have triggered the lack of lubrication by the PAO IV portion. As you probably would agree it is remote to non existent.
Indeed this might be SCARY to me (actually is) and you, but perfectly acceptable to the majority of who they sell to and who believe the 25,000 miles so called guarantee. This so called "design" parameter is anathema to me and probably YOU and other folks who follow synthetic oil issues, as I want the wear to be as little as possible to go 300,000 miles on a gasser and 500,000 to 1,250,000 on the TDI. Indeed oil analysis on a cross section of TDI's shows synthetics such as, Mobil One 5w40 show both the PAO IV component AND more germane the additive components good to 25,000 miles and beyond, i.e. reserve TBN etc.
So this issue kind of reminds me of that old movie where WC Fields playing the snake oil salesman taking the cigar out of his mouth and says under his breath to folks like me and you; go away boy, yah bothering me!!
For anyone willing to use a highest quality oil and change it more often than necessary, you ask what to do with the current AM Soil after putting it back in? I'd do 5000 at most and go back to Mobile 1.
You need to apply for replacement oil from AM Soil under their warranty also. It certainly didn't live up to their claims.
As for myself, who doesn't use synthetics but has considered it for longer change during spring-autumn months, I'd take out the other oils as well. I change the AM Soil out of the motor early because of the "Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me" policy I adopted about 25 years ago because of workplace politics.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This winter I'll change by 3000 or earlier with short, cold start trips without the time to purge contaminants. I'll use the standard filter in the older car and see what the finer filtration Pure One does in the new car. If the newer car gets longer runs to Cincy regularly to clear the oil I won't change at 2500.
I'm beginning to think a good filter is the key, whether I use regular oil or synthetic. I used to use Fram and GM filters along with Quaker State- whatever was on sale. Then I read Bobistheoilguy. But it's Purolator for me with maybe a filter change on the standard filters to extend the oil life; but the newer car gets PureOnes even if they're not on sale.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Probably oil analysis would change my thinking but I haven't done that.
So for example given your LONG auto experiences, plus the fact you host this thread. I would swag a guess you are in a unique position.
In so far as your OCI's of 7,500, according to qwiky lube INDUSTRY surveys, you are "ON the EDGE" as most folks are at 5,000 miles. So for the diesel portion you are "average".
So I do 15,000 mile OCI's (have for over 800,000 miles). The local Toyota dealer takes my current Landcruisers apart to check at 60,120,140k miles for a ( couple of hundred dollar) valve adjustment jobs. To date all they have checked, do not need it. Comments have ranged from cleanest they have ever seen, to unbelieveable, to still see the original oem tool markings. My service advisor almost gags when I sometimes hand him/her a FRAM oil filter when they change the Mobil One 5w30.
As for oil analysis, the market basically indicates that folks who actually do oil analysis is an "EXTREME MINORITY" position, ie 1% or less. (If anyone has any indicators that this is not true, then I would gladly stand corrected) YET in terms of objective measures and information, it is the REAL DEAL. Problem of course folks look at the 20-45 dollar cost and say changing the oil earlier is cheaper!!!
IDCOPE, you mentioned that customer experience is more important to you....
I believe that customer experience is very important, not more important than everything. I don't recall saying that and can't find it in my posts, but I'm sure that someone can if I did.
Customer experience vary, but a very high percentage of my customers have very good results, sometimes unbelievable results.
On the subject of your oil tests, some of your negative results my not be the fault of the oil. Some of the tests indicate the condition of the engine or the efficiency of the oil filter. Some oil filters separate internally when the resin holding the media all together gives up.
AMSOIL is very helpful and wants their customers to be satisfied, I realize that it's too late to help you but when I have a problem with a product I contact the company for resolution.
Personally I can recite problems with Mobil 1 from my own experiences and those of motorists and racers that I come in contact with.
Subject of all the test results on Bob's? Who knows who these people are and what there agenda is, do they work for Mobil 1? Are they promoting a testing facility? I don't know and nether do you.
I like testing that is by independent professionals doing testing that is specified by SAE and protocalled by ASTM. And I like customer experience (that's people I know) it gives credence that I can believe and pass on to other customers. This is how business works and since AMSOIL doesn't spend trillions on advertising customer referrals are important.
I realize that this is a "gotcha AMSOIL" site, but that's OK I think in the end all the rambling shows that the ALLEGED experts here is still trying to figure it all out.
When AMSOIL applied for a trademark on the term "The First in Synthetics" the trademark commission send a letter asking for comment to the motor oil producers in the US indicating "The First in Synthetics" also imply that AMSOIL is the first in performance. Their were no replys.
AMSOIL has been testing motor oils for over twenty years and publishing the results using 7 ASTM tests, AMSOIL is first in 6 out of 7 tests. There has never been a challenge by a motor oil producer. The significance of this?
AMSOIL was originally called AMZOIL, immediately Pennzoil file a legal challenge.
When Castrol switched from PAO base stocks to recracked petrol several years ago, Mobil 1 challenge the use of the term "100% Synthetic". Knowing these facts logic would indicate that if the ASTM testing were in anyway fraudulent a legal event would have occurred years ago.
On the back of AMSOIL Series 2000, 0w-30 the four ball wear test is emblazoned. And we realize that the internal parts of a street engine would never see those kind of pressures the four ball test is a likely indicator of wear prevention.
These tests can be viewed at
http://www.25000mileoil.com/page4.html
Another fact of the matter is the FCC, the have made several additive producers stop advertising falsely and have levied fine in some cases, AMSOIL. has never had this problem.
Some of the other AMSOIL negatives I have seen scanning the posts are:
double freight charges: ther is only one freight charge.
Lack of availablity:
AMSOIL has 11 warehouses stratigeally located around the US for effecient UPS delivery, in many locations if you order before noon your products are on your doorstep the next day.
Can't find a dealer? www.amsoil.com has a dealer locator on the home page. You can also order on line, you can call tool free 800-956-5695. It usually takes lees than two minutes to place and order which is about 43 minute less than a trip to Wally World for me.
Someone said that AMSOIL dealers must make allot of money because they are so enthusiastic: all of them don't make allot, some do. But we are passionate abut it because of the incredible results we get using the product, it's kind of like the teenager discovering something that his Dad doesn't know and it is allot of fun.
On the subject of the 5w-40 Euro oil and for you "GOTCHA guys" AMSOIL is presently the only north American producer of the latest euro spec. oil, you will have to do your own research.
Will welome valid responses and questions, not to gotcha's.
Good luck Smokey
ldcope
On the post about the synthetic oil shoot out Amsoil and Mobil One, the original assumption was a target of 15,000 miles and Amsoil went 14,000 miles, Mobil went 18,000. The samples were tested and analyzed by an independent lab. Oil analysis indicated Amsoil is in fact good to go to app 14,000 and in fact said so.
So if you are saying YOU ONLY like independent labs who give Amsoil stellar marks, to the exclusion of all others, well....I don't know that that means to you, but cooking the books comes to my mind. I say let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps you didn't like where the chips fell?
If I were Smokey75, I'd be looking for more than luck. Again I'd look for HOW to get the replacement quarts of product?? (in light of the 25,000 mile guarantee and almost total depletion of the additive formulation at 12,500 for example).
Evidently he is having the same problem from the Amsoil vendor he bought his from. So the next step according to the procedure is to communicate with Amoil customer service. As a potential customer, I can only assume this is (SOP) standard operating procedure. As a potential customer I also scratch my head and ask why would I want that kind of hassle on top of paying more for the product? Indeed one normally wants to give reasons for going to them. So far, I have gotten too many reasons NOT to!!???
You are a GOTCHA.
The big talk about warranty and extreme usage scares me away. The talk that no oil company has challenged them ontheir claims doesn't faze me; maybe Mobile thinks they're not work bothering with-a challenge would only be free advertising in the vein of "We're being picked on. We must be better."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am merely asking how to get warranty fulfillment. This is really a very low level logistical question. Simple question, should be simple answer. In effect the translation is: I am telling you why I would use Amsoil, You make a promise, you keep it. You make a promise and it doesn't fulfill: make it good (warranty fulfillment).
All the best!
So say Smokey75's Vendor or Amsoil complaint department for that matter just gave him the replacement oil. So someone says to him, well it is only good to go to 14,000 miles. Confirmed by MANY oil analysis'.
What do you think his response would be? Well results vary, but no matter, they make good with replacement product, so you can go to 25,000 miles.
Which case are you arguing for?
Like grandma used to say, I'm too poor to buy cheap stuff.
I'll buy the Mobile or Castol and try it this summer. Otherwise in Ohio cold short drives, I want to flush out the contaminants and condensates. If I were in the southern states where it's going to be 50 and above for most trips, I would think different and try the improved oil now.
My Exxon/Mobile is serving me fine.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
All of our cars are used under "severe service" conditions, and I would rather be safe than sorry. I do all of my own maintenance, including oil changes, and recycle the oil at Advance Auto Parts free-of-charge.
I don't believe in extended oil change intervals regardless of the formulation of the oil. I may be wasting money and time, but it's my money and time to waste.
That's the line I was referring to IDCOPE.
You say a very high percentage of your customers have very good results even unbelievable results. What results? Does this majority of your customers say things like "My car ran so much better on Amsoil" or other feel good things. Are you speaking of oil analysis? Because I'd be willing to bet most of your customers don't use oil analysis, as most people don't. So therefore, what are their good results... sorry, even unbelievable results? Their engine didn't blow up while they were using Amsoil?
As for the crappy results not being a result of the oil... my engine is in sound mechanical order, as Amsoil calls for before using their intervals. At least it was before using Amsoil for 2 years with one year intervals. Who knows what kind condition it's in now. And I'm sure Amsoil will warranty my engine when if it craps out years from now as a result. Good luck proving that one. But which tests show poor condition of the engine, as you said? And the filter was Amsoil, so if it seperated or didn't live up to its' efficiency claims I guess we can add their filters to the list of hype.
As for the BITOG forums, you're right I don't know if everybody who had a bad experience with Amsoil actually works for Mobil... but if I were a betting man. I don't think they're promoting a test facility either because there are tests from multiple companies. Many people post the PDF file of the actual test results. And what about the test that was posted on here with the Camaro using Mobil 1 & Amsoil. They had very similar results with Amsoil.
As for Amsoil's test being independent.... Just because it's an "independent" company that did the tests doesn't mean it's actually independent. The firm that did the testing was likely paid by Amsoil. I'm sure they don't work for free. The fact that money was exchanged makes my BS meter start to tingle.
I don't know what double freight meant but you do pay freight... which further raises the cost of an already expensive oil. And having 11 warehouses & using UPS doesn't make it "available." What do I do when I'm on vacation & realize I'm a quart low? Order a quart to my hotel?
IDCOPE, you keep talking about these great results people have with Amsoil. What about you? I'm assuming you use Amsoil, ever done an oil analysis after a year? Despite what you claim, this is not a "GOTCHA" forum. But there are legitimate problems with the life of Amsoil compared to what they claim and this can't be denied. I'm not trying to put you down or anything. I just have a feeling your opinions of Amsoil are based on the same flawed information that led me to Amsoil also. Thousands of customer testimonials that really don't say anything when you dig into them and ASTM testing that really doesn't show definitively which oil is better. Get an oil analysis!!!! You may be surprised by the results. What do you have to lose?
Problem is I don't want replacement quarts. I'm done... no more Amsoil. And don't forget, it's not just a 25,000 mile guarantee. It's 1 year or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first. I always thought that was a marketing tool anyway, even when I did like Amsoil. They're banking on the fact the hardly anyone will drive 25,000 miles in a year. At least Mobil 1 extended only claims 15,000 miles or 1 year.
On one of the vehicles I put only app 5k per year, so to get to 15,000 miles on that one, the OCI not done for app 3 years. Again the valve covers were torn off and valves checked and did NOT need adjusting at the 65k mile mark (was supposed to be 60k) The mechanic also remarked this was one of the cleanest (innards) that he'd worked on. And again at the 10 year and app 77k mark passed its smog only test with flying colors.