By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
409,000 on one oil change, I know this is a different animal than your standard vehicle, it is an over the road truck. But with bypass filtration, oil analysis, and regular filter changes it can last quite a bit longer in Internal combustion engines. I am also an aircraft mechanic, and know the difference between the oil you pour into an Embraer 145, a Cessna 150, and a Ford F250. they are designed for totally different applications. They have totally different additive packages for the type of duty they would expect out of each particular application. but you can see significantly longer OCI with synthetics versus conventionals.
qball1976
Nope, sorry, apples to oranges. Diesel engines don't introduce anywhere near the amout of harmful (to both oil and engine) contaminates that diesels do. Another thing to consider is that the big truck diesel engines consume a fair amount of oil and as such many actually have new oil reservoirs that continually feed oil into the engine as it is burned. In that scenario, you may never need to change the oil, simply change the massive filter on a periodic basis and keep adding oil.
As for gasoline fueled automobile and light truck engines, please show me UOAs of any engine running on any oil that proves that the oil is good to go well beyond the 20,000 mile mark. I've spent a lot of time browsing the UOA database over on BITOG and have yet to see a single UOA prove that point. That said, the new R18 Honda Civic engine looks like it might be able to perform that feat with very careful driving, however, I have yet to see it done.
"I am also an aircraft mechanic, and know the difference between the oil you pour into an Embraer 145, a Cessna 150, and a Ford F250. they are designed for totally different applications. They have totally different additive packages for the type of duty they would expect out of each particular application. but you can see significantly longer OCI with synthetics versus conventionals."
Are you advocating using synthetic oils in GA piston engines? If you are then PLEASE stay away from the planes that I fly (and the 170B that I'm shopping for). The truth of the matter is that while synthetic oils may be a lot of things, things that I demand for the oil in the engines of my cars, however, they ARE NOT appropriate for intermittent combustion engines running on 100LL. Why? Because PAO based oils are incapable of holding the TEL that isn't successfully scavenged by the bromide salts in suspension. After a while that TEL has a nasty tendency to collect in large enough quantities (in the form of a gray goo) on piston rings and then airplanes start falling out of the sky. Pass, I'll stick with AeroShell W100 if you please.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Tetra Ethyl Lead (TEL) isn't allowed to be put in road worthy vehicles anymore. would I suggest that someone do something illegal, Nope!!. I was mearly pointing out the fact that all 3 engine types perform the same function, through different means. The Embraer 145 has an Allison AE3007 A1 turbine engine on it, the oil in it has a different additive package than the oil I use in my Ford F250 with a 6.4l Powerstroke, Would I put BPTO2380 in my truck, heck no, Would I put Amsoil DEO in A Cessna 150, Heck No, besides the fact it isn't certified for that application, either by the FAA or AMSOIL, It won't work correctly. I know the difference between the oils. I make it a point to be informed, because with lives on the line who can afford not to be informed. The AeroShell W100 for the Cessna 150, the BPTO2380 for the Embraer 145, and the Amsoil DEO for my Ford F250 super duty. The correct oil for the correct application, that's what I advocate, and if I am misunderstood. Always consult your owners manual for the correct lubricant type and grade for your particular vehicle and driving conditions.
Qball1976
what interval would you recommend for filter change if extending oil use. i have a gm vehicle and my oil life meter is generally at about 60% at around 4000 miles :confuse:
For example, OEM recommendations:
For one vehicle (GM) a 15,000 miles OCI (Mobil One 5w30 synthetic) is the oem fill recommendation) and (oil) filter is also 15,000 miles OCI, and this is a ($2.00, got 12 when a local KMART was closing) AC Delco PF-44.
For another vehicle (Civic) the oem fill recommendation is 10,000 miles OCI (on conventional 5w20) with an oem (oil) FILTER recommendation of every other OCI or 20,000 miles.
For another vehicle (Jetta TDI), it is commonly known that the oem, Mann, Mayle (are among the oem vendors) make cartridge oil filter is made to go the 30,000 mile distance.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I also agree with your observation that tests indicate the filter gets more efficient after a few thousand miles. This is also true about oil, given a little known (SAE) oil study, which can be purchased and down loaded on line.
Essentially the point is so called "new" oil actually lets the affected engine parts WEAR down FASTER (microscopically) during its NEW oil phase, than so called older oil.
So oxymoronically, the more frequent the OC interval, which NEW oil is changed out, the FASTER the wear !!! So in the case of 3,000 vs 20,000 miles that is 6.7 TIMES faster!!! It begins its most effective lubrication job some thousands of miles in the crankcase!!!
Also the fear of the wear due to by products after many thousands of miles in the crankcase is WAY overblown. First of all the sulfur in RUG as been 30 ppm for a lot of years! This of course structurally lessens the formation and deposit of by products in the engine oil. This of course is a bit like cursing in the church when the mantra change oil every 3/4k is sung!
So in effect you are trying to see the relationship of app 3/4 overlapping variables and their 3/4 resulting statistical analysis AND correlations in a real life oil change.
What the product vendors do is gamble that you do not keep it long enough to where it really makes a difference!! They use statistics to market as much product as possible (within legal and moral guidelines, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this). My take is to use statistics to (in line with the LONGEST wear) use the LEAST and least amount of products and cost the least as possible !! So the next logical question in this progression is at what point does the so called dirty oil affect the speed of degradation of lubrication!!? My take of it is 15,000 miles ), 20,000 miles 25,000 miles. (on my cars, being conservative.
So in that sense, I do NOT fault someone that changes oil from 1,000 to 4,000 miles. But I have long since stopped changing oil at 1,000 to 4,000 miles!!
HOWEVER!!!???.... I jusr recently had a long and deep look at the innards of a (my) Jetta TDI at 100,000 miles with 25,000 mile OCI's !!! Guess what?... SHINY!! Not even a hint of carbon or sludge build up! There were absolutely no wear marks on the all critical high points of the camshaft! Indeed one could see original tool markings!! The most telling thing was the tech guru's reaction: what IS the BIG deal, almost all of them are like that, given the use of correct oil!!!!!??? Delvac One 5w40 here!
In the past I had a Toyota Landcruiser sold at app 250,000 miles which had close to 17 valve adjustments. The dealer techs used to marvel at how clean and original the wear points were. Again Mobil One 5w30 @ 15,000 miles and Judas Priest FRAM PH8A oil filters!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
1) IIRC, the BMW LL-04 specification is specifically for Diesel engines. Yes, no?
2) For gasoline engines the BMW LL-01 specification is still the minimum standard for all gasser BMWs.
3) Based upon my readings, I actually hold the VW 503.01 oil specification as the Holy Grail for gasoline engines, and oddly enough, the Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 has not met that standard.
Me? I'll stay with either GC 0W-30 or Mobil 1 0W-40, errr, at least until somebody else meets the 503.01 spec. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I haven't got confirmation either way on that. My thinking was that the characteristics that make it a good diesel oil would make it better suited for DI engines with their attendent oil dilution issues.
For gasoline engines the BMW LL-01 specification is still the minimum standard for all gasser BMWs.
That wasn't my main concern, since I plan to keep my Bimmers on a steady diet of M1 0W-40.
I actually hold the VW 503.01 oil specification as the Holy Grail for gasoline engines, and oddly enough, the Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 has not met that standard.
Oops! Missed that. Good catch!
In any event, I still think it might prove to be a decent oil for my Mazdaspeed application
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Best Regards,
Shipo
Now, if you want to step into oils that claim to meet the API standards, and claim to meet various manufacturers oil specifications, but have not been certified to meet any of those standards by independent labs, then you can look at Royal Purple, Red Line, Amsoil and probably a few others.
In the end, most folks buy Mobil 1 as it is the most widely available Group IV on the market. If you want to buy German Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (often referred to simply as GC), the only place where I consistently find it is at AutoZone.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Other group IV oils are Amsoil and Redline, (who both SAY they meet the standards, but indeed are NOT certified for to specifications for most of their oils) ELF. There are more, but some of the names escape me. You will find all three (and most others also) are at premium to Mobil One.
I am also told that Mobil One 0w40 shows great UOA numbers in place of 0w20,5w20 oils. But for your application, you would lose the fuel efficiency advantage, as you would with the 0w30,5w30. 0w30,0w40 are a bit of a hybrid in that they are generally used in European applications. So in that sense, I would not recommend them unless you are willing to cross check specifications and also take a chance on engine warranty issues, which is VERY, VERY, VERY, remote(same would be true of 0w30,5w30).
Indeed if your manual specifies the above oils, you have NO warranty concerns, not even with 0w30. Smaller issues such as 0w30 premiums and slightly higher fuel efficiencies now come to the fore.
How are we doing so far?
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Rewards/Mobil_1_Rewards.aspx
LSAC GF-4
API SM/CF
ACEA A1/B1
Ford WSS-M2C930-A
Chrysler MS-6395
And the 0W-30 meets
GM 6094M, GM 4718M (Corvette spec)
Ford WSS-M2C929-A
ILSAC GF-4
API SM/CF
ACEA A1/B1
But I am still worried the 0W-30 is NOT on the recommended weights of oil from the manufacture. So why am I even thinking about it????? lol
(this may or may not be readily apparent!?Include the 0w20, and 0w30 if you have not already.)
What you seem to be missing is the fact that a Group IV oil in the 0W-30 grade is a superset of that same oil in either 5W-30 or 10W-30. The two critical items here are to have the first number (i.e. 0W, 5W or 10W) to be as low or lower than the recommendation, meanwhile you want to have the second number pretty much bang on (or maybe a bit higher) than the recommendation. Said another way, if your manufacturer recommends 10W-30, then you can also safely choose 5W-30 or 0W-30, if they recommend 5W-30 then you can choose that or a 0W-30. Make sense?
The benefit to the lower first number is that the oil will start flowing and be protecting internal engine components faster following a cold start than either a 5W-30 or a 10W-30. The colder the engine gets, the greater the advantage is for 0W-30.
Another thing to keep in mind is that for many older cars (our 1998 for instance), 0W-anything oils were all but non-existent when they were built and as such, manufacturers didn't start specifying then until fairly recently (with the excpetion of a number of European marques who were early adopters of 0W oils).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Also, thanks again for all the help.
So another source if you want to get a tad more on the arcane side is www.bobistheoilguy.com.
However I do agree with Shipo, if you can use the 0w, you do get both a faster and better flow. If 0w30 were NOT at premium to 5w30, I would go to that viscosity in a heartbeat. My other issue (small) is less line item stockage, as well as less units on inventory. In my case to illustrate the point, would I rather stock one viscosity (0w20), and the next oil change (up to 7 qts); or would I rather stock 5w40, (5 qts), 5w30 (8 qts), 5w20 (4 qts), for a total of 17 qts. ?
before the intrigue was traded for the torrent, it was in the shop to have the intake replaced. out intrigue had the 3800 engine and was prone to the manifold(composit material) warpping at the egr valve and letting coolant into the engine. when the tech had the engine apart he commented on how perfectly clean the inside of the engine was.
i have a question for those here. what brand of oil filter do you use and recommend? i have used the mobil1 filters, but was wondering if there are better ones out there.
thanks
richard
Short answer, using an example, OEM. Since almost all oil filters are vendored by someone else, OEM filters are made to OEM specifications. The Honda OEM Civic's oil filter is vendored by FRAM. (old Allied Systems) now owned by Honeywell. (flameproof suit on, SCBA at the ready)
The Honda Civic OEM recommendation for engine oil filter change is "EVERY OTHER" So since the recommended oil change is at 10,000 miles, 5w20 (CONVENTIONAL oil) fill, every other is 20,000 miles engine (oil) FILTER change. (flameproof suit on, SCBA ON)
Literally for my .02 cents, oem (FRAM in this case) AND the familar FRAM ORANGE model numbers are at premium to very well made, (CHAMPION LABS) WallyMart SuperTech filters at last purchase, $2.12 per oil filter. (flameproof suit on, SCBA ON-fire fight is ON)
I change the Mobil One 0w20 AND filter @ 20,000 miles OCI's, because I am a conservative, belt and suspenders kind of guy!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The issues became starkly clear to me in that I use a so called OEM/vendor ed cartridge oil filter in a VW Jetta TDI. It is MADE to go a 30,000 mile OCI. (Made to support the VW 507.00 specification, the so called LL or long life oil (up to 30,000 miles) Short story shorter, I wish ALL my cars had 1. top access 2. cartridge type oil filters.
As you can surmise, that is a a 1/3 over the OEM/vendor ed by FRAM- Honda Civic. MORE cents/dollars in a cartridge filter (CAN) be used to upgrade the filtration and/or charge less or both!
Yes indeed it does make logical sense, higher cost higher quality, but....Now the weird question : is it statistically correlated!!??? The answer is NO or at best unclear. So that I am being clear: if my car will last to say 250,000 miles with the "el crappo tsk, tsk" filter: with 4x better the cost (of the spin on/off oil filter) will my engine last 1 M miles? Do you see the disconnect here?
Following the logic to another bottom line here: almost NO folks (% wise) use bypass oil filtration!!?? Aftermarket is so called costly, but given the above logic (250,000 miles to 1,000,000 miles) CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP??!! (200-300). In addition the oems can get the cost down exponentially LOWER if the oems put it in. (pure volume comes to mind here)
Here you can in effect use a very "fine screen" filter. Indeed some Amsoil (EA models) bypass oil filters, literally microscopically scrub the oil to a cleaner conditions than when it comes factory sealed from the BOTTLE!!! Again Oxymoronically installation of this "benefit" can actually VOID or make tougher engine warranty fulfillment in the absolutely remote chance you do have engine issues.
So statistics are really on your side when you follow what the OEM's recommend. When you want to do either slightly to radically different things, a little research and sites like www.bobistheoilguy.com come in handy and are indeed considered required.
Again you will probably want to comply with oem recommendations during the relatively short warranty periods. After that, you self warranty anyway.
thanks
As you can probably see and surmise, there are a lot more things going on than just changing your oil and filter at 3,000 miles.
Isn't this the old "more is always better" argument?
Please explain the old "more is always better" argument?
Contaminants levels in the used oil are lower than most other reported results (by other vehicle owners) with a third of the miles driven.
After OCI's of 12 to 15K miles my results are consistently better than other reports with 5K miles or less.
This does not mean that the oil is fit for longer intervals simply because the TBN is low enough to warrant a change.
What I am trying to say is that based on that personal experience I venture to guess that the engines in my cars will last a lot longer than average.
Will I reap the benefit of a longer engine life in my cars? Probably not because I sell them usually around the 300K mile mark.
A trucking company or a taxi cab company may be able to tell whether a difference in engine wear is measurable for higher mileages. They would know if there is a payback or not for the investment.