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Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Based on the dearth of responses to my query, I guess I can conclude that that Motorcraft Full Synthetic isn't very good, otherwise there would be at least one person out there singing its praises!
The reason is that I am thinking of going synthetic with my next vehicle. Ford upped their OCI to 7,500 for 2008 and later, but being the old school guy that I am, I am a bit hesistant to let the oil go for that long. However, if I go synthetic, I think I'll feel better about that type of interval.
The Ford dealer offers Motorcraft full synthetic oil. I suppose that I could bring my own oil, but if the dealer's oil is good, I might as well save myself the trouble and use theirs.
If you want to have a better warm and fuzzy feeling about running your oil for 7,500 miles, use any of the Mobil 1 offerings or Castrol 0W-30 (which is the only Castrol Syntec that is a true PAO based synthetic oil).
Best Regards,
Shipo
My point is that they can make the stuff out of egg whites and cardboard for all I care, as long as it does the job, right?
Fact, true synthetic motor oil is a superior lubricant to hydrocracked crude oil.
Fact, "Motorcraft Full Synthetic motor oil" is not a true synthetic oil.
Fact, if you want to be sure that the oil in your engine will be good to go for the full 7,500 miles (at the very least), you're going to want to buy a better oil than the Motorcraft oil.
Best Regards,
Shipo
No. Did someone tell you that it would?
Would plan on every 5K. is it that good?
I would change it at whatever interval that Volvo recommends. You can always have a used oil analysis performed to determine if that interval can be safely extended.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Best Regards,
Shipo
FWIW, Supertech is not a true synthetic oil, in spite of the moniker bestowed upon it by Walmart, it is in fact a hydrocracked crude oil.
As for running it in a highly strung engine that is blown so hard that it is able to squeeze nearly 300 hp out of just 2.0 liters, no freaking way. If you want your engine to last, you'll need to buy a quality PAO based synthetic oil. If I had that car the only oils that I would consider using are Mobil 1 0W-30, Mobil 1 5W-30, Mobil 1 0W-40, or Castrol Syntec 0W-30. Period, full stop, the end.
Best Regards,
Shipo
After paying his car insurance premium he's probably having to scrimp and save just to buy the Walmart rotgut... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Its the best True Synthetic that we have tested that is we can find in the USA.
As well as the only company that offer CVT Fluid...
Any comments?
Based upon their MSDSs, VOAs over on BITOG and a few other sources, it looks like ENEOS oil is a good high quality Group III product, however, not in the same league as true synthetic Group IV offerings.
"Its the best True Synthetic that we have tested that is we can find in the USA."
Statements like that are easy to write but extremely difficult to prove, especially in light of other sources on the internet that indicate quite the contrary.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If you have a German Auto, use Mobil 1 0W-40. It was designed for all European Imports. There is nothing better out there and anyone who tells you there is something better is full of crap.
(Audi...riding the wave the others have not caught yet.)
(Oil Industry Engineer)
Yes, I am going to echo Shipo on this one. What he said pretty much sums it up.
ENEOS is 100% GRP IV / V the only flavor in the line up that contains GRP III is the 5w-30 synthetic it is GRP III / IV... And the bottle is labeled accordingly ( the 5w-30 bottle is labled SYNTHETIC not FULL SYNTHETIC)
Also the BITOG is very biased, and run exclusivly by and mainly sponsored by AMS and AMS dealers...
Also the VOA's that have been posted vary widely, pesonally i have sent 3 samples of ENEOS 0w-50 SM (all samples from 1 bottle) to 3 different testing facilitys (ie: blackstone/AMS testers/and another one i forget who) And get 3 totally different results/ So different that you would think they were sent 3 different oils....
Given the preponderance of evidence that suggests that Eneos oil is nothing more than a hydrocracked crude with an extremely low TBN, there's absolutely no way I'd put that stuff in my car. Factor in the high price (which by the way is about one and a half times that of Mobil 1, which is clearly a superior oil), and you have an oil that is no better that Supertech from Wally World at four times the cost. :P
Best Regards,
Shipo
So if I hear you correctly you really don't have much data from VOA and UOA's from ENEOS products. The data that you do have is just normal VOA measurement deviance. This is no reason to accuse someone/site of bias because they do not have VOA and UOA's from one that you want to imply is as good or better.
While VOA's are an individual snapshot in time, the real utility is the TREND. So for example when you send each of of three labs a sample from one bottle ,you are setting a (baseline) to which future UOA's can be benchmarked so to speak. So for example using your explanation, on your very next UOA you need to send one sample to each lab. from the same oil change sample.
And what i was trying to convey is that you shouldn't trust the validity of the data posted on bobs site. And it shouldn't be used as any sort of refrence..
A simple call to ENEOS will reward you with most of the information you guys are debating about.. There 0w-50 SM is complex ester/PAO. Mostly PAO. There Pro-Racing 0w-50 Non SM is aprox 40% ester. Even the descriptons for the product state ester base... Grrr
Also all of the 0w-20 that they make for Toyota N Honda as factory fill is GRPIII (GTL) GRP IV
ENEOS 0w-20 is III(GTL)/IV/V
And yes the trend over the life is what your looking at. Trust me we know
Just because a oil has a low TBN is ABSOLUTLY NO INDICATOR OF HOW LONG IT WILL LAST. Its really about how the oil reacts to NO, NOX, and Oxidation. If you guys are intrested i have some test data of how ENEOS compares with other brands See below
I am glad, your post indicated you (and or your logistical chain) did not.
So a quick goggle puts a qt of Eneos @ $11.50 per qt. for 0w20. I wonder out loud is it 2.5x better than Mobil One 0w20,5w20 at 4.60 per qt in 5 qt containers.
If so, let me know for I am running 20,000 mile OCI's with the Mobil One 0w20,5w20 and it would be way cool to run 50,000 mile OCI's on Eneos. :confuse: :shades:
..."1. Low Viscosity (0W-20) - ENEOS Motor Oil 0W20 is blended from high-performance hydrorefined base oils (bold my sic) and an optimized additive blend, so it provides much better heat and oxidation stability than regular motor oils blended from solvent-refined base oils. "...
http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/ENE-EN-0W20.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=search&- - - - - - utm_campaign=froogle
http://www.eneos.us/products.php?pk=5
Why would anyone want to call? Pretty clear in print!?
hydrorefined (aka) =hydrocracked= (not group VI)
So the bottom line is why not run a 10,000 mile OCI on 0w20 Eneos and post the UOA/'s over to bobistheoilguy? I would hate to think you would be afraid of the results and consumers wanting to compare and contrast?
Best Regards,
Shipo
And yes the trend over the life is what your looking at. Trust me we know...
link title
The other thing that was a bit disconcerting was the video clip testing the Eneos oils was tested on an LS2 ( started life as a crate engine: modified and adapted as a dyno test mule) A normal LS2 specifies 0w30,5w30,10w30 and the GM 4128 M specification, which research as I may, Eneos products do NOT apparently meet. The nexus here is the specification is normally only met by group VI (and above products) This is NOT to imply that a group III product can NOT, but then again, it does not currently meet the GM 4178 M specification.
In addition ,5w20 and 0w20 is not specified to be run in an LS2 nor is 5w40 or 0w50.
I'm sure it would...[sarcasm off]
So... how much profit do you make per quart?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The other side of this are specifications and standards are both changing and evolving. One long term trend that is slowly coming to the US market is higher specification motor oils, costing between 10-15 (US) per qt. Notable are European cars such as MB, BMW, Porsche, VW. VW has VW 507.00 with a variable OCI to 30,000 miles OCI's.
http://www.tdiparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=496
Best Regards,
Shipo
However of late, as you have mentioned, more folks are really starting to become attuned to this shift. Not many of the US market oems have really made the shift. Some that come to mind are: Honda (conventional 5w20,(usually synthetic)0w20-10,000 miles OCI's) Corvette (Mobil One 5w30- up to 15,000 miles OCI) As a practical matter most oems still recommend 3,000 to 5,000 oci's. ( MAX 7,500)
So yes .65 cents a quart stuff will be fine for your engine and you will never need anthing better, Yes it protects but thats it... Dont expect it to not polymerize, or help you fuel mileage any
IF you are addressing me, your responses totally indicate you ignored msg# 7754. For the third time, I am ok with your take.
So to use a ratio analogy: if I had my used 2004 Civic to sell; say @ 12,000 used (a steal at that). I really would have no problems with folks (like you) paying me 17.69 x more or $212,280.
So would you like to buy my Civic? :shades:
I was not planning on selling it, but hey 17.69 X would be better than one day in the stock markets. :shades: I know you could run Eneos oil in it! Send me the Eneos and I will take out that old rot gut M1 0w20 out!
(using the same ratios 11.50/.65=17.7 to one)
How is Mobil capable of such feat? Never ship Walmart's oil to AutoZone, it must be logistical nightmare.
Krzys
Here is one of my favorite lines:
"In my opinion Motul,ELF,ENEOS,AMS are worth the money, and are not in the same class as super-tech or walmart M1."
Too funny. Based upon the UOAs that I've read, Mobil 1 performs as well as or better than Amsoil, grade for grade at a half to two thirds the cost.
Oh wait, I forgot, you don't believe UOAs are scientific evidence of anything. That being the case, let me ask you this Mr. Eneos peddler, would you fly in a small airplane that hadn't had its oil analyzed via a UOA recently? I sure as heck wouldn't.
Im not that familiar with there 0w-40 formulation, with the exception that Mobil 0w-40 "european car formula" was replaced by ENEOS 0w-50 in the mazda-cosworth formula atlantic car series starting in 2006, due to excessive wear on the cam lobes and tappet buckets, thus rendereing the Mazda MZR engines usable for only 1 race and requiring rebuild. Thus violating the contractual obligation with cosworth When ENEOS 0w-50 was evaluated as the approved replacement lubricant, There were significant differences on the critical components as compared to the baseline oil, with the carry over items such as cams and cylinder head being fine for reuse without any requirement for rework.
I can't publish the the evaluation tech artical as "The contents of this document are proprietary & confidential to Cosworth Ltd"
But i do have the VOA and UOA results from the test:
VOA - ENEOS 0w-50 Pro-Racing
Average Pre-Test Oil Analysis (in parts per million)
Fe Cr Pb Cu Sn Al Ni Ag
0.9 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.3 0.2 0.0
Si B Na Mg Ca Ba P Zn
3.5 71.8 13.1 13.8 1716 4.6 839 830
Mo Ti V H C
51.2 0.0 0.0 1201 58732
UOA - ENEOS 0w-50 Pro-Racing
Average Post-Test Oil Analysis (in parts per million)
Fe Cr Pb Cu Sn Al Ni Ag
23.2 0.0 1952 12.2 0.0 19.9 0.9 0.1
Si B Na Mg Ca Ba P Zn
242 71.5 24.2 16.9 1732 2.7 872 853
Mo Ti V H C
47.5 2.6 0.0 1255 60420
If i can find the Infrared Spectrum Analysis results i'll post em
Opps sorry to go off on a tangent
As far as i know, the only products that are not price point blended are M1 5w-30 and 10w-30. EP is not pricepoint blended as far as i know. But there is significant differences between Walmart M1 0w-20 (5.99-6.99) and Honda M1 0w-20 (9.99-10.99) and Mercedes M1 0w-20(18.00) per qt.
For the most part as the price goes up, so does the good stuff in the bottle
I think im safe if i said there's a difference between Walmart M1 0w-40 and Mercedes M1 0w-40, but not sure. I know you guys hate eneos thats why i had to bring up cosworth test results.
Just out of curiosity where are you guys from, because ENEOS is super popular in CA, NV area, you can find it most honda/toyota/nissan/dealers as a factory approved upgrade from the standard synthetic. As well as being a stocked item in almost every performance shop i can think of. I don't understand why it seems so foriegn to u. Eneos is huge, last years sales were aprox 63 billion which puts them as the 6 largest petrochemical oil producer in the world. Im not sure why everyone puts them in to the fly-by-night snake oil company :lemon:
It would appear that YOU think that is true, however it is completely false!
The Cosworth Test Results have absolutely NO correlation with any of my passenger vehicles, nor does a Formula One racer.
From the Eneos companies' own web site
..."We still do suggest a routine check up of the condition of the oil every 3000 to 5000 miles or so to ensure optimal protection."...
link title
Dude, you are so full of the bilge that you're spewing that this thread is getting laughable. It's too bad that the TownHall doesn't have a big global "IGNORE" button for folks who make up facts and stats as they go. If they did, you'd be one of the first to get bounced.
Please, go over to BITOG and peddle your bilge water oil over there.
I can't wait.
(Going to get some popcorn before the show starts.)
:P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I belive i still have the 0w-20 test results.
Im stuck working a booth @ the Fast lube convention in vegas today
PPB is very common practice in the industry, Most of the M1 in quicky lube places is a detuned PPB product as well. With exception of 5w-30 10w-30 there mostly GRP3 anyway, theres' not much PAO in em to take out.
Im going to mosie on down to mobils booth and skype a PPB packet, as this is an industry they really are trying to push PPB product to. Essentially they sell em half-crap with a great brand name, with a price a little less than normal.
This practice of PPB is starting to get noticed, for example alot of dealerships that were stocking product from M1 through there supply house were starting to notice that they were paying 6.75 - 7.00 a qt for M1 0w-20, whice had a MAP pricepoint of 9.99 a qt. And they could buy it at walmart or pepboys for less then there cost!!!
A lot of dealers were going to costco and buying a pallet of 0w-20 and saving huge money, untill they realized there is a difference, a BIG difference. I belive the bottles have different fine print, just like when they used to tell you in really tiny print on the backside of the bottle, I had a lot more respect for M1 then, becasue they told you the product was not synthetic just contained a small percentage of synthetics.
Let me see what i can find, it not like they have a table of brochures saying we can bottle cheaper product that yopu customers will think is the same as the good stuff. he he
You don't like THAT site? Post it where ever you want or like and leave a link so folks can see it!!??
VOA/UOA's could probably even be posted here. I have seen other folks reactions to Eneos products (on other sites). They did NOT appear to be happy campers. The majority use (SHORT OCI's) at a 3,400 mile OCI .(almost laughable for my real world applications of 15,20,25k)
Normal comparisons studies would be VOA's of 0w20 (they do not sell M1 0w20's in ANY Costco I have ever been to and I have been to (13), Hi (2), OR(2), NV (1),WA (2), CA (5) BC (1). Next would be either a side by side OCI or a remove and replace with OCI and take the UOA's. etc etc then debate would be after the results are in.
Just propaganda!? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I can read the Eneos web site just like anyone else. They do NOT address PAO's, group IV or even V products. They do say 100% synthetic and do say hydro refined. (aka hydro cracked) In one manner of speaking it is all about the results. (as documented in the tests (UOA's)
link title
Realistically my take: since they do meet "certain" oil standards, I would not have any issues using it under those NEEDED oil standards specifications. The only product that seems to meets specifications for any of mine is the 0w20,5w20 Honda Civic products. The rest of the products do not meet any of the (common) the specifications I need- they are not even mentioned. My issue is: are the products worth say 11.50 vs 5 bux M1.
Right now, I have less than ZERO incentives to switch. Would I ever consider it? Probably, given a few UOA's. However I think he has already loudly answered the questions I would have.
Real world (for me) would indicate 10,000, 15,000, 20,000, 25,000 UOA's. I run those OCI's on so-called oils he does not respect @ 15,000 to 25,000 miles and have for over 850,000 miles. ZERO issues ZERO problems.
They have no undertanding on how a oil with a TNB of say 4.8 can out last an AMS oil product with TBN of 12. TBN is everything to them. TBN has nothing to to with the oils ability to be broken down and oxidised by NO and NOx's.
We were going to sponsor there website, once they found out how popular ENEOS was out west, and how good the oil actually performed compared to AMS, and how much the AMS dealers who peddle there product there were complaining and whining, about how unfair it was to let this snake oil company (eneos) sponsor a reputable AMS website, They increased our sponsor fee per qtr 10x from 900 to 9000 dollars
Thats BS I have no respect for those guys.
That's just fine, so far at least you've slung more mud and offered less concrete information than even the worst of the slime throwers over on BITOG, and as such, we have no respect for you and your message.