Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

28firefighter said:
So this caught my eye - something that would be practical for us day-to-day and fun to drive.

How terrible an idea is this?
http://www.sandbergvolvo.com/used/Porsche/2008-Porsche-Cayenne-lynnwood-wa-5b9ff7c70a0e0ae867dfbbaffa068eb3.htm

I know it has the air suspension which could be a disaster...

SUVs (or is that a crossover?) are not my thing but if you like it go for it. Is that what you want? When I think Porsche I think Boxter or 911. How do they handle compared to other Porsches and other SUVs? Does this one have that engine bearing problem that was mentioned?

9k or so miles per year isn't bad.

On the plus side you'd have room for the family.

Michaell · August 2017

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Reviews of the new Tesla Model 3 have been pretty good. The car seems aimed right at BMW 320 and the Mercedes C class.
Except that it costs $40k with only a 220 mile range- $50k if you want 300 miles between charging stops.

I was chatting with @jpp5862 about this last night.

I think the mythical $35K Model 3 (I'm seeing it referred to as the M3, which will annoy a lot of BMW fans), will be like the $9999 Nissan Versa - you can get it, but you really don't want it.

qbrozen · August 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

So this caught my eye - something that would be practical for us day-to-day and fun to drive. How terrible an idea is this? http://www.sandbergvolvo.com/used/Porsche/2008-Porsche-Cayenne-lynnwood-wa-5b9ff7c70a0e0ae867dfbbaffa068eb3.htm I know it has the air suspension which could be a disaster...
SUVs (or is that a crossover?) are not my thing but if you like it go for it. Is that what you want? When I think Porsche I think Boxter or 911. How do they handle compared to other Porsches and other SUVs? Does this one have that engine bearing problem that was mentioned? 9k or so miles per year isn't bad. On the plus side you'd have room for the family.

No bearing issue on the V engines in the Cayenne. They do have a cooling pipe under the intake that will fail, but not nearly as bad of a wallet dent.

But a vehicle with over 80k miles for $20k? No thanks.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2017

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Reviews of the new Tesla Model 3 have been pretty good. The car seems aimed right at BMW 320 and the Mercedes C class.
Except that it costs $40k with only a 220 mile range- $50k if you want 300 miles between charging stops.

I think MSRP for the base model is about $35,000---about the same as the 320. and $44K for the Long Range model. You can run one up to around $55K with all the options.

Also there are still government subsidies to factor in as well.

imidazol97 · August 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Ford just sent me a solicitation for an extended warranty again. Said I was running out of coverage. Hmmmmm...basic warranty is for 3 years, it's only been two so...nice scare tactic.

The offer is more scare stuff like the cost of a new engine, ...

Is this the official Ford type extended warranty? Or is it an imposter, trying to use wording to sound official but not really the Ford warranty from FMC? I get a lot of those from companies about my 3 GMs trying to sound official. I don't recall GM sending me any that used the scare data.

This dealer sounds like they are selling the Ford official plans: Ford Protect nee Ford ESP. I bought my GM warranties from a GM dealer who discounts the plans in Edinburg or somewhere like that.
http://andersonandkoch-ford-warranty.com/

roadburner · August 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Reviews of the new Tesla Model 3 have been pretty good. The car seems aimed right at BMW 320 and the Mercedes C class.
Except that it costs $40k with only a 220 mile range- $50k if you want 300 miles between charging stops.
I think MSRP for the base model is about $35,000---about the same as the 320. and $44K for the Long Range model. You can run one up to around $55K with all the options.

Also there are still government subsidies to factor in as well.

Tesla’s Model 3 isn’t a luxury car, but it’s priced like one

Michaell · August 2017

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Reviews of the new Tesla Model 3 have been pretty good. The car seems aimed right at BMW 320 and the Mercedes C class.
Except that it costs $40k with only a 220 mile range- $50k if you want 300 miles between charging stops.
I think MSRP for the base model is about $35,000---about the same as the 320. and $44K for the Long Range model. You can run one up to around $55K with all the options.

Also there are still government subsidies to factor in as well.

Tesla’s Model 3 isn’t a luxury car, but it’s priced like one

Interesting article - I read a similar article that compared the Model 3 to a Toyota Corolla.

Wonder how many of those 500,000 folks who plunked down the $1000 deposit will want their money back once they see this.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2017

That's if you want options. Whether someone buys the "stripper" is up to them. The MSRP is $35,000. The base 320 isn't exactly feature-laden either.

You can run up a BMW 320 to $47,000 and a Tesla Model 3 even higher if you wish.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Reviews of the new Tesla Model 3 have been pretty good. The car seems aimed right at BMW 320 and the Mercedes C class.
Except that it costs $40k with only a 220 mile range- $50k if you want 300 miles between charging stops.

220 is better than 50 with the Mitsu Mivec. 220 could be a week's commute but 50 might not get you home at night. Even 70 mile range of the Leaf would scare me.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Ford just sent me a solicitation for an extended warranty again. Said I was running out of coverage. Hmmmmm...basic warranty is for 3 years, it's only been two so...nice scare tactic.

The offer is more scare stuff like the cost of a new engine, ...
Is this the official Ford type extended warranty? Or is it an imposter, trying to use wording to sound official but not really the Ford warranty from FMC? I get a lot of those from companies about my 3 GMs trying to sound official. I don't recall GM sending me any that used the scare data.

This dealer sounds like they are selling the Ford official plans: Ford Protect nee Ford ESP. I bought my GM warranties from a GM dealer who discounts the plans in Edinburg or somewhere like that.
http://andersonandkoch-ford-warranty.com/

Yeah, looks to be a Ford product (Ford Protect) lots of blue ovals in the brochure. I wouldn't even conside a third party offer. Won't take this one either but thought the variable months/milage made it more attractive.

Speaking of months and milage....

I was looking at the Ford dealer's web site where I traded the Eclipse for the Mustang 2 years ago and found my Eclipse is back on their used inventory. Checked the VIN to be sure. When I traded it had 45k miles and was pristine. They went for a $5k price bump and it sat until winter when it disappeared.

Now it's back with 14,000 more miles and an accident history for the same price they paid me 2 years ago. I'm almost tempted to call and ask for the story.

imidazol97 · August 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Now it's back with 14,000 more miles and an accident history for the same price they paid me 2 years ago. I'm almost tempted to call and ask for the story.

Now that's ironic that you happened to recognize that it was back. Reminds me I need to check VINs with the Ohio BMV to see if my two leSabres are still titled here. I miss those cars. Well, I miss the good memories but both were over 200K. I'd ridden those seats enough.

28firefighter · August 2017

@oldfarmer50 - the challenge we are running into is parking space. If we choose to stay in our current home, a third car is a non-starter and we need two cars with 4 doors for as long as Sam remains in a car seat. If we move, we may be able to house a third car, but there is also a good chance we would not - although a 2-3 car garage is high on my priority list, the reality is if we move, number of bedrooms, location, condition and price will win out every time.

A Cayenne could be a good compromise. Or maybe not. Just spitballing.

driver100 · August 2017

I still get official looking extended warranties for our Passat which we haven't owned since last November. They also call about twice a month as well, even though I tell them I DON'T OWN THAT CAR ANY MORE!!!!!!

They still call. Then they ask me what I traded it in for....and I say I gave up driving, and then they hang up, but, they call again in two weeks, asking about an EW for the Passat. :@

driver100 · August 2017

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Now it's back with 14,000 more miles and an accident history for the same price they paid me 2 years ago. I'm almost tempted to call and ask for the story.
Now that's ironic that you happened to recognize that it was back. Reminds me I need to check VINs with the Ohio BMV to see if my two leSabres are still titled here. I miss those cars. Well, I miss the good memories but both were over 200K. I'd ridden those seats enough.

Anyone know where GG's Cadillac is these days?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2017

North Korea I hope.

qbrozen · August 2017

driver100 said:

Anyone know where GG's Cadillac is these days?

ab348 · August 2017

I read an account of a local writer with a Chevy Bolt recently, and based on his positive experience with it, that began appealing to me more and more. Unfortunately to get one the way I want it is a sticker of $50K Cdn, and there are no govt subsidies available here, so it is priced out of range. But the idea of an all-electric vehicle with the utility that seems to have would work well for me in retirement.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Now it's back with 14,000 more miles and an accident history for the same price they paid me 2 years ago. I'm almost tempted to call and ask for the story.
Now that's ironic that you happened to recognize that it was back. Reminds me I need to check VINs with the Ohio BMV to see if my two leSabres are still titled here. I miss those cars. Well, I miss the good memories but both were over 200K. I'd ridden those seats enough.

Actually I didn't know it was mine at first since they used a stock photo. Then I read the free CarFax and it showed the owner being in my home town and the milage matched. Wasn't until I checked the VIN that I was sure. Now it's eating at me because the CarFax says one owner. So who drove it 14k miles and busted it up?

On the LaSabres i wouldn't worry, at 200k miles you got your use out of them.

andres3 · August 2017

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:
2018 Buick LaCrosse (I miss my leSabre)

That new Buick is pretty nice looking. I guess they aren't on the road yet. I think I must have seen a Quattroport now that I think about it....it was quite low and very wide! I really thought it was a new Buick though.
They're stacked up like cordwood on dealer lots and GM holding pens. It's been out for a while, but isn't selling. I may have seen one or two on the roads but can't even be sure of that. Part of it is because it's too big and too expensive, though otherwise it is a good car except for the beer-tap shift lever. The fact that nobody can write a positive review of it without raising the old chestnut about aged Buick buyers and the usual mostly fictitious GM complaints probably doesn't help.

OK, I'll bite. What are the "usual" fictitious complaints about GM?

I just can't see someone taking the time to go out of there way to hurt a company unless that company hurt them first!

explorerx4 · August 2017

I keep my eye on homes for sale in Ohio.
With my daughter now being married and having a plan for kids, we'll probably move to be close.
Saw a nice house for sale asking 425k with a 5 car heated garage.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

Anyone know where GG's Cadillac is these days?

Ha ha I was going to say hell but that looks pretty close. :@

andres3 · August 2017

28firefighter said:
@oldfarmer50 - the challenge we are running into is parking space. If we choose to stay in our current home, a third car is a non-starter and we need two cars with 4 doors for as long as Sam remains in a car seat. If we move, we may be able to house a third car, but there is also a good chance we would not - although a 2-3 car garage is high on my priority list, the reality is if we move, number of bedrooms, location, condition and price will win out every time.

A Cayenne could be a good compromise. Or maybe not. Just spitballing.

A 2-door with a car seat in the back isn't as bad as you think. Wait until Sam is about 2 years old, and get a 2-door if that is what you want. At 2 years, he'll be not just walking, but also a very mobile toddler that can easily climb into and out of his own car seat. That means all you have to do is buckle him up in an awkward position with limited space; not the end of the world.

The end of the world would be having to pick them up and place them back there (and pick them up and out) over and over again if you don't wait until they're self-mobile.

andres3 · August 2017

https://priceonomics.com/is-every-speed-limit-too-low/

Michigan leads the way when it comes to speed limit laws in many ways. Faster is safer in many circumstances. Article above is a good read.

How to set speed limits:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-72297_30536_25802-87384--,00.html

fintail · August 2017

I wonder how long into Model 3 production the insane subsidy will run out, and if faux-eco crony capitalism will see it renewed.

Model 3 may technically start at 35K, but none will have that phantom MSRP.

fintail · August 2017

I like the "breeds disregard" mention in the MI pamphlet. Insane limits and obsessive enforcement has done just that, if not creating contempt, for laws and enforcers. If my local group would spend as much time on phone yappers, non-signalers, crosswalk violators, etc as they do on speed, we could pay the national debt.

andres3 said:
https://priceonomics.com/is-every-speed-limit-too-low/

Michigan leads the way when it comes to speed limit laws in many ways. Faster is safer in many circumstances. Article above is a good read.

How to set speed limits:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-72297_30536_25802-87384--,00.html

isellhondas · August 2017

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:
I feel like I've been through a wringer. (
I wish you a quick recovery. I hate to be a Pollyanna as miserable as you feel, but you could have broken
something in a fall like that and it doesn't sound like you have based on what you're saying. But don't
hesitate to get checked out if you question any possibility of more injury on elbows, arms. face, or legs. Guys our age have bones that crack instead of giving a little.

Example: My son fell on an uncleared driveway that sloped that was part of the sidewalk off campus after an ice storm on his way to class at Ohio State. He had a depressed area on part of the bone and a slight injury in another part of that bone in his arm like a partial crack. OSU sent him to a specialist off campus to have it reviewed, but no lasting damage beyond some aching for a few weeks. But he was 20 and bones were more flexible than ours.

At that time the lawyers had the Ohio legislature tied up because if someone does anything to relieve snow on their sidewalk, they are responsible for injury; if they do NOTHING to mitigate the danger from snow or ice, the owner has NO responsibility for a fall. So landlords around campus do nothing to help the snow or ice on sidewalks.

I don't know the layout of the curb where you fell and if it should have been marked with yellow, e.g.. I know I tripped over a curb on the side of a wheelchair ramp at a local fast market chain (UDF) and commented to the manager that the curb should be painted yellow.

It was a parking "stoop" - you know when you pull into a parking space down here, you pull into the spot and there is a concrete stump where your front tires lean against. I just wasn't paying attention as I walked in front of my car and tripped over the stump on the other lane. Went straight down.

I don't think I broke anything, but I am very bruised up. I take Eliquis and aspirin to thin my blood because I have a history of blood clots - so I am going to keep close tabs on my body to make sure I am not bleeding internally from an injury to an organ or something. Hopefully bed rest will cure me. If not, and I have severe pain or develop a fever (a sign of possible bleeding somewhere), I'll run over to the emergency room.

Wow, Mike....you didn't need this! It's amazing how quickly one can hurt themselves. It sounds like you're doing the right thing by taking it easy!

explorerx4 · August 2017

Michigan has some really rough roads. Maybe the state is in cahoots with the tire/wheel/suspension manufacturers.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2017

fintail said:
I wonder how long into Model 3 production the insane subsidy will run out, and if faux-eco crony capitalism will see it renewed.

Model 3 may technically start at 35K, but none will have that phantom MSRP.

I think Tesla-hungry buyers will have a long wait anyway. Competing in scale with GM, BMW and M-B is going to be very very difficult for Tesla.

andres3 · August 2017

fintail said:
I like the "breeds disregard" mention in the MI pamphlet. Insane limits and obsessive enforcement has done just that, if not creating contempt, for laws and enforcers. If my local group would spend as much time on phone yappers, non-signalers, crosswalk violators, etc as they do on speed, we could pay the national debt.

andres3 said:
https://priceonomics.com/is-every-speed-limit-too-low/

Michigan leads the way when it comes to speed limit laws in many ways. Faster is safer in many circumstances. Article above is a good read.

How to set speed limits:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-72297_30536_25802-87384--,00.html

On the extreme side you have people believing these urban city "Vision Zero" ideals are the best thing since sliced bread. 20 MPH has become the ultimate speed limit because according to the conventional wisdom "someone isn't likely to die if they are hit at 20 MPH instead of 25 MPH." Seems so wrong-headed, shouldn't the goal be to stop people from getting hit at all?

I'm telling you, one day, the speed limits will be changed to zero, which will effectively ban automobiles without outright outlawing them.

Don't give the anti-gun lobbies any ideas (like outlawing bullets).

andres3 · August 2017

fintail said:
I wonder how long into Model 3 production the insane subsidy will run out, and if faux-eco crony capitalism will see it renewed.

Model 3 may technically start at 35K, but none will have that phantom MSRP.

Maybe some Hertz premium line specials will opt for the $35K package.

driver100 · August 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
North Korea I hope.

You mean you would wish that car on Kim Jong-un ?

driver100 · August 2017

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

Anyone know where GG's Cadillac is these days?

Hilarious

thebean · August 2017

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

Anyone know where GG's Cadillac is these days?

Ah yes, the Cadillac Ranch in Amarillo. Go by it every time we go to Santa Fe. Normally a decent crowd out there taking pictures.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

28firefighter said:
@oldfarmer50 - the challenge we are running into is parking space. If we choose to stay in our current home, a third car is a non-starter and we need two cars with 4 doors for as long as Sam remains in a car seat. If we move, we may be able to house a third car, but there is also a good chance we would not - although a 2-3 car garage is high on my priority list, the reality is if we move, number of bedrooms, location, condition and price will win out every time.

A Cayenne could be a good compromise. Or maybe not. Just spitballing.

Well keep spitballing here. Personally I like spending other people's money so I will enable you if you want. For hard facts ask the experts here. They'll bring you back to earth.

imidazol97 · August 2017

isellhondas said:
It was a parking "stoop" - you know when you pull into a parking space down here, you pull into the spot and there is a concrete stump where your front tires lean against. I just wasn't paying attention as I walked in front of my car and tripped over the stump on the other lane.

We watched a lady walk over one of the concrete stop blocks at ChickFilA a couple years back. She went down like a rock. Scraped leg. Sat on a chair in the handicapped parking space for about 15 minutes before she decided to go on. Was leaving to go to Akron or somewhere for a ceremony or wedding or something with some other people. Tough luck to trip like that.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

fintail said:
I like the "breeds disregard" mention in the MI pamphlet. Insane limits and obsessive enforcement has done just that, if not creating contempt, for laws and enforcers. If my local group would spend as much time on phone yappers, non-signalers, crosswalk violators, etc as they do on speed, we could pay the national debt.

andres3 said:
https://priceonomics.com/is-every-speed-limit-too-low/

Michigan leads the way when it comes to speed limit laws in many ways. Faster is safer in many circumstances. Article above is a good read.

How to set speed limits:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-72297_30536_25802-87384--,00.html

Speaking of phone yappers today at the Meglo Mart my wife and I were held up by a woman who was backed half way out into the isle, backup lights on and stopped. I didn't want to try to go past her in case she suddenly started moving.

As I'm sitting there another woman walks past the first woman's car and looks over at me and mimes "on the phone". We both shook our heads as she continued to her car and I gingerly drove around the clueless talker.

explorerx4 · August 2017

28FF posts that he is thinking about a Cayenne, now I see an ad for a new one on the right side of my screen.

imidazol97 · August 2017

explorerx4 said:
Michigan has some really rough roads. Maybe the state is in cahoots with the tire/wheel/suspension manufacturers.

There's a stretch of road near Plymouth that was awful. Someone had put up a sign saying "Shock absorber test area." North Territorial Road.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/residents-frustrated-with-lack-of-solutions-for-pothole-ridden-north-territorial-road/

explorerx4 · August 2017

Ann Arbor is not exactly in the sticks or a depressed area.

28firefighter · August 2017

explorerx4 said:
28FF posts that he is thinking about a Cayenne, now I see an ad for a new one on the right side of my screen.

Here to help!

qbrozen · August 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Anyone know where GG's Cadillac is these days?

Ha ha I was going to say hell but that looks pretty close. :@

Ha! Hell was my first reaction, too.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

28firefighter said:

explorerx4 said:
28FF posts that he is thinking about a Cayenne, now I see an ad for a new one on the right side of my screen.
Here to help!

I get nothing but Toyota ads but after I posted that ad from Belleview Porsche the sidebar had a bunch of their ads for a day.

imidazol97 · August 2017

driver100 said:
Interesting comments. I saw a guy at the supermarket the other day, he was driving an older Buick. He backed out of his space, then went forward, not realizing he was on an end and there was a cement island in front of him. He rammed the front bumper right into the cement island. My wife asked me if I thought he was an older guy? I said, well it is a Buick, so my guess is I would bet on it. I saw the side view and he could barely see over the instrument panel, and he was a very senior citizen.

The new car looks nice, we know they are very reliable, it is big, and there is definitely an image problem.

If that driver had been driving a XYZ vehicle would the story have been interesting enough to retell? "I saw a driver in a few years old Mercedes pull forward and hit the cement island in front of him" and associate the car with his age and vision problems? Most likely not. That shows the effects of years of MSM in the auto writing mock and make fun of GM vehicles much like the other media folks do to try to place their opinions in the minds of the readers. I don't know how many magazine type articles I've read where they make cracks about the GM vehicle, because, just because they can.

The bias in the coverage still shows in how the 2016 Malibu was lower, lighter, and more fuel efficient and wider. Didn't hear much about it despite the sharp 2.0L turbo engine. Now two other vehicles are doing refreshes where one is using a platform from a smaller vehicle in the company and the other did a refresh and they are being praised because they're smaller and lighter. Despite decades of wanting everything to be bigger and praising increases in size and punishing the 2013 Gen 8 Malibu for being smaller, now smaller is the best thing since sliced bread since two other midsize vehicles are doing that... LOL

I just wish many more people would take a test drive of a higher end model in different GM brands, like Dr. Abacomike did of the Hyundai Genesis models, to see how they really are. That's much better than just reading or watching a car mag type program push their agenda on which vehicle you should like.

Driving a rental Fusion or Malibu most likely is not a good test. My Malibu has a tight suspension from its roots in Opal and with the 235x50x18 wheels it drives a lot different than a Malibu with the more normal size and brands of tires.

imidazol97 · August 2017

I checked the local Buick dealer stock of 2017 laCrosses, which look very similar to the red 2018 I pictured above. One larger store has 21 and the other has 17. I suspect that's a fairly normal number for those two stores. I don't see them "stacking up like deadwood."

I did see a huge spread of Nissans and toyotas at the local stores. I know that through June a high number of the car carriers northbound on I75 were camry's and the clone avalons. It looked like toyota was pumping them out as fast as they could from the Georgetown plant a hundred miles south probably to get as many out to the dealers to try to pump the numbers as high as possible to say they sold more camrys than brand model XXX.

Pushing them out to the dealers is how they pressure the dealers to sell them.

If I was at all interested in trading, I'd be overrun pulling in at the local Ford, toyota, Nissan stores. The camry store would have me surrounded by salespeople, same at the sister Hyundai store across the street, especially if I were in the Cobalt. Low sales. Big push.

Friend of ours had their camry 2014 in for service a couple months back. He just wandered the lot and his old salesman ended up selling him a new camry. He had no intention of trading a perfectly good, low mileage, 3-year old camry that he had bought used in 2015.

andres3 · August 2017

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:
Interesting comments. I saw a guy at the supermarket the other day, he was driving an older Buick. He backed out of his space, then went forward, not realizing he was on an end and there was a cement island in front of him. He rammed the front bumper right into the cement island. My wife asked me if I thought he was an older guy? I said, well it is a Buick, so my guess is I would bet on it. I saw the side view and he could barely see over the instrument panel, and he was a very senior citizen.

The new car looks nice, we know they are very reliable, it is big, and there is definitely an image problem.
If that driver had been driving a XYZ vehicle would the story have been interesting enough to retell? "I saw a driver in a few years old Mercedes pull forward and hit the cement island in front of him" and associate the car with his age and vision problems? Most likely not. That shows the effects of years of MSM in the auto writing mock and make fun of GM vehicles much like the other media folks do to try to place their opinions in the minds of the readers. I don't know how many magazine type articles I've read where they make cracks about the GM vehicle, because, just because they can.

The bias in the coverage still shows in how the 2016 Malibu was lower, lighter, and more fuel efficient and wider. Didn't hear much about it despite the sharp 2.0L turbo engine. Now two other vehicles are doing refreshes where one is using a platform from a smaller vehicle in the company and the other did a refresh and they are being praised because they're smaller and lighter. Despite decades of wanting everything to be bigger and praising increases in size and punishing the 2013 Gen 8 Malibu for being smaller, now smaller is the best thing since sliced bread since two other midsize vehicles are doing that... LOL

I just wish many more people would take a test drive of a higher end model in different GM brands, like Dr. Abacomike did of the Hyundai Genesis models, to see how they really are. That's much better than just reading or watching a car mag type program push their agenda on which vehicle you should like.

Driving a rental Fusion or Malibu most likely is not a good test. My Malibu has a tight suspension from its roots in Opal and with the 235x50x18 wheels it drives a lot different than a Malibu with the more normal size and brands of tires.

Perhaps they need to go back to inventing fake names for the rental fodder model configurations; such as CLASSIC for the base Malibu.

I always felt the low low low base trimmed Domestic models in the rental fleets hurt the image for sure. Either stop making them, raise minimum standards, or use the naming convention above to differentiate. I believe they did that with the Captiva too?

Another example is how the Mustang GT needs to be optioned up to $50K+ to be competitive with foreign rivals.

Shouldn't a GT V8 model already have all (or most) of those options as "Standard Equipment," or at least some of them thereby lowering the price across the board for everyone.

Seems if you get the V8 you should be forced to get the real deal; and they can still make cheap V6 or 4-bangers for the posers.

Then again Audi did sell some S4's without the sport rear differential, but probably a very low percentage.

explorerx4 · August 2017

Mustang has always been an 'Everyman' vehicle. You can move up or down the lineup as it suits you.
That glorified Rabbit, sold as a TT, has sold a whole 1318 units this year.
Mustang sales are down, 2018 available soon, but still outselling the TT 40 to 1.
TT global sales are higher, I'm sure.

oldfarmer50 · August 2017

imidazol97 said:
I checked the local Buick dealer stock of 2017 laCrosses, which look very similar to the red 2018 I pictured above. One larger store has 21 and the other has 17. I suspect that's a fairly normal number for those two stores. I don't see them "stacking up like deadwood."

I did see a huge spread of Nissans and toyotas at the local stores. I know that through June a high number of the car carriers northbound on I75 were camry's and the clone avalons. It looked like toyota was pumping them out as fast as they could from the Georgetown plant a hundred miles south probably to get as many out to the dealers to try to pump the numbers as high as possible to say they sold more camrys than brand model XXX.

Pushing them out to the dealers is how they pressure the dealers to sell them.

If I was at all interested in trading, I'd be overrun pulling in at the local Ford, toyota, Nissan stores. The camry store would have me surrounded by salespeople, same at the sister Hyundai store across the street, especially if I were in the Cobalt. Low sales. Big push.

Friend of ours had their camry 2014 in for service a couple months back. He just wandered the lot and his old salesman ended up selling him a new camry. He had no intention of trading a perfectly good, low mileage, 3-year old camry that he had bought used in 2015.

I'd have no trouble buying a GM vehicle assuming I had the money. My problem with all cars these days is the crazy high belt lines that compromise vision. On the positive side I'm enjoying using the Chevy Van as a grocery getter. High seating position and good all around visability is nice.

tbirdmarco · August 2017

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GGSr2LvoFZQ

ab348 · August 2017

This is a few months old but gives a picture of the inventory woes:

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/58a716d7a7ea431f3219b357/10-best-deals-on-overstoc/

fintail · August 2017

Every time I hear "Vision Zero", I roll my eyes so hard it disrupts the rotation of the Earth. Every moronic bleeding heart mayor and his infrastructure cronies are in on it now. Don't enforce distracted driving, signal, or crosswalk laws - it's the speed limits! Right.

andres3 said:

On the extreme side you have people believing these urban city "Vision Zero" ideals are the best thing since sliced bread. 20 MPH has become the ultimate speed limit because according to the conventional wisdom "someone isn't likely to die if they are hit at 20 MPH instead of 25 MPH." Seems so wrong-headed, shouldn't the goal be to stop people from getting hit at all?

I'm telling you, one day, the speed limits will be changed to zero, which will effectively ban automobiles without outright outlawing them.

Don't give the anti-gun lobbies any ideas (like outlawing bullets).

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