Mystery car pix

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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Personally, I never understood the square headlight craze. Whether Chrysler Cordoba, Ford Elite, Olds Cutlass Supreme, et. al. - I think they all looked better with the original round ones and feel even more that way in retrospect.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 269,197
    BMW 507

    Late '50s

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800
    berri said:
    Personally, I never understood the square headlight craze. Whether Chrysler Cordoba, Ford Elite, Olds Cutlass Supreme, et. al. - I think they all looked better with the original round ones and feel even more that way in retrospect.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I always fhought it had something to do with better lighting at the time. (?)

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  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    My driver's ed car never had square headlights. The Elite model ran from '74 to '76 all with round lights. Then in '77 it was morphed into the LTD II with the square lights.
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Oh, that's right. I wasn't a big LTD II fan though. Thought the Elite was nicer. But that's just me.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    berri said:

    Oh, that's right. I wasn't a big LTD II fan though. Thought the Elite was nicer. But that's just me.

    Me too. I recall reading at the time that square headlights would allow lower hood lines and better aerodynamics. But most restyled models looked tacked on and blocky.

    But then I saw the new Grand Prix. :)

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Stacked square headlights---the ultimate crime?


  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I certainly wouldn't argue B)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    And everyone did it. Even better when the front bumper is a park bench:

    image
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    So if you got the wagon, the tailgate was a chaise lounge chair B)
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    My dad's last "new" station wagon was actually a dealer demo 1978 Dodge Monaco station wagon in the same green on green colors as in the picture. But I don't think dad's car was the "Crestwood" model below because it didn't have the plastic wood on the sides. But his car did have one strip of fake wood on the tail gate with bright molding around it.

    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,470
    edited April 2018
    Headlights make an interesting historical story. Just prior to WWII twin sealed beams were adopted by the industry as a standard and were legislated eventually by the Feds IIRC. I think the rationale was that they provided a certain standard of illumination and were cheaper. In '57 quad sealed beams arrived and were adopted almost instantly once laws were amended to allow them. That was fine and within a short time all but the cheapest cars used those. Then in '72 GM - probably in an effort to save money as the bean counters liked to cheapen their cars up by that time - brings out the '73 intermediates and they went back to dual sealed beams. On a million units a year that probably did save them a bit of cash. But combined witht he 5mph bumpers the front ends of those cars never looked good IMO. So in '75 the industry came out with the rectangular quad sealed beams with the justification as stated above, it would give lower hoodlines, sleeker front ends, etc. Whether it actually did any of that is questionable. When you stack those that argument goes out the window anyway. That was followed up in short order by the awful twin rectangular sealed beams, which in my experience provided just lousy illumination.

    The odd thing is that the single biggest improvement in lighting during this time wasn't due to the shape of the light but by the introduction of halogens. I remember our '73 Volvo was our first car that came with halogen sealed beams and I could not believe the difference when driving at night, it was a revelation. Once it was legal to move to a separate bulb and headlight housing design in the '80s all bets were off. Some of those worked well, others were terrible. That still seems the case today.

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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,470

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I remember seeing "halogen lights" as some kind of cool feature advertised well into the 90s, I think.

    IMO the biggest light advancement is composite lights - possible in Europe from the late 50s onwards, but didn't take hold in lagging NA until well into the 80s. Today, Europe has more advanced LED and even laser lighting, which due to backwards "authorities" (sarcastic quotes) are not possible in the land of freedom and justice.
  • lostwrench1lostwrench1 Member Posts: 1,165
    1955 Willys Bermuda.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Also, what was unusual about it:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    Matra Bagheera, had 3-across seating.
    texases said:

    Also, what was unusual about it:

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Yep.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I should have made it clearer as it is even weirder, a pair of seats on the passenger side, and a single driver's seat. I think Matra did this on more than one vehicle:

    image
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,470
    Not as weird as this:



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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800
    so McLaren wasn't the first. Interesting.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    The white car is a Ferrari 365p, I think once owned by Luigi Chinetti - if you have to ask, you can't afford it - 8 figures without a doubt.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Speaking of headlights--take a guess on this one:


  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    I like the IP on the mystery car:

    And around 30 years later I liked this one too:
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,470
    That last one looks familiar:



    My (former) '79 Buick Electra Park Avenue.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,815
    A cyclops?

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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    1937-ish Tatra T87? The '[non-permissible content removed]-killer'?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2018
    Close but you know our rule--no prewar cars. :@

    OK, close enough. It's a Tatra 87 limousine, 1948, and you can see this car at the Louwman Museum in the Netherlands.

    Gold Star.

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Besides that era Buick, I thought the similar Bonneville also had a nice dash layout.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    Those two spoke frowny late 70s Buick steering wheels kind of rub me the wrong way, although I guess that keeps the spokes out of your line of sight.

    I think from the front, pre and postwar Tatra 87s are identical, while they gained a rear window postwar, along with losing the cool Buck Rogers-esque central rear fin. I have seen a number of them in European museums.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I keep waiting for Fantasy Junction to get one. I think they'd let me drive it if it wasn't buried in inventory.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I think they are worth low six figures anyway now, probably a premium for a prewar model.

    The Tatra 77 is the one that gets me going, just a crazy thing. I think I have seen 2 in museums.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 269,197
    The Lane Motor Museum has 22 Tatras... :s

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, somewhere around $100K--$135K for a nice, but not necessarily, "show" example.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    ab348 said:

    That last one looks familiar:



    My (former) '79 Buick Electra Park Avenue.

    I liked all the GM full sized cars that were downsized for '77 but the Buick was my favorite.

    And there's something intriguing about a museum with 22 Tatras in Nashville...
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I wonder what a 77 would go for these days. At least a few times that, I bet.
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Yes, somewhere around $100K--$135K for a nice, but not necessarily, "show" example.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,675

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,815
    MG-C GT? The one with the V8. Guessing that from hood bulge. Late 60s

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 269,197
    stickguy said:

    MG-C GT? The one with the V8. Guessing that from hood bulge. Late 60s

    Did it have a V-8? I thought it was a big 6, in comparison to the normal 4-cylinder.

    You have the model right, though.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,815
    Ill take that. Close enough for me.

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  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,675
    edited April 2018
    kyfdx said:

    stickguy said:

    MG-C GT? The one with the V8. Guessing that from hood bulge. Late 60s

    Did it have a V-8? I thought it was a big 6, in comparison to the normal 4-cylinder.

    You have the model right, though.
    TheMG-C did have a big inline-6, the same three litre that powered the Healey 3000, and the hood bump was needed to clear the motor which was taller and longer than the MG 4.



    Various NHTSA requirements for 1968 doomed the big Healey, an old design with roots in the mid 50s so the planners at BMC came up with the idea of putting the motor into MGs. Confusion arises because in 1973 the MG-V8 was introduced featuring the ubiquitous Buick-Rover aluminum 35000cc V8 which was lighter than the four and so compact that the hoodline stayed the same.



    The MG-V8 was never officially exported to the US.

    Another version was the MG-RV8 introduced in 1993 which featured a 3.9 liter version of the Rover V8. Most were produced in Japan for the JDM with the remainder presumably going to the British markets. The RV8 has a small hood bump and a reshaped lines.





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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    kyfdx said:

    stickguy said:

    MG-C GT? The one with the V8. Guessing that from hood bulge. Late 60s

    Did it have a V-8? I thought it was a big 6, in comparison to the normal 4-cylinder.

    You have the model right, though.
    Yes a straight-6 engine. There were MGB V-8s built, using the Buick V-8 further developed by Rover, but no MGC V8s. Those used a 2.9 engine, not related to the Healey as is sometimes speculated.

    There are no factory built left-hand-drive MGB V8s.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,470
    I remember reading the C&D test of the MGC at the time. They hated it. One of the comments was something like "it feels like they found a good deal on a supply of millstones and attached them to the flywheel" or words to that effect in reference to its unwillingness to rev.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The press was *brutal* to the MGC. It's really not deserved. It's a decent car to drive, if a bit nose heavy. Yeah, it's a lazy engine.

    Ironically, the V-8 engine in the MGB V8 weighed less than the 4 cylinder it replaced !
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,237
    The Rover / MG V8 was such a good engine- it beats me why Buick didn't use it over there - it was capable of considerable tuning, light and flexible - Best thing Rover ever did was getting the rights (for virtually nothing) to that engine.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It was a good engine but it had its teething problems. Rover refined it considerably.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,675
    Mr_Shiftright said:


    You have the model right, though.

    Yes a straight-6 engine. There were MGB V-8s built, using the Buick V-8 further developed by Rover, but no MGC V8s. Those used a 2.9 engine, not related to the Healey as is sometimes speculated.

    There are no factory built left-hand-drive MGB V8s.

    So you're saying the six in the MG-C was not the Healey six? I Wonder why BMC had a 2.5l six in the Triumphs and a different 2.9 in the MGs. :o

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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Didn't they also develop the (bad) Triumph V8 while having access to the Buick V8?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, don't get me started on all the dumb stuff British Leyland did back then! :@

    Yes, they had access to the Buick/Rover V8 but decided to build their own abomination of a V8 for the Stag.

    No, they didn't use the Healey Big Six, they used an engine from the Leyland sedans.

    The MGB could out accelerate the MGC, too, until BL changed the rear end ratio on the C to compensate for the embarrassment.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,675

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

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