Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Have you recently tried to purchase a new vehicle after being out of the market for a while and found that prices were much higher than you expected? A reporter would like to talk to you; please reach out to [email protected] by 1/20 for more details.
Did you get a great deal? Let us know in the Values & Prices Paid section!
Meet your fellow owners in our Owners Clubs

Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

1176717681770177217732049

Comments

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,703
    EX-IN-LAWS bought a $1xx,xxx RV some years back under the auspices of traveling the country upon retirement. It was very nice...couple of bedrooms, kitchen, shower, toilet, TV, etc.

    They would drive down to FL in the winter and stay parked at some trailer park. Ex and I would take care of their home here while they were gone. That lasted about 2 years.

    Gas, maintenance, insurance, staying in camp parks (which weren’t necessarily all that nice based on the pictures I saw), maintenance, still buying food and spending every night in lawn chairs in front of the RV wasn’t all as great as they originally thought.

    Ex and I helped them drive down to FL that 2nd year. We stayed in the RV along the way. It was a “pig” to drive (although easier than I originally thought). No way I’d do it ever again.

    They sold it the 3rd year they had it and bought a condo in FL where they ended up going every winter and were much happier as a result.

    That said, they met some......”interesting” people while RV-ing. Seems like it’s the same as buying a boat. Love it the day you buy it and love it when you sell it. In between??????

    I think you’re really into that sort of thing it makes sense. Can’t see the economics being one of the things you would like, though.

    You’d have to stay in it year round. And even then, I think the economics are dubious, at best!
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,577
    edited March 2019
    venture said:



    I got one of those last week from my Subaru dealer. They offered to let me go from my 2018 Legacy to a 2019 Legacy for only an additional $50, or so, a month. They never mention the additional 18 months of payments. How nice of them. :)

    This is nothing. Back in the day my BMW dealer kept sending me amazing deals to switch from my then 2011 wagon to outgoing then 2016 with lower monthly payments. Wow!!. Did I mention i had two lpayments eft at the time and the amazing offer was for 5 years :wink: ? The things marketing people would say with a straight face...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,577
    edited March 2019

    IIRC, car sales are down.........dealers are getting desperate to move some metal.
    But late model used car values also plummeted. I looked up on my 4-series. It’s less than 2 years old and trade value is about half, number more common for three years old cars. I think it’s a general automotive slowdown, whoever wanted a car, got one, the manufacturers got overly bullish in the late stage, as they always do, they overpriduced. The slowdown was due even sooner, but Harvey’s floods postponed that, as large number of insurance replacements added demand and removed used car supply for a little while. Then rate hikes did the rest. Suddenly not much of zero percent, you get lucky with subsidized 1.9% with market rate closer to 3.5% for top tier credit. BMW really backed off their lease subsidies, lowered residuals, raised money factors, making proverbial $399 leases pretty much thing of a past, unless you pay upfront some ungodly amount. They even dropped the multiple security deposit program, which was surprising to me.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,983
    bwia said:

    On its first day of trading yesterday, LYFT closed at $78.29, an increase of $6.29 or 8.74%. Uber meanwhile is planning its own IPO which is expected to generate even more buzz. This begs the question: why would someone invest in these ride-sharing companies whose business models will never generate a profit?

    Is it optimism or illusion? Or are they following the playbook of Amazon, Facebook, Tesla, and others who operated for years without making a profit but made millionaires of ordinary and casual investors who had faith in them. I am not quite ready to write off Lyft or Uber, but I will wait until their valuations drop from their nose-bleed highs.

    I think it’s called ‘The Greater Fool’ theory.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,983
    edited March 2019
    dino001 said:


    IIRC, car sales are down.........dealers are getting desperate to move some metal.
    But late model used car values also plummeted. I looked up on my 4-series. It’s less than 2 years old and trade value is about half, number more common for three years old cars. I think it’s a general automotive slowdown, whoever wanted a car, got one, the manufacturers got overly bullish in the late stage, as they always do, they overpriduced. The slowdown was due even sooner, but Harvey’s floods postponed that, as large number of insurance replacements added demand and removed used car supply for a little while. Then rate hikes did the rest. Suddenly not much of zero percent, you get lucky with subsidized 1.9% with market rate closer to 3.5% for top tier credit. BMW really backed off their lease subsidies, lowered residuals, raised money factors, making proverbial $399 leases pretty much thing of a past, unless you pay upfront some ungodly amount. They even dropped the multiple security deposit program, which was surprising to me.



    That’s amazing. Do BMWs typically depreciate that fast? I thought they held up better. Edmunds says my Ford’s trade in value is about 2/3 of what I paid for it. Maybe I can trade it even for a 4 series. :)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019
    Michaell said:

    Just got a come on down solicitation from the Ford dealer where I bought the Mustang in 2015. Wonder why they tried that only two weeks after I bought a new car elsewhere. Do they subscribe to new DMV registration listings and give it a try in case you have buyer’s remorse?

    I get regular emails from both the Subaru and VW dealerships.

    The Subaru dealer really wants me to trade in our cream puff 2015 Outback for a 2019 Outback (outgoing model, now - new redesigned Outback expected for 2020). Latest offer suggests I can get the exact same car for more than $200/mo less than I'm paying now.

    VW emailed me today, excitedly telling me that not only are they offering a "sign then drive" promotion (basically $0 drive off, even the first payment is covered), they will also waive up to 3 of my remaining lease payments (I've got 4 left).

    Problem is, the wife likes the Outback too much to let it go, and it's looking more and more likely that the VW will get returned at the end of the lease, and not get replaced.
    Actually it sounds like a plan. I’m a fan of the now NOT offered diesel engines 1.9 L, 2.0 L, 3.0 L,. I’m not so much of a fan of the VW gas engine products. Having said that, Subaru is not on my products to buy list.

    Every new car, (Subaru included) should be able to go 100,000 to 150,000 with no issues. (aka., first major tune up) my mileage horizons are 2nd major tune up & ...beyond.

    Since Scotty & his video’s are hate to love, love to hate, I’ll leave it to folks to google a Subaru/ Toyota 400,000 unit recall for engine parts.
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575
    driver100 said:

    Just got a come on down solicitation from the Ford dealer where I bought the Mustang in 2015. Wonder why they tried that only two weeks after I bought a new car elsewhere. Do they subscribe to new DMV registration listings and give it a try in case you have buyer’s remorse?

    Complete coincidence....I don't think there is a Ford comparable to a Soul.
    Yeah, actually there is. The EcoSport. Note that I am not saying it compares favorably, just that it is in the same ball park as the Kia Soul.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,810
    I am still getting mail from the Nissan dealer about trading out of my leased Highlander early. Will be tough though, since I don't have the car to give them...

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019

    dino001 said:


    IIRC, car sales are down.........dealers are getting desperate to move some metal.
    But late model used car values also plummeted. I looked up on my 4-series. It’s less than 2 years old and trade value is about half, number more common for three years old cars. I think it’s a general automotive slowdown, whoever wanted a car, got one, the manufacturers got overly bullish in the late stage, as they always do, they overpriduced. The slowdown was due even sooner, but Harvey’s floods postponed that, as large number of insurance replacements added demand and removed used car supply for a little while. Then rate hikes did the rest. Suddenly not much of zero percent, you get lucky with subsidized 1.9% with market rate closer to 3.5% for top tier credit. BMW really backed off their lease subsidies, lowered residuals, raised money factors, making proverbial $399 leases pretty much thing of a past, unless you pay upfront some ungodly amount. They even dropped the multiple security deposit program, which was surprising to me.

    That’s amazing. Do BMWs typically depreciate that fast? I thought they held up better. Edmunds says my Ford’s trade in value is about 2/3 of what I paid for it. Maybe I can trade it even for a 4 series. :)

    Indeed! For as long as I have been following them, they depreciate fast & hard. The 7 series seems to have one of the worst drop rates. So if you are a new car buyer that’s the bad news. The good news is for USED.

    I have a friend that loves to buy used BMWs. Indeed he has 4. His garage has ALL the tools, even an installed 4 point adjustable 10,000 # lift.

    I’m a fan of the I-6 Diesel engine & together & separately the 8 speed transmission.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    ab348 said:

    bwia said:


    Is it optimism or illusion? Or are they following the playbook of Amazon, Facebook, Tesla, and others who operated for years without making a profit but made millionaires of ordinary and casual investors who had faith in them. I am not quite ready to write off Lyft or Uber, but I will wait until their valuations drop from their nose-bleed highs.

    It seems everyone has forgotten what happened around 2000 when the first tech bubble burst. Made a lot of techie types rich if they got out in time despite most of the companies they started never amounting to much.
    Don't say "Wall Street"-----say "Casino".... and it all falls into place.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019

    ab348 said:

    bwia said:


    Is it optimism or illusion? Or are they following the playbook of Amazon, Facebook, Tesla, and others who operated for years without making a profit but made millionaires of ordinary and casual investors who had faith in them. I am not quite ready to write off Lyft or Uber, but I will wait until their valuations drop from their nose-bleed highs.

    It seems everyone has forgotten what happened around 2000 when the first tech bubble burst. Made a lot of techie types rich if they got out in time despite most of the companies they started never amounting to much.
    Don't say "Wall Street"-----say "Casino".... and it all falls into place.
    Indeed! It’s not about initial profits as noted. There are more millionaires (billionaires also) in the world today than ever before. Even (our) poor have cell phones (better than mine) & $200 sneakers, Medicaid, Medicare, non retirement SS benefits, etc.

    It’s actually easier to lose & MAKE monies. The hyper (chicken little) 24/7 news delivery can cause a figurative and literal avalanche where there was none & heavy thick snow.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,747
    carnaught said:

    driver100 said:

    stickguy said:

    Driver, you sure your stomach isn't actually bigger than your chest?

    If your wife took a picture of you from knee level, and if you were wearing a shiny skin tight shirt, it would make your stomach look like it bulges out too. I guess I will have to post some other pictures of me from other angles.
    Be sure to update your Photoshop first!

    Good idea. I can stretch the picture longer. In this one I cut out the top half because it was just sky...I may have widened it accidentally at that time....ha ha

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,830
    edited March 2019
    @driver100, if you use Photoshop to stretch the picture vertically, it will flatten the tummy :smile: .
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,040
    "I’m a fan of the now NOT offered diesel engines 1.9 L, 2.0 L, 3.0 L,."
    And the reason for that is?
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019

    "I’m a fan of the now NOT offered diesel engines 1.9 L, 2.0 L, 3.0 L,."
    And the reason for that is?

    For like models and not having to modify; better TORQUE, better fuel mileage, cheaper CPMD: fuel, 30,000 miles OCI’s, less oil consumption.

    For apples to oranges comparison :

    My 5.8 L PUG makes 385 # ft & @ higher rpm. Worst fuel mileage

    My 3.0 L TDI ULSD makes 406 # ft. & @ lower rpm. Better fuel mileage
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,040
    No, the reason they are not offered for sale.
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019

    No, the reason they are not offered for sale.

    My take? Or the PARTY LINES? If it is the party lines, then yes sir, yes sir ! (3 bags full)😱😉😜
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    They aren't offered for sale because.....ta-da,,,people don't buy them.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,040
    How about illegal?
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,983
    henryn said:

    driver100 said:

    Just got a come on down solicitation from the Ford dealer where I bought the Mustang in 2015. Wonder why they tried that only two weeks after I bought a new car elsewhere. Do they subscribe to new DMV registration listings and give it a try in case you have buyer’s remorse?

    Complete coincidence....I don't think there is a Ford comparable to a Soul.
    Yeah, actually there is. The EcoSport. Note that I am not saying it compares favorably, just that it is in the same ball park as the Kia Soul.
    I’ve driven both and of the two I’d take the Soul. EcoSport isn’t bad but it costs thousands more and I don’t like the interior ergonomics as much. If it was just me, the Ford would be acceptable but I needed something for my wife and the Soul delivered better.

    The EcoSport wins in gas mileage hands down. Don’t remember exactly but I’m thinking by at least 10 mpg.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,998
    Pilot doing spring clean up hauling duty.  Our girls enjoy the end result.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,040
    Took my truck in for service today.
    $56 for oil change/tire rotation/fluid top offs.
    Pretty disappointed in what is available.(Ford dealer).
    They need some new models very soon.
    I know there is stuff in the pipeline.
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,802
    VW knocked out the little wind left in the sails. I'll wager diesel MB passenger cars are gone for good here.

    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,692
    dino001 said:
    IIRC, car sales are down.........dealers are getting desperate to move some metal.
    But late model used car values also plummeted. I looked up on my 4-series. It’s less than 2 years old and trade value is about half, number more common for three years old cars. I think it’s a general automotive slowdown, whoever wanted a car, got one, the manufacturers got overly bullish in the late stage, as they always do, they overpriduced. The slowdown was due even sooner, but Harvey’s floods postponed that, as large number of insurance replacements added demand and removed used car supply for a little while. Then rate hikes did the rest. Suddenly not much of zero percent, you get lucky with subsidized 1.9% with market rate closer to 3.5% for top tier credit. BMW really backed off their lease subsidies, lowered residuals, raised money factors, making proverbial $399 leases pretty much thing of a past, unless you pay upfront some ungodly amount. They even dropped the multiple security deposit program, which was surprising to me.
    Half of what? MSRP? Figuring discount and rebates, I got about 30% off mine, so a 20% drop beyond that in 2 yrs doesn’t seem so bad.

    BTW, BMW brought back MSDs recently.

    '19 Ioniq plug-in, '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 50-car history and counting!

  • sb55sb55 On an Island in VermontPosts: 445
    fintail said:

    VW knocked out the little wind left in the sails. I'll wager diesel MB passenger cars are gone for good here.


    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.

    I really like our 5 series diesel. Too bad that they aren't being sold here anymore. It is comfortable, quick and gets great mileage. It's got 78K miles on it, but we bought an extended service plan good to 100K miles, so I think that we will keep it until then.

    2007 Miata PRHT, 2014 BMW 535d X-drive, 2017 Chevy Silverado LTZ Ext. cab with 6.2 V-8

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,983
    Explain this to me.

    Do different EVs have different charging technology? Tesla is complaining that NY is discriminating against them as they build public charging stations. NY gives a discount on the electricity to Tesla’s competitors but not Tesla. In the article I read there was mention of several different non-compatible kinds of charging mechanisms for various manufacturers. In order to get the discount Tesla is being required to make their charging stations compatible with competitors cars but the competitors aren’t required to make their stations compatible with Tesla.

    Does this make sense to anyone? The only thing that I understand is that NY is screwing things up again.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,983
    In other news:

    Driver100 will be happy to see what Tim Hortons has waiting for him once he returns home.


    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 11,610
    If he has too many of those, none of his shirts will fit.

    On second thought, maybe we should all chip in, pass the hat, and buy him a few dozen. B)

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,665
    Explain this to me. Do different EVs have different charging technology? Tesla is complaining that NY is discriminating against them as they build public charging stations. NY gives a discount on the electricity to Tesla’s competitors but not Tesla. In the article I read there was mention of several different non-compatible kinds of charging mechanisms for various manufacturers. In order to get the discount Tesla is being required to make their charging stations compatible with competitors cars but the competitors aren’t required to make their stations compatible with Tesla. Does this make sense to anyone? The only thing that I understand is that NY is screwing things up again.
    Standardization is a means of providing goods and services to consumers as well as manufacturers economically and efficiently.  Without standardization, things would be chaotic.

    As an example, if gasoline pumps/nozzles  had to fit a myriad of filler lips/pipes on different cars, it would be impossible to meet the needs of all customers.  Thus, gasoline filler lips/pipes are mandated to be a specific size/diameter on all cars sold in the US.  

    Another example would be the be the height of all overpasses on all US interstates.  Thus, so long as a semi’s trailer is below a certain height, the trailer will not impact the bottom of the overpass.

    In this case, 10 manufacturers of EV’s meet the standards set by the State of New York to receive a special discount at electric charging stations.  Thus, in order to realize the rebate or reduced cost, the charging cable “plug” must be of a specific standardized shape and size and be able to accept electric current in the standardized format.  Since only Tesla does not meet that requirement, its cars and SUV’s will not be provided for at State regulated stations.  It behooves Tesla to then manufacturer their cars so they meet the standards set by the State.

    But Tesla is building their own charging stations to meet the requirements of ONLY their products and will not be capable of charging other manufacturers’s vehicles.  So New York would have to install special meters on each Tesla charging station to meet the needs of Tesla owners only - not the EV population at large.

    So in my opinion, New York is not prejudicial to Tesla owners or Tesla itself.  All New York is requiring is that Tesla meet its standards for charging stations it meters.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,577
    edited March 2019

    Half of what? MSRP? Figuring discount and rebates, I got about 30% off mine, so a 20% drop beyond that in 2 yrs doesn’t seem so bad.

    BTW, BMW brought back MSDs recently.
    I wasn’t so lucky, my discount wasn’t so generous. I’m saying trade in value is about half of what I paid less than 2 years ago. I was a bit early, the sales were just dropping, but nowhere near what happened later. Give or take, not calculating precise percentages, but I paid nearly close to 50k OTD and would likely get less than 25k at trade if wanted to get a new one. Of course, the value should not be dropping as fast for next couple of years, but used car values are lower than before, it seems. The market is saturated.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,703

    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.

    Diesels were barely alive in North AMerica before the scandals. Now, the last nails have been hammered on their coffins. I can’t see them ever being viable here with electrics starting to make some serious inroads.

    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,404
    abacomike said:



    Explain this to me.

    Do different EVs have different charging technology? Tesla is complaining that NY is discriminating against them as they build public charging stations. NY gives a discount on the electricity to Tesla’s competitors but not Tesla. In the article I read there was mention of several different non-compatible kinds of charging mechanisms for various manufacturers. In order to get the discount Tesla is being required to make their charging stations compatible with competitors cars but the competitors aren’t required to make their stations compatible with Tesla.

    Does this make sense to anyone? The only thing that I understand is that NY is screwing things up again.

    Standardization is a means of providing goods and services to consumers as well as manufacturers economically and efficiently.  Without standardization, things would be chaotic.

    As an example, if gasoline pumps/nozzles  had to fit a myriad of filler lips/pipes on different cars, it would be impossible to meet the needs of all customers.  Thus, gasoline filler lips/pipes are mandated to be a specific size/diameter on all cars sold in the US.  

    Another example would be the be the height of all overpasses on all US interstates.  Thus, so long as a semi’s trailer is below a certain height, the trailer will not impact the bottom of the overpass.

    In this case, 10 manufacturers of EV’s meet the standards set by the State of New York to receive a special discount at electric charging stations.  Thus, in order to realize the rebate or reduced cost, the charging cable “plug” must be of a specific standardized shape and size and be able to accept electric current in the standardized format.  Since only Tesla does not meet that requirement, its cars and SUV’s will not be provided for at State regulated stations.  It behooves Tesla to then manufacturer their cars so they meet the standards set by the State.

    But Tesla is building their own charging stations to meet the requirements of ONLY their products and will not be capable of charging other manufacturers’s vehicles.  So New York would have to install special meters on each Tesla charging station to meet the needs of Tesla owners only - not the EV population at large.

    So in my opinion, New York is not prejudicial to Tesla owners or Tesla itself.  All New York is requiring is that Tesla meet its standards for charging stations it meters.

    Mike, I agree with you, but a strong case can be made for Tesla. Since they first to market with a succesful EV, their electric outlet became the defacto standard. As such, Tesla should not be penalized but rather should be rewarded for their innovation.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,032

    In other news:

    Driver100 will be happy to see what Tim Hortons has waiting for him once he returns home.


    This is a time that @driver100 can't comment back. He's in the air.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,665
    In other news: Driver100 will be happy to see what Tim Hortons has waiting for him once he returns home.
    This is a time that @driver100 can't comment back. He's in the air.
    In the air or “full” of air?  😛🤪😜😋

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,665
    My daughter just landed at PBI.  Having dinner with her on Tuesday.  She is staying with her boyfriend in North Palm Beach.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    edited March 2019

    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.

    Diesels were barely alive in North AMerica before the scandals. Now, the last nails have been hammered on their coffins. I can’t see them ever being viable here with electrics starting to make some serious inroads.

    If you combine all "light duty" diesel sales in the U.S., they outsell either EVs or Hybrids.

    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/01/15/1694607/0/en/NAIAS-U-S-Diesel-Vehicle-Sales-Continue-Upward-Despite-Headwinds.html

    Ideally, diesel engines should only go into big sedans--that's where they would be the most efficient in a lb-per-mpg ratio. That is, after all, how Mercedes captured a pretty nice little chunk of the American market for their diesels in the 70s and 80s.

    The problem is, Americans equate diesels with trucks or industrial engines.

    Ironically, we find diesel engines in some very high end pleasure craft.

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575

    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.

    Diesels were barely alive in North AMerica before the scandals. Now, the last nails have been hammered on their coffins. I can’t see them ever being viable here with electrics starting to make some serious inroads.

    While I am not fond of cheating, and I am definitely not in favor of air pollution, I have to say that I enjoyed owning that TDI Passat. And I wouldn't mind owning another one.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,983
    edited March 2019

    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.

    Diesels were barely alive in North AMerica before the scandals. Now, the last nails have been hammered on their coffins. I can’t see them ever being viable here with electrics starting to make some serious inroads.

    If you combine all "light duty" diesel sales in the U.S., they outsell either EVs or Hybrids.

    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/01/15/1694607/0/en/NAIAS-U-S-Diesel-Vehicle-Sales-Continue-Upward-Despite-Headwinds.html

    Ideally, diesel engines should only go into big sedans--that's where they would be the most efficient in a lb-per-mpg ratio. That is, after all, how Mercedes captured a pretty nice little chunk of the American market for their diesels in the 70s and 80s.

    The problem is, Americans equate diesels with trucks or industrial engines.

    Ironically, we find diesel engines in some very high end pleasure craft.

    The extra pollution controls required on diesels may scare people off as well. The DEF systems require drivers to fill up two tanks instead of one. My school buses were serviced by the shop so no biggie but the other day I had to fuel a Ram diesel and saw a separate DEF port next to the fuel. If that DEF tank had been empty I’m not sure if the station would have had any. There certainly wasn’t a dedicated nozzle for it. In any event it would have required that I go hunting for it while a gas engined counterpart would be off cruising down the road.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well DEF is no more inconvenient than hunting for a charging station for your EV, which might be full-up, or might require that you hang around for 30-60 minutes. Everything has trade-offs, even if people try to explain them away.

    And who's going to fix your EV motors or circuitry when it's out of warranty?

    Answer: Good luck with that. Stick to leasing in that case.






  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,983

    Well DEF is no more inconvenient than hunting for a charging station for your EV, which might be full-up, or might require that you hang around for 30-60 minutes. Everything has trade-offs, even if people try to explain them away.

    And who's going to fix your EV motors or circuitry when it's out of warranty?

    Answer: Good luck with that. Stick to leasing in that case.






    EVs are a whole different level of worry. Not for the faint of heart.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019
    ab348 said:

    bwia said:


    Is it optimism or illusion? Or are they following the playbook of Amazon, Facebook, Tesla, and others who operated for years without making a profit but made millionaires of ordinary and casual investors who had faith in them. I am not quite ready to write off Lyft or Uber, but I will wait until their valuations drop from their nose-bleed highs.

    It seems everyone has forgotten what happened around 2000 when the first tech bubble burst. Made a lot of techie types rich if they got out in time despite most of the companies they started never amounting to much.
    NO! Not at all. Technology investors should know & understand the RISKS. It has been that way since technology stocks have hit stock markets.

    VC types (much earlier in the cycle) know (before) normally that the MAJORITY of companies they invest in will NOT be the next AMZ, FB, TSLA, etc.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019

    When did diesels become illegal? Well, I guess the ones not certified are.

    Diesel passenger cars are dead in America. Deal with it, I say.

    Diesels were barely alive in North AMerica before the scandals. Now, the last nails have been hammered on their coffins. I can’t see them ever being viable here with electrics starting to make some serious inroads.

    If you combine all "light duty" diesel sales in the U.S., they outsell either EVs or Hybrids.

    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/01/15/1694607/0/en/NAIAS-U-S-Diesel-Vehicle-Sales-Continue-Upward-Despite-Headwinds.html

    Ideally, diesel engines should only go into big sedans--that's where they would be the most efficient in a lb-per-mpg ratio. That is, after all, how Mercedes captured a pretty nice little chunk of the American market for their diesels in the 70s and 80s.

    The problem is, Americans equate diesels with trucks or industrial engines.

    Ironically, we find diesel engines in some very high end pleasure craft.

    While I’ve been happy with the diesel engines (1.9 L, 2.0 L, 2.1 L, 3.0 L) mentioned in another post, 4.0 L, 5.0 L twin turbo diesels in compact to mid size CUV would be totally SWEET!

    If new diesels do not hit the USA markets, putting on at least 300,000 miles to 400,000 miles on the MB GLK 250 BT & getting used diesels are the plans.

    Not to bore the majority of non-diesel car users, but there will be a huge shift to already huge shifts in barrels of oil products... Among other reasons per barrel, diesel is actually more profitable than gasoline. Keep in mind per 42 gal barrel of oil, 10 gals of diesel to 20 gals of gasoline.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    That type of thinking only makes sense to people who are going to keep their MB GLK 250 for 30 years.

    Diesel economics makes no sense to most Americans unless they are towing something.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019

    That type of thinking only makes sense to people who are going to keep their MB GLK 250 for 30 years.

    Diesel economics makes no sense to most Americans unless they are towing something.

    I would tend to agree, I mean if you really think about it, 30 years (my case- 300,000 miles to 540,000 miles) can mean anywhere from 6 to 3 cars (more-less) VS...1 (one) CUV. While the overwhelming majority (most folks) do not run the #’s numbers on 6 to 3 cars, more or less, I anticipate $.06375/.04722per mile driven: depreciation OVER 400,000-540,000 miles.. Oh.... the high price of the LUX name plate.😱👍😜

    Current local MB GLC 300 4 MATIC lease is $.7484 per mile driven (depreciation) (aka SMALL PRINT, lease disclaimer gasoline, current iteration) VS ownership, the bank breaking $.04722 per mile driven depreciation.😎😴

    Anybody can do the math to see how much cheaper one is over 540,000 miles: leases are $404,136 vs ownership $25,500🤑😱😉
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,040
    @riking1,
    Where are you located? Here, East Coast USA, it's not April 1st for another 7 hours or so.
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2019

    @riking1,
    Where are you located? Here, East Coast USA, it's not April 1st for another 7 hours or so.

    Yes ! It’s not 1 Apr 2019 for app 10 hrs. But like Shiftright said, DIESEL economics make NO sense TO most Americans ! ? 👍😜😎🤑

    OMG Look @ this! $76,000 to $96,000?
  • ventureventure Central PAPosts: 1,473
    The hunt begins.

    Took Mrs. Venture out to look at a replacement for her '15 Forester.

    Looked at the Honda CR-V and HR-V. She didn't respond other than a few of her friends have CR-V's and have had problems with them. Didn't know what problems and very doubtful she will find out.

    She seemed a little interested in the VW Tiguan, especially that you can get a third row seat (for the 3 times a year when it would be nice to have).

    She asked if the Forester offers a third row seat so there still seems to be interest in Subaru. I told her if she decides on an Outback she should wait for the 2020's and the new platform.

    All in all, the trip was underwhelming. About what I expected. More some other day. It was cold and snowing. Grrrrr.

    2020 Ascent, 2018 Legacy 3.6R

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,810
    any reason in particular that you are looking to replace a 2015 already? Especially when you have 2 other cars on hand. Just like spares?

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,040
    Spare vehicles are good. although in the next 5-6 months I an going to think about going down one.
    Just don't seem to be driving as much.
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
Sign In or Register to comment.