Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy · January 13

Sneaky. Get someone in with sticker shock on an RX, then slide them over to be dazzled by getting into a Porsche for $20k less!

xwesx · January 13

breld said:

xwesx said:

breld said:
The reality is VW will likely be able to identify the issue and make an appropriate repair. But it'll be hard to eliminate the apprehension and fear of "when is it going to happen again."
How did the failed clutch result in a stranding? Did it somehow get stuck in a position to disengage the transmission? If not, she could still drive and shift the car as long as she didn't come to a complete stop. It is tricky, but quite doable.
For lack of better words, the clutch pedal was stuck to the floor and couldn’t be disengaged. So the car was effectively in neutral.

The vehicle is at the dealership and I’ll anxiously await their call tomorrow. I’m ready to let them know that my wife has been driving for 35 years and has owned more manuals than automatics - clearly this wasn’t driver error and while I understand the need to ask the question, I sincerely hope they don’t try to go down that road.

Oh, no. I don't doubt that there was a serious problem! I was thinking, by the description, that the linkage had separated or some other issue, like a loss of hydraulic pressure, that perhaps caused the pedal to fail. If the shift fork/clutch plate/etc froze and there was just no engagement, she was SOL out there.

xwesx · January 13

graphicguy said:

Yes....got a Stinger a couple of weeks ago.

Nice; congrats! Don't forget to update that signature line.

xwesx · January 13

jmonroe said:

xwesx said:

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:
This is my first Korean car.
Had lunch with my son today. He said the same thing....”never thought I’d see you in a Kia”.

Deja vu all over again....resembling Honda and Toyota now compared to what they were in the ‘70s. Hyundai and Kia are executing from the same play book.
Wait; you have a Kia now? I only half-read the posts from the last few weeks...
If you want to save time, next time read all of them but only half the words. That way you'll only go off half cocked, rather than being totally lost.

jmonroe

I generously over-stated my effort there. I read through about two pages, then just set the other 20 or so to "mark as read."

corvette · January 13

Picked up the Tahoe. Got $45 off due to AAA discount. Fingers crossed that it’s fixed!

breld · January 13

Just visited the service dept at our VW dealership.

First, they let us know the clutch had failed and needs to be replaced. Yup, we figured that out on our own.

Second, the advisor stated the cost of the replacement is $3,200, to which my wife quickly replied, "covered under warranty," to which he quickly said, "no, it's considered a wear item."

breld · January 13

The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

suydam · January 13

Wow. That’s some kind of crazy. No clutch should wear that quickly!

jmonroe · January 13

breld said:
The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

Typical service department; bounce a warranty claim then start back-peddling. I've had that happen. It's a loong story but in the end I got some revenge but was still out 3 grand.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

jmonroe

nyccarguy · January 13

breld said:
Just visited the service dept at our VW dealership.

First, they let us know the clutch had failed and needs to be replaced. Yup, we figured that out on our own.

Second, the advisor stated the cost of the replacement is $3,200, to which my wife quickly replied, "covered under warranty," to which he quickly said, "no, it's considered a wear item."

The plot thickens. It sucks that YOU have to call customer care to fight for this.

corvette · January 13

That stinks. Sounds like a typical VW dis-service department. I thought even wear items were generally covered for 1 year / 12k for most makes?

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.

tjc78 · January 13

@breld
Stunned on this. Let’s hope they make it right.

breld · January 13

corvette said:

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.

This is correct.

Maybe the stars align this time with @kyfdx and my GTI.

kyfdx · January 13

breld said:
The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

If the problem is the cooling lines, how can that be related to clutch wear, anyway?

Them: Not covered
Me: Get ready for the worst week of your life

kyfdx · January 13

breld said:

corvette said:

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.
This is correct.

Maybe the stars align this time with @kyfdx and my GTI.

Can you have the clutch checked out, first? I hear you Denverites like to ride them.

graphicguy · January 13

xwesx said:

graphicguy said:

Yes....got a Stinger a couple of weeks ago.
Nice; congrats! Don't forget to update that signature line.

Thanks. Tried to update the siggy several times. Edmunds won’t allow it for some reason!

breld said:
Just visited the service dept at our VW dealership.

First, they let us know the clutch had failed and needs to be replaced. Yup, we figured that out on our own.

Second, the advisor stated the cost of the replacement is $3,200, to which my wife quickly replied, "covered under warranty," to which he quickly said, "no, it's considered a wear item."

Uh....Oh....that’s not good! Bad decision on VW’s end. Hope they see the light!

28firefighter · January 13

So shortsighted. It'd be one thing if the primary driver was someone young and new to driving manual, but come on now.

Any reports on other forums as far as premature clutch wear?

au1994 · January 13

breld said:
The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

No, just no. Even a newbie would have a hard time roasting a clutch in 8k miles.

Good luck. Once the dust settled I’m anxious to see what the replacement will be.

Definitely gives me pause on looking at an Atlas at some point.

qbrozen · January 13

breld said:
The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

Please ask how exactly a worn clutch plate makes the clutch pedal drop to the floor. I feel the need to understand this because it is the exact opposite of all my experience.

breld · January 13

Yeah, I know so little about the mechanics of a clutch system so am unable to ask the right questions or make those kinds of observations, but I do need to make sure to get all relevant facts from their investigation.

My wife just got off the phone with customer care and they've escalated it, so nothing new at this point, which is what I expected. She did ask that the vehicle be bought back, which I advised her to do in the spirit of "may as well ask." At a minimum, I would want them to offer a warranty on the replaced clutch. I mean, the failed clutch was a new one 9k miles ago too...are we to be driving it on pins and needles waiting for another failure?

We'll see...my wife has a gift with words, so I'm letting her handle the correspondence.

stickguy · January 13

I would tell them not to touch it again until this is resolved. Because I would be getting a 2nd opinion from an expert if they are digging in to not cover it. Clutches can wear, with slipping along the way, but don’t just die.

stickguy · January 13

Send a Graphic guy in to handle this. VW will rue the day they messed with you!

corvette · January 13

kyfdx said:
If the problem is the cooling lines, how can that be related to clutch wear, anyway?

'twas me with the leaky oil cooler lines on the Tahoe. I don't think breld mentioned anything about cooler lines on the Alltrack.

breld · January 13

Our Golf R had a clutch that didn't quite feel right and stuck sometimes.

There was zero indication that anything was going on with the Alltrack, and for that matter, no warning lights ever came on at all, even when the failure occurred. My wife had taken a picture of the instrument panel as she was being pulled to the side of the road to show that there were no such warning lights.

28firefighter · January 13

Bad bad form, especially given the history we have with driver's former A4 clutch. I'm a big VW guy but this is enough to turn me away...

xwesx · January 13

breld said:
The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

There's no way that failure was caused by "wear," in which case saying that it is a wear item is just totally asinine. You should get photographs of exactly WHAT failed in there.

xwesx · January 13

qbrozen said:

breld said:
The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.
Please ask how exactly a worn clutch plate makes the clutch pedal drop to the floor. I feel the need to understand this because it is the exact opposite of all my experience.

Yeah, I totally agree. I have experienced a lot of clutch issues in my life, and not a single one reflects this scenario in any way.

Michaell · January 13

FWIW, @breld texted me a link to a possible Alltrack replacement, last night...

...and, we've been kicking around replacements for the GTI. Not many manual transmission fun cars left (and, an even fewer number that @breld hasn't already owned...)

corvette · January 13

Their reasoning sounds along the lines of "sorry the brake caliper on your new car broke in half, but since brakes are a wear item, it's not covered under warranty."

mjfloyd1 · January 13

breld said:

corvette said:

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.
This is correct.

Maybe the stars align this time with @kyfdx and my GTI.

@breld - I don't recall if you bought the alltrack new or used. What was in service date?

Never mind, I just looked back and saw it was new in August of 2019. I wonder why the dealership service department is making this so painful as it is <12 months and <12k miles???

pensfan83 · January 13

I'd be a bit jaded too if a critical part failed prematurely and that's the response I get Especially since I would have concerns over another failure on that same part and that response does little to alleviate the concern it wouldn't happen again.

cdnpinhead · January 13

If it's a wear item, it doesn't pack up all at once -- it wears out. The disk has to be worn down for the "wear item" excuse to be valid. My guess is that the service adviser has no clue how a clutch on a manual transmission works. If they're going to try to stick you with the repair bill, demand to have the disk as evidence that it was worn out.

Good luck. The clutch on my 2008 Acura TSX is still working fine at 161K miles.

I've rented VW products in the past, but given what I've seen here, I wouldn't be caught dead buying one.

corvette · January 13

What about an Outback with the new turbo engine? Subaru seems to take care of their customers when things go wrong.

breld · January 13

Thanks to everyone for the condolences and advice. It provides me a lot of insight on points to bring up with them.

mjfloyd1 · January 13

Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

28firefighter · January 13

You could park it out front with a giant lemon on it. That might be effective.

stickguy · January 13

Well, there is no proof so far the clutch disk us, in fact, worn out. If it were, you would see gradual deterioration in performance, and not a pedal that stuck to the floor.

nyccarguy · January 13

breld said:
Thanks to everyone for the condolences and advice. It provides me a lot of insight on points to bring up with them.

I really hope this works out for you guys. It just sucks because you are such VW fans.

kyfdx · January 13

mjfloyd1 said:
Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

I can see that. A clutch disc doesn't wear out, except from use/abuse. And, I'll guess that @breld 's clutch disc is in good shape, too. (we shall see, I guess)

kyfdx · January 13

corvette said:

kyfdx said:
If the problem is the cooling lines, how can that be related to clutch wear, anyway?
'twas me with the leaky oil cooler lines on the Tahoe. I don't think breld mentioned anything about cooler lines on the Alltrack.

Thanks!

mjfloyd1 · January 13

kyfdx said:

mjfloyd1 said:
Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf
I can see that. A clutch disc doesn't wear out, except from use/abuse. And, I'll guess that @breld 's clutch disc is in good shape, too. (we shall see, I guess)

Surely you are right. Something must have broken and if the clutch disc is broken, it was taken out by that.

28firefighter · January 13

Yes, but don't call me shirley.

pensfan83 · January 13

These people need to go to a hospital.
What is it?
It's a big place where sick people go

breld · January 13

corvette said:
What about an Outback with the new turbo engine? Subaru seems to take care of their customers when things go wrong.

Anything with the 5 star logo would not get far with Mrs. Breld.

jmonroe · January 13

mjfloyd1 said:

kyfdx said:

mjfloyd1 said:
Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf
I can see that. A clutch disc doesn't wear out, except from use/abuse. And, I'll guess that @breld 's clutch disc is in good shape, too. (we shall see, I guess)
Surely you are right. Something must have broken and if the clutch disc is broken, it was taken out by that.

The service advisor is shooting from the hip. Not all that surprising. Probably saw something about "disc wear" somewhere and threw that out. There's a pretty good chance he's never even driven a stick. Oh, he knows what a clutch pedal is but if he had to move a car with a stick, it would barely move and the car would reek from that awful smell. I'm laying odds on that. Anyone in here think otherwise?

jmonroe

explorerx4 · January 13

@breld,
Sorry to hear about your family being stranded on the the road and glad they are OK.
The only time I had a clutch pedal drop to the floor and not come back up was when the clutch cable snapped.
Hydraulic clutches don't have a cable, but like qbrozen said, clutch wear doesn't seem to be the root cause.

mjfloyd1 · January 13

28firefighter said:
Yes, but don't call me shirley.

Shirley you jest

corvette · January 13

I was thinking part of the linkage broke, but VW may only sell it as an entire assembly, ergo, it’s a $3k “clutch assembly” and not covered.

kyfdx · January 13

pensfan83 said:
These people need to go to a hospital.
What is it?
It's a big place where sick people go

Just got back from the Poconos? 🙄

corvette · January 13

@breld, you seemed to like the Mazda3, and it’s been a while since you owned one.

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