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Subaru Crew - Future Models II



  • bblachabblacha Posts: 160
    Any objective statistics course will teach that representative sample "selection", not sample "size", affects reliability of surveys. CR lets its sample select itself - it's skewed even if they have a gazillion responses. (They have 675,000.)

    That said, I've yet to find a better reliability measure than CR.

    Juice - how did you get your hands on that data? Curious...

  • nematodenematode Posts: 448
    juice how were you able to get the data? I was as a subscriber years ago and I asked for the data both by phone and in writing and was rejected. Were you able to get the current data or really old data?
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    Someone should write CR and ask for more info on their Baja ratings (size of sample, examples of problems, etc.)

  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    Simple, screw CR ! They have been very geeky lately.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Oh, in editorials here and there. They often put info in press releases that they don't include in their magazine. Not that I've seen a lot of it, just some here and there. You'll see mention of unpublished details in other newspapers and publications, too.

    It's been a while since I took Stat, did so twice, Undergrad and then Grad school.

    From what I can remember, I'd love to see them publish Confidence Intervals. Then they could rate a car with, say, 90 or 95% likelihood of having X number of problems in the time frame observed. That would be more scientific.

    But the public doesn't study statistics, so they have to dumb it down.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Let's just look at that 675,000 number for a second. Subaru has 1% market share so let's say roughly 6,750 of those are Subies, not a lot really.

    Now, how many of those are Bajas? Maybe 5% or so, sales weighted.

    Actually, no, sorry, that's 5% per year, but Baja has only been out for one model year. So you're talking about, what 20k Bajas out of maybe 2 million Subarus that would qualify as new enough for their ratings?

    Pulling some more guesstimates out of my, um, calculator, that's about 1%. 1% of 6750 is 68 vehicles.

    A tiny sample, we can all agree.

  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    "Different engine, Beanboy. 2.0t vs 2.5t."

    True, but the 2.5T would have been used in the FXT, Baja Turbo and STi for a year.

  • pon1pon1 Posts: 196
    Seeing the Legacy GT and the OBi for the first time at our local show this afternoon.

    Anyone got any burning questions....other than price and availability?

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure they've published the ground clearance spec on the regular Legacy 2.5i and GT, see if they know those now.

    Maybe final curb weights? Those were still not determined.

  • emtemt Posts: 39
    Once I started buying cars listed on the CR recommended list, problems stopped. I have 1 sube and 2 toys. Zero problems, although my 93 sube is starting to leak oil..but hey, it has 100K on it, so I am not upset.
  • "True, but the 2.5T would have been used in the FXT, Baja Turbo and STi for a year.


    True, Ken, and I thought about that, but they do vary slightly across the different models, enough so that I would still like to see what happens for at least 6 months. I am tempted to buy the first one at my local dealer, but, of course, that's nuts.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The intercooler will be unique to the new models, this cross-flow design.

    The intake plenums also look unique. That plus the exhaust.

  • nematodenematode Posts: 448
    2k Outback Limited. In the first 2 years it went back to the dealer for 13 problems and I believe 2 recalls. Thats not good. Then 2 years of no trouble and now its got 3 new problems (leaking headlight, visor fell off while driving, and leaky door seal again). Its also been recalled again for potential head gasket leak. I stil really like the car but I'm certainly glad I got the 7/100 warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's pretty atypical.

  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    I bought the first 1999 Impreza RS my dealer got... watched them roll it off the truck, test drove it (had already driven a '98), and stayed and haggled with the dealer until they Bowed Down and I left happy. :)

  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Way to go. Did you already know that the 99 switched to Phase II?

  • beanboybeanboy Posts: 442
    True, different iternations of the same motor. I'd really like to wait a couple of years, so issues like head gaskets can crop up--or not.

  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    yep, I knew the SOHC engine was new & improved, the shift linkage was better... front end different.

    really I wanted more power. a lot more. but I liked the overall package enough to buy and had full intents on being one of the first to trade up to an Impreza turbo in a few years.

    ...and then the bugeye came along.

    no offense bugeyed owners!
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Over at nasioc, in the News & Rumors area, there's a thread listing all the new '05 colors.

  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    I was at the Philadelphia Flower Show yesterday, for which Subaru is a major sponsor. They had Subies on display smattered throughout the show floor. Two things caught my eye.

    First was that they had a new '05 LL Bean Outback on display. Doors unlocked and everything. Sweet car -- looks like a winner. I was happy to see steering wheel mounted audio controls. I was beginning to think Subaru was getting behind the times and left these out.

    But something else caused me to do a double-take -- they had an '04 Forester XT Prem on display, or at least I THOUGHT it was an '04!

    First some background: I have an '03 Forester XS Premium and my ONLY complaint with the whole gosh darn car is the quirky auto climate controls (and associated overzealous high fan speeds).

    So when I looked in this XT, I was pleased to see Subaru had COMPLETELY redesigned the climate controls, making the knobs deeper & easier to grip, and adding an AUTO mode on EACH knob in-line with the manual settings. That is, you can have the fan speed on Off, Auto, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 and the air output on AUTO, floor, mix, dash, dash + defog, or defog. (The separate defog button is gone.) And the knob now twists freely, rather than having to ratchet it one-twist-at-a-time when changing it manually.

    So today, when I was looking at pictures of '04 Foresters on-line, I noticed that the '04s have the SAME controls as the '03s. So I believe I witnessed an '05 Forester, or maybe an '04 1/2!!

    Does anybody else know anything about this? Did I miss something? Am I losing my mind?

    Now I'm kicking myself that I didn't look at it closer to see what other changes they made!! Ahh!

  • kenskens Posts: 5,869

    Thanks for the report. Did you happen to get any photos of the new Forester HVAC controls?

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The wife and I are going to the Philly flower show tomorrow. I plan to check it out. Thanks for the heads-ups!

  • No, you are not losing your mind.
    Only the FXT gets the upgraded HVAC controls for '04. Subaru wanted to distinguish it from the rest of the pack.
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    My wife and I were at the Flower Show last night. I spent some time looking at the new Outback (very classy) and didn't even bother to examine the Forester XT closely.

  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    So the '04 Forester XT has different controls that the X & XS, huh? I didn't realize this, and even the Forester photo gallery on Edmunds for the XT shows the old controls (and the photos are clearly labeled as being from the XT).

    Anyway, here's the picture I took. For those of you that find the existing controls a bit quirky, you might agree that this is a 100% improvement.

    Anyone know if Subaru also stuck a small fan in the thermocouple so that the system responds quicker to changes in temp? If they did that too, then the Forester XT would be the greatest car of all time! :-)

  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    ugh, I sure hate silver clusters & HVAC. they are going to be so ridiculed in 10 years.

    it'll be worse than the split-into-3-pieces early to mid 90s GM truck radios.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The Forester at the Philly Flower Show was indeed an '05 model!

    Note the following changes/upgrades:

    * The red is now Regatta Red, or so the sales person told me. It did look to be a bit brighter than the red on the current Foresters.

    * Clunky-looking "AWD" badge on rear hatch has been deleted. Like the '05 Legacy/Outback wagons, it now says "Symmetrical AWD, small, on the side rear quarter windows. Visually this is much better.

    * New 3-spoke steering wheel, again, much better looking than the current Forester's steering wheel. It appears to be a MOMO wheel, but it's unlike any current Subie MOMO wheels.

    * Cruise Control stalk is now like that found on the '05 Legacy/Outback & STi, with the on/off master switch now on the end of the stalk.

    The above are all good changes. Unfortunately it still has the same non-SportShift 4EAT, however. :(

    Also at Philly was a '05 LL Bean Outback, and a '04 Baja turbo.

    Subaru had vehicles at 3 different locations at the show; a very smart marketing move on SOA's part. This way you have 3 times the chance of marketing Subarus to the audience. Also smart marketing was the fact that Subaru had plastic bags to put fliers, etc. in. I only saw one other non-Subie plastic bag, but I saw lots of people with Subie bags.

    In the main entrance hallway was the new Outback, so you see it first as you enter the show.

    The Forester was located at the "official" Subie display, which had a beautiful garden arrangement. My wife loved the flower garden at this Subie display, and she knows her flowers, having worked in a garden center.

    Finally, at a "teaching display," with perhaps 50 chairs or so, they had the Baja turbo displayed, and with the bed full of flowers (naturally). What was smart about this was that Subaru had a captive audience while there was a lecturer talking about various aspects of gardening -- with the most logical "gardener's Subie" (the Baja) right there. Very smart marketing indeed.

  • pon1pon1 Posts: 196
    Both and the 2005 OB canadian brochure I picked up at our auto show on Friday tell me Canada is getting five OB models for 2005:

    OBi base, cloth, no moonroof, 5 speed and auto

    OBi limited, leather, moonroof, auto for sure, not sure about the 5 speed

    OB 3.0R 6 cyl, base, cloth, no moonroof, auto

    OB XT turbo, leather, moonroof, 5 speed and auto

    OB 3.0R VDC 6 cyl, leather, moonroof, auto

    So no "base" OB XT here, but interestingly we do get a "base" 3.0R that will undercut the proice of the turbo (put a 5 speed in the 3.0R, make it run on regular gas, that would be of interest).

    The US appears to have gotten lucky for the 2005 MY and is getting an entry level base cloth Outback turbo. To get the turbo Outback in Canada with the mandatory "Limited" features will surely be cnd$40,000 or more....hence I will be forced back off the fence and into a 2005 Forester XT (Bob - thanks for the info)

    The staff at the show knew nothing much on the details (sorry Juice). Canadian pricing on the Legacy and OB is still ?? but colors are known and at the dealers.

    The OB 3.0R VDC and Leg GT Wagon were locked but they sure did look good from the outside, albeit not radically different from the outgoing models. The dual exhausts are distinctive, the OB tailpipes look really funky, the ends are turned down and point to the pavement....

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll take any improvement, though I'm with Colin in terms of not liking that fake aluminum stuff. What's wrong with flat black trim?

    3 spoke wheel is a bigger improvement, IMO. Very nice.

    I'll take the CC on switch, why not.

    Interesting Canadian lineup. I'd consider an H6 with cloth.

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