Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy · October 2023

It’s to replace a trax that got wrecked. She mentioned wanting something smaller like that. But I need to ask if it’s because she thinks it will be cheaper or just because she prefers driving a smaller car!

Just looking at Rodo an HRV should still be quite a bit cheaper to lease than a CRV. Which is not saying h much.

stickguy · October 2023

Checked a trax. Similar price and lease to an HRV. seems like sign and drive on any of them is in the $370 range.

oldfarmer50 · October 2023

kyfdx said:
1st time I had unscheduled warranty service at a BMW dealer (towed in), they were out of cars, and called Enterprise.

Chevy Super Duty Dually.. 10 mpg.

Maybe you looked the type. We’re you wearing a flannel shirt?

stickguy · October 2023

Found a cross trek premium with a $27k sticker for $354/month S&D. At least that’s a nice car!

oldfarmer50 · October 2023

stickguy said:
Working on options for my consult on a small SUV for a family member. HRV might actually work out. But man, leases Stink now!

Looking at Subaru too (crosstrek) but I assume leases Are awful on them too.

Try something with a higher deprecation rate so the residual isn’t as large. I’d only BUY a car that has a reputation for longevity, not lease it. Try something like a Kia.

stickguy · October 2023

Shouldn’t a higher residual mean a lower lease payment?

I’ll look at Kona’s too. And the soul.

oldfarmer50 · October 2023

stickguy said:
Shouldn’t a higher residual mean a lower lease payment?

I’ll look at Kona’s too. And the soul.

Probably, never mind then. There’s a reason I don’t lease.😫

stickguy · October 2023

Did not realize the Kona got so expensive. Running mid-30s.

And souls are very pricey to lease.

stickguy · October 2023

So just doing a quick Rodo search to level set, any of the compact CUV options. Modestly equipped so sticker in the $25-27k range, comes out to be $350/month +/- $20. All 36/12000 first payment only DAS.

Not, great? At that price might be better off just buying a Honda on a 60 month note and being done with it.

kyfdx · October 2023

stickguy said:
So just doing a quick Rodo search to level set, any of the compact CUV options. Modestly equipped so sticker in the $25-27k range, comes out to be $350/month +/- $20. All 36/12000 first payment only DAS.

Not, great? At that price might be better off just buying a Honda on a 60 month note and being done with it.

Seltos? When we shopped the 2022 versions, they had a lot of equipment for the dollar.

kyfdx · October 2023

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:
1st time I had unscheduled warranty service at a BMW dealer (towed in), they were out of cars, and called Enterprise.

Chevy Super Duty Dually.. 10 mpg.
Maybe you looked the type. We’re you wearing a flannel shirt?

BMW dealer. We don't go unless we are wearing a 3-piece suit.

corvette · October 2023

I’m not sure about the current models, but when the first HR-V came out, the CR-V was a lot more car in terms of power and refinement, for not much more money, especially comparing base model to base model.

kyfdx · October 2023

corvette said:
I’m not sure about the current models, but when the first HR-V came out, the CR-V was a lot more car in terms of power and refinement, for not much more money, especially comparing base model to base model.

The old HR-V is a dog.. 146 hp. No idea on the new one, though

stickguy · October 2023

New HRV seems a lot nicer. More like a small CRV. from what I read.

Seltos deals stunk. Plus you would have to drive one.

I need to get out and look at a few of these. Very inconvenient having to work during the day.

kyfdx · October 2023

stickguy said:
New HRV seems a lot nicer. More like a small CRV. from what I read.

Seltos deals stunk. Plus you would have to drive one.

I need to get out and look at a few of these. Very inconvenient having to work during the day.

Non-turbo Seltos is a lot like the old HR-V. But, they have turbo models

breld · October 2023

stickguy said:
Did not realize the Kona got so expensive. Running mid-30s.

And souls are very pricey to lease.

We helped a friend of ours buy a Kona about 4 years ago. With incentives and just generally the economic environment, I think she picked up a loaded Kona AWD for mid-$20k’s. She’s ready to replace it with a new, similar vehicle and would like our help again. She’d like to stay around $24k. We had to inform her it would be at least in the low-$30k’s to get a new equivalent Kona.

ab348 · October 2023

stickguy said:
So just doing a quick Rodo search to level set, any of the compact CUV options. Modestly equipped so sticker in the $25-27k range, comes out to be $350/month +/- $20. All 36/12000 first payment only DAS.

Not, great? At that price might be better off just buying a Honda on a 60 month note and being done with it.

Back on the Trax, my local dealer shows 3 in stock, all between $26 and $28K in worthless Canadian dollars. One of those is a RS IIRC. Surely in the US they would be significantly cheaper than here?

oldfarmer50 · October 2023

stickguy said:
Did not realize the Kona got so expensive. Running mid-30s.

And souls are very pricey to lease.

According to the mailer my Kia dealer sent me, a Forte (comparable price to a Soul) is $358/mo for a zero down 10k/year lease. With $1050 acquisition and disposition fees. What ever happened to the $99 leases?

tifighter · October 2023

@oldfarmer50 said:
What ever happened to the $99 leases?

Rising interest rates happened. Money isn’t free anymore.

explorerx4 · October 2023

The HRV is basically a last gen Civic with an SUV body on it.

ab348 · October 2023

tifighter said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

What ever happened to the $99 leases?

Rising interest rates happened. Money isn’t free anymore.

Partly that, and partly the pent-up demand that still exists for many new vehicles so manufacturers no longer need to subsidize new leases.

Michaell · October 2023

ab348 said:

tifighter said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

What ever happened to the $99 leases?

Rising interest rates happened. Money isn’t free anymore.

Partly that, and partly the pent-up demand that still exists for many new vehicles so manufacturers no longer need to subsidize new leases.

^^^ this ^^^

Not many models have lease incentives on them, and finding a lease with a money factor less than .00100 is pretty tough (and, if you do, the residual is terrible, to compensate).

That said, @kyfdx and I had a banner day answering lease questions yesterday, as new programs were released for almost all brands.

jmonroe1 · October 2023

nyccarguy said:
Nothing to report for the group, but a punch on the hunt and a punch to report in my group of friends.

First is my friend Mike who traded in his 110K mile 6.2L Silverado for a C8 Corvette.

Next is my friend Scott who is on the hunt to replace his wife’s leased Q5 which has 9 months left on the lease. It’s got a hit on the carfax, needs tires, brakes, & an oil change. He’s about $5K underwater and figures the brakes, tires, & maintenance will cost him about $2,500. With the $2,500 already spent in his mind, he might as well throw the other $2,500 in the hat and get a new car. He and his wife both like the IS350 FSport. This is in FL. Ok.

Dealer #1 is a 1 price, no doc fee dealer shows him the screen with the MSRP, healthy dealer discount, base money factor, and incentives ($1K Lexus lease cash & $1,500 in Lexus Loyalty. Dealer says, let me show you this before we factor in you Audi’s trade in value. Sign & drive $740/month for 36/12K. Dealer #1 says he’s about $5K under on the Audi. Nothing they can do. Dirty carfax. Try taking it to an Audi dealer to have them buy it from you.

Since he’s very determined, he went to another Lexus dealer in South Florida. Complete opposite experience. He picks a similar MSRP car out of their stock. They don’t give any numbers except $7,500 DAS & $1,200 per month for 36/10K. He tells them no thank-you. Since you are intent on wasting my time, I won’t do the same to you. Where’s my car?

“It’s in the back, getting evaluated. Let me go see if I can I’m find someone to bring it around.”

While he’s waiting (for a long time), he gets approached and greeted by 4 different managers. “What’s the problem?” “What can we do to earn your business?” “Where do you want to be to buy this car today?”

He tells them their offer is way too high. And they say, well that’s just our starting point. He tells them his starting point is $5K DAS and $600 per month (which he knows is too cheap). $1,200 become $850. He presses a little further to see how they are coming to their numbers. They have a large doc fee, $2,500 in blessings, and have valued his Audi $1,500 less.

Finally he grabbed his keys and walked out.

————————————————
With all the years of car sales why don’t dealers have a better line than, “what can we do to earn your business”? I guess I’m lucky because I’ve never heard that line but if I did I’d walk immediately.

However, I have had a salesman tell me they’d match a written offer. When I told him “matching wasn’t good enough”, he’d have to beat the other guys number. Of course he wanted to know by how much and I said, “just give me your best price”. He disliked that and said something like, “why should I give you more than I have to”. I told him the other guy didn’t ask me what number I wanted, he just gave me his best price. His response to that was, “we don’t do business like that”. My reply was, “and that’s why you’re not going to sell me a car”. I got up and left. The sales manager got to me before I got to my car and said, “ come on back in, I’m sure I can sell you that car today”. I just opened the door and headed to the other dealer.

jmonroe

tjc78 · October 2023

Really slacking on replacing the XC. We’ve been really tied up with a lot of stuff.. and very close to pulling the trigger on a kitchen remodel at the shore (new doors, painting the frames and countertops/backsplash/appliances)

This would be a perfect time to extend the Volvo lease but I’ve read they don’t do that

28firefighter · October 2023

We're in the design stage for a remodel at home - just sending out bids to contractors. I know the outcome will be worth it but I can tell this is going to be a thing.

kyfdx · October 2023

Noooooo... it'll be easy. Trust me.

tjc78 · October 2023

It never ends guys!

stickguy · October 2023

I just got the final drawings for our new build this afternoon and have to review and approve tonight. Builder will file for permit tomorrow.

Starting to get real! Scary.

Shortly we will be sent to the kitchen design center to start that. I expect my wife to have a complete nervous breakdown trying to make decisions. She is not good at that. Might have to import our daughter to take over the process!

xwesx · October 2023

stickguy said:
So just doing a quick Rodo search to level set, any of the compact CUV options. Modestly equipped so sticker in the $25-27k range, comes out to be $350/month +/- $20. All 36/12000 first payment only DAS.

Not, great? At that price might be better off just buying a Honda on a 60 month note and being done with it.

In the current climate, that's probably a better option. At least they'll likely have something of value, even if they do start looking before they pay off the note, but they will likely pay more overall during those first three years.

I haven't looked recently, but, as of May, I could still get more for our Crosstrek than I paid for it back in Dec 2020.

xwesx · October 2023

I want to share the small project we did on our place in Ohio with y'all, but someone will probably tell me to put it on C&C. Man, that thread is scary.

sda · October 2023

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

tifighter said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

What ever happened to the $99 leases?

Rising interest rates happened. Money isn’t free anymore.

Partly that, and partly the pent-up demand that still exists for many new vehicles so manufacturers no longer need to subsidize new leases.

^^^ this ^^^

Not many models have lease incentives on them, and finding a lease with a money factor less than .00100 is pretty tough (and, if you do, the residual is terrible, to compensate).

That said, @kyfdx and I had a banner day answering lease questions yesterday, as new programs were released for almost all brands.

How many lease inquires do you receive daily? No rest for the weary??

greg128 · October 2023

One of my customers came in with a new Chevy Silverado High Country. He previously had a 2020 leased and paying $660 per month. He wanted to turn it in for an new one and was quoted $1200 per month.
He really liked the 2023 and decided it would be cheaper to buy which he did. Not sure of the terms but he told me the new High Country trim with pretty much every option was around $80K.

It is a very impressive truck and the interior with the 2 tone leather and wood was gorgeous.

tjc78 · October 2023

It isn’t pretty out there. Even the decent programs are offset by higher MSRPs than a few years ago.

Case in point.
My XC90 was right at 60K in 2020.

From what I can tell it’s nearly 63K now and missing some features like HK audio. To get that you step up to over 65K.

cdnpinhead · October 2023

If you actually need a car, buy it. Or, if you want to wear the car, lease it. Don't lose sleep over the concept that someone somewhere got a better deal than you did.

Yeah, I know -- you could sooner flap your arms and fly to the moon (credit to Charles 'Shultz).

YMMV

ab348 · October 2023

stickguy said:

Shortly we will be sent to the kitchen design center to start that. I expect my wife to have a complete nervous breakdown trying to make decisions. She is not good at that. Might have to import our daughter to take over the process!

Funny that you bring that up today. I just came back from a visit to what they call a “home center” on This Old House, in my case a local operation like a homey Home Depot. I like them even if dealing with them can be a bit hit or miss. They are the opposite of a hard sell, and sometimes it’s hard to get their attention long enough to get them to sell you something. They are really helpful and friendly but get distracted easily it seems.

I was there to get them started on a quote for some new windows, but the window dept was next to the kitchen department with all their displays. The last time I did this 20 years ago I agonized over every choice to get precisely what I wanted. Today, If everything was magically ready for cabinets and counters and I had a schedule of cabinet/counter sizes, I think I could have made all my decisions in about 20 minutes. They had samples on display that I really liked.

One display cabinet intrigued me and I don’t know what you would use it for, so maybe someone can tell me. It was an upper cabinet about 18” wide by with a door that was at least that tall if not taller, might have been full-height of the box. It had a trick articulated hinge to open out just slightly but then travel straight up parallel to the cabinet/wall. It was cool. Just not sure why it would be needed.

andres3 · October 2023

au1994 said:

28firefighter said:

@stickguy said:

Mortgages are not too bad. the rate I just locked into (12 month lock, free relock if it goes down) in 6.125% I think that is before the .125% deduction for direct debit from a checking account at that bank (which I have). 7/1 arm.

Thats a really solid rate right now.

That said, I am very glad we refinanced when we did a few years ago. We managed to time it to the very bottom of the market.

We did as well. Main house is at 2.65, lake house is at 3.25. Practically free money.

Almost assuredly the fake fees and charges from the bank add up to four digits for the loans, but if somehow you found one that doesn't add up to that much when you add it all up; share the contact info!

kyfdx · October 2023

@sda

Yesterday was the "1st of the month" for lease programs. Over 500 posts in the forums, and probably 90% are questions/replies on leases.

So, about 230 questions answered.
Today, will probably hit 175-200.

I'd guess normal days are 100-150..

andres3 · October 2023

Michaell said:

venture said:
We were in Maryland over the weekend. Before starting back, I decided to fill up.

It sort of felt good not paying $4.60 for premium.
My sister filled up her Volvo XC40 on Friday night at Costco in the greater San Diego area.

Now, we all know that Costco has some pretty decent pricing, but she paid $5.99/gal for Premium. Makes me wonder how much it would have been at a Shell station.

Not looking forward to having fill up the rental car this week on my trip to CA. I will be picking something from the Emerald Aisle that takes RUG.

It's reached $7+ downtown. RUG is still usually only about .30-.40 less.

Michaell · October 2023

sda said:

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

tifighter said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

What ever happened to the $99 leases?

Rising interest rates happened. Money isn’t free anymore.

Partly that, and partly the pent-up demand that still exists for many new vehicles so manufacturers no longer need to subsidize new leases.
^^^ this ^^^

Not many models have lease incentives on them, and finding a lease with a money factor less than .00100 is pretty tough (and, if you do, the residual is terrible, to compensate).

That said, @kyfdx and I had a banner day answering lease questions yesterday, as new programs were released for almost all brands.

How many lease inquires do you receive daily? No rest for the weary??

During the month, maybe 80-100 lease questions daily.

Yesterday, over 200, because of the new programs

Common questions:

Q: "I didn't close my deal in September; did the October programs change?"
A: Yes, Mr. Member, they did change, and not for the better. Your lease payment will now be $50/mo higher.
Q: "Why?"
A: Have you been paying attention to interest rates, in general, lately?

Q: "Can I still get lease numbers on the 2022 Belchfire XL?"
A: Nope - the manufacturer dropped lease support on that old model this month; you shoulda jumped on that deal when there was lease support available
Q: "****!"
A: *shrug*

For those of you still interested, you can continue to lease a 2022 MB SL, with $20K of dealer cash on the SL63.

stickguy · October 2023

My “client” is my soon to be in law (son’s fiancé mother). Have not talked to her directly yet. Just got basic parameters. Will have the hard talk about lease vs buying. I was actually surprised to hear she wanted to lease. Probably hoarding cash for the wedding!

explorerx4 · October 2023

@michaell,
"Belchfire". Channeling some Autoextremist, I see .

Michaell · October 2023

explorerx4 said:
@michaell,
"Belchfire". Channeling some Autoextremist, I see .

Well, yeah.

explorerx4 · October 2023

Dot a phone call and a text from the dealership. They can't get the 'Friends and Family' PIN to go through and they asked for my wife's work badge.
She works from home, so there is no badge.
To be continued.

stickguy · October 2023

Usually you can send an email from the work account and have that count.

explorerx4 · October 2023

@stickguy,
Good idea. Thx.

jmonroe1 · October 2023

stickguy said:
My “client” is my soon to be in law (son’s fiancé mother). Have not talked to her directly yet. Just got basic parameters. Will have the hard talk about lease vs buying. I was actually surprised to hear she wanted to lease. Probably hoarding cash for the wedding!

————————————————
You wish.

jmonroe

ronsteve · October 2023

@tifighter said:
Out on a walk this afternoon, I saw this and it made me chuckle-

Even a JLR dealer doesn’t trust a JLR product for a loaner.

One of my dealer visits with the Volvo wagon had me in a 4 year old Toyota FJ Cruiser as a loaner. Do miles actually matter on a used Toyota?

andres3 · October 2023

Any real estate experts here?

If you buy a house and it closes on the last day of the month, but the seller and their team have some shenanigans that cause the closing to be delayed until the 1st of the month.

1. If the house burns down to the ground that same night, can you refuse to sign on the closing docs and back out?
2. Since you don't own the house for an extra day, isn't the bank giving you a mortgage with zero collateral for that day of extension (still charging interest of course).

What reminded me of this is that my closing was delayed for several days by the seller. I asked the insurance company to credit me the days I didn't own the house as there was nothing owned by me yet to insure. They blocked my attempt by saying the bank/mortgage company required insurance once the loan was issued.

It made me realize there's a flaw in the system. I was paying for a loan with no house for like a week. No collateral. if I backed out, can I take the huge loan to Vegas and lose it all? If the seller backs out from selling, what happens? I certainly would rather back out if the house burned down to the ground, rather than deal with rebuilding and an insurance claim. Make it the seller's problem, they are the one that waited too long to close the deal.

stickguy · October 2023

Return the house to RIte aid maybe?

Not quite sure I am following your logistics though. You can't get a mortgage if you didn't close on the house. They need to go together.

but if you signed papers and got the loan already, and somehow don't end up with the house, you still owe them the money.

corvette · October 2023

Maybe I should have kept that 2023 Maverick order... Carvana offer of $27,700 on my 2022 Maverick (a fair bit more than what I paid for it a year ago).

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