Real-World Trade-In Values

andres3 · November 2023

steine13 said:
A new engine is a great thing if it's (i) a new engine, not something "low mileage" pulled from some other car, and (ii) done right, which is hard to know for a buyer. So I wouldn't think of that as either a negative or a positive unless I knew more about it.

cheers -mathias

It's a positive to me as well, but on a sample of 1, the first guy freaked out and thought it "too much trouble" that the engine had to be replaced. And it most certainly has been done right, or I'd know in the last 20K+ miles since the new engine was put in.

Also, good point as some unreasonable seller's say "new engine" when they really mean a new engine to the car only, and the engine is already beat from some random junkyard.

stickguy · November 2023

Did you run it through carmax
And carvana. always a good baseline

steine13 · November 2023

I've got one. Maybe.
2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0 T SE
209k, cloth, clean inside and out but not spectacular. Alloys, decent tires.

https://www.williamsautoworld.com/used/Hyundai/2011-Hyundai-Sonata-991527450a0e0a92336a2c1e4c88afaf.htm

qbrozen · November 2023

You wrote 209k and I was about to jump on you. Then looked at the ad. 109k.

Condition is everything. Some have been mid 3s in average condition, while some have been mid 5s for great condition. Auction prices, of course.

steine13 · November 2023

Thanks, Q...sry about the typo. What happens when I use my phone #oldpeople

[Deleted User] · November 2023

Getting close to having to make a decision, curious what we could get on trade for this if you don't mind:
21 Tacoma Double Cab TRD Off-Road 4WD, Auto, Gray/Gray, just under 13k miles, nothing wrong with it - thinking about buying out the lease. Thanks in advance!

qbrozen · November 2023

$35k-$36k trade

28firefighter · November 2023

What was MSRP? Might be better off buying new.

kyfdx · November 2023

28firefighter said:
What was MSRP? Might be better off buying new.

I’ll guess around $40K, but the buyout might be around $30K?

[Deleted User] · November 2023

Correct on both, MSRP was $38,455 and residual is $29,225. I thought one of the boys might like it down the road but all seem content with what they have at the moment. Ironically, my wife who's never really cared what she drives, has suddenly shown interest in a few vehicles so having equity might be nice for once!

steine13 · November 2023

Another little winter beater with some promise:
2012 Kia Soul, 122k, model not known. Note the wheel covers over steel, so low to mid-range.
It appears to be pretty clean inside. Tires are "ok".

The only thing I know about these is that I recently checked one out for one of our post-docs and was impressed -- at 176k, it ran well and the (conventional) automatic shifted fine. They may be the closest equivalent to the Prizms of yore.. a good model to buy for basic transportation.

Thanks in advance as always.
cheers -mathias

oldfarmer50 · November 2023

steine13 said:
Another little winter beater with some promise:
2012 Kia Soul, 122k, model not known. Note the wheel covers over steel, so low to mid-range.
It appears to be pretty clean inside. Tires are "ok".

The only thing I know about these is that I recently checked one out for one of our post-docs and was impressed -- at 176k, it ran well and the (conventional) automatic shifted fine. They may be the closest equivalent to the Prizms of yore.. a good model to buy for basic transportation.

Thanks in advance as always.
cheers -mathias

That looks like the base model. 1.6L motor about 130hp. It does my heart good that they can go 122k miles let alone 176k. If it’s cheap enough go for it, just remember, they aren’t Hondas.😀

Nearest comparable I could find in the northeast:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/695543895?endYear=2012&makeCode=KIA&modelCode=SOUL&newSearch=true&numRecords=25&referrer=/cars-for-sale/all-cars/2012/kia/soul/albany-ny?isNewSearch=false&searchRadius=300&zip=12201&searchRadius=300&sortBy=relevance&startYear=2012&zip=12201&clickType=supplemental

qbrozen · November 2023

Cheap stuff is cheap stuff. It is worth whatever you think you can get out of it. I see them at auction with those miles for $2k and $3k. Difference? Condition, of course.

pensfan83 · December 2023

Hi - can you give me a general idea of trade in/auction on the car below?

2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 V6
78K Miles, Silver Exterior, Black Interior
Trailer Package
Good/Decent Condition

qbrozen · December 2023

Assuming no runs/hits/errors and maintenance up to date, you should be around $15k. What have carvana/vroom offered?

whitesox · December 2023

Looking at an out of season convertible in the snowy midwest. It's been on a Honda dealer lot for 75 days, they usually punt them at 90 days, correct? Wondering about current values if they sent it to auction. 2014 Audi RS-5 convertible. 61,000 miles, has a minor damage accident on the carfax and 5 owners so I would say middle of the road for history/condition. I think they took it in on trade because the previous registration is local. Just trying to guess what low ball number they might accept.

qbrozen · December 2023

Tough one. Not any recent data to go on. But, based on all the facts associated with this one, I’d personally be hard pressed to go over $28k, and that is assuming the previous damage wasn’t too bad, is fixed correctly, and has no immediate service needs. Put it this way: you can get a GOOD one for $32-33k.

sda · December 2023

whitesox said:
Looking at an out of season convertible in the snowy midwest. It's been on a Honda dealer lot for 75 days, they usually punt them at 90 days, correct? Wondering about current values if they sent it to auction. 2014 Audi RS-5 convertible. 61,000 miles, has a minor damage accident on the carfax and 5 owners so I would say middle of the road for history/condition. I think they took it in on trade because the previous registration is local. Just trying to guess what low ball number they might accept.

What engine does it have? This is the period 2010-2015(?) as miles accumulated, around 60-75k they suffered carbon build up, oil consumption and timing chain issues. Buyer beware!

whitesox · December 2023

It has the 4.2L V8. Had my other car in for service and couldn't help perusing what else they had. They are asking $28K so probably not much more they would want to move.

[Deleted User] · January 2024

Just wondering if this has changed much, miles are now 13,600, it was $35k-$36k back in Nov:
21 Tacoma Double Cab TRD Off-Road 4WD, Auto, Gray/Gray, still nothing wrong with it. The son who now works at a Toyota dealership has it there today for an appraisal, will be interesting to see what they say.

Thanks in advance

qbrozen · January 2024

They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

[Deleted User] · January 2024

qbrozen said:
They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

Thanks, fingers crossed!

[Deleted User] · January 2024

dad23 said:

qbrozen said:
They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

Thanks, fingers crossed!

Well, they're definitely not reward-averse, "how does $30k sound?"

jmonroe1 · January 2024

dad23 said:

dad23 said:

qbrozen said:
They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

Thanks, fingers crossed!
Well, they're definitely not reward-averse, "how does $30k sound?"

————————————————
To me that sounds like the typical old time shenanigans of a dealer trying to steal a car. Some things never change.

jmonroe

[Deleted User] · January 2024

jmonroe1 said:

dad23 said:

dad23 said:

qbrozen said:
They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

Thanks, fingers crossed!
Well, they're definitely not reward-averse, "how does $30k sound?"
————————————————
To me that sounds like the typical old time shenanigans of a dealer trying to steal a car. Some things never change.

jmonroe

I took it to a local broker this evening close to home, they want it, $34k!

jmonroe1 · January 2024

dad23 said:

jmonroe1 said:

dad23 said:

dad23 said:

qbrozen said:
They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

Thanks, fingers crossed!
Well, they're definitely not reward-averse, "how does $30k sound?"
————————————————
To me that sounds like the typical old time shenanigans of a dealer trying to steal a car. Some things never change.

jmonroe
I took it to a local broker this evening close to home, they want it, $34k!

————————————————
I don’t want his head to swell but once again @qbrozen seems to know his stuff.

jmonroe

Michaell · January 2024

dad23 said:

jmonroe1 said:

dad23 said:

dad23 said:

qbrozen said:
They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

Thanks, fingers crossed!
Well, they're definitely not reward-averse, "how does $30k sound?"
————————————————
To me that sounds like the typical old time shenanigans of a dealer trying to steal a car. Some things never change.

jmonroe
I took it to a local broker this evening close to home, they want it, $34k!

Centennial?

[Deleted User] · January 2024

Michaell said:

dad23 said:

jmonroe1 said:

dad23 said:

dad23 said:

qbrozen said:
They have varied a little, so it will depend how risk-averse they are. Could be I think anywhere from 32 up to 35.

Thanks, fingers crossed!
Well, they're definitely not reward-averse, "how does $30k sound?"
————————————————
To me that sounds like the typical old time shenanigans of a dealer trying to steal a car. Some things never change.

jmonroe
I took it to a local broker this evening close to home, they want it, $34k!
Centennial?

Greenwood, I'm still waiting to hear back from Centennial.

steine13 · January 2024

Learned Friends:
This is for entertainment only, but it's the slow part of the year and I have time.. Been doing some shopping with colleagues from foreign lands, per the usual cycle of life here.
BTW that green Kia Soul about a dozen posts up turned out to be rat; nasty gunk under the valve cover and not so clean inside.. the twin that I had checked out for a friend was the opposite; clean and running fine without trouble.

That's one reason I like my used cars nice and old ... you only pay for what you get, and you can see what you're getting if you know how to look.

Moving along, there's this 2015 Impreza gem -- 130k, Sport trim, one owner, evidence of maintenance including the important-for-Subis coolant change, and $5,900. One of our guys is buying it if the mechanic's report tomrrow comes back clean. Which it will.

I really liked driving it and could find nothing wrong, beyond a suspension that's a little soft. The nuts on the strut towers were all shiny so I wondered whether the struts had been done but hadn't made it into the carfax. It wasn't nearly as soft as I sometimes find with older cars.

cheers -mathias

steine13 · January 2024

Moving right along, after test-driving the above Subi, Dave-the-dealer hinted strongly that the 2017 Legacy was worth a look.. which it was.

2017 Subaru Legacy, one owner, 216k miles, no check-engine light or anything obvious, $3975. We drove it, and miles or no miles, it was a cut above the Impreza.. just a bigger car with a bigger engine and nothing really wrong.
There was a strong smell of vanilla air freshener, which was the first hint to look closely.
It turned out that the "one owner" was Manpower Corporation, maning one owner and five dozen drivers. The Carfax listed tons of oil changes but little else beyond the obvious, like brakes. So we have a CVT with over 200k and zero maintenance... the Impreza might be OK with some maintenance at 130, but this one I'd leave alone until it breaks. At any rate, between the two cars, our friend wisely chose the more expensive Impreza.

For all that, both of these drove and sounded and shifted like much newer cars. Fretting about Subaru CVTs appears not to be necessary beyond routine maintenance. It was an instructive outing, and I was impressed.

read on...

steine13 · January 2024

I'd be interested in a valuation for the Impreza, but I don't need it to know it's a solid deal if it's as good as I think.

Below is a car that is more in my line of sight. My wife travels all over, driving a 2017 Grand Caravan base model that I bought new -- and kinda wish I'd'a bought two of them. If I had a place to store it... they were $20k before taxes and if you want a low-end Pacifica today, it'll cost twice that, easy.

This one has none of the frou-frou that likes to break, like powered doors and tailgates that are way too slow anyway, and up until recently it had been hands-down the most reliable car we've ever owned. A Chrysler product.
I know.

A couple weeks back, Mrs. steine13 was nearing her destination somewhere between Austin and Dallas, when the car went in limp-home mode due to, we later learned, a misfire detection. Not a big deal, $400 for a new injector cured it, but not a pleasant thing a thousand miles from home. I think this is the new "break down by the side of the road"-- you don't get stuck but you're driving 30 mph on the shoulder. If any. An improvement over the old days, for sure.

So I'm thinking about eventual replacement, and the minivan market is grim.

That got me wondering about this one:

2016 Town & Country Touring.
One owner, decent but not spectacular maintenance, one "minor" front ding w/out airbag deployment, 116k miles.

I don't have a good picture of the outside but inside it is remarkably clean.

I'm not in the habit of paying $9 for ten-year-old cars, but I have a bad feeling that this is actually a pretty good deal in the present market. I'll be on the lookout for a late-build Grand Caravan and might go to some trouble to get one from the south.. but if I needed one right now, I'd buy this one.

What do the experts say?

The smart move might be a new Sienna hybrid for the 36 mpg, but man that has a lot of ugly... and a mid-$40s price tag, minimum.

That was a lot of writing.
Hope everyone's having a good Sunday.
And Go Lions tonight!

cheers -mathias

stickguy · January 2024

How many miles on the current van?

steine13 · January 2024

>> How many miles on the current van?

Ugh. I edited that out without meaning to... our 2017 has 114k miles on it, most of them put on by Madame in the last three years after her Sienna was taken out of full-time service by old age.

I'll have a heart to heart with my mechanic about swapping things like ignition coils and the rest of the injectors... the 3.6 Pentastar is by all accounts a solid mill, capable of 250k miles and beyond, knock on wood, I just need it to be solid for the missus on her trips. I even got a new battery without any signs of trouble beyond age.

It's a car I'll gladly take back with high miles as a knockabout for the 3000 miles a year I drive. Maybe I'll drive more when I'm retired but I'm not ready for that, yet.... mentally;)

cheers -mathias

jmonroe1 · January 2024

steine13 said:
Moving right along, after test-driving the above Subi, Dave-the-dealer hinted strongly that the 2017 Legacy was worth a look.. which it was.

2017 Subaru Legacy, one owner, 216k miles, no check-engine light or anything obvious, $3975. We drove it, and miles or no miles, it was a cut above the Impreza.. just a bigger car with a bigger engine and nothing really wrong.
There was a strong smell of vanilla air freshener, which was the first hint to look closely.
It turned out that the "one owner" was Manpower Corporation, maning one owner and five dozen drivers. The Carfax listed tons of oil changes but little else beyond the obvious, like brakes. So we have a CVT with over 200k and zero maintenance... the Impreza might be OK with some maintenance at 130, but this one I'd leave alone until it breaks. At any rate, between the two cars, our friend wisely chose the more expensive Impreza.

For all that, both of these drove and sounded and shifted like much newer cars. Fretting about Subaru CVTs appears not to be necessary beyond routine maintenance. It was an instructive outing, and I was impressed.

read on...

————————————————
FWIW, I’d have bought the Impreza like your friend did too. There’s no way I could gag down the thought of buying a car, any car, that has over 200K miles or even something close to that. Well, maybe if I woke up with an empty bottle of bourbon at my feet and it only cost something like a grand but more than likely I still wouldn’t do it.

Good luck to your friend.

jmonroe

stickguy · January 2024

So you are afraid of a van you know with 114k but are happy to replace it with a pig in a poke with 116k?

Why not get a full inspection and just do a good preventive maintenance refresh and keep using it?

Does this engine have the plastic oil/coolant cooler contraption below the intake manifold that likes to fail and leak both fluids Al into the valley of the engine? Just watched Rainman Day video on replacing one of those (I think in a Pacifica) and sounds like a known weak point.

stickguy · January 2024

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GrZ2-icx53I&pp=ygUVcmFpbm1hbiByYXkncyByZXBhaXJz

steine13 · January 2024

@jmonroe
>> it only cost something like a grand but more than likely I still wouldn’t do it.

You must have not tried to buy a "cheap" car in a while.
The floor for something you can get in and drive away is $3,000, even here in the rust belt. Like a 2003 Camry with 220k.

I'd buy that Legacy if i needed wheels and it had been maintained.. I'd get years of service out of it, too.

@stickguy
>> happy to replace it with a pig in a poke

Heck no. I haven't had a car of my own in a couple years... we basically share the 21 Impreza as needed, and mostly I bike everywhere. Even so the van gets miled up pretty good, so I'm thinking ahead, which is why I want to know what that market looks like.

Plus I'd like to be ready when a good deal comes along, since I could use a car of my own. Be good to have a spare van.

We have done well buying new and running long-term, but I have an aversion to the technology that people need so they can play with their phones while "driving."

Until the real self-driving cars come out, and I'm looking forward to that, I'd rather skip this phase. Friends tell me their cars ding and buzz all the time and it's annoying. I have no use for that, nor for $1000 windshield replacements etc.

cheers -mathias

steine13 · January 2024

@stickguy
Hadn't heard about the oil cooler business... mine IS a 2017, though.. there were some lubrication issues with the engine that were fixed by 2014, maybe this is too new new a problem to be widespread yet.

I'll read up on it, thanks.
For now I've watched the video.. at least I know what to look for, plus I keep an eye on oil and coolant as a matter of course #oldmanbehavior.

cheers -mathias

oldfarmer50 · January 2024

steine13 said:
Learned Friends:
This is for entertainment only, but it's the slow part of the year and I have time.. Been doing some shopping with colleagues from foreign lands, per the usual cycle of life here.
BTW that green Kia Soul about a dozen posts up turned out to be rat; nasty gunk under the valve cover and not so clean inside.. the twin that I had checked out for a friend was the opposite; clean and running fine without trouble.

That's one reason I like my used cars nice and old ... you only pay for what you get, and you can see what you're getting if you know how to look.

Moving along, there's this 2015 Impreza gem -- 130k, Sport trim, one owner, evidence of maintenance including the important-for-Subis coolant change, and $5,900. One of our guys is buying it if the mechanic's report tomrrow comes back clean. Which it will.

I really liked driving it and could find nothing wrong, beyond a suspension that's a little soft. The nuts on the strut towers were all shiny so I wondered whether the struts had been done but hadn't made it into the carfax. It wasn't nearly as soft as I sometimes find with older cars.

cheers -mathias

You mention mechanic’s report which is a good idea. How do you go about that? Do you check out the car and then call random mechanics to see who can look at it or do you have one in particular you use. Is it tough to schedule an inspection in advance or do you just show up? Also, are dealers always willing to have you take their car for an extended period of time?

steine13 · January 2024

The mechanic's visit is the Achilles heel of the whole process... which is why I like buying from this particular dealer, because he is quite accomodating. We looked at the car on Friday, made an appointment for 08:00 Monday, and left with one of the keys for the car, and a license plate in the trunk. The buyer will pick up the car early tomorrow, drive it to the shop, and drive it back to the dealership around the time they open.

A private sale with a car that is reasonably priced will not allow for this process. Everything I see locally that strikes me as a good deal is either gone within hours, or it hangs around for a long time, indicating undisclosed and obvious issues.

The buyer in this case went to a local dealer on his own and found a nice Escape with low miles, 8 years old, $8k... but they wouldn't show him the carfax... he pulled is own $40 report and saw it had been totalled. I told him to regard this as tuition. Plenty good dealers out there but also plenty of slimy ones.

I helped a post-doc buy a car recently without a mechanic's report, but the buyer had a recent report from my favorite shop with him.

One thing about my regular dealer -- at least I know he buys them right, and when the new-car dealer where he gets them from steals a car, the benefits trickle down to everyone

cheers -m

steine13 · January 2024

I should add that what with OBD-II diagnostics and some experience, I might be OK buying for myself without a professional inspection. Out of dozens of cars I picked for others over the years, only two were rejected at the shop.

One had piston slap (95 Cavalier with the tractor engine -- a pushrod thing that had a lineage back to International Harvester).

The other was a Forester ten years old or newer that pushed all the buttons, despite fairly high mileage.. it had been a commuter car for someone who worked in Ann Arbor, MI and had a long commute. It was an absolute fright pig underneath from rust. Quite spectacular. So much for "highway miles" -- the ones you do in a salt bath make your car age in dog years.

At any rate, our young academics are not in a position where they can write off a four thousand dollar car or just pay for a $2k transmission repair... they need to get it right in one shot, which is why I insist on the mechanic's report if I'm involved.

cheers -mathias

jmonroe1 · January 2024

oldfarmer50 said:

steine13 said:
Learned Friends:
This is for entertainment only, but it's the slow part of the year and I have time.. Been doing some shopping with colleagues from foreign lands, per the usual cycle of life here.
BTW that green Kia Soul about a dozen posts up turned out to be rat; nasty gunk under the valve cover and not so clean inside.. the twin that I had checked out for a friend was the opposite; clean and running fine without trouble.

That's one reason I like my used cars nice and old ... you only pay for what you get, and you can see what you're getting if you know how to look.

Moving along, there's this 2015 Impreza gem -- 130k, Sport trim, one owner, evidence of maintenance including the important-for-Subis coolant change, and $5,900. One of our guys is buying it if the mechanic's report tomrrow comes back clean. Which it will.

I really liked driving it and could find nothing wrong, beyond a suspension that's a little soft. The nuts on the strut towers were all shiny so I wondered whether the struts had been done but hadn't made it into the carfax. It wasn't nearly as soft as I sometimes find with older cars.

cheers -mathias
You mention mechanic’s report which is a good idea. How do you go about that? Do you check out the car and then call random mechanics to see who can look at it or do you have one in particular you use. Is it tough to schedule an inspection in advance or do you just show up? Also, are dealers always willing to have you take their car for an extended period of time?

————————————————-
Son #1 has bought several cars out of town from the comfort of his home. Once he finds what he wants he tells the salesman that the sale is contingent upon the car passing an inspection by a mechanic of his choosing. My Son says there are plenty of shops that advertise doing this. So far no dealer has refused to allow an inspection and none have failed an inspection for anything more major than needing brakes or tires for which an adjustment in price was made or the dealer made the repair.

He has said if a dealer ever refused to allow for an independent inspection that included at least a 10 mile test drive he wouldn’t buy the car.

Refusing an inspection should be a sure sign that something is fishy.

jmonroe

qbrozen · January 2024

If values are needed, please summarize in one succinct post with the necessary details. This was a lot of long posts with scattered details.

steine13 · January 2024

Here I'm pouring my heart out, and @q says it's scattered...

You're not wrong, though

2015 Subaru Impreza Sport, CVT, 130k miles, burgundy, Cooper tires on alloys, one dent in the edge of the tailgate, otherwise clean and maintained.

..and just to take the temperature, I'm not going to buy it..

2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring, dark gray, 116k, leather, Continentals on alloys, remarkably clean, with power liftgate and sliders. Let's keep it simple and pretend it didn't have a small hit on the carfax.

Thank you very much in advance!

cheers -mathias

qbrozen · January 2024

Right about $6k MMR on the van, assuming not a touring-L nor touring-L anniversary.

Impreza still needs more input. Here are the choices:

steine13 · January 2024

>> Right about $6k MMR on the van

Thanks.
I'm glad to hear these Chrysler vans are not as stratospheric as the Honda/Toyota ones.
I'll be keeping an eye out for a low-mile, clean 5th-generation one... and keep ours in shape as long as we can. I've been reading up on these this afternoon.. some good information out there.

>> Impreza still needs more input.

Ah. These pre-2017 trims stack up differently than what I'm used to for the later ones.

2015 Subaru Impreza 2.0i Sport Premium
VIN: JF1GPAT65F8251418
Style / Body: Wagon 4DEngine: 2.0L H4 SMPI

qbrozen · January 2024

$6600-6700 MMR on the Impreza in average condition.

steine13 · February 2024

2014 Outback Premium in mid-Michigan.
So the usual.. 2.5L, CVT, cloth seats, alloys, that's all I got, haven't seen it yet in the flesh.
This was my wife's update; she drives by there on her commute.

My court-appointed car dealer says
"2014... 136k
Very nice. I'll run carfax
ALL service done at Subaru dealer, frequent oil changes and two major services done.
Very clean, non smoker."

xwesx · February 2024

Looks about as handsome as my rear end. I'd pass.

steine13 · February 2024

Don't you have a Forester?
I ain't buying it but I know ppl with needs.... this is as pretty as an Outback gets. In MI, white is nasty because when the rust sprinkles start you see it ALL.

cheers -mathias

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