Besides the gargantuan size, I have a problem with these $60K + MSRP EVs. In CT we pay property tax yearly on a sliding scale based on a vehicle’s MSRP. Year 1 is the town’s mill rate based on 85% of a vehicle’s original MSRP. It goes down 5% every year. On a $60K + MSRP vehicle that comes to over $900 for the 1st year. Figure at $30 per thousand, over the course of a 3 year lease it would equate to an extra $90 per month.
CT must want everyone riding bicycles. I bet old hoopties are very popular.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I've now read several reviews of the Mercedes-AMG E53, and if I have to go with a PHEV for my next car it would be my first choice. It's about a half second slower than the 2025 M5 (and unfortunately, it weighs just as much), but it's much better looking, the interior is much more driver-centric, and -equipped to my specs- it costs $15k less than the BMW with no options (similarly equipped the price delta increases by $10k). And it does have an EV range of almost 50 miles.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
"General Motors said on Tuesday that its profit in the second quarter fell by more than a third, after President Trump’s tariffs cost the company more than $1 billion...
Mary T. Barra, G.M.’s chief executive, said in a letter to shareholders that the company is investing $4 billion to increase production in the United States of pickups and sport utility vehicles that would be less susceptible to tariffs.
“We are positioning the business for a profitable, long-term future as we adapt to new trade and tax policies, and a rapidly evolving tech landscape,” Ms. Barra said.
Sales of electric vehicles more than doubled, G.M. said, because of new models like a battery-powered version of the Chevrolet Equinox, an S.U.V. that has a starting price of around $35,000. G.M. said it has 16 percent of the electric vehicle market in the United States, second only to Tesla.
At the same time, G.M. is taking advantage of Republican legislation that gutted enforcement of clean air and fuel economy standards. The company said it would invest $900 million to manufacture a new V-8 engine in Tonawanda, N.Y., north of Buffalo. The gasoline-powered engine will be used in large pickups and S.U.V.s."
Speaking of expensive vehicles, I got off 95 yesterday in Greenwich and saw a Silver Mercedes that I couldn’t make out from until I got right behind it at the light. It was an SLR.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I love that car. Just spec'd out one at 107K... little out of my price range!
So if you had the $107K + TTL extra to spend on a new vehicle would this be it?
If I wanted a PHEV? Yes. However, I'd probably end up with a CLE 53 for around $90k, depending on whether I wanted to spend $3.2k on the AMG Performance seats.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Better question is why you came upon this in the first place…
I'd like to say it was a suggested ad that resulted from my phone spying on me, but really, the selling dealer is part of the Wichita car YouTube mafia that some of us follow, or used to.
196k miles on a turbo V12 BMW... What could possibly go wrong?
Well...I would guess it has been well maintained and at great expense. Something this expensive to work on doesn't make it to 200k without being with owners that care. If it was in the wrong hands and something went south, it would have been junked.
I still wouldn't touch it with @breld's money and @qbrozen's mechanical ability!!
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
I’m sure it’s probably in great shape for the mileage - likely someone in medical device sales or similar so mostly highway mileage. But still. Everything will go wrong even just by time.
And @au1994 no misses yet. I’m picking it up Friday on a little roadtrip.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
Saw something in a parking lot on a nice suny day yesterday that made me smile. It was (I guess) a 2nd-gen Miata, the first one with exposed headlights. What made me smile were a few things: it was nicely kept, it was parked with the top down, it was painted a light metallic slightly turquoisey blue, and had a tan interior. Just lovely. I would bet money the driver was a lady.
Ford dealer called, left a VM that they are refunding the overcharge. Gave some excuse about having used full synthetic oil and that the part number was only one letter off from the synblend I had requested. Oh, well, good riddance!
Edit: Since I (apparently) got full synthetic oil, I don't plan to change it at the 12 month mark unless I've put 10k miles on it.
In DC for a few days. Stopped at my cousin’s house who live in MD for dinner. I’ve driven this car before, but my cousin offered for me to go out and take my son for a spin. Even after driving 5 hours from CT, I couldn’t say no. What a machine. 2010 911 C2S Cab 6MT. Carrera White/Blue Interior with a Blue Top. 27K miles. The car is tight as a drum, is very powerful, and just sounds incredible!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Oh, yeah! Didn't notice at all until @nyccarguy pointed it out. Sweet car! Seems like a rather dangerous garage in which to keep such a machine, but, hey, fifteen years and counting....
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
DC is a pretty compact area, mileage wise. Most uber / Lyft rides have been $10-$12 plus a tip. Every time the 4 of us got on the Metro it costs $11.40. Most of the ride share cars have been fairly new (2024/2025). 1st was a Highlander Hybrid Limited. It definitely had more upscale touches than our XLE. Then we were in an RDX ASpec which I thought was an odd choice due to the not so great gas mileage of a 4cyl turbo in a city. We were in a very highly optioned Outback (non-turbo) which seemed to fit 3 across the back nicely, but the front seat seemed to be thickly bolstered and had lumbar support that was uncomfortable. Now I’m in a Corolla Hybrid LE. Seems a bit tight in the back for my wife and 2 kids, but we are only going a short distance.
Still bitten by that Porsche bug. The car had so much power that it started to mi w under its own power by just lifting the clutch up slightly. Maybe 1/8” - 1/4”. The only other car I’ve ever driven like that is my Dad’s ‘66 427 Corvette.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I don’t know how you would make money using a new car for ride share. The depreciation alone would kill your profits. I know some drivers even lease their vehicles but you would go over the mileage limit pretty quick.
The first year my son did Uber/Lyft he put 25,000 miles on his car just doing it part time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Punch! I5 M60 Loaner with 6200 miles. $90k MSRP, $598 Due at signing and $598/month including crazy WA taxes. 36 months/7500 miles a year. Also included free EA charging for 2 years!
Phytonic Blue over Smoke Leather. Bow was my sales guy being funny.
Driving back from Oregon as we speak. Range very impressive so far.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
I began the long process of deciding what, if any, car I may get to replace the Outback today. Decided to start with the Toyota dealer affiliated with both the Mazda dealer where I got the CX-7 and the Subaru dealer where I got the Outback.
I did not know they move more cars per month than any Toyota dealer in the state. The place was crazy busy for an early Friday afternoon.
I had called earlier in the day to ensure that they had a FWD Camry XSE available to drive. They did, so I set up an appointment. Showed up a bit early and had to wait, then was handed off by the original salesperson to someone else. No matter - I was just there to take a test drive. Went through the basic qualifying questions (what's important to you? how long until you're ready to make a decision?), surrendered my license for a photocopy, and we were off.
Dark blue over black - I didn't care about color at this point, just wanted to get a sense of how it drove. Loaded with the premium package, which added ventilated seats and some other niceties; MSRP just under $40K.
Typical 4 right turn test drive in urban traffic. The car rode comfortably, and I didn't notice any issues with the e-CVT (yep, that's what Toyota calls their transmission). The heads up display was nice, and the seat was comfortable. The salesman kept up with a steady stream of patter, which grated on me more than it probably should have.
Back at the showroom, the salesman ran off to "get some numbers", which I also (correctly) assumed I would be meeting a manager. I had them skip the trade appraisal, so the numbers I were given were using the promotional 4.99% APR for various terms and down payments. Fine, OK, no problem.
Looking closer at the prices, I saw over $3000 of "accessories" added to the price - this included paint and fabric protection, a clear bra up front, and one or two other things. With tax and fees, the final price was around $45K. This, on a car that was shown on the website with an almost $2K discount from sticker.
It has been a long, long time since I've done this, and I tried to remain non-plussed by what I was seeing. But, I channeled my dad when he bought the Sonata in 2003 - "dang, cars got expensive" (he paid, I think, $17K before TTL on the Hyundai).
I am in absolutely no rush on this - just getting a feel for what's out there, how they're equipped, how they drive, and what they cost.
Want to test drive both the Accord hybrid (Touring trim) and the Sonata hybrid (Limited trim) in the next few weeks.
Still may consider a hybrid SUV, in which case there are a lot more contenders.
I want a car, but I have not actually shopped since before Covid. And the 3 things that would probably be the biggest issues are the higher prices, dealing with people in showrooms, and of course figuring out what I actually want! I probably need to retire to have enough time to actually get out looking (and more so, wife retired to have time to participate!) Of course, at that point our income will have taken a nosedive which might make it harder to do something.
I have bought 2 cars since Covid but they were the Mavericks, and that I ordered via email without ever seeing one! Though while waiting I did have a chance to test drive one. That was the kind of buying I want to do (all electronic) which is easy enough, but you have to know exactly what you want first, which requires showroom visits.
also, I do like the new Camrys but would lean toward the XLE to get a decent amount of sidewall (I would not be looking for Porsche level handling out of it, so don't need rubber band tires). I doubt though I would be shopping family sedans again.
also, I do like the new Camrys but would lean toward the XLE to get a decent amount of sidewall (I would not be looking for Porsche level handling out of it, so don't need rubber band tires). I doubt though I would be shopping family sedans again.
I didn't look at the tires on the XSE model I drove, but I suspect they were 19's. I'll have to update my comparison spreadsheet with little things like this - and also to include what features and options are available.
Mentally, I'm comparing features to the daughter's Sportage hybrid, which is chock full of them. The Camry did have a nice heads up display, however.
...Looking closer at the prices, I saw over $3000 of "accessories" added to the price - this included paint and fabric protection, a clear bra up front, and one or two other things. With tax and fees, the final price was around $45K...
This was similar to our experience. On paper a Camry optioned out the way we liked had a similar price to an Outback. But real world the difference in price was at least $5k. The Toyota was $3k more than msrp wile the Subaru was $2k less. This was enough to pay the extra annual gas costs for about ten years, which was our time horizon. In any case, my wife really wanted a station wagon anyway, and has gone multiple times to Lowe's with the Outback to get lumber, etc., plus on trips we have more space for luggage.
PS I wonder if a way to get around this would be to custom order a vehicle from the dealer, and just say from the start that no "protection package" is wanted.
Comments
Is that a two tone paint job?
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Besides the gargantuan size, I have a problem with these $60K + MSRP EVs. In CT we pay property tax yearly on a sliding scale based on a vehicle’s MSRP. Year 1 is the town’s mill rate based on 85% of a vehicle’s original MSRP. It goes down 5% every year. On a $60K + MSRP vehicle that comes to over $900 for the 1st year. Figure at $30 per thousand, over the course of a 3 year lease it would equate to an extra $90 per month.
CT must want everyone riding bicycles. I bet old hoopties are very popular.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I love that car. Just spec'd out one at 107K... little out of my price range!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I just can’t conceive of spending that much on a car for normal use. Even if I can justify the expenditure.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mary T. Barra, G.M.’s chief executive, said in a letter to shareholders that the company is investing $4 billion to increase production in the United States of pickups and sport utility vehicles that would be less susceptible to tariffs.
“We are positioning the business for a profitable, long-term future as we adapt to new trade and tax policies, and a rapidly evolving tech landscape,” Ms. Barra said.
Sales of electric vehicles more than doubled, G.M. said, because of new models like a battery-powered version of the Chevrolet Equinox, an S.U.V. that has a starting price of around $35,000. G.M. said it has 16 percent of the electric vehicle market in the United States, second only to Tesla.
At the same time, G.M. is taking advantage of Republican legislation that gutted enforcement of clean air and fuel economy standards. The company said it would invest $900 million to manufacture a new V-8 engine in Tonawanda, N.Y., north of Buffalo. The gasoline-powered engine will be used in large pickups and S.U.V.s."
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/22/business/gm-profit-tariffs-trump.html
So if you had the $107K + TTL extra to spend on a new vehicle would this be it?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Speaking of expensive vehicles, I got off 95 yesterday in Greenwich and saw a Silver Mercedes that I couldn’t make out from until I got right behind it at the light. It was an SLR.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Recently. You just have to buy 40 at a time of course.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
So if you had the $107K + TTL extra to spend on a new vehicle would this be it?
If I wanted a PHEV? Yes. However, I'd probably end up with a CLE 53 for around $90k, depending on whether I wanted to spend $3.2k on the AMG Performance seats.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
So if you had the $107K + TTL extra to spend on a new vehicle would this be it?
If I was buying a sedan it would certainly be in the running...but I'd probably stick with my old man roots and get a Lexus LS
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
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196k miles on a turbo V12 BMW... What could possibly go wrong?
Better question is why you came upon this in the first place…
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Ah. Euroasian Bob?
Feels like $30k for a car with 197k miles is a little dear.
Well...I would guess it has been well maintained and at great expense. Something this expensive to work on doesn't make it to 200k without being with owners that care. If it was in the wrong hands and something went south, it would have been junked.
I still wouldn't touch it with @breld's money and @qbrozen's mechanical ability!!
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
I wonder, is that Hoovie’s friend that he calls urination (EuroAsian) Bob?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That’s an absurd price. I wouldn’t touch it for even 1/3 the price but MMR on that with those miles is $15k.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
(I could use a little less of it, though.)
I’m sure it’s probably in great shape for the mileage - likely someone in medical device sales or similar so mostly highway mileage. But still. Everything will go wrong even just by time.
And @au1994 no misses yet. I’m picking it up Friday on a little roadtrip.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Feels more like it ain’t gonna happen. But, if by chance it does, I want the contact info of that guys brother.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Ford dealer called, left a VM that they are refunding the overcharge. Gave some excuse about having used full synthetic oil and that the part number was only one letter off from the synblend I had requested. Oh, well, good riddance!
Edit: Since I (apparently) got full synthetic oil, I don't plan to change it at the 12 month mark unless I've put 10k miles on it.
In DC for a few days. Stopped at my cousin’s house who live in MD for dinner. I’ve driven this car before, but my cousin offered for me to go out and take my son for a spin. Even after driving 5 hours from CT, I couldn’t say no. What a machine. 2010 911 C2S Cab 6MT. Carrera White/Blue Interior with a Blue Top. 27K miles. The car is tight as a drum, is very powerful, and just sounds incredible!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
There’s a clear bra on the car that goes 1/2 way up the hood and on the front 1/4 panels
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
There’s a clear bra on the car that goes 1/2 way up the hood and on the front 1/4 panels
I can see it, in that last photo.
Enjoy the trip!
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
DC is a pretty compact area, mileage wise. Most uber / Lyft rides have been $10-$12 plus a tip. Every time the 4 of us got on the Metro it costs $11.40. Most of the ride share cars have been fairly new (2024/2025). 1st was a Highlander Hybrid Limited. It definitely had more upscale touches than our XLE. Then we were in an RDX ASpec which I thought was an odd choice due to the not so great gas mileage of a 4cyl turbo in a city. We were in a very highly optioned Outback (non-turbo) which seemed to fit 3 across the back nicely, but the front seat seemed to be thickly bolstered and had lumbar support that was uncomfortable. Now I’m in a Corolla Hybrid LE. Seems a bit tight in the back for my wife and 2 kids, but we are only going a short distance.
Still bitten by that Porsche bug. The car had so much power that it started to mi w under its own power by just lifting the clutch up slightly. Maybe 1/8” - 1/4”. The only other car I’ve ever driven like that is my Dad’s ‘66 427 Corvette.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The first year my son did Uber/Lyft he put 25,000 miles on his car just doing it part time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Punch! I5 M60 Loaner with 6200 miles. $90k MSRP, $598 Due at signing and $598/month including crazy WA taxes. 36 months/7500 miles a year. Also included free EA charging for 2 years!
Phytonic Blue over Smoke Leather. Bow was my sales guy being funny.
Driving back from Oregon as we speak. Range very impressive so far.
Is the Porsche for sale? 😉
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'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
you are moving at a pace lately that would make Breld sit up and take notice!
Assuming this means that the GLI is not coming back?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Absolutely not.
(but, I knew you were thinking about pulling the trigger through our mutual friend)
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I did not know they move more cars per month than any Toyota dealer in the state. The place was crazy busy for an early Friday afternoon.
I had called earlier in the day to ensure that they had a FWD Camry XSE available to drive. They did, so I set up an appointment. Showed up a bit early and had to wait, then was handed off by the original salesperson to someone else. No matter - I was just there to take a test drive. Went through the basic qualifying questions (what's important to you? how long until you're ready to make a decision?), surrendered my license for a photocopy, and we were off.
Dark blue over black - I didn't care about color at this point, just wanted to get a sense of how it drove. Loaded with the premium package, which added ventilated seats and some other niceties; MSRP just under $40K.
Typical 4 right turn test drive in urban traffic. The car rode comfortably, and I didn't notice any issues with the e-CVT (yep, that's what Toyota calls their transmission). The heads up display was nice, and the seat was comfortable. The salesman kept up with a steady stream of patter, which grated on me more than it probably should have.
Back at the showroom, the salesman ran off to "get some numbers", which I also (correctly) assumed I would be meeting a manager. I had them skip the trade appraisal, so the numbers I were given were using the promotional 4.99% APR for various terms and down payments. Fine, OK, no problem.
Looking closer at the prices, I saw over $3000 of "accessories" added to the price - this included paint and fabric protection, a clear bra up front, and one or two other things. With tax and fees, the final price was around $45K. This, on a car that was shown on the website with an almost $2K discount from sticker.
It has been a long, long time since I've done this, and I tried to remain non-plussed by what I was seeing. But, I channeled my dad when he bought the Sonata in 2003 - "dang, cars got expensive" (he paid, I think, $17K before TTL on the Hyundai).
I am in absolutely no rush on this - just getting a feel for what's out there, how they're equipped, how they drive, and what they cost.
Want to test drive both the Accord hybrid (Touring trim) and the Sonata hybrid (Limited trim) in the next few weeks.
Still may consider a hybrid SUV, in which case there are a lot more contenders.
Just wading back into the CCBA pool!
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I have bought 2 cars since Covid but they were the Mavericks, and that I ordered via email without ever seeing one! Though while waiting I did have a chance to test drive one. That was the kind of buying I want to do (all electronic) which is easy enough, but you have to know exactly what you want first, which requires showroom visits.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mentally, I'm comparing features to the daughter's Sportage hybrid, which is chock full of them. The Camry did have a nice heads up display, however.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
PS I wonder if a way to get around this would be to custom order a vehicle from the dealer, and just say from the start that no "protection package" is wanted.