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Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis



  • macarthur2macarthur2 Posts: 135
    Must be lots of school marms to outsell the CV and GM combined huh? Or a lot of people who realize the interior of both cars is identical in measuremnet and you don't need 14" of overhang and 500 lbs more weight which requires a v8 cause no v6 will pull it. Lots of pretty smart high tech loving people around. Seriously if your in the market drive both and do a comparison you might be surprised what you buy if you can make comparisons without bias.
  • golfnut5golfnut5 Posts: 202
    I did do a comparison about two months ago and bought a 2000 GM. The GM is quieter and smoother than the LeSabre with two additional cylinders to boot. The GM is also a much better value. The LeSabre is a good auto, but not a match for the GM or CV.
  • dhmacarthurdhmacarthur Posts: 10
    Figured out the miles per gallon for the last tank full on my 2000 CV, P&H, with just over 1300 miles. It was just under 14 mpg. Not bad when you consider that the car is being broken in, was driven mostly around town, and wasn't driven for economy. I varied the speed as much as possible to help break in the 4.6. Guess the mpg won't get any worse and am sure it will get much better. In about another 300-40 miles will need to add a quart of oil. My father used to say that he was concerned that if a car didn't use ANY oil the engine wasn't getting good lubrication. So far so good. Am very pleased with the car and very glad I found one with the P&H package. Am also happy to have rear wheel drive. all the FWD cars I owned were headaches with replacing constant velocity boots and other problems.
  • airjayairjay Posts: 1
  • mrfmrf Posts: 20
    The Lesabre conference is #2568...maybe you can go over there and help those folks, looks like some of them have some real problems...hint hint nudge nudge...

    For everybody else...2000 GM p/h, purchased 2 months ago, 4250 miles so problems. Averaging 21.5 mpg (80% highway).
  • johnbonojohnbono Posts: 80
    You are much better off by getting a loaded GM over a Town Car. Depreciation on Town Cars is *HORRENDOUS*, and the executive towncar is almost option for option identical to a loaded GM LS. Reliablility for both cars is good, but the town car has more electric doodads which can become a pain in the posterior to fix as the car gets older.
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Posts: 135
    To make you happy I'll leave but want to leave these numbers with you 22mpg in town and 30.1 (at 75mph) highway. Oh yes and 0-60 in 7.9. LeSaber is quicker and more economical. But I'll leave you alone, just want some folks who might be looking to buy know that that do have a #1 best seller for eight consecutive years in the Buick LeSabre.
    Have a nice day, and no hard feelings.---Do you know Saturnboy?
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    are being sold in the NW for $10,000 less than list. Executives are going for $29,995 inc'l leather, but not including Performance and Handling, but air shocks are standard. I read the adds when I drove to BC and found them in the Portland & Seattle areas. Folks from CA should not buy these as they may not pass the CA DEQ test. IMO this makes the Towncar $5,000 more than a loaded GM LS. In 94 I choose the T/C as it had more room in the back for large relatives.
  • jenn10jenn10 Posts: 2
    we're considering buying a '92 MGM LS..VERY low miles (45,000)..seems to be loaded, very clean , was garaged.Any insight or advice on this year/model anyone could give me, would be appreciated. Owner is asking $5600..we're thinking of offering about $5000, due to some kind of brake problem..they're sticky or jerky when you try to use them, otherwise the car is in fabulous condition...thanks from California
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    If it has the factory CD player with JBL Sound, pay the 5600, but if not pay the 5000. If two rotars need to be replaced plus the loaded calipers, it could cost up to $400 to correct the brakes. Does it have new Michelin tires? Has the transmission oil been changed? Collision history? In the begining it was a solid car. Tough to advise w/o seeing and driving it.
  • capecod1capecod1 Posts: 1
    If its a clunking noise from front end going over bumps, try the drag links. They have a ball joint with grease that dries out. They are hard to diagnose-must be tested with wheels on the ground not on a lift.
  • jenn10jenn10 Posts: 2
    No, it's not a clunking noise, just kind of has not been in a crash, nor does it have the CD system, just a cassette stereo, tires are pretty new, does anyone think paying $5000 is too much ?? Thanks
  • auto223auto223 Posts: 4
    Just purchased a 2K CVLX and fear that I should have gotten one with the P & H package. It seems that for the money I should have ordered one with it because my car really needs some tweaking in the "handling" department. Any suggestions on what I can do now as far as aftermarket solutions are concerned? Should I arrange to have one of those "superchips" installed? I use my car for regular purposes but I sure wish I had the P & H package.
    Thanks. Auto223
  • johnbonojohnbono Posts: 80
    The performance and handling package includes the following mods:

    1) dual exhaust
    2) 3.55 rear end
    3)(not sure on this) revised(higher) shift points and redline for the engine
    4)Thicker anti sway bars and load leveling rear suspension (air springs)

    Trying to change the suspension to the air suspension in the P&H package is prohibitively expensive, and requires major work. However, police interceptor springs will work as a substitute. You can also change the anti sway bar to a thicker one for a P&H model easily enough. You can also exhange the standard shocks to a set of bilsteins( has them). This will firm up the ride quite a bit over a standard CV.

    To improve straight line performance, the first thing you should do is switch to dual exhaust(not cheap). That will give you more horsepower than a chip will. However, you would need to change the rear end to a 3.27 or 3.55 to really make a difference(and that I believe is $1200, and I don't think that includes labor) Bottom line, the best way to get a P&H CV is to buy a P&H CV.
  • pnwestpnwest Posts: 1
    I am in the early stages of research on the purchase of either a CVLX or GMLS. What is the benefit of the P&H package. Several dealers have indicated that it will make the ride harsher with the package. I did drive one, but quite frankly in a short test drive it is hard to tell what the benefit is. I am not interested in a sport car ride but by the same token do not want to pass up a package that I should seriously consider. Your help please.......
  • bthompbthomp Posts: 69
    pnwest: You have come up against the typical salesperson. They always want to sell the standard CV on their lots. Their favorite ploy is to say that the P+H ride will be too harsh. My advice (and it sounds like you did it already) is to test drive the P+H over varied pavement. Include speed bumps in shopping malls. Let your backside decide...not some salesperson who wants to move his/her stock.
    The performance and handling package revises the sway bar, spring and shock rates for a firmer ride. That does not mean the ride is jarring. It makes the car corner better by reducing body roll and controls the car at highway speeds better than the standard suspension. The "firmer ride" (still too soft for me) will also decrease your braking distances. The addded 15hp and torque by going to the dual exhaust helps out quite a bit off the line along with the 3.55 rear gear. The air shocks are great. From personal experience, I have loaded my car up with cement bags in the trunk, the springs level the back end so you don't bottom the car out on curbs/bumps. The same for three large adults in the back seat. I have seen snowbirds coming up from Florida in a non P+H GM with three older people in the back, with a full trunk, and the back end just bobs up and down almost hitting the ground. From a safety standpoint the air shocks are worth it. Try them both models. As you can tell from an earlier post, trying to modify a non P+H is prohibitively $$$$$. By buying the package, you get all the goodies to start with. As a side note, FORD only produces the P+H on limited #'s of civilian CV and GM. And they sell relatively fast. When I was shopping for one 2 years ago I got the same "harsh ride" run around.
  • bthompbthomp Posts: 69
    If you sink some money into your 2k CVLX you can build a better P+H. It will require removing the existing exhaust system, installing custom headers, hi flow cat-backs, replacing the standard springs with police interceptor springs all around, get bilstein heavy duty shocks, replace existing sway bars with beefier ones, get a superchip to increase the shift points, take advantage of the easier breathing engine, adjust the timing, install Eagle RS-A, or Firestone Firehawks or other perf. tire. Quite a bit of work. I'm 30 and I find the P+H still too soft. Because of my age, and what I'm used to driving, I have no concept what a luxery ride is supposed to feel like. Is it uncontrollably soft? That is how I would describe the standard CV...but an older person might like that sort of feeling. For a comparison I find the 98 CV P+H less harsh than my old 89 Taurus LX, and yet more controlled.
  • auto223auto223 Posts: 4
    From Auto 223- Did I understand that the 3.55 rear
    end would cause fewer or more engine revolutions at a given hwy speed that the stock cv rear end.
    thanks again.
  • johnbonojohnbono Posts: 80
    I would not worry too much about the ride being more harsh. CVs have a big wheelbase, and that contributes a lot to the smooth ride. The only person whom I have heard complain about the CV's ride being harsh was someone who had a Police Interceptor who also had installed Bilstein shocks. And yes, the p&h is hard to find. I've been looking for a used one and I have found 1 used one after checking about a dozen different ford dealers. It has been frustrating, since I need the p&h package so I can tow a boat with my CV without the porpoising look that the regular cv's get. For dealers in the fairfield county, CT area, nudge, nudge.

    And yes, the 3.55 gearing will rev the engine higher at speed. However, at 70, the engine is on a normal CV is not working very hard at all, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
  • auto223auto223 Posts: 4
    From Auto 223-I greatly appreciate everyone's help with my P & H questions. Because I just spent most of my disposable car money (car 2 wks old) I guess I'll, for now just 1.get the dual exhausts.
    2. install i/springs all around.3 install bilstgeins. and maybe one of those superchips. I just wondered if I had to use higher than 87 Octane fuel with a chip?
  • auto223auto223 Posts: 4
    From Auto 223-I greatly appreciate everyone's help with my P & H questions. Because I just spent most of my disposable car money (car 2 wks old) I guess I'll, for now just 1.get the dual exhausts.
    2. install i/springs all around.3 install bilstgeins. and maybe one of those superchips. I just wondered if I had to use higher than 87 Octane fuel with a chip?
  • HacksawHacksaw Posts: 29
    If it's only 2 weeks old and you didn't put a whole lot of miles on it, it probably didn't lose very much of it's value. I'd try getting the dealer to buy it back for 1-2 thousand less and then order the P&H model from him. If he balks, try another dealer. Explain the situation to him and you might just get lucky.

    I think it's pretty silly to tear apart a brand new car and option it out. If the work isn't done quite right you no longer have a "good as new" car, and some of the mods you are suggesting will void the warranty. If the added P&H is important to you, cut your losses now and get that model.
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    Monroe makes rear air shocks you fill manually. I used them on an 82 Towncar for 12 years and pumped them up to 100 lbs when towing my 17' boat. For normal driving I kept them at 70 lbs. Twining out the exhaust helps with the pickup and Touring type tires also help, but first try putting 35 lbs of air in the tires you have. As you tow a boat, I'd recommend a 10,000 lb transmission cooler be installed. The heavier anti sway bars are worth the cost also.
  • lrestichlrestich Posts: 1
    I currently own a 1986 GM with 197K miles. Awesome car. I have been looking at th 1997 and like it very much. However I am finding it difficult to find one with the options I would like i.e. LS trim with leather seats, handling package, traction control. I have located a 1996. Can someone tell me if there is any definite advantage to the 1997 over the 1996. Thanks, Lee
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    the comprehensive & collision premiums will be lower, sooner. IMO if you like the '96, buy it.
  • white64white64 Posts: 2
    The "check engine" light on my '94 CV-LX with 135,000 miles has started coming on at speeds above 70 MPH. I suspect the oxygen sensor although someone posted that his dealer changed the EGR valve to fix the same symptom.

    - Does anyone have a feel for the life of the oxygen sensor?

    - Does anyone know how to read the computer error codes without taking it to a dealer?
  • I have a 1990 in mint condition that I need to sell. I hate to part with it bec. it is in MINT condition...except that the odomoter just stopped working! Should I fix it before I sell it?
    Am I better off taking a hit for a broken odomoter or should I simply avoid any responsiblity for the car under MA lemon law and say it has 101K miles?
  • bthompbthomp Posts: 69
    If your on-board computer is an EEC-IV you can purchase a $35 tester from track-auto, autozone or walmart. You plug it in and follow the instructions. The booklet gives you an explanation of the codes. Oxygen sensors (usually two of them) can last 100k. When checking out error codes sometimes an EGR can also give similar codes. Both of devices fail over time.
  • Just got a 94 CV. During a hard rain water somehow enters the car and accumulates in the rear passerger's floor. Neither I or the Dealer can find the leak - or replicate it. Any ideas?
  • iusecadiusecad Posts: 287
    even when you go through one of those touch-free high pressure washes? every vehicle I own leaks in one of those...
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