Older Acura TLs

kyfdx · October 2003

Base MSRP of a BMW330i is $35,495 with destination... and nothing else. Nitpicking.. your point is still valid.

regards,
kyfdx

jboucheb · October 2003

"Base MSRP of a BMW330i is $35,495 with destination... and nothing else. Nitpicking.. your point is still valid."

Correct, but I hate RWD. For the 325xi, if I want to get Automatic, Leather, and Navigation, the price goes up to $41,362.00. With only 225HP. Hmmm...

automophile · October 2003

Also - The 3 Series is smaller than the TL. It compares more closely with the TSX that is only $26K. Now the cost advantage of the Acura over the BMW is even more striking.

If you compare the TL with the similar size 5 series, you again find the $15-20K difference. Is it worth it? Consumers reports has removed the 3 Series from their Recommended list, reliability has been steadily dropping. Is the 5 to follow?

billyperks · October 2003

The Bimmer 325 has only 184 horses.

varmint · October 2003

Well, I didn't mean to get into a dollar for dollar comparison, but all points are well taken.

With respect to the TL, I just think they priced it well within reason. If the interior hadn't been upgraded and additional features added, I'd say that $33K is too much for the car. But the TL and TSX interiors are definately a step up from previous Acura products.

There's no smoking gun in this new package, but the sum of the parts is pretty good. The interior materials are much better, the exterior stands out better, the interior is more striking, and basic performance is much better.

One of the things I'm most pleased to see is the HPT and 6 speed options. I'm a fan of the old TL-S, but - let's face it - an auto gearbox is not proper sporting equipment. And I expect that, like all honda gearboxes, this will be a beauty. Even though many will still opt for the automatic, the existence of an HPT package, brembo brakes, LSD, and 6 speed give the TL some credibility as the sports sedan Acura Market Reps want us to see.

szellers · October 2003

ztiger93, I test drove the new TL at both Courtesy Acura in Sanford and Fountain Acura in Orlando. I would highly recommend Fountain over Courtesy, they were much more professional, not high pressure at all. The guys at Courtesy were more your typical saleman, full of themselves! I dealt with the Internet guy at Fountain, and found him to be very professional, not pushy, and easy to work with. I would highly recommend Fountain.

cooldad24 · October 2003

I think you just represent your favor not everyone. For some people they want a premium brand car with find interior, refine manner and smooth quiet ride, nothing will beat Lexus. And ES330 is designed based on this concept. Actually the 2004 the ES330 not only gain bigger Engine for more power, but stiffer suspension as well. Although it is not sporty but never be floaty like tranditional american large car. ES330 has side air curtain, side air bag and VSC since 2001 model when redeign. And Acura just catch up on the 2004 model. Plus the braking distance is so so on the TL with AT compared to excellent on ES330. For some who consider safety as high priority will take ES330 just for these additional safety features. Not everyone want a sporty sedan. True, ES330 won't be cheaper if equipped on the same level as new TL, but the resale value before 2004 model is better than TL. They sold more but demand is high. Acura first try on this market with Legend, a sporty spirit sedan. The result is Lexus has more success in the late 80 and early 90. For my wilfe, she prefer Lexus over Acura because image, refinement and interior materials. I like to drive and favor Acura over Lexus except the LS430. They are for different buyers and different need. You can't deny ES330 has the best materials in their league. You also criticize the ES330 is luxury Camry while don't forget it's the same that the TL is fancier version of Accord. You got to be fair and I think both are worthy to consider at the price range. The decision should be based on your priority and preference not who say so. Review is someone's opinion not yours. Test drive both and mark what you like and what you don't like. Set your own priority in price, features, drive, safety, daily usage, depreciation and availability. I don't mean to debate with you but just point out each has its strength and personality.

jboucheb · October 2003

"Correct, but I hate RWD. For the 325xi, if I want to get Automatic, Leather..."

Just to be accurate, I meant to say 330xi. Sorry.

bigbluu · October 2003

okay...here's the scoop. i picked up my new tl on sunday (abyss blue/quartz) and have been driving it to work since. if you want a pure luxo, buy the es. but if you want modern luxo w/ sportiness, get the tl. i guarantee you all es owners will be eating tl owners' dust...on the streets, on the freeways, on the back country roads...you name it. the tl's interior is a more modern luxo look, with the carbon fiber and aluminum (real stuff - will not rub off, not like infiniti's painted plastic crap). i do agree that the wood & aluminum clash - that's why i got the quartz interior. the voice activated navi - no other make comes even close to the tl. the sound system - still no verdict on it yet. i just ordered some dvd-a discs to test. the demo disc isn't that great. other than that, i'm loving the ride. can't wait until after the break-in period to really let it rip. let me know if you have any specific questions about it.

jchan2 · October 2003

Do you think that is worth the extra $$$$$ over the TSX, or even the I35? Because the TSX and I35 look like huge bargains to me. (I35 doesn't sell well around here, and the TSX, well you know) Because my dilemma now is which one I should get:
Lexus ES330 (crossed-off)
Infiniti I35 (BIG BARGAIN!!!)
Infiniti G35 (hmmm....)
Acura TL (that's why I'm here!!)
Acura TSX (good value)

bodble2 · October 2003

This will seem like a nitpicky issue, but have they repositioned the flashing security LED so that it tilts more towards the passenger side? And, as a result,is it now more easily visible from either side of the car?

uncledavid · October 2003

I believe the TL is a better value overall. For six thousand more dollars, you get a lot more features, a much more powerful engine, (probably) a slightly better ride, and a larger vehicle overall. If I were to buy a new car today, I'm not sure which of the two I'd buy. I'd definitely be tempted by the TL, even though I love my TSX.

The only aspect of the TSX I prefer to the TL is looks. The TSX looks a tad "cleaner" to me, and a bit more sporty. But, that is purely my own opinion.

b4z · October 2003

You left out the Cadillac CTS.
34K will get you a base car with auto and the sport package, which consists of 17" wheels, stabilitrak, performance brake linings, sport suspension, self leveling supension, higher effort steering, etc.
3.6L VVT engine with 255 hp.
0-60 is about 6.7 secs.

bigbluu · October 2003

yes, i think it's worth the money, even though i paid sticker to get it now. i can't wait because i've got a little one coming along next month. that's another reason why a got the tl over the tsx - more interior room. i think that will be the major factor b/t the tl and tsx. if you can wait until prices settle a little, it will be no contest as to which one is the better value (vs tsx and othe competition). i35 - i don't no much about it, but i don't think it's in the same league as the tl. g35 - great raw power, but i'm not thrilled w/ interior materials and looks. tl should be able to hang w/ it easily.

bodble2 - not sure which you're referring to, but the security light for the stereo is in the bottom left area of the center stack. and the vehicle security lights are right next to each front door's pop-up locks.

uncledavid · October 2003

you'll still pay $5,000 to $6,000 more for the TL. I think it is worth it. Others might not.

varmint · October 2003

b4z - I left out a bunch of cars. It was not intended as the end all be all of automotive comparisons. I was simply taking two players well known for being the best in a single category (Lexus = interior luxury and BMW = performance) and contrasting them with the TL. The point was that all three have their compromises and fall around the same price point.

bodble2 · October 2003

I was referring to the flashing light next to the front door pop-up lock. But I didn't know there are 2 of them! In the current TL/CL, only the driver door has one. But from the photos, it looks like the light is positioned in a slant so that it appears it can be easier seen on the opposite side of the car.

muspod · October 2003

If you want a four door sports car, a car with some torque, rear wheel drive, and all the rest of todays modern conviences, Get the G35. If you want some flashy curvy dashbord, led lights, and econobox handling, get the TL.

bodble2 · October 2003

automophile · October 2003

The I35 IS a bargain. It is not a bad car at all, but it is VERY old technology. For example, it is the only car in it's class with with a solid rear axle instead of independent rear suspension. Read Edmunds' review and Infiniti forums. You won't go wrong with one, but it is not very exciting. Since Infiniti brought out the excellent G35, they can barely GIVE the I35s away.

The TL seems to be much more sophisticated than the G35, the looks are better and the seating is better, IMO. The vertical headlights are just too reminiscent of the 70's cars.

retaler · October 2003

In trying to make a decision on what to buy, I drove the ES330. I nearly got us killed when I fell asleep behind the wheel. To say the technology is old, the power non- existent, and the styling is a big yawn, is a gross understatement. It was smooth. But WOW I did enjoy the TL. By the way if it snows where you live lots of luck with rear wheel drive (G35).

muspod · October 2003

The G runs great in the snow. (VDC) I had an V6Accord with low profile tires and it was horrible in the snow. I think you'll find the TL won't be all that great either. Especially with a bum tranny!

sorter · October 2003

The TL is vehicle that try to prove itself. performance wise, it is not yet a BMWs or a G35, luxury wise, it is not yet a Lexus or C, prestige wise, acura as a brand is really just infiniti kind of 2nd tier, so it is wiser to value the car where they were, at $28,000 with all options except the NAV. By moving the car up-scale while ES at the same time up its engine HP and lower the price by about $1500, you will find a below invoice TL within 4 to 6 months.
Consider the big group of people who want to spend $28k to $32K, that is a large group of people that would not be able to buy a TL but will be able to get a base ES with leather seat and sunroof.
TL couldn't sell in 98, so they drop the price for thousands for the last generation of 3.2. Now I think honda is risking their market share just like the DCX did with the pacifica.

jboucheb · October 2003

"You left out the Cadillac CTS.
34K will get you a base car with auto and the sport package, which consists of 17" wheels, stabilitrak, performance brake linings, sport suspension, self leveling supension, higher effort steering, etc.
3.6L VVT engine with 255 hp.
0-60 is about 6.7 secs."

Hmmm...not bad at all. I just spec'ed it out on Edmunds:

2004 Cadillac CTS 4dr Sedan (3.2L 6cyl 5M)
MSRP Invoice National Base Price
$30,140 $27,880 $29,348
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code -- -- $51
Optional Equipment $3,550 $3,018 $3,375
UAV DVD Navigation, Bose 6-Disc In-Dash CD Changer and XM Satellite Radio info $1,750 $1,488 $1,664
LY7 3.6L V6 VVT Engine w/5-Speed Automatic Transmission info $1,700 $1,445 $1,616
QWW P255/50R17 W-Rated All-Season Tires info $100 $85 $95
Color Adjustment
White Diamond -- -- -$18
Destination Charge $695 $695 $695
Total $34,385 $31,593 $33,451
Incentives Available

$33,451 not bad at all. SO, can someone *please* tell me, besides being a RWD vehicle (and lower HP), what's wrong with the CTS??? Sounds like a good competitor, no? Am I missing something here?

jiminthehills · October 2003

Anyone bought the 6 speed TL?

I'm curious what the sticker says about MPG & what actual milage you're getting.

I've seen reported 19/28 MPG and also 19/30.

muspod · October 2003

The CTS is a great car...on paper. Drives good, but there is a just something missing. Interior and exterior styling is , well, looks unfinished to me. Personal preference. With all of GM's incentives, it may the low price leader of the bunch.

dulnev · October 2003

Hey, ash, no need to be rude! I don't remember if they were separate or not, but my 2000 TL had tweeters somewhere on the top side of the dash.

bigbluu · October 2003

my bad...just double-checked. there's only one security light on the driver side. none on the passenger. and yes', it's visible outside from both sides.

tl below invoice in 4-6 months...keep dreaming...

merc1 · October 2003

A Mitsu Eclipse. I didn't find anything wrong with the stereo in the new TL, but I guess I was expecting it to knock me out.

M

kahunah · October 2003

Acura has sold more TLs than any of their other product lines combined which doesn't explain your logic. When the professional reviews about the 04 TL come out in the weeks to come, you'll be eating your words. The new TL is totally redesigned and reengineered and cannot be compared with any previous models, including Accord. You cannot draw conclusions about a car you haven't even test driven and thoroughly inspected. Do your homework first!

Also, no one is doubting that the G35 is a very good car...but it's not perfect. Here's what Consumer Reports had to say about the G35:

"This rear-drive model is a pleasant car, but has some drawbacks. The G35 draws abundant power from its strong 3.5-liter, 260-hp V6 and exceptionally smooth automatic. Routine handling is agile, but when pressed the tail can slide out unexpectedly--even with stability control. Expect a well-controlled ride and nicely suppressed noise levels. The front seats are comfortable, but a bit short on thigh support for tall drivers, and the power-seat controls are poorly marked and confusing to use..."

tturedraider · October 2003

I know some of you will think I'm a little crazy, but....taking into account that I'm a big Infiniti(Nissan) fan and a big I35 fan, I was thinking about some of the questions posted here about it v. the new TL. My mom has an I35 and I really do enjoy driving it. The power is great and I like the styling, personally. All that to say, if I was buying right now I'd give some serious thought to taking the great deal on the I35 right now; drive it for three years and then go for the TL after all the hoopla has worn off and after Acura (probably) ads some more little goodies to the TL. What say y'all?

merc1 · October 2003

More goodies like what? The new TL *seems* pretty complete to me. My wish would be for real wood and a more tasteful use of real aluminum.

M

tturedraider · October 2003

yeah, stuff like that. little tweaks along the way. maybe more refinements to the powertrain. offering quartz leather with the green exterior....etc

torontotl · October 2003

The aluminum trim in the 2004 TL is the real thing. Now it would be nice if the wood was real, but from what I've heard and read it does looks pretty darn good.

The 2nd generation TL does not have tweeters in the dash. I have a 2000 TL and it does not have tweeters, unlike my 1994 Accord which did have tweeters.

merc1 · October 2003

If the almuimum in the TL is real they surely went though a lot of trouble to make it feel fake.

M

fdefulvio · October 2003

The '04 CTS with auto trans actually has a better engine with more power. The manual continues to use last years engine. They have also made some changes to the interior, but I'm still not impressed with the look. I do like the exterior though.

b4z · October 2003

You left out the PDX Sport Package which completely changes the feel of the car.
It is $1875.

TL would be the only FWD sporty sedan that i would consider.

My last two GM FWD vehicles have been very unsatisfactory with their "clip clop" suspensions.

maldorf · October 2003

Considering the experience I have had with honda owning the 2 TL's we have owned( 99' turned in recently off lease and a 03) I will never buy another honda product again. My 99's tranny went out at just a bit over 30k miles on it and they put in a rebuilt transmission that took them over 1 month to do so. All the while repairs were being done, keep in mind this is a lease, I had to drive a ford focus while paying my lease. I was very excited to turn it in a few months ago and get rid of it. Why did I buy an 03 knowing about the problems? Well I thought it was a fluke, but it was not. Many thousands of people had the same experience as me. The transmission has definite flaws in it.shirley17 "2 New Transmissions for my 2001 Acura TL - Help" Aug 11, 2003 10:58am. This link shows you what others have found. There is currently a law suit underway over the issue, and honda had offered an extended warranty on the transmissions of certain model years only, but considering the broken down transmissions were being replaced with the same design (rebuilt too) they often broke down again. Some people have been through 3 transmissions.
Just yesterday honda sent me a notice that they had graciously extended the warranty on the transmission of my 99 TL which I turned in after lease was done. I actually left it sitting in my garage for the last month, after I bought our new car, afraid to drive it because it was out of warranty and the tranny may break down at any moment. For now, the tranny in my 03 TL is not covered by an extended warranty as they claim they fixed the problem, but the transmissions on the 03's continue to break down. As the cars age another year or so more and more will show up in the repair shops of your local Acura dealer.
The 04 is a new design, but I doubt the transmission is totally revamped. They have been using that transmission for awhile now -even in mini vans. I would never risk buying the first model year of a car. Wait a year or so and see what problems show up.

eandylee · October 2003

I'm all for it...

muspod · October 2003

If everyone read consumer reports they would be driving an Accord or a Camry. Read what CR has to say about the TL. Also read the crash reports on the G35. This new TL is the same as old with a TSX skin, a tweak in the motor, and a fancy radio. And yes, I have inspected and driven it. Hohumm..

dimaria · October 2003

Found this article on USA Today, today. This is the second article that I have read indicating that Acura is losing sales.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-10-08-acura_x.htm

Apparently Acura is not doing as well as they would like you to believe. I think that the 2004 TL is priced way to high. Like someone else said in this forum the 97's listed in the 32K - 34K range and no one would buy them. Then they reduced the price with the 99 to 29K - 31K and they started to sell. So I think the Acura dealers should get down from their high horse and start selling these cars with discounts not adjusted market values and add on's. I to will wait until I can get one for 1,000 - 1,500 off MSRP. I guess they didn't learn anything from their past expierences.

bodble2 · October 2003

If the TL is too high, then Maxima, G35, ES330 all need to reduce too.
And we're not even talking about the Euro competitors such as the A4/A6, 3 & 5-series, S60, etc.

dulnev · October 2003

Your comparison of 2004 TL pricing to 1999 one makes no sense because you are comparing apples to oranges. Acura is moving TL upmarket with the introduction of 2004 model so it would be like comparing a 1995 VW Passat with 2003 one.

uncledavid · October 2003

through most of the Spring. So, I'm not sure what that article is talking about. Acura might have "fallen" to number 5 last year, but sales are way up this year. Also, "the fall" to number 5 can be easily explained by the reality that there are more competitive upscale brands then there were in 1990. Since 1990, Lexus has emerged as a prestige premium brands, Audi and Saab are back on the map, and a fewer lower-level competitors (like VW) have moved upscale. Its a more competitive buisness these days.

The TSX is one of the hottest selling cars in America right now (in terms of average time spent on dealer's lot before being sold, not total sales). The MDX is a hot seller too, and I'm confident the TL will be a success too.

igorvodov · October 2003

I own a 2002 3.2 TL and recently I have noticed
that when I put my car into P after driving for about 4-5 minutes, the engine revs up and down on its own. Has anyone experienced something similar?

Thanks.

bodble2 · October 2003

I've never drive a base TL, but I find the current Type-S a touch harsh over bumpy roads. If anyone has driven the new TL as well as both versions of the old TL, how would the ride of the new TL rate? Similar to the current base TL, or in-between base and Type-S?

varmint · October 2003

Acura isn't hurting. This sales fluctuation is somewhat normal. When a vehicle is brand new, sales are hot. At the end of that vehicle's run, sales slow down. To combat this fluxuation, brands stagger the release of their volume sellers. That way when one car is getting old, another is the hot new item on the market.

Acura has had only three volume sellers in recent years. The TL, Integra, and MDX. Right now, the TL is long in the tooth. It's only natural that sales are down. The Integra was a volume seller, but not a great profit maker. It's been replaced with the RSX, a car that makes more money per unit. Sales volume is traded for higher profits. The MDX is the only volume car that is going strong. As sales of that model cool over the next two years, the company will get a boost from the new TL and RL.

Next year - when TL sales are up, the RL is launched, and the next NSX is being shown - people will be saying, "wow, look at Acura go!". It's the normal flow of things.

jchan2 · October 2003

here's what I need from a car at this price range:

good value (advantage: I35, TL, TSX)
big cabin: (advantage: I35, ES330)
low Out-the-door-price: (advantage: I35)
Features: (advantage: TL)
So, to conclude, I need a car with a high-value content, roomy interior, low out-the-door price, and a decent amount of features. Based above, the I35 and TL are down to the wire. Here's my reasoning:
If the Acura dealer doesn't cooperate on price, then I'll head down to the Infiniti dealer. (right down the road)
I really like both the TL and the I35. (the TL a little more so) but is the TL worth the extra $$$$$$? Both would suit me just fine. (commuting) Maybe a small road-trip or 2, but no more than going to work and soccer games and running errands and all that other daily stuff. I may be buying in April- I'll see how much time moving will take and whether I will be able to snag a TL for $2250 under sticker or an I35 for $3000 under invoice. (or any number below invoice that is greater than $250)It'll depend on how long the I35s are sitting on my dealer's lots and how long the TLs are sitting there.

bodble2 · October 2003

The I35 is effectively a discontinued model. It's the last generation Maxima in disguise. I'm not sure if I would buy it even if it were priced the same as an Accord. It's almost like buying a used car. Beam suspension, 4-speed auto. No thanks. Only positive is that the interior looks nicer than the one in the G35.

I like the TL so I will buy the TL. Period. I'll try to get the best price. If that turns out to be full sticker, so be it. I won't go to a "second choice" just because the dealers don't want to play ball --- I might do this if I'm buying a refrigerator, a washing machine, or some other appliance.

ruski · October 2003

That article complains that G35 tends to slide its tail out when pressed too hard. But isn't it what the *enthousiasts* look for? Isn't it why they press the car too hard in the first place - to kick the tail out a bit?

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